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 creme_ofthecrop
Joined: 3/9/2011
Msg: 1
stereotypes..so what if?Page 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
i know there are stereotypes and most of them are baseless , usually passed down from not too clever upbringing an acceptance...

but what about the stereotypes people actually walk into but are upset after it takes flight? case in points?

a chick comes out looking half naked but expects to be taken seriously and treated like a provervial "lady" when her first impression simply screms"how much for a blow job"

or, african american speaking like morons or better yet walking to places like where i manage at asking for a job, with no command of english and thier boxers visibly displayed, BUT expect the reason they arent getting call backs is because it is a personal vendetta...what are your thought on percieved and actual stereotypes people kinda walk into from thier daily appearances or mannerisms?
 Molly Maude
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 2
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/15/2011 11:33:30 AM
I think that lazy people "buy into" stereotypical thinking because it's easier and it usually involves putting strangers into convenient boxes without spending time evaluating each and every person individually ...

sadly ... then there usually ARE examples of behaviour that fits right into the stereotype! even tho these may be the exceptions rather than the usual ... these examples reinforce stereotypical beliefs!

how many times I've heard friends say that they have a friend who isn't the typical ... whatever ... fill in the blanks ... because, once you get to know someone from that convenient box, you realize they never really fit in there to begin with ... as many don't ...

my bbf years ago was Japanese and used to tell me FUNNY, FUNNY stereotypical things about the behaviours of other peoples from countries neighboring Japan ... things I'd never heard of here ... we used to laugh about these things so much ... it was a bond ...

as for people who speak "like morons" as you stated who obviously could speak more correctly in "normal" English ... one of my granddaughters has an entirely different mode of speaking when she's with her "homies" than when she's with me ... it annoys me but she says it's a bonding teen-aged thing that I just don't understand ... I tell her that it makes her look less than intelligent ... but ... it's a bonding thing ...

shrug ... ok ... I guess ... ...
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 3
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/15/2011 12:48:49 PM
A very dear gentleman friend of mine looks and sounds like he's a gang member... I often joke with him about being connected. From the very first time I met him, he's treated me with nothing but the utmost respect and he extends that to my family and friends.

Stereotypes don't phase me in the least, I prefer to evaluate people on an individual basis.
 Worbug
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 4
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/15/2011 3:23:09 PM
Don't fall for the entrapment.

I foresee a lot of canned responses walking on egg shells declaring the almighty shout "I Do not Stereotype, I get to know the person" and we all know that is bull. Everyone stereotypes to some degree on a host of things. i.e Race, Education, Social Status, Income level, etc. I will agree, some people do perpetuate some stereotypes. He!!, you even see other people trying to embrace the stereotypes of other people now as it is supposed to be the thing to be this or that. or as an excuse for their short commings.

I have seen this conversation too many times and they never end nice. I see this thread topic as bait.
 scurvy_little_spider
Joined: 11/7/2011
Msg: 5
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/15/2011 4:31:57 PM
I know that I am hard-headed - but - I'm having great difficulty conceiving of any person who has nothing about his/her appearance which couldn't be seized upon by observers and designated into a stereotype... so where are you going with this?

I have a young friend who chooses to adorn in spiked hair, leather jackets, etc., in a town of overalls. I kind of admire that it doesn't even occur to him to try to blend, although it causes him no end of problems from lack of job offers right on through offers to kick his butt. But he won't leave Farmsville because his family is there.

Myself, I get annoyed, but I don't intend to change my uniform, either -- I'm frequently mistaken for a church lady until it's too late (the fangs have already broken the skin.)
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 6
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/16/2011 11:04:26 AM
funny how people readily accept positive stereotypes but dismisss negative ones...
 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 7
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/16/2011 11:20:33 AM
cremeofthecrop,
I don't think they are very bright people or they are young and inexperienced. You should tell these kids who apply for a job what their attire implies. But tell them in a kind way so they can learn from the experience. Some really don't know.

Kids I figure are learning how to navigate in the world, but someone over 21 who dresses in an anti-social style is declaring they have some personal problems IMO.

And your other example of women(men do it too) being too sexy in pof profiles, most likely have some issues. Healthy people are going to avoid them. A little sexy is ok, alot sexy seems inappropriate for pof.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 8
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/16/2011 12:01:19 PM
Sometimes I think the kind of thing the OP's talking about is the result of just plain ignorance. Most of us can think of some embarrassingly clueless things we did when we were younger and dumber. We all live and learn.

I'm sure someone the person respected--a big brother, big sister, good friend, parent, or the equivalent--could often wise them up with a few minutes of very frank talk about how the world works. It will probably sting at the time, but you'll probably be thankful for it later--after you've thought about what they said and that little light's gone on in your head.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 9
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/16/2011 7:05:29 PM
I think that lazy people "buy into" stereotypical thinking


I agree.

I also think that lazy people box themselves into fitting into a stereotype quite easily also. Some stereotypes arnt even bad; but to judge all based on a sterotype...is just plain dumb.

I can BE the steroetypical middle class white bore; OR the rock n rolling dirty white boy car guy EASILY....but to let myself get boxed INTO the limitations of those stereotypes.....no way.
 GameBredPitBull
Joined: 2/28/2011
Msg: 10
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/19/2011 10:08:33 PM
Because of my heritage people think i'm either a mafioso or guido

because the mafia films(i love them all XD) people think we talk like robert deniro or joe pesci

and even worse because of MTV if your Italian you must be orange on steroids and have your hair blown out....to me jersey shore are not italians.
 SoBayNative
Joined: 10/30/2011
Msg: 11
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 7:13:24 AM
I think you answered your own question. These are individuals whose characteristics are being extended to their entire group. How about Condolezza Rice, maybe that means all black women are well-educated, cold, high-achievers. Oh, wait, we've all known those that weren't so I guess we can't make huge generalizations based on a small sampling of people.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 12
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 7:43:14 AM
Sure, there are those that fit into stereotypes.......that is why the word exists.
But any intelligent person knows you can't judge a book by its cover.......whether that cover is flashy or plain.

I was once written up at my job because of a comment I made.
A car had pulled into the parking lot and 13 people crawled out of it.......and I said
"Goodness, how many of 'em are going to crawl out of there!"
They happened to be Hispanic.......which I wasn't even paying attention to.(It was winter and they were all bundled up and you honestly had to really look at their faces to notice their ethnicity.
I was accused of "stereotyping and being racist".......
when in fact.........I felt the person that complained was doing the stereotyping by relating how many there were to being Hispanic.
I won my case because they could not prove I was referring to Hispanics......and I could prove they were!
and yes, the person that complained was Hispanic.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 13
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 8:04:24 AM

but what about the stereotypes people actually walk into but are upset after it takes flight? case in points?


Ah, the half-naked woman--she is just a bit confused, and part of it is due to her own, um, let's call it "ignorance," and partly due to culture. We are a culture saturated with explicit and implicit sexual messages. A woman is "told" that she must be sexy; we see this in the media consistently. Yet she must also be chaste and not "loose." This creates a conundrum. If she dresses in a burka, she will be considered unattractive; yet if she dresses provocatively, she will be considered loose. So, how she expects a man to perceive her is contradictory to the style of dress.

She and the African-American who speaks and dresses poorly are "guilty" of one similar aspect: they both think that people should get to know them before judging them. The woman feels that the man should read her mind and know that even if she dresses provocatively, she isn't there for the taking (even if she is); the job seeker feels that if the manager would just give him a chance (overlooking the speech and dress), the manager would find that he is a hard worker, smart, and comes to work on time.

By the way, I see quite a few Caucasians who dress the way that you describe and who have no concept of how to put a spoken sentence together.


I think that lazy people "buy into" stereotypical thinking because it's easier and it usually involves putting strangers into convenient boxes without spending time evaluating each and every person individually ...


While some laziness can "cause" stereotyping, I think it goes deeper than that. Many people buy into stereotypes because they blindly cling to tradition, buying into whatever they learned as children from their family and the sub-culture in which they are raised.

I have met racist, sexist and other types of "ist" people who validate their cherished stereotypes based upon one or two incidences in their personal experience. The racist meets ONE black person who "speaks like a moron" and that is enough "proof" that the stereotype is valid. Or, on the flip side, the person who thinks that all Asians are geniuses meet two Asians who are very intelligent--they fit the preconceived notion.


I foresee a lot of canned responses walking on egg shells declaring the almighty shout "I Do not Stereotype, I get to know the person" and we all know that is bull. Everyone stereotypes to some degree on a host of things.


I agree—but some of us move past the stereotypes. As an instructor, if I stick to common stereotypes and judge my students by them, I would be doing them a vast disservice. I have seen flighty blondes write thoughtful, perceptive essays; I have seen the prodigious reader who wears glasses not be able to connect sentences. I had a rough looking and rough sounding paroled convict as a student whose first essay was extremely good; I really thought that he had plagiarized it and spend about half an hour trying to find evidence or proof but could find none. The second essay was also excellent. When I had a conference with him (I conference with all my students, he was not singled out), I told him that I had thought his papers were plagiarized. He was HIGHLY offended. I asked him where he had learned to write so well. He replied, “In solitary confinement.”
Alas, I later learned he went back to prison.

One more thing . . . I post in the Science and Philosophy forum; I notice that I often get more flak from male posters who disagree with me than do the male posters who reiterate or support what I say. The opposing male posters often couch their words and approach differently with the male posters. I wonder if this is because I am a female busting their derrieres as opposed to a male who does the same?
 StraylightRunn
Joined: 11/1/2011
Msg: 14
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 9:56:18 AM

think that lazy people "buy into" stereotypical thinking because it's easier and it usually involves putting strangers into convenient boxes without spending time evaluating each and every person individually ...


So you don't believe anyone EVER fits a stereotype? Perhaps it's lazier to judge an a case by case basis vs stereotyping. Because when stereotyping you have to make a decisive judgement on the person as a whole instead of the idea that "What you see is what you get."

I don't believe all people are so congruent socially that they are able to avoid stereotypical behavior in some fashion somewhere in a list of social scenarios. In fact some people my project a stereotypical behavior just to fit in with a certain group of people. Perhaps an "African-American" talks like a "gangsta" and wears his pants down to his ankles because the group in his area acts that way and that's the way he'll be accepted or the hot blonde with huge fake tits and botox shots demands to be taken seriously while not being able to form coherent thoughts because she likes the attention.

However I judge a person on their character cause I'm a rational classy person. Give me a break. It's kind of irrational to expect to be this rational all the time. Just because someone doesn't openly say "Oh she's just a ditzy blonde." Doesn't mean they don't think it.

 Dreamer_in_SC
Joined: 6/13/2011
Msg: 15
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 10:14:42 AM

i know there are stereotypes and most of them are baseless , usually passed down from not too clever upbringing an acceptance...

but what about the stereotypes people actually walk into but are upset after it takes flight? case in points?

a chick comes out looking half naked but expects to be taken seriously and treated like a provervial "lady" when her first impression simply screms"how much for a blow job"

or, african american speaking like morons or better yet walking to places like where i manage at asking for a job, with no command of english and thier boxers visibly displayed, BUT expect the reason they arent getting call backs is because it is a personal vendetta...what are your thought on percieved and actual stereotypes people kinda walk into from thier daily appearances or mannerisms?


I have seen similar situations myself. Like a guy complaining that nobody will listen to him or consider that he could be leadership material. At first glance he is wearing pants big enough to fit 2 people in them, hanging down mid thigh with his underwear showing.

I watched a video on some show where some guy was attempting to convince people that it was an expression and artistic to wear your clothes that way. He was complaining that people would not give him the time of day when dressed that way but in a suit he was admired as a person.

It is attention seeking. For many people receiving negative attention is better than no attention at all. I used to work with kids at a residential care facility. Many were inner city youth.

Things like the blonde stereotype or the thug wearing their pants hung low, are often time done as an attempt to fit into the stereotypes.

To fit in, in some areas, or to stand out in other areas. Both fitting in and standing out are valid reasons for why people do the things that they do.

Like the example given about the spiked hair kid in an area that everyone else is wearing the outfit that would identify them as a farmer.

Nobody would make the mistake of identifying that spiked hair kid as a farmer. That is likely why he does it.

These may be my opinions but my thought is for something to be considered a stereotype means it is widely known about as being associated with a specific social list of attributes.

When someone attempts to conform to those attribute lists it DOES mean that they are attempting to reflect on the outside of them the way they feel on the inside.

When it comes to stereotypes that you are reflecting, you either fit them or break away from their normal.

Like the Hispanic stereotype mentioned. If you are packing 15 people in a Toyota corolla and then getting upset that someone would be stereotyping you, then it is you that is a fool. It also means you are breaking safety laws which should be more important than weather or not someones feelings got hurt.

I saw this once myself. I saw a hispanic family with 2 adults and 6 kids get out of a Toyota corolla and i remembered thinking that they were hispanic before ever seeing their faces because the car was riding low and blasting salsa music prior to them getting out of it.

For a split second i did feel guilty for applying a stereotype onto them but then i realized that it was not me or my own mind that applied that stereotype. It was THEM that did it. That is also the case with MANY people that fit stereotypes. They are the ones controlling how people apply stereotypes to themselves.

The reason why is because They chose to drive a lowered Toyota corolla even though they had 6 children. They could have selected a van to drive and nobody would have batted an eye if they saw them get out of that van.

It is because it is normal to see 8 people getting out of a van. It is NOT normal to see 8 people getting out of a car designed for 4 people.

I no longer feel guilt when i discover my mind applying stereotypes because I accepted that fact that IF i do apply a stereotype to a person or group then that means either that group or person wanted to associate and convey that stereotype or they are immersed within that segment of society where those stereotypes stem from.

Bottom line... It is my opinion that most stereotypes are about choice. You choose to be seen a specific way. Do not be a fool to then be shocked when someone applies a stereotype to you based on what is seen and conveyed in outward appearance.

Just my opinions. Sorry for the long post
 TooShadows
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 16
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 10:15:31 AM
A lot of stereotypes are unfortunate and undeserved,but unfortunately there are always those who fit into the stereotype perfectly,and as the saying goes: it only takes one.

We've always heard about those of the Jewish faith being cheap,sneaky and underhanded. Most I've met have been anything but. However I've known one man who fit every Jewish stereotype that I've ever heard,and perfectly. You couldn't trust or believe him about anything. I know better than to lump all others of his faith alonog with him,but some people would in a heartbeat.

Currently I'm managing a house construction job on a remote fly-in native reserve in northern Manitoba. We get most of our workers from the local population. Of course the styereotype up here has been that Native Canadians are lazy and avoid work at all costs. We've had only 2 men that have been with us for the entire 18 months that we've been operating up here. There have been a lot of men that work for a couple weeks to a couple months and then stop working. I've had guys work for one week. I've had some say they want work but then don't show up at all. Apparently it's easier to stay home and simply collect their welfare,family allowance and child daycare cheques. I need some more workers who are willing to step out of the stereotype here.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 17
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 2:04:45 PM

So you don't believe anyone EVER fits a stereotype?


People do fit stereotypes, but those characteristics are not limited to certain ethnicities, genders, or races. Redheads are stereotyped as hot-headed with horrible tempers; some red-heads fit that stereotype, but so do many blondes, brunettes and people with indeterminate hair color. Some blondes are air-heads, but so are red-heads and brunettes. Some women are illogical, but so are some men.

I see indiscriminate stereotyping in the same vein as I see horoscopes; I have read personality traits based on when a person was born that are spot on, but they are also spot on for people NOT born on that date.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 18
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 4:03:22 PM
What this seems to boil down to, is a question along the lines of:

"is there a definable line that can be drawn between logically applying what we learn about people on the one hand, and mistreating them due to our having made negative or positive assumptions about them?"

It's a tricky business, made even more difficult by the creation of special words LIKE stereotyping and prejudice, that add socio-political pressures to the considerations and discussions.

Within myself, I find that I am AWARE of stereotypes which are held to be true by others, mainly because those others often trumpet their prejudices loudly (as in many related forums here).

In each situation, I have to examine and re-examine my own processes and conclusions, not so much because I have a fear of being LABELED as a prejudiced person, as that I myself have so few opportunities to have things go really well, that it is VERY important to me to "get it right" when I am dealing with or making judgments, or choices in my dealings with others.

I have found that there are lots of generalizations about other people, which have been of great help to me, such that I don't waste precious time from my life, "giving a stranger a fair shake," only to reconfirm for the umpteenth time that, yes, people who lie HERE, are also likely to lie THERE, and so forth.

We CAN'T make reasonable progress through our lives without accepting that there will be SOME cases where we lose out, owing to having learned that "almost all people who look or act like THAT, wont work out."

In relationships alone, I have a plethora of items that I look at, and segregate huge swaths of women aside, with the near certainty that even if I myself find them quite attractive physically, that there is almost no chance that they will like me, or that we will find each others lives to be compatible, etc. I do NOT think that the pejorative word "stereotyping" applies to these sorting decisions I make. I have regular bouts of doubt, where I shake in my boots, and hope I have not left the princess of my dreams in a crossed off category somewhere.

Where I think we go wrong, and take things too far, is where we make a rule that once someone HAS followed a given stereotype, that we will then forever limit them to the expectations that we attach to that stereotype. Thus, if a guy dresses horribly off the job, but dresses well on the job, we WOULD be going too far if we got rid of him for his OFF work habits. That would be misapplication of stereotypes, and/or application of prejudice.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 19
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 4:32:20 PM

if someone shows up for a job interview dressed completely inappropriately for the position they're interviewing for, snapping gum incessantly and too worried about seeming "cool" by using "hip" slang to string together a proper sentence in a professional manner, then there isn't much likelihood of me hiring them to represent the company.


The first impression can be the last impression. This is a verbatim (except for the name of the firm) email that my sometimes boyfriend received from a young man who wanted a position in his firm:


i was told of a plant xxxxx has in california that may be hiring, what are some of the job opertunities one such as myself can attain? the site say's their
are 300 of them but it does not list any of them. im currently looking
for a job that pays well while also invalving travel ta forgin country's
i currently reside in il in the usa and i have a highshcool diploma are
their any job opertunities avaleble?


Is it stereotyping to say that this person is semi-literate? Lazy? Maybe a bit stupid? Sometimes, you read what is on the page.
 Glenoran1
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 20
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 6:54:06 PM
Sometimes stereotyping comes about in odd ways. The following two examples happened about 15 years apart, but what I learned from them made a profound impression on how I perceive people:

In Ottawa, the area I lived in included a large percentage of East Indians who had minimal knowledge of the English language. On numerous occasions, such men would stop me on the street and say (verbatim), "Hello, my name is ... May I ask your name? Where do you live?". I would be offended and brush them off. I gained the opinion East Indian men were disrespectful to Caucasian women, and gave them a wide berth whenever I saw one coming in my direction.

Shortly after I moved to Vancouver Island, British Columbia, my mother and I joined several other volunteers in taking in 'Boat People' from Viet Nam. These were a teenage brother and sister with no English whatsoever. They started taking English-as-second-language courses, and one of the first thing they were taught was to practice talking to people on the street, saying -- you guessed it -- "Hello, my name is ... May I ask your name? Where do you live?".

Why teachers were having them do this is beyond me. So those East Indian men were just doing what they had been told to do by their instructors, and getting a terrible reputation for doing so because their intentions were misunderstood.

I've never forgotten that.
 Bishopboat
Joined: 9/3/2010
Msg: 21
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 7:49:58 PM
Every steretype has truth to it... Best one black men are criminals... Well, there is a HUGE disproportionate number who are. White men cant dance? Well... Most cant... Blacks cant swim? Well, well alot cant...

Like I said, truth to every steretype.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 22
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 9:13:57 PM

Every steretype has truth to it... Best one black men are criminals... Well, there is a HUGE disproportionate number who are. White men cant dance? Well... Most cant... Blacks cant swim? Well, well alot cant...

Like I said, truth to every steretype.


Your point is moot because there is "untruth" to every stereotype. If we approach any person based on a stereotype, we are not giving that person a fair chance.

Also, what is the reasoning behind the stereotypes and that you mention? Is the judicial system set up to be prejudiced against black men? Why can't white men dance? For blacks not being able to swim, you would have to show me stats for that AND give me a reason why they "can't" as opposed to why they never learned.

I can't dance and I can't swim, and I am not male nor black.
 Glenoran1
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 23
stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/20/2011 10:50:22 PM
Bishopboat, statistics (even if they are accurate) don't tell the whole story. IF (and I think that's a huge 'if'), say, a disproportionate percentage of 'black men' are criminals, it wouldn't take into account that the vast majority of them, compared to the same number of 'white men', live in poverty or do not have the educational opportunities their white counterparts often have. It also depends on the location (in the U.S.? Or in Africa? Or the Caribbean? etc.).

Statistics can be made to back up almost any belief. It is only when all elements of both categories under discussion are evenly considered that a potential trend, over a particular time frame, in a specific location, can be noted. Anything else is so skewed that the numbers are meaningless.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 24
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/21/2011 5:14:57 AM
When stereotypes are synonymous with "general observations," they usually don't get in the way of real life. When they instead take on the mantle of determinative RULES, then they turn into reality damaging prejudices and societal oppressions.

That was what I was trying to get across. If you think that since a large number of Hispanics where you live are illegals, and you respond to ALL Hispanics as though they are, then even if your guess (that most are illegal in your area) is correct, you are going right past intelligently using learned observations, and diving into persecutions.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 25
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stereotypes..so what if?
Posted: 11/21/2011 5:15:18 AM
When stereotypes are synonymous with "general observations," they usually don't get in the way of real life. When they instead take on the mantle of determinative RULES, then they turn into reality damaging prejudices and societal oppressions.

That was what I was trying to get across. If you think that since a large number of Hispanics where you live are illegals, and you respond to ALL Hispanics as though they are, then even if your guess (that most are illegal in your area) is correct, you are going right past intelligently using learned observations, and diving into persecutions.
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