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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?      Home login  
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 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 1
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?Page 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
I have been pondering this after reading a through some of the threads on here..
i haven’t got a scientific background and i am not religious ,
but i would like to think that i have an open mind. here is what i understand as to be true Elements are made up from atoms, with one proton and one neutron =hydrogen and so on..with around 117 known elements..90 being natural and the rest being synthetic..
We know that elements are created from stars and super nova..so we have these elements ,created from the stars..
1. Oxygen (65%)
2. Carbon (18%)
3. Hydrogen (10%)
4. Nitrogen (3%)
5. Calcium (1.5%)
6. Phosphorus (1.0%)
7. Potassium (0.35%)
8. Sulfur (0.25%)
9. Sodium (0.15%)
10. Magnesium (0.05%)
11. Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
12. Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)
Which make up the human body..
We know that what we see is what light the object absorbs..
We know that what we hear is from what objects vibrate..
So where does god /sprites/ghosts fit into this .?
are they made up of the same elements? if not what..
When people say they have seen a ghost,, for them to have seen it ,, it would have to have substance.. as light would have to have been absorbed, for them to have seen that image..
What do they really see?
Where people have said they have been spoken to by god/spirts/ghosts.. then that sound most have come from a object which was able to create an energy to produce a vibration..
What do they really here?
On the creation front , its been said that we have been created by a god .. as hydrogen was the first element formed after the big bang and all other elements formed from the cooling of the event and from nucleosynthesis, ..
At what point does the creator become active ? as the elements to make a human where not present until after the big bang..
Hopefully people from both camps religious and scientist ,will be able to shed some light on this for me,
 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 3
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 7:51:08 AM
the thread is not meant to disprove or prove the existence of a god/sprits/ghosts.. but to ask the question where and how they fit into our human existence ..

as stated in op ,, the elements to create a human where not present at the beginning of the universe.. so the question is at what point did the creator become active?
 Sussexman2
Joined: 11/27/2011
Msg: 4
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:05:19 AM
It is yourself!! There no A God or no THE God. It is simply yourself. It's a WORD to describe the unattainable. Quote: In the beginning was the WORD and the word was God and was made God, i.e an invented word, like the word Kangaroo meant "I don't know" when asked of an aboringini "What's the name of that animal jumping about"
 dwight_the
Joined: 7/4/2010
Msg: 6
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:13:31 AM
Ourind is quite limited yet we think we are so powerful.Remember the ending of men in black ?
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 7
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:14:13 AM
"the thread is not meant to disprove or prove the existence of a god/sprits/ghosts.. but to ask the question where and how they fit into our human existence ..

as stated in op ,, the elements to create a human where not present at the beginning of the universe.. so the question is at what point did the creator become active?"

you actually asked: "What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?"


i would think you would first have to be able to define thought.
i'm putting my thoughts down here but they are not made of any elements nor are they a wave, so what properties would you use to describe them?
 IanT1976
Joined: 11/26/2011
Msg: 8
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:20:33 AM

Maybe that is what sustains this entity... The voluntary belief of its followers.

A good book to read for fun, Terry Pratchett's Small Gods. Has exactly that premise that without people believing the god ceases to exist.
 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 9
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:26:06 AM
blimey most have rattled some cages, threads getting voted off hehe..
@msg 5

If it exists, maybe God has always been active and we're just a very late invention - it might have been busy with other projects before it got round to creating us.


like i said i have got an open mind ,, and your quote does have some substance to it ,,, certainly you couldn't rule out the idea off some all mighty being one day creating a human and seeing what happens,,
@msg7

i would think you would first have to be able to define thought.
i'm putting my thoughts down here but they are not made of any elements nor are they a wave, so what properties would you use to describe them?


your thoughts are only subjective to you, they are memories from past experience and knowledge gained .. for you to convey those thoughts make them real ,, you will need to react with the environment around you,,making a change to the same .. and is only possible with force/energy
 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 11
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 8:50:16 AM
so would i be right in saying ,, that gods,spirits ghost.. do not contain any substance ,, that they are only your own thoughts.. and the existence of them are only relative to your own personal views..
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 12
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 9:03:41 AM
"your thoughts are only subjective to you, they are memories from past experience and knowledge gained .. for you to convey those thoughts make them real ,, you will need to react with the environment around you,,making a change to the same .. and is only possible with force/energy"

so you're suggesting that unless i convey them they dont exist?
to say they are subjective is just avoiding the question.
unless i convey them "you" will be unaware of them, but that does not make them any less real.
what i'm saying is they cannot be detected so it simply illustrates that there are things we are unaware of.
we know that to think uses energy but the result cannot be detected, that does not mean it does not exist.
according to science energy cannot be created or destroyed only transformed, since to think uses energy it must surely be getting transformed into something else, that we have no means of detecting what that something else is makes it non existant?
since action is a product of thought, and if god is thought then we would be the resulting action.
don't know where i'm going with this, i'm not even religious
 SteveNaive
Joined: 1/10/2011
Msg: 14
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 9:06:34 AM
I'm going to start of with E=mc2 it is a very widely accepted formula that in it's simplest explanation is both matter and energy are two states of the same thing. Another widely accepted fact is the state of energy can neither be created nor destroyed but changed this is the law of conservation of energy C19.
Where does god or gods come into this comes down to believe which is neither a state of energy or matter.
Spirits depending on what you believe is either in the realm of the gods so ergo has no matter or energy(Soul) or is the changing of bio electric energy in to another form and in context to all living creates bioelectric energy is how we operate from simple movements to conscious cognitive thought.
Ghosts again comes down to the same facts as stated at the top in relation to bio electric energy my particular favorite explanation is the captured moment theory, In that a living creature under tremendious stress flares a bio electric pulse that is captured in the silca and magnetised iron found in most rock and building material and like a chip or magnetic tape stores that energy. Then because of how everybody's wet web is different in how we percieve the elctro magnetic spectrum around us some people are able to feel the captured moment as a visual event and some as a tactile event much like pressing play on a video recorder or feeling the tingle before a lightening strike.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 15
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 9:32:23 AM

What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?

Why, they're made of the same stuff that unicorns, goblins, and demons are "made of";
our fertile imaginations, and a sprinkling of 'magic fairy dust'.....
They're made of the same stuff that Harry Potter, and Gandalf are made of.

You only need to look at any 'optical illusion, to realise that our senses, and our memories, can't be relied on.
People have hallucinations. The very worst kind, are the ones where they don't even realise they've had one, and worse still, when others take them seriously, and actually start believing in them, and giving them credibility, and calling them "visitations", "apparitions", and "spiritual".
It's perfectly possible to "self-hypnotise" and believe you've seen all sorts of things, it's possible to see them due to a brief, momentary 'brain-fart' [Med. Term] or due to other illnesses, or ingestion of noxious substances, either knowingly, or unknowingly.

There's lots of stuff we still don't know about, and probably lots more stuff, that we don't even know that we don't know about.....

But we do know enough, to know that " God , Ghosts and Spirits", are nothing more than ignorant, primitive superstitions.

So the answer to your question, in short: Nothing.

 Loumooos
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 16
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 9:39:08 AM
I like SteveNiave's explanation. We all know fear heightens our perceptions, take Horror films etc. They are filmed do create reactions and put us in a ' too scared to sleep with the lights off situation.'
 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 17
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 9:42:47 AM
@12

<div class="quote">so you're suggesting that unless i convey them they dont exist?
to say they are subjective is just avoiding the question.
don't think i avoided the question.. however ,, it is my understanding ,, that your thoughts are confined to you and you are alone.. but we can put you in a cat scan and witness these thoughts taking place through electrical impulses accruing in your brain..
its a bit like you putting your hand in a fire..: Neurons will transmit this information to your brain for you to act on ,,, as your neurons can't communicate with mine i will not be affected ,, until you scream with pain that is ..
l haven't got a scientific background ,,so i guess someone can explain it better than myself ..
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 18
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 10:02:11 AM
"but we can put you in a cat scan and witness these thoughts taking place through electrical impulses accruing in your brain.. "

electrical impulses accompany movement, you move your arm there is an electrical impulse, that movement can be seen and described whether or not you are aware of the electrical impulse.
reading an impulse in the brain you can assume that a thought has taken place but you neither know or can describe it.
you cannot detect the thought, but it's there all the same.
which i guess is just as well, as we would all have been locked up a long time ago if it were possible
 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 19
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 10:09:15 AM
@13

It looks like you're hoping to get a definitive answer on something, there is no definitive answer to.


maybe your right, but maybe i had the answer already, that gods,spirits,ghosts have no substance and only exist in your mind, but if you can convince other people that they are real ,, then they can exist in the real world through you..
 Loumooos
Joined: 5/4/2009
Msg: 20
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 10:13:21 AM
I see dead people..
 chillicat
Joined: 11/27/2011
Msg: 21
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 10:13:40 AM
maybe your right, but maybe i had the answer already, that gods,spirits,ghosts have no substance and only exist in your mind


but alot of these things have been caught on camera or film..so they cant be all in the mind..? many of them are most likely fakes..but i doubt all of them are..?
 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 22
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 10:37:12 AM
@msg 18

you cannot detect the thought, but it's there all the same.


their is some research taking place that may shed light on how thoughts are filtered out from our brains using Gamma waves ,, if this is the case that thoughts are transmitted through gamma waves,, then they will have mass and can be measured..


but alot of these things have been caught on camera or film..so they cant be all in the mind..? many of them are most likely fakes..but i doubt all of them are..?

that just sounds like the crop circle syndrome though , some people still believe that they where made by E.T ..even though the guys that made them have now come forward,,
 spoon1888
Joined: 1/5/2011
Msg: 23
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 11:12:09 AM

Maybe that is what sustains this entity... The voluntary belief of its followers



Perhaps santa is real then, as if millions and millions belive it then maybe so. However it's children who have this faith and yet the logic is the same; as when we were children thats exactly what is placed on to us....belief. We are never sat down ( as children) with good science books that clearly show STRONG evidence against a make belive guy in the sky.
 fat-trucker
Joined: 2/5/2012
Msg: 24
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 11:30:31 AM
One thing you can rely on in these forums.

There are forum posters that where there."they know"..

They where there at the begining of time,they nailed christ to the cross,
Had coffee with moses,

And where raised from the soddin dead,to come back and tell us on these very forums that.
The whole creation of ,mind, body and soul.
"Is aload of bollox".
 SwanSpirit
Joined: 10/30/2008
Msg: 25
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 11:35:14 AM
I think that science is based as much on belief of this dimension as any other belief. I find it amazing how science is considered fact when it's only our interpretation of this dimension, the limit of our experiences. Spirit isn't of this dimension so can't be fully explained by our science as much as anyone tries. The best thing a spirit ever told me was that death is nothing like anyone thinks it is.
 LyamB
Joined: 7/25/2010
Msg: 26
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 12:45:58 PM
I'd say:

45% lie
30% naivety
20% gullibility
5% optimism

I've watched so many documentaries, read so many books that I have past the threshold of 'believing'. I consider everything you stated supernatural or fictional.
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 27
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 12:51:35 PM

I think that science is based as much on belief of this dimension as any other belief. I find it amazing how science is considered fact when it's only our interpretation of this dimension, the limit of our experiences. Spirit isn't of this dimension so can't be fully explained by our science as much as anyone tries. The best thing a spirit ever told me was that death is nothing like anyone thinks it is.


Best answer so far. I wasnt gonna be the one to bring up quantum physics. If you consider E=MC2 then look at black/worm holes You'll know the former is a benchmark but by no means the limit of what the universe can do all by itself.
 marcochampo
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 28
What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 1:09:22 PM

Best answer so far. I wasnt gonna be the one to bring up quantum physics. If you consider E=MC2 then look at black/worm holes You'll know the former is a benchmark but by no means the limit of what the universe can do all by itself.


+1
i quite like the idea of quantum physics , being used to answer the question of what god/spirits are made of ... as elements defy the laws of physics at this level.. ,also i suppose the gods /sprits ,could reside in a parallel universe , and be able to traverse into this universe keeping part of , or all of their chemical structure ,which is immeasurable using our science ..
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 29
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What is God ,Ghosts Spirits Made From ?
Posted: 2/26/2012 1:23:11 PM
There have been some 'experts' in the field, who have speculated that the brain could operate on some quantum level, and they base this on the 'Bose Einstein Condensate" effect, of simultaneous synchronicity, which apparently, can be found to exist in nature, in some substances.

But 100% of all claims which have been investigated, regarding "spirits"/ghosts/gods/miracles/out of body experiences etc etc., ad nauseum, have been found to be subjective delusions at best, and outright frauds, at worst.

There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any of these ''supernatural phenomena" .

My invisible friend concurs.
So that's proof then.
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