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 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 2
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Jobs and working...slave labourPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
In my opinion its a piss take and a complete waste of time. JSA Job Seekers Allowance. How exactly are you supposed to look for work when you're already working for nothing? Why should a company pay real wages and provide real jobs when they can get slave labour? Why would Mr Cameron & co want to reduce unemployment when its to his rich mates advantage to have a plentyful supply of desperate destitute paupers to use and discard at will?
Maggie Thatcher once said if you dont like unemployment in your area then On Yer Bike!
Well it would have to be a bike now because;

"After a brief respite, fuel costs will start rising again next year (2012) as demand from the fast-growing economies of Asia triggers a boom in oil markets.
This will push the price of a litre of unleaded petrol from an average of 134.8p now to 154p by the end of 2015"

Newsflash: Its already over £1.40 a litre and the year has only just begun. Maybe if fuel was cheaper people would consider traveling further to work/find employment?
 *rem*
Joined: 11/5/2008
Msg: 3
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/2/2012 7:18:01 AM
It was Norman Tebbit

Thank you.. Maggies employment minister and henchman no 1
 lalby
Joined: 12/5/2005
Msg: 7
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/2/2012 8:31:17 AM
I did a yts scheme as a teen and did fulltime hours for £45 a week and the place i worked had 4 of us doing it!
None of us got fulltime employment when our time was up,we gained an nvq and that was it.
I believe it is slave labour and people should be paid appropriately,If they were going in for a trial period then getting long term work out of it,it would be different but i suspect firms will just use people for cheap labour and when the time comes take another person on in the same situation.
 scriba1
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 13
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/2/2012 2:13:22 PM
What annoys me is the way in which Ministers smear the disabled and unemployed as workshy and scroungers. My two lads in their Twenties have worked in retail but are now unemployed and live with their mother. They want to work but even part-time job vacancies attract about 100 applicants. The JSA does not cover living costs while my younger son has the post-uni debt hanging around his neck. How future graduates will manage when they leave uni with a £30,000 debt I don't know.
More. Whereas my generation could support their parents it is now the other way round causing hardship for families.
My sons have been on various government schemes but no permanent job has been provided.
Is it true that companies receive £2,200 for each temporary placement?
 tenpastseven
Joined: 8/3/2011
Msg: 14
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/2/2012 2:16:15 PM
A friend of mine started on a YTS at the local vets many moons ago. Twenty plus years later, she still works there and is now their head vet nurse. I think she's the only person I've ever heard of that it worked for
 Norsewind1
Joined: 4/9/2011
Msg: 15
Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/2/2012 2:38:32 PM
No Tesco was in a bit of a pickle, the Eastern Europeans that they favoured for paying low wages, have now found out that they earn more on the dole than stacking tins ..so they had to find cheap labour from somewhere
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 16
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/2/2012 2:59:46 PM
I think the three main things with this subject are

1. a company doesnt magically have extra man hours of work that needs doing whenever a free employee can be found. Each hour worked by a "free" unemployed person is an hour less that one of their existing employees gets paid for doing. So these people arent improving the jobs situation, theyre actually reducing peoples hours which in turn means less money floating around the economy. Multiply that by MILLIONS of hours x the minimum wage and you have a majorly negative economic influence but a huge bonus for the shareholders

2. We have far more people than jobs, and the government is still unwilling to limit the influx of immigrants. So exactly what jobs are these people being "prepped" for? Infact if there was a steady enough supply of the unemployed companies could reduce its existing workforce quite dramatically and replace those previously paid manhours with free temps. So this scheme is far more likely to increase unemployment than reduce it

3. Its supposed to be about cutting the welfare budget. problem there though is that the government is paying a small fortune to private companies many of which are brand new shiny ones started up to take advantage of this new cash cow by MPs friends and relatives. So the real purpose isnt to get anyone into work, but I suspect is just to create new ways of getting tax payers money into the bank accounts of the well off by circulating the unemployed through pointless schemes at a high cost but with the added benefit of a percentage failing to jump through every hoop and being left with nothing to live on for varying periods of time

The A4E scandal shows clearly what the real point of these schemes are, and finding people jobs really doesnt feature in the slightest
 Norsewind1
Joined: 4/9/2011
Msg: 17
Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/2/2012 3:12:30 PM

the government is still unwilling to limit the influx of immigrants


But they cant stop it, its European law .. all EU workers can live and work where ever they want in the EU Union ...God help us when Turkey gets membership
And what you say about the hours of work for the staff.. nearly all shop floor staff are classed as part time
 stonecastle
Joined: 2/14/2007
Msg: 26
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/3/2012 4:15:42 AM
I think that participants in the government's work experience scheme should be paid at least 30 pounds a week on top of their normal benefit money for taking part. For example back in 1983 I took part in a youth training scheme and was paid 25 pounds a week which was 9 pounds ontop of normal dole money for 16 and 17 years olds at the time. Given inflation that 9 pounds back then would be around 30 pounds in today money.
 daspecimen
Joined: 11/24/2011
Msg: 30
Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/3/2012 10:20:38 AM
i don't see it as slave labour myself, more a version of an internship.

these people face a choice;

not working, maybe doing a few "courses" with no way getting a foot in the door or

doing schemes like this, getting work experience and showing employers that you can work, can be part of a team and can be relied on
 scriba1
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 33
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/3/2012 4:06:54 PM
Francis 1956. How nasty!
What do I tell my 27-year-old son who has lost a job on four occasions due to the closure of the four companies? And became suicidal.
At one restaurant, he worked in the kitchen on minimum wage. He walked there and back due to the high cost and unreliability of public transport. After an hour's walk, he worked a ten-hour day. You have no idea how demoralising unemployment can be to those youngsters who want to work. I hate politicians.
 gemini_lady_uk
Joined: 7/16/2008
Msg: 35
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/4/2012 4:56:29 AM
I don't see any reason why people on Benefits should just get to sit at home all day doing nothing. I think the idea of getting people out of bed, into a routine and gaining experience (if not actual skills) is a good one. However, this could easily be achieved by working in an organised scheme helping out in the community. If the likes of Tesco's have a requirement for staff then let them pay the going rate for it. Different if it is a small business that is trying to grow but can't expand without staff and can't pay full wages to staff until they have expanded.

I was one of the lucky ones on a 'scheme'. £10 a week over Unemployment Benefit (which I wasn't actually claiming). Think the £10 was to cover transport etc. Was meant to be 3 months with the possibility of a full time job at the end. I told them I would do 4 weeks to prove I was capable of the job and then I expected them to take me on. They agreed and I got the fulltime job, went on to become their secretary and then they paid for me to do a H & S Course so I became their Advisor and also dealt with the purchasing.

My daughter worked for McDonalds for years (she actually enjoyed it and at the time the minimum wage wasn't a problem for her). I have to admit, even I thought all she did was put burgers together and while some people never expand their role, my daughter did. When she left it was because she has been offered an office job, she went on to run the office, took over doing the accounts and is left fully in charge when the boss is on holiday. He's setting up another business for his son (offshoot of the main one), and offered her a partnership alongside his son. Not bad going for a burger flipper with no work experience outside McD's
 LyamB
Joined: 7/25/2010
Msg: 36
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/4/2012 5:02:58 AM
I don't think JSA covers a full-time job. JSA is what? £60 a week? I doubt any official company/business pay £2 per hour (30 hours)...not even apprentices...

The argument of "why bother working when you get paid to do nothing" is unethical and sickens me.

Here is how the wages stand:

£6.08 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over
£4.98 - the 18-20 rate
£3.68 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18
£2.60 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship

But no, this can't be classed as 'slave labour' on sooooo many levels.
 LyamB
Joined: 7/25/2010
Msg: 38
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/4/2012 5:21:07 AM

Dont bother working when you get paid to do nothing? I got the princely sum of £67 a week and I am expected to work for that. Would you? Would you do your current job for £1.91 an hour?


You say £67 a week, but for all I know; you're doing 5 hours. I'd work for the equivalent of JSA. I prefer my CV to be full than empty. Also, experience is always a bonus.


What sickens me is that companies see the unemployed as some sort of cheap alternative to actually hiring people when they can afford to because they make millions of pounds in profit a year.


I don't understand this.


And being on different wages to your colleagues isnt unusual. I once earned £11 000 a year and a colleague was on £14 000 even though I was qualified to do the job and he wasnt. Because my employer matched his last employers salary and they didn't match mine.


Then go to ACAS. So many things can contribute to someone's salary. Training, yearly wage increases, performance, age, etc...


You chose to work in McDonalds, that is the point. You had a choice. People being forced into schemes or they get their benefit cut don't have a choice. You might complain if you were working a 35 hour week with no prospect of a full time job at the end for £1.91 an hour while colleagues beside you get a wage, overtime etc.


I'm pretty sure that wage is illegal.


Oh and the thing is I am quite sure the Govt are well aware that people will be too busy bashing people on benefits who don't want to do it than to actually have a think and see how wrong schemes like these are.


In 3 years, I've had 3 jobs. I was made redundant in the first 2 but had another job within a week. The 2nd job I had was horrible, I hated it - but I worked it. How was it so easy? Because I did the jobs others wouldn't.

If people are browsing jobs and see a position for a 'cleaning vacancy' - they'll probably just skip it.
 Trianon123
Joined: 12/1/2011
Msg: 40
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/4/2012 6:54:38 AM

and they get £600 per person they get into work


Do you have a source for that figure so I can check it out please?
 daspecimen
Joined: 11/24/2011
Msg: 41
Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/4/2012 6:55:11 AM
Pauline2012, I don't know much about you or your current situation but would you do a similar scheme, while getting your JSA if there was the potential job in it at the end of the line for you once you proved yourself?
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 46
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/5/2012 2:28:47 AM
Unpaid work experience isn't always bad. A placement in a company for a few weeks costs the company in time and manpower, as the workplace person is supervised and grounded in various areas within that company's fields of operation. Away from the tabloid journalism, and the militant unions, I wonder if the those companies that had signed up to the the current scheme for those on JSA had actually implemented a proper work experience plan, or had just used those on the scheme as cheap shelf stacker's.

It's pretty similar to the existing opportunities for year 10 and 11 students to gain workplace experience and it does count on their CV's and in prospects of future employment.

I haven't read anywhere with regard the the current furore whether these the much maligned companies actually used JSA claimants as cheap shelf stacker's, or not. But I would hazard a guess some things are don't make good headlines and the truth often is collateral damage in the race for a good story!
 MikeWM
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 48
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/5/2012 5:04:55 AM
If the government wants to "help" these people back to work by padding out their CVs then why isnt it 40 hour college weeks theyre being "forced" into doing??

Because theres no such thing as a shortage of people to stack shelves or pick up litter as practically anyone can do that

Infact smarter countries prefer their own population to do the better jobs whilst immigrants do the more menial tasks, but we seem to be making less and less training state funded even in business sectors where we have shortages meaning those jobs are more likely to be filled by immigrants leaving the existing residents the menial tasks

Is this some form of inverse nationalism?

I think if these 8 week courses gave people the chance to try plumbing, electrical installation, bricklaying, roofing, plastering, cooking, painting and decorating and other actual "trades" it would be far better recieved by pretty much everyone

Plus long term would be far better for the economy as a whole in the long term


But all that seems to be of interest here is the short term and benefitting large companies, not the unemployed nor the tax payers

Not sure if anyone else has noticed but theres also a LOT of news pieces relating to the "thickness" of uk citizens which is subtly supportive of exploiting people to stack shelves as it creates a sense that theres just zillions of dumbos floating around who can probably only just barely manage enough intellect to stack shelves never mind anything more complex which I dont think is accidental
 Marquis_de_Michaelmas
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 49
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Jobs and working...slave labour
Posted: 3/5/2012 5:08:34 AM
http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/tesco-turtle.html#cr

March 2011: Live turtles are still being sold in Tesco stores in China - much to the outrage of conservationists. The store has been marketing the turtles since its first store opened in the country in 2007

In truth their are very few British Companies left that haven't got foreign owners.


^^^^^ Mike, quite right, there is barely any state training/re-training left. What there is costs the individual upfront (perhaps there is room for a similar scheme to the student loans and fees - the Government pays upfront for training and then the claimant pays it back after he/she has employment and gets paid over a certain amount of time). Might pad the unemployment figures a bit!
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