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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you      Home login  
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 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 1
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting youPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I'm going to be moving my mails off Google because of their new sharing policy. Unfortunately I'll be doing it too late now since it starts tomorrow but better late than never. Will you still be using your Google services unchanged knowing that anything you do or say on one service can now be shared with all Google services?

The biggest worry is if this would affect Google Government services in the nerd news. Oh, you didn't know Google makes govt. software - yeah they do. http://www.google.com/enterprise/government/

This below seems to explain it well enough.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/faq-googles-new-privacy-policy/2012/01/24/gIQArw8GOQ_story.html

What is Google doing?: In a nutshell, Google is taking information from almost all of your Google services — including Gmail, Picasa, YouTube and search — and integrating the data so that they can learn more about you. Google Books, Google Wallet and Google Chrome will retain their own additional policies, partly for legal reasons, but Google could still integrate data from these services.

What kind of information are they collecting and integrating?:

Google collects and can integrate almost anything that’s already in the Google ecosystem: calendar appointments, location data, search preferences, contacts, personal habits based on Gmail chatter, device information and search queries, to name a few.

Can they do that?: Well, under the company’s current privacy policies for some of its properties, Google says it can “combine the information you submit under your account with information from other Google services or third parties in order to provide you with a better experience and to improve the quality of our services.” The privacy policies for YouTube and search history, however, did not have such language. Now they do and the company has now made its ability to combine information across these and its other services more explicit.

Why is Google doing this?: Google says it will be able to do a lot more “cool things” when it combines information across products. There’s “so much more that Google can do to help you” if you share your information with them.

Give me an example.: From Whitten’s blog post: Google will be able to “provide reminders that you’re going to be late for a meeting based on your location, your calendar and an understanding of what traffic is like that day.”

Interesting. Tell me more: Also from Whitten: Google will be able to “ensure that our spelling suggestions, even for your friends’ names, are accurate because you’ve typed them before.”

When do the changes take effect?: March 1.

Can I opt-out?: No.

So what do I do if I don’t like the policy?: You can close your account. Google has provided information on how to take all of your personal information off of Google by closing your Google Account, which would erase your Gmail, Google+ and other accounts.

But I have a lot of data saved on Gmail/Picasa/etc...: Google says it is committed to “data liberation” and that it will allow you to take your information elsewhere if you want to. The company said it would provide directions on how to do this in the help sections for its various services.

I don’t have a Google Account, but use Google search. Am I affected?: No. The new policy only applies to people who have a Google Account linked to services such as Gmail, Picasa or YouTube and are signed in.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 2
view profile
History
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 11:36:05 AM
This is resonant of good old Chicken Little screaming that the sky is falling. Anyone that manages to delude themselves into believing that Hotmail/Bing isn't doing the same thing, or Yahoo/Yahoo Search, or any other number of search engines and email accounts that are combined should walk around wearing a helmet...

This is the information age... if information can be compiled and then spit out for market research purposes or any other saleable purpose, it will be...
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 3
view profile
History
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 11:44:59 AM
Thou I try to use all the security measures I can when online, I think privacy is an illusion on the internet, at least google is being upfront about it. If someone really wants your personal information, and you have it on the internet, they will find it, since my searches are very mundane, I'm not too worried.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 4
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 12:23:06 PM
You may consider it chicken little thinking but when I signed up with Google it was because their motto was "Do no Evil". They were put into the spotlight by nerds like me proselytizing to LUSERS that the cool people went to search on Google. If they change we can feel free to expose them for that too and stop using them at all. I was invited to gmail from people in the industry when it started - were you? Google absolutely got their start from nerds advertising for them to non nerds. We figure things out for you, make the guides, tell you what's cool then you follow.

You misunderstand how much sway we have over things. Duckduckgo already agreed not to store information about your searches and Hushmail won't even ask you for a name let alone care about selling off your data. If you think Google is the only company that offers their services you are wrong. They are going to be replaced if I were to predict the future.

No one I know uses Hotmail - it doesn't mask your IP address. The only person using Yahoo that I know is someone old and they only like it for the games. Bing has a legit company and doesn't need to sell us like Google, they have Microsoft behind them who make money off licenses and software. It's only Google forcing ads on everything because it's the only way they make money.

Their biggest problem now is that they have stopped caring what users think - they believe they are a monopoly and you won't leave. People won't link gmail accounts with youtube accounts? No problem - we will change the privacy policy and make them. People didn't like instant search trying to tell them what to type - no problem we will force them to login to turn it off. People didn't like the black bar on the top of the once clean screen - no problem, you can install our toolbar to rid yourself of it. People don't want to use our G+ services as much as Facebook - no problem, we will lie on the reports and claim "active google users as G+ activity" even if all they did was check their email and not look at G+, the privacy policy makes it all so.

Here's you some chicken little - say you have a gmail account for a few years - you decide to make a G+ account. They then export all your interests from your email and your contact list into G+ because your terms say that all things can be used across all services. They also link your recent activity to any youtube videos you viewed. Doesn't that sound cheery. No thanks, I am capable of deciding what each network I use says about me. I don't use different usernames everywhere because I want one search to list everything I've ever commented or participated in online. Be that a JOB search or a ROMANTIC search or a MOM search nixing out Big brother all together.

Once you stop caring about your customers... things just naturally fail... most business owners know that.
 Wolfpath
Joined: 1/24/2012
Msg: 5
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 12:38:51 PM
Google can stuff itself with that.

Homeland Insecurity, exponetiating rational fears and concerns into abject usurious paranoia.

Bout damned time people stood up rather than allowing politicians and stool pigeons to control their lives through fear.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 6
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 12:57:31 PM
Here's the duckduckgo policy - this person is starting off with that same philosophy that we all liked about Google when it started but now it went South. Go ahead, compare it to the new Google policy.



http://duckduckgo.com/privacy.html

DuckDuckGo does not collect or share personal information. That is our privacy policy in a nutshell. The rest of this page tries to explain why you should care. •Why You Should Care - Search Leakage
•Why You Should Care - Search History
•Information Not Collected
•Information Collected
•Information Shared


Last substantively updated on 11/16/10. This paragraph was added.
Before that, on 9/25/10. This paragraph was added.
Before that, on 9/16/10. This paragraph was added.


Why You Should Care - Search Leakage [top]

At other search engines, when you do a search and then click on a link, your search terms are sent to that site you clicked on (in the HTTP referrer header). We call this sharing of personal information "search leakage."

For example, when you search for something private, you are sharing that private search not only with your search engine, but also with all the sites that you clicked on (for that search).

In addition, when you visit any site, your computer automatically sends information about it to that site (including your User agent and IP address). This information can often be used to identify you directly.

So when you do that private search, not only can those other sites know your search terms, but they can also know that you searched it. It is this combination of available information about you that raises privacy concerns.

DuckDuckGo prevents search leakage by default. Instead, when you click on a link on our site, we route (redirect) that request in such a way so that it does not send your search terms to other sites. The other sites will still know that you visited them, but they will not know what search you entered beforehand.

At some other search engines (including us), you can also use an encrypted version (HTTPS), which as a byproduct doesn't usually send your search terms to sites. However, it is slower to connect to these versions and if you click on a site that also uses HTTPS then your search is sent. Nevertheless, the encrypted version does protect your search from being leaked onto the computers it travels on between you and us.

At DuckDuckGo, our encrypted version goes even further and automatically changes links from a number of major Web sites to point to the encrypted versions of those sites. It is modeled after (and uses code from) the HTTPS Everywhere FireFox add-on. These sites include Wikipedia, Facebook, Twitter, and Amazon to name a few.

Another way to prevent search leakage is by using something called a POST request, which has the effect of not showing your search in your browser, and, as a consequence, does not send it to other sites. You can turn on POST requests on our settings page, but it has its own issues. POST requests usually break browser back buttons, and they make it impossible for you to easily share your search by copying and pasting it out of your Web browser's address bar.

Finally, if you want to prevent sites from knowing you visited them at all, you can use a proxy like Tor. DuckDuckGo actually operates a Tor exit enclave, which means you can get end to end anonymous and encrypted searching using Tor & DDG together.

You can enter !proxy domain into DuckDuckGo as well, and we will route you through a proxy, e.g. !proxy breadpig.com. This feature is part of our !bang syntax. Unfortunately, proxies can also be slow, and free proxies (like the one we use) are funded by arguably excessive advertising.

Because of these drawbacks in HTTPS, POST and proxies we decided to take the redirect approach to combat search leakage. However, we leave the choice up to you. You can deviate from the default on our settings page by toggling the redirect or address bar settings. You can also use our encrypted version.


Why You Should Care - Search History [top]

Other search engines save your search history. Usually your searches are saved along with the date and time of the search, some information about your computer (e.g. your IP address, User agent and often a unique identifier stored in a browser cookie), and if you are logged in, your account information (e.g. name and email address).

With only the timestamp and computer information, your searches can often be traced directly to you. With the additional account information, they are associated directly with you.

Also, note that with this information your searches can be tied together. This means someone can see everything you've been searching, not just one isolated search. You can usually find out a lot about a person from their search history.

It's sort of creepy that people at search engines can see all this info about you, but that is not the main concern. The main concern is when they either a) release it to the public or b) give it to law enforcement.

Why would they release it to the public? AOL famously released supposedly anonymous search terms for research purposes, except they didn't do a good job of making them completely anonymous, and they were ultimately sued over it. In fact, almost every attempt to anonymize data has similarly been later found out to be much less anonymous than initially thought.

The other way to release it to the public is by accident. Search engines could lose data, or get hacked, or accidentally expose data due to security holes or incompetence, all of which has happened with personal information on the Internet.

Why would search engines give your search history to law enforcement? Simply because law enforcement asked for it, usually as part of a legal investigation. If you read privacy policies and terms of service carefully you will notice that they say they can give your information on court order.

This makes sense because they may be legally obligated to do so. However, search engines are not legally obligated to collect personal information in the first place. They do it on their own volition.

The bottom line is if search engines have your information, it could get out, even if they have the best intentions. And this information (your search history) can be pretty personal.

For these reasons, DuckDuckGo takes the approach to not collect any personal information. The decisions of whether and how to comply with law enforcement requests, whether and how to anonymize data, and how to best protect your information from hackers are out of our hands. Your search history is safe with us because it cannot be tied to you in any way.


Information Not Collected [top]

When you search at DuckDuckGo, we don't know who you are and there is no way to tie your searches together.

When you access DuckDuckGo (or any Web site), your Web browser automatically sends information about your computer, e.g. your User agent and IP address.

Because this information could be used to link you to your searches, we do not log (store) it at all. This is a very unusual practice, but we feel it is an important step to protect your privacy.

It is unusual for a few reasons. First, most server software auto-stores this information, so you have to go out of your way not to store it. Second, most businesses want to keep as much information as possible because they don't know when it will be useful. Third, many search engines actively use this information, for example to show you more targeted advertising.

Another way that your searches are often tied together at other search engines are through browser cookies, which are pieces of information that sit on your computer and get sent to the search engine on each request. What search engines often do is store a unique identifier in your browser and then associate that identifier with your searches. At DuckDuckGo, no cookies are used by default.

In response to efforts by the EFF and others, the major search engines have begun "anonymizing" their search log data after periods of time. Sure, this is better than not doing so, but you should note that this does not make your search history anonymous in the same way that it is at DuckDuckGo.

What search engines generally do when they anonymize data is get rid of part of your IP address or turn it into something that doesn't look exactly like an IP address. And they do the same thing for uniquely identifying cookies.

However, in many cases, this so-called anonymous data can still tie your searches together, which can be used to reconstruct who you are and what you searched for. Additionally, search engines usually are silent on what they do with the User agent, which has been shown to also have enough information to often be personally identifiable, especially if isolated to a particular search session (day).


Information Collected [top]

At DuckDuckGo, no cookies are used by default. If you have changed any settings, then cookies are used store those changes. However, in that case, they are not stored in a personally identifiable way. For example, the large size setting is stored as 's=l'; no unique identifier is in there. Furthermore, if you prefer not to use cookies to store settings, you can use URL parameters instead.

Additionally, if you use our !bang syntax/dropdown, which bangs you use are stored in a cookie so that we can list your most frequently used ones on top of the !bang dropdown box. Just like the other settings, this information is not saved on our servers at all, but resides solely on your computer. There is also a setting to turn this off, which you can also set via a URL parameter. Particular searches are of course not stored. An example cookie might look like: php=2&yelp=19&java=4.

We also save searches, but again, not in a personally identifiable way, as we do not store IP addresses or unique User agent strings. We use aggregate, non-personal search data to improve things like misspellings.

Similarly, we may add an affiliate code to some eCommerce sites (e.g. Amazon & eBay) that results in small commissions being paid back to DuckDuckGo when you make purchases at those sites. We do not use any third parties to do the code insertion, and we do not work with any sites that share personally identifiable information (e.g. name, address, etc.) via their affiliate programs. This means that no information is shared from DuckDuckGo to the sites, and the only information that is collected from this process is product information, which is not tied to any particular user and which we do not save or store on our end. It is completely analogous to the search result case from the previous paragraph--we can see anonymous product info such that we cannot tie them to any particular person (or even tie multiple purchases together). This whole affiliate process is an attempt to keep advertising to a minimal level on DuckDuckGo.

Finally, if you give us feedback, it may be stored in our email. However, you can give anonymous feedback (by not entering your email or other personal info on the feedback form).


Information Shared [top]

If you turn redirects off in the settings and you don't either turn POST on or use our encrypted site, then your search could leak to sites you click on. Yet as explained above, this does not happen by default.

Also, like anyone else, we will comply with court ordered legal requests. However, in our case, we don't expect any because there is nothing useful to give them since we don't collect any personal information.


Other Search Engines [top]

If you care about search privacy, you might also want to check out these other search engines that take it seriously by default. •Ixquick [privacy policy]
•Scroogle [privacy policy]

Each does things a bit differently in terms of privacy and very differently in terms of results. And not all go as far as DuckDuckGo in some aspects. However, none store your personal information by default, which make them all pretty safe in our opinion.


Updates [top]

If this policy is substantively updated, we will update the text of this page and provide notice to you at http://duckduckgo.com/about.html by writing '(Updated)' in red next to the link to this page (in the footer) for a period of at least 30 days.


Feedback [top]

I (Gabriel Weinberg) am the founder of Duck Duck Go and personally wrote this privacy policy. If you have any questions or concerns, please submit feedback, which gets sent to my personal email.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 7
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 6:04:55 PM
So.... if you search on duckduckgo its a little cumbersome although functional. But if you use the !bang syntax and see google or bing results does google or bing still track or is there a mechanism to break the trace from you to them?
Also if you initiate a search in either of the results windows would the new search be recorded?
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 8
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 6:12:53 PM
Don't know I only use their general search.
This is their forum where you can talk to the developer - they should be able to confirm or you may see it asked.
http://duck.co/recent
 Goldentyga117
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 9
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 6:13:45 PM
Why do you care if google know's where you are ? the majority of people have smartphones now that has GPS on it that can never be turned off...are you spazzing over that ? no?

Then why are you paranoid about google ? If you're not doing anything illegal then why do you care if they could possibly see your emails ?

If you're stupid enough to outline illegal things in your email then you deserve whatever happens to you.

If they were full on invading my privacy like secretly installing malware or something like that then i would have a problem. But my iphone knows where i am all the time so why should i care that google does ?
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 10
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 6:30:34 PM
Why do you care if google know's where you are ? the majority of people have smartphones now that has GPS on it that can never be turned off...are you spazzing over that ? no?

Then why are you paranoid about google ? If you're not doing anything illegal then why do you care if they could possibly see your emails ?

If you're stupid enough to outline illegal things in your email then you deserve whatever happens to you.

If they were full on invading my privacy like secretly installing malware or something like that then i would have a problem. But my iphone knows where i am all the time so why should i care that google does ?

I take it your answer is no, it's not affecting you - noted.
Good thing they won't do anything without your knowledge and all. You sound safe.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/google-dodged-iphone-users-privacy-with-doubleclick-stanford-study-finds.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/14/google-private-data-colle_n_577015.html

That picture they have of your house on Street View is totally natural too right.
 Goldentyga117
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 11
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 6:47:33 PM
That study is irrelevant to me because i don't use safari on my phone...takes WAYYYYY too long to load. But still even if i did...how is this harmful at all to me ? Unless i'm doing something that i shouldn't be doing what's the issue ?
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 12
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 6:48:55 PM
Just because you aren't doing something illegal it doesn't mean that you deserve to be watched.

Here's another breach. That's at least 3 known.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/30/googles-ftc-privacy-settlement-buzz_n_842490.html

This isn't guilty until proven innocent. It's the other way around.
You can stick with them until they sell the length of your toenails for all I care.
I'm getting out like I mentioned.
 Goldentyga117
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 13
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 7:07:03 PM
So then i guess you never go to malls ? or stores ? or bus stations or airports ? they all have video surveillance there...you're being watched ALL THE TIME. I don't see how that's any different than google. If you aren't doing anything illegal than explain how it affects you negatively.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 14
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 7:32:21 PM
I have never trusted Google. Any company with the pretense inherent in their motto of 'Don't Be Evil' can't be trusted. The smug self-satisfaction of being 'better than those others' in that platitude brings into question their sincerity and honesty. As it turns out, they're equally as 'evil' as everyone else is capable of being - also more invasive and dishonest. I got 'invitations' to open a G-mail account from many of my friends who thought that was the best thing since sliced bread and 7-Up, and I refused all of them. I let them know of Google's pending policy change about a week ago. Whether they took any action or not is unknown, but if they haven't, they forfeit any right to biitch about it if they don't like it after the fact. I will not use Google as a search engine; instead, I use Ixquick's 'Startpage' - it's a lot more protective of privacy and allows visiting sites in 'proxy' mode. 'Startpage' also keeps no record of which sites I visit, how long I stay at each one, or which links I click. Is there any reason to prefer or use Google when Startpage is available ... ?
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 15
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 2/29/2012 7:49:26 PM
Whether they took any action or not is unknown, but if they haven't, they forfeit any right to biitch about it if they don't like it after the fact.

Yup, I finally got all my youtube videos and contacts removed, that was a pain. It still won't delete the account - f it, I unlinked it and I just won't use it. It's blank now. They will eventually delete it themselves. I'm tired of asking on their forums - been doing that for months.

for alternatives
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 16
view profile
History
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 3/1/2012 3:40:21 AM

Once you stop caring about your customers... things just naturally fail... most business owners know that.
Now you have me curious... when are you going to be deleting your account on here...

Check the policies...
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 17
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 3/2/2012 8:38:05 AM
Re post # 9
I did go to their forums and the reply was once your off the DDG site everything is fair game, once again.

Another (less cumbersome, IMO) alternative is Start Page; here is their propaganda
https://startpage.com/eng/protect-privacy.html

Since they use Google and filter the search for you it seems to pull up more results in a more expected fashion
They give you options to search by proxy if desired.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 18
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 3/2/2012 9:00:25 AM
I did go to their forums and the reply was once your off the DDG site everything is fair game, once again.

Oh

You know, I'm pretty sure I have it in me to create a search engine but in reality what I wouldn't want is all the users. Maybe I'll end up making one and hiding it behind something because when I saw that guy is up to millions of hits a day that sounds like a lot of bandwidth cost. As long as you can figure out how much the bandwidth costs you - you can decide your cost from there. As for getting the page content itself - that's a no brainer - pretty much do that already with RSS feeds. Get the data then extract it from the XML. For a search engine to get the source code isn't a challenge at all. That just requires sending a bot out to view pages in the background. Store the links from the pages then you have more pages to queue up.

Maybe eventually people will accept something like a yearly fee to not have to be concerned with privacy. It's a market possibly untapped. If you could put the person into the mix and they had a stake in improving it - they might rate pages for you and help improve the rankings without ridiculous things like backlink and authority. That started out as a good concept but just became blog comment spam and trying to get as many backlinks as possible. I've told G about it and they erase my comments so I know that they aren't open to criticisms on their ranking and algorithms even if they are constructive comments.

Also too I mentioned to them why is every search general. Why not start categorizing by what I'm searching for and use hotkeys to start the search a specific direction : a company,information,person etc. Things like that at the start I think would cut down the cost on both sides - what you see in results and what amount of records are queried on the server side. The reason I think they don't like the advice is that they didn't build their core to identify things like that so asking for something on that level would mean that they redesign how they store their data and that would be too much work.

The thing for me is that I really want to work more on a game than a search engine tho I have notebooks for each outlining ideas. The engine seems like it would bog me down in networking tweaks instead of funner things like map designs in the game. The parsing would be fun but the game could be much funner overall to release and could become a full-time income. People accept paying for games they like.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 19
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 3/2/2012 2:03:57 PM
Similar topic - instead of making a new one I'll plop it here.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/01/tech/social-media/twitter-selling-tweets/index.html
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 20
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 11/1/2017 9:24:32 AM
google and facebook refuse to commit to refusing foreign money for american political ads

good or not?
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 21
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 11/1/2017 4:28:19 PM

google and facebook refuse to commit to refusing foreign money for american political ads


They commented. They basically admitted to being like you.

Ignorant.
 Forereels
Joined: 5/22/2011
Msg: 22
view profile
History
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 11/1/2017 5:17:44 PM

They commented. They basically admitted to being like you.

Ignorant.




It’s really creepy that you are following the poster above around, and harassing her so much… It’s pretty obvious you don’t like her, why not just leave her alone and ignore what she has to say?
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 23
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 11/1/2017 5:22:04 PM
^^^^Blame it on the whiskey? ****shrugs shoulders****
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 24
view profile
History
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 11/1/2017 7:12:03 PM
Same reason they 'follow' others around and make comments, it's a site forum where we are debating, discussing, and adding our opinions to what others are saying, agreeing or disagreeing.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 25
Is the Google privacy policy change affecting you
Posted: 11/2/2017 4:54:49 AM

It’s really creepy that you are following the poster above around, and harassing her so much… It’s pretty obvious you don’t like her, why not just leave her alone and ignore what she has to say?


Just trying to help the girl out.

She needs the reminders, since she can't even remember the babbling shiat she typed yesterday, while travelling abroad.
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