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 AUTHOR
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 3
avoiding controlling menPage 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
the last couple of relationships I have been in, the men although great in the beginning became controlling, trying to put me down or in my place, and aggresive behaviour. It seems like those people attracted to my independent nature

Many very experienced men know that some women who CLAIM to be very independent/DIY everything alone are actually NOT.. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Queen Gertrude in "Hamlet" by Shakespeare. So some dominant types may wait for evidence of it before believing it..


the men although great in the beginning became controlling, trying to put me down or in my place, and aggresive behaviour.

Some PEOPLE strive excessively for that feeling of much CONTROL in their relationships (as you may be doing, or just claiming), and you may have selected those few alpha men that could mask that in the beginning..
Ponder just what it is that makes you select them that way, and work to upgrade your picker...

Finding and maintaining a compatible long-term SO relationship IS
the second greatest challenge in life..
Since it requires SHARING about 50% power/control with another imperfect human being like yourself... S
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 5
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:32:21 AM
Interesting question and I think many people would have a similar concern... often what seems most fair at first, turns most foul.

Some tip offs would include how the person speaks about past relationships. Do they bad mouth their former partners without taking responsibility for their own part of what went wrong. Indicates immaturity irresponsibility.

Do they bad mouth others in general - indicates arrogance.

See how they treat other people, especially others down on their luck or in serving role such as secretaries, waiters/waitresses.

How do they handle disappointments? Do they get angry for very little reason?

If there is any disagreement between you, do they make person attacks - insults?

Are they willing to take things slow enough in a relationship and respect your boundaries, or pressuring you into too much too soon.

Is it all about them?

Some of these things may not be evident for at least a few months, but sooner or later, they can't keep up the show and the real person emerges.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 6
view profile
History
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 8:04:52 AM
I'd say there is something in their personality that draws you to them. If 2-3 relationships always go the same way you need to recognize a pattern.
Sometimes when you are always having to be strong and independent you tend to be attracted to a take charge kind of man. Unfortunately these type of men can also be very type A and controlling.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 7
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 8:11:18 AM
"Not just annoying people, but darkly seductive. Emotional Vampires draw you in with charm, beauty, talent, and pulse pounding excitement. Then they drain you – not of blood but of every last drop of emotional energy.
You know them – Sexy, but unreliable lovers, drama queens who use emotions like Afghan Rebels use Kalishnikovs, jealous spouses, demanding parents, manipulative coworkers, and bosses with gigantic egos, who are so small everywhere else.
It’s almost supernatural how quickly Emotional Vampires can get you to trust them, then, just as quickly, get under your skin and drain you dry. It’s downright scary how quickly they can trick you into letting them come back and do it again."

From Emotional Vampires - how to recognize and deal with the people who drain you dry. As reviewed in albernstein dot com
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 8
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 8:42:04 AM
For me a good indicator is when an adult shows open signs of jealousy, and it is unfounded. IE you gave them no reason to act/feel jealous.

A man who gets annoyed that you draw other mens eyes by just being yourself...USUALLY has control issues and instead of taking it as a compliment, walk away next time.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 10
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 9:09:42 AM

Need some help please, am an outgoing but caring person, but find in the last couple of relationships I have been in, the men although great in the beginning became controlling, trying to put me down or in my place, and aggresive behaviour.

It seems like those people attracted to my independent nature, seem to start to detest it and want to change me, am very up front and honest about who I am, and like to think I know someone before intimacy. But tend to be quite a passionate person, am attracted to that in men. Don't think Passion and control have to be linked though.

I don't think a lot of things you mentioned have to be linked. For example, I always tell my fiancee where I am. I don't know if she cares that much, but I just tell her anyway and I don't think that has any impact on my sense of independence. If a woman was putting me down, that would be her problem. I don't have to accept the put dows or let her control me. She's welcome to get frustrated and walk away. Some have. Who cares? Relationships are a risk and you can't get a gaurantee up front. You just leave if you got a lemon.

Also, whether or not your description of put downs or putting you in your place is accurate depends on what you consider those things to include. If you can't take any sort of criticism or don't think you should make any sort of adaptation to your partner, then you're being contrary for the sake of proving something. Without specific example (and not one extremely obvious one that isn't representive of the person overall), it's hard to know what you mean by controlling. The word controlling is a loaded word designed to ensure support from others.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 12
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 9:19:46 AM

For me a good indicator is when an adult shows open signs of jealousy, and it is unfounded. IE you gave them no reason to act/feel jealous.


That's sound advice. I think a good sign of someone controlling is someone who is TOO nice at the beginning and suddenly does a 360. Lil things like "Your wearing THAT? No, wear this" and such. Its in the lil things, the lil orders.
I actually spent myself a lot of times single wondering if I was controlling or abusive, trying to figure out if I was a woman beater. I was with a girl, and my not yet 1 year odl daughter, and it wasnt a good relationship. Wed get into fights all the time, she had quite the attitude, she'd throw stuff at me LOL. Then, she admitted to me that she SHOOK my daughter. THAT sent me over the edge, I slapped her and knocked 2 teeth out. AND deeply regretted it, but still...you dont touch the kids.
After lots of soul searching and lots of advice from friends, I came to the conclusion she was actually the controlling and abusive ones, for reasons too long to write here. But its never fun, and if you find your in one such relationship...RUN LIKE HELL! lol


That being said, I gots no problem with a woman being the brains of the operation. Like RI|GHT NOW,. Any takers?
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 15
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 9:39:52 AM
Withholding affection, intimacy
Emotionally abusive
Demeaning behaviour,
Aggressive behaviour, shouting, breaking stuff, physically abusive
Trying to cut you off from family and friends

OP, some PEOPLE may try those things in emotional outbursts when they don't always get their way.. Both men AND women may do those things.. So we need to re-title this thread "avoiding controlling PEOPLE"..

Books have been written on that issue, and there are degrees of "controlling" behavior that most everyone has experienced..
As others have said, when you first observe that in another is the time to communicate about it, and if the person continues striving for excess "control", then engage your legs and leave..
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 16
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 9:46:52 AM
My way of doing this is to enjoy the relationship and make sure that they know I'm going to do what I want when I want. If I start getting asked to check in or justify what I'm doing, I cut them loose.

Most controlling guys will get my deal real early on and won't bother with me, but there are the ones who like a challenge and think they'll be the one to change me. Not the best move for them, but whatever.

In other words when you see it start, just walk away and sever all contact...and be very firm and strict about them crossing the boundary. If they think it's more trouble than it's worth, they'll leave well enough alone.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 17
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 9:49:00 AM
There is a way to avoid controlling men. The solution is to avoid controlling men. As soon as you see controlling behavior, leave. Please send $50 for my consultation fee.
 infennario
Joined: 5/24/2011
Msg: 19
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 10:00:02 AM
Also beware of people who act as though they know what you (or others) think or feel or should think or feel, without any basis other than their own beliefs. Patricia Evans (book Controlling People) says controllers are in a delusion that they think they know what you think and feel, or how you should think/feel/be. She says that it’s pointless to argue with them when they tell you what you think or feel, or should think or feel, so just stop and look at them and say, “What?” or “What did you say?”

One reason it can be hard to detect them at first is because they are initially figuring out whether you fit into their ideal, as opposed to whether they like you as you are. After detecting a few traits that fit their mold, controllers then assume that you have or should have all of the other traits that they want. They pigeonhole you into a type or an ideal. After that, their rigid controlling mindset becomes obvious and they’ll tell you what you are, or should be, how you think or feel, or should think or feel. (Because they’ve decided for you.) “You hate sushi.” “You’ll love this coat.” “You shouldn’t get so upset about that.” “You know I hate fish.” “You know better than that.” “Everybody knows….”

Sometimes you can tell by the way they treat or talk about others. They tend to be rigid, judgmental thinkers, often pigeonhole or stereotype. Often they're authoritarian, so they act dismissive of people who are different or "lower" than them. You can tell if they talk about other people as if they know what they are, think or feel. They assume they're right and others are wrong when another person is expressing an opinion, as opposed to a fact.

Sometimes you can test the mindset by starting an easy casual conversation about something they're not knowledgeable about. Then, if they show zero interest or discomfort, that can be an indicator that they're more interested in showing superiority or authority than in learning or conversing with you or about you.

Another way to test it is if they state an opinion, try stating an opposing opinion or a slightly different opinion, and watch their body language, and whether they act curious about your opinion or try to override you. While probably not absolutely decisive, since people do have strong opinions about things sometimes, I think these are pretty early detection methods that can fit easily into a give-and-take conversation early on.
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 20
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 5:02:03 PM
Never have I come across someone who wanted to control me.

There must be a reason that you are attracting them.
Time for some reflection.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 21
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 5:08:45 PM
A couple have already said it, but I'll repeat. Once you find that a guy is controlling or trying to be controlling tell him to phuck off and walk. Of course, you should make sure he is actually trying to control you, and you are not too sensitive about someone actually "caring" about you and your actions. It is a fine line,,,,,sometimes.
 1776or1984
Joined: 12/25/2009
Msg: 22
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 6:44:19 PM
Careful here, most people are complex, you can't set up a list of behaviours like you were out shopping for a car.

It's been said by many posters that both men and women can be control freaks. I'd go further and say that most of us are control freaks on some issues. Simple human nature to ask for what you want and to not like it when you don't get it. Also to want to think that you are safe and react if you think you are not safe. If you think about those that claim their independence by walking away from someone if they are asked to check in or justify things, isn't that in itself a control issue? My opinion is that as long as the other's need for control isn't pathalogical I can take the sh*t with the sugar.

I've been with women control freaks before, usually they are also perfectionists or try to be. Fear is at the base of the behaviour so it was productive to try to ease their fears to see if that helped. Others were hiding something, just waiting for the other shoe to drop and them be found out. Those types were usually immune to learning even if you were patient with them.

Had one once that called me a control freak. I'd set boundaries on our relationship and she would call it controlling her. Little things like no hitting or throwing things when she got mad. Insisting that she not disipline her kids when she was too angry. Pretty much let her do anything she wished as long as she understood that there were consequences that went with her behaviour. So fast forward to when we were breaking up. I had dumped her for lying to me on a serious matter and she shows up a few nights later sitting on my doorstep when I got home late at night. I lived in a rough neighborhood at the time and she knew I had a protective streak in me so after I refused to let her come inside, she throws down her car keys and starts marching down the street. Good looking woman, bad neighborhood, near midnight, not a good idea.

So I go after her, pitch her over my shoulder and take her back to her car. Dang cop car pulls up in front of me when I'm about half way back to her car. Luckily she started laughing, so the cop asks if I want to borrow his handcuffs.

She stopped laughing when I put her back on her feet by her car, put the keys in her hand, and went in the house. She wrote me a letter a few days later saying she had never felt so safe as when I put her over my shoulder and took her back to her car.

The lesson here is that some women, or some women some of the time, find men controlling for reasons that they wouldn't in other circumstances. Is it control when her guy is emotionally stable and is looking out for her best interests when she couldn't? Is it control when she misbehaves and gets gently put in her place for her trouble? Or is it controlling when he finally gets his fill of bad behaviour and dumps her butt?

Two things about men and women that are telling. First is sex. Show me a woman that doesn't like rough sex on occasion if not all the time. Many feel cherished, even feel safe afterward, closer to their mate. Now tell me that sex isn't about control, about domination, and about allowing yourself to be dominated by a man? The act itself is pure control on the man's part and pure submission on the woman's part. The other way can be nice too...

Second thing about men and women and to a certain extent, teenagers. Many like to know where the boundaries are in a relationship be it a man and woman or just how far a teenager can push things. Boundaries make a lot of people feel safe, they know just how far they can act out without hurting themselves by driving someone away. Men love boundaries at times as well.

But, all of this is not really relevant. In the end the only person you can control is yourself. Once you figure that out life becomes much easier. So it really matters not if a woman or a man you are dating is trying to be controlling, what matters is how you deal with it. Me, I've always found it kind of cute in small doses. Big doses don't work on me so there really isn't an issue. Those kind tended to self destruct or made it impossible to want to be around them. Problem solved.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 23
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:04:38 PM
I think all those controlling behaviors were there in the beginning.
But due to attraction or your own insecurities you didn't want to see em.
Or blew em off if you did.
(made excuses for em maybe)

Well don't.
Problem solved.

Also you may be attracted to that type and are just hoping to
find one not too controlling.
I don't think that aspect comes in degrees.
It is either full on or not.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 24
view profile
History
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 7:58:09 PM
It's simple, first you can't always tell until you date awhile, so don't call it a relationship, see it for what it is, dating to get to know someone. When you find things about them you don't like, deal-breakers, then move on, don't try to change a man, figure out if you like him or not before you ever pretend to be in any kind of serious relationship with him. Dating is not being serious, it's for finding out about a person so you can keep some sanity and not go all head over heels for a stranger then act surprised when you find you didn't know the person.
 pasmal
Joined: 2/24/2010
Msg: 25
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/21/2011 10:05:37 PM
Message 20 fjn: "Also beware of people who act as though they know what you (or others) think or feel or should think or feel, without any basis other than their own beliefs. Patricia Evans (book Controlling People) says controllers are in a delusion that they think they know what you think and feel, or how you should think/feel/be. She says that it’s pointless to argue with them when they tell you what you think or feel, or should think or feel, so just stop and look at them and say, “What?” or “What did you say?”

One reason it can be hard to detect them at first is because they are initially figuring out whether you fit into their ideal, as opposed to whether they like you as you are. After detecting a few traits that fit their mold, controllers then assume that you have or should have all of the other traits that they want. They pigeonhole you into a type or an ideal. After that, their rigid controlling mindset becomes obvious and they’ll tell you what you are, or should be, how you think or feel, or should think or feel. (Because they’ve decided for you.) “You hate sushi.” “You’ll love this coat.” “You shouldn’t get so upset about that.” “You know I hate fish.” “You know better than that.” “Everybody knows….”

Sometimes you can tell by the way they treat or talk about others. They tend to be rigid, judgmental thinkers, often pigeonhole or stereotype. Often they're authoritarian, so they act dismissive of people who are different or "lower" than them. You can tell if they talk about other people as if they know what they are, think or feel. They assume they're right and others are wrong when another person is expressing an opinion, as opposed to a fact.

Sometimes you can test the mindset by starting an easy casual conversation about something they're not knowledgeable about. Then, if they show zero interest or discomfort, that can be an indicator that they're more interested in showing superiority or authority than in learning or conversing with you or about you.

Another way to test it is if they state an opinion, try stating an opposing opinion or a slightly different opinion, and watch their body language, and whether they act curious about your opinion or try to override you. While probably not absolutely decisive, since people do have strong opinions about things sometimes, I think these are pretty early detection methods that can fit easily into a give-and-take conversation early on."
*****
These are good distinctions, and cues to note early.
Unfortunately I've experienced these behaviors to a high degree in 1 situation I wish I could erase, and a few similar traits in another person--but, lesser in degree.
I would red flag any instance though, as indicative of their character and save yourself pain, wasted time.
To this day, I don't understand "why", but it's best to not waste time on whys, just leave.
These people are emotionally abusive, and they become physically abusive, if you continue buying their alternate "good" side. Their abusive, controlling nature always reappears.
 Tim0066
Joined: 7/2/2007
Msg: 28
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 5:17:52 AM
Have you tried dating a guy who is NOT... Mr Sweet/Nice/Polite when you first met him?

Just because someone comes off in your first impression as being arrogant or impolite doesn't mean they are. Often first impressions are misunderstood or you take something out of context.

Here's an example;

You and your friends go out to the club/bar for girls night out... when you get there a guy is outside calling another guy a loser and a jerk. "First impression" the guy doing the name calling must be an ***hole.

But, what you didn't see was 10 minutes earlier the guy being called names was arguing with a girl inside the bar and pushed her around and the guy you initially thought was the ***hole was actually making sure the real jerk left and had just a few minutes earlier been defending and standing up for the girl inside bar. Things you'll have ever known had I not used this example.

So, first impression taken out of context of the situation, a guy might appear to be an ***hole but in reality is a really decent man. This happens far more often then people realize.

What I've found is "real" people don't give accurate first impressions. Real, honest, decent people are that way at all times, not just when you get to know them. Players are fake when you first meet them, they need to be to "catch your attention"

Personally I don't care what peoples first impression of me are and I don't use first impressions to decide if I like someone... Judging people by a first impression is the biggest mistake anyone can make.

Whats really funny to see is when girls will take advice about a guy from another girl regardless of what the girl is like. Ever hear the term "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"...

Here's another example;

Girls night out again, hanging out at bar and some other girls are there talking about some guy at the bar and calling him a loser and a jerk. So you assume that guy must be a loser right?... but without knowing the background (The girl doing the name calling was rejected by the guy, and really "she's" the loser/jerk... you girls KNOW plenty of other women who are pyschotic lunatics. Don't assume you know the whole story.)

Now I've seen BOTH of those examples happen in real life, not just hypotheticals.

Some things to consider for the future... don't assume your first impression is right. If he seems too good to be true, he probably is. Just because he initially seemed like an ass, doesn't mean he is. (This is all a matter of situation and context)

Fairy Tale Prince Charmings don't exist, nor do sweet wonderful Princesses. If someone says they are, they are a liar and should be avoided for dating or friendships.

Inside every good man is a little "bad boy" but... Inside every bad boy is not always a good man, in fact there rarely is.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 29
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 9:30:48 AM

You and your friends go out to the club/bar for girls night out... when you get there a guy is outside calling another guy a loser and a jerk. "First impression" the guy doing the name calling must be an ***hole.

Not really. My first thought is "is he blocking the door? Where's the bar?" I could care less about two guys outside calling names when I'm about to head inside with my girls to have a good time. As far as we're concerned, most men are backdrop.

Here's another example;

Girls night out again, hanging out at bar and some other girls are there talking about some guy at the bar and calling him a loser and a jerk. So you assume that guy must be a loser right?... but without knowing the background (The girl doing the name calling was rejected by the guy, and really "she's" the loser/jerk... you girls KNOW plenty of other women who are pyschotic lunatics. Don't assume you know the whole story.)

I don't care about this either, though I might ask them if they could keep it down while I'm having a good time, or move somewhere I don't hear other people's random conversation about people I'm probably never going to interact with.

P.S. Msg 28 -

Great list! I've unfortunately had some people close to me growing up that were controlling, among other things. Unreal how much of that is right on the money. Can we thumbtack that list somewhere around here for future reference?
 Tim0066
Joined: 7/2/2007
Msg: 30
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 10:42:22 AM

As far as we're concerned, most men are backdrop.


Nice way to view other people, kind of a sexist statement really. Men are beneath women eh...

How anyone views/treats strangers is a good sign of how they will treat their spouse once they've past that initial lust/honeymoon stage of dating... you eventually become just a "backdrop" to them.

I've read enough from you to know I'd never date you... although I'm surprised you're single, shouldn't you have been holding onto your last bf till you found a new one?

I think OP was looking for ways to spot personality traits before getting seriously involved. You've been quite helpful so far ;)
 ChillinChill
Joined: 6/17/2011
Msg: 32
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 11:12:09 AM
I don't let them create my agenda or choose my friends or tell me what I can and can not do... but if I want to do what he asks and he knows how to make it my pleasure then I like a man who takes control.
 Bkrast
Joined: 2/9/2011
Msg: 35
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 11:45:37 AM
Backdrop = Background, as in part of the scenery. So you did get it right. Don't know if I'd let the stars tell me a lot about my preference in partners. "The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves".

These lists are making me think back on past partners that in the end had controlling natures. I'm digitally shivering right now.
 DudeistPriest
Joined: 3/30/2009
Msg: 37
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 12:28:53 PM
My last LTR was with a self proclaimed"independent woman", and she was to a fault. She was so protective of her independence she became paranoid and distrustful fof friends and family as well as me. She would get angry if I wanted to or tried to surprise her in any way.
She saw it as controlling. Couldn't make plans of any kind without be accused of trying to control her time. It was impossible to have a relationship any more.
To tell the truth, between and her and my ex wife before her, I find that woman that extoll themselves on their independence are the control freaks.
 DoubleParked
Joined: 10/22/2008
Msg: 38
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 2:31:17 PM
It might be helpful to see how he interacts with the female members of his immediate family. Guys who are older brothers sometimes just assume that his little sisters need guidance. Or sometimes guys who grow up in mostly male households are used to having to jockey for position within a group of males. In the first instance, it's a protective instinct, in the latter it's more a survival mode. And they might not realize that they are coming off as controlling to a woman with whom they wish to be close.

You may want to explore with these guys the HOW of their manifestation of caring. It may not be as AWFUL as all these posters are painting it!
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 40
avoiding controlling men
Posted: 11/22/2011 3:58:32 PM

Nice way to view other people, kind of a sexist statement really. Men are beneath women eh...

Nope - what I meant was in the context of girls night out, it's usually about the girls. Men are usually not the focus of the evening nor do we pay them much attention - so we'd barely notice whether or not two guys were outside having an argument.

How anyone views/treats strangers is a good sign of how they will treat their spouse once they've past that initial lust/honeymoon stage of dating... you eventually become just a "backdrop" to them.

I don't plan to get married, so I won't worry about this, and neither will my future non-spouse.

I've read enough from you to know I'd never date you... although I'm surprised you're single, shouldn't you have been holding onto your last bf till you found a new one?

Hold on to him for what purpose? Between work, and school there's not much time for boyfriends - and I'm usually not one to go from one to another - I spend more time single than not, as to me men are nice, but I don't feel I have to be someone's girlfriend to matter. Not sure how a personal assessment of me has to do with the fact that most women who go out with friends to a bar, club, restaurant don't particularly notice what men (or other women outside their group) are doing. They are usually paying attention to where the bathroom is, the DJ, the bartender and who's in their way on the dance floor.

I think OP was looking for ways to spot personality traits before getting seriously involved. You've been quite helpful so far ;)

Not sure what that means, but seriously, back OT - if someone's uncomfortable with the way someone else is dealing with them, it's good to step back and watch them to see what their deal is. What usually outs people who won't have your best interest at heart is time - if you don't give things time you tend to miss a lot of important information.
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