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 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 1
PartisansPage 1 of 1    
It never ceases to amaze me that people have such strong feelings regarding their political parties, when it is easily proven that the two sides are actually not all that different. In fact, if you dig into it, you find that special interests control both "sides" and donate to both sides.
Look at Obama...continued the bank bailouts seamlessly, renewed the Patriot Act and went even further with the NDAA, renewed tax cuts for the rich, continued the neocon Israel-centric foreign policy, etc.etc.etc.
The sad fact is that the presidency doesn't matter all that much. The elites do what they're gonna do.
In fact, our "choices" are guys who've already been vetted and approved.
Both Romney and Obama get HUGE money from Wall St.
It's all about the money.
While the media stirs things up with gay marriage, the moneymen are looting the treasury,
and nobody seems to care.
Partisans are like drunks at a football game, bellowing about nothing.
 coyotefeller
Joined: 11/12/2011
Msg: 2
Partisans
Posted: 3/4/2012 10:43:38 PM
Once we the people have been stripped of
all our belongings and have only our guns
left to fight with we will do so, with only
the constitution to defend what we are doing.
On the other hand we could just all pick
our lazy azzes up off the couch and go vote
on voting day and change all this overnight
without firing a shot......
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 3
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History
Partisans
Posted: 3/4/2012 10:57:25 PM
And the point would be????


That we should all just get along?
That we should allow the Federal Government more control to "set things straight?"
That we should return more control back to individual states to govern closer to their citizens?
That we should relinquish more control to international authorities to unify world concerns?


Even drunks at a football game have an outcome in mind. What is yours?
 magicallaroundme
Joined: 3/9/2011
Msg: 4
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 4:58:41 AM

That we should return more control back to individual states to govern closer to their citizens?


That would be a start, but rather than "give" power back to the states, the states should TAKE it back at the behest of their citizens and within the bounds of the Constitution as written.

The first step would be for the states to tell the federal government where to stick it's unfunded mandates, matching funds, block grants and other dirty money and start doing things their own way.

Want to end the housing and credit crisis in your area? Pass a state law such as this:"all liens against property held in this state by a foreign entity are void and no court of this state nor any law enforcement officer resident in the state shall honor any instrument of foreclosure or collection held by any foreign entity against chattel or real property within the state."

End drive by shootings in your neighborhood? Pass this: "the sale, distribution and use of the following substances.. shall be legal within the territory of this state. Any person who interferes or attempts to interfere with a resident exercising free use or transfer of the aforementioned substances shall be subject to imprisonment in the state penitentiary for a term of 5 to 50 years.

Laws such as these would take some time to reach SCOTUS and once they made a ruling the state could pass another law with slightly different wording or the Governor may if he is brave may pull a GW Bush and issue a signing statement. "Within this state this Supreme Court decision shall be interpreted to mean that any federal official convicted under this law shall serve the maximum of 50 years and without parole."

The other suggestions can be taken in turn.
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 5
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 6:10:30 AM
Sure, the states should take some of the power back and the Constitution would back them up.
But I'm saddened that there was not a huge riot during the bailouts, the biggest theft in the history of man. That could have/should have been a turning point.

Sadly, Arizona has tried to do something about illegal immigration, and the feds wouldn't allow it. The federal government was absolutely wrong in this instance, and this indicates to me that the elites can basically do whatever they want with us and get away with it.

I'm not advocating violence, but if things don't change you can expect civil unrest.

They can't keep inflating the money supply endlessly without consequences, while outsourcing all jobs possible, while illegals undercut everyone else on the local labor market, etc.etc., people continuously getting squeezed until they're all rung out.

Of course the biggest problem of all is money in politics. It's awful that corporations are people, but even before that the special interests were able to control the entire show, as Ralph Nader has said for 30 years. The system is totally dysfunctional and corrupt.
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 6
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 6:35:47 AM
People are not aware of the fact that we are heading for financial disaster, and I am not exaggerating at all. We have a tsunami of entitlements headed our way and no way to pay for it. They seem to be unable to trim the deficit significantly, a very bad signal for the future.
Changes will come that are beyond our control, such as a collapse of the bond market. China has been whining for some time now that they are tired of financing our stupidity.
Our "leaders" just don't get it.

Common sense tells you that we should bring all of the troops home, which would help in terms of spending, but don't hold your breath for that. The military industrial complex is setup to be utilized for resource wars, and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it.
 magicallaroundme
Joined: 3/9/2011
Msg: 7
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 6:55:46 AM

Sadly, Arizona has tried to do something about illegal immigration, and the feds wouldn't allow it. The federal government was absolutely wrong in this instance


@judydentures Well as far as the Arizona law goes, the Feds didn't stop it totally. Illegals are being driven out en mass. It enabled me to pick up some property on the cheap from fleeing Mexican nationals who had to sell quickly or lose everything.

I'm not so sure about the wording of the law, it's long term consequences or my part in preying on the vulnerability of people in distress like a vulture. I do like the precedent it sets for state nullification. More needs to be done.

On the topic of money. Another state law that I would like to see passed in all states is a law that requires all employers and individuals to forward all payroll taxes of its own residents to the state to be held in escrow until April 15 at which time the state legislature shall decide how much, if any, the state shall contribute to the federal government.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 8
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 7:04:24 AM

Sadly, Arizona has tried to do something about illegal immigration, and the feds wouldn't allow it. The federal government was absolutely wrong in this instance, and this indicates to me that the elites can basically do whatever they want with us and get away with it.

Based on that I would assume you have no idea that the proposed Arizona law was nothing more than a scam to build more prisons.

http://www.npr.org/news/graphics/2010/10/gr-ALEC-1070-624.jpg
 onlydateIF
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 9
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 8:52:14 AM
yup-whenever there's a wave of shocking and seemingly unnecessary but inflammatory legislation going around-ie the recent vag probe/rectal exam/ girl scouts are evil stuff, I immediately wonder what's REALLY going on that the above are intended to distract us from-Oh, looky that, they wanna start yet another war really? War is hell. Period. no matter the artfulness of distractions presented while it is being further lobbied by those who want it. The divide and conquer strategy is an old one. Hope they dont invent another false flag event to bang the drums of war. Looks like people need to get this quickly to prevent WW3
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 10
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 5:50:42 PM
Funny you mention that. I've been expecting the false flag any time now.
The regime changes were decided upon many many years ago, and it's playing out just as they planned it, like dominoes. Anything to keep that region destabilized (for Israel) while assuring that we have access to oil in the future.
This is entirely above and beyond partisan politics, and will continue no matter which "side" is in power.
I marched against the Iraq war, and I'll march against a war with Iran as well.
 onlydateIF
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 11
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 8:47:47 PM
yes dear Judy, today the parties were very well united HR347 anyone?? Our very ability to dissent and peacably protest is in grave danger at the moment. Meanwhile those still bickering about the horrific assaults on female victims by Limbaugh and the right do not realize their rights are being stolen out from under them by their elected reps right now, TODAY. Pundits on the far right will often use the "well what about all the human rights abuses against women in Afghanistan?" as their justification for the next move on the chessboard. This is why I immediately know that there are sinister things afoot to look for when I hear tale of misognyist legislation or commentary. Of course , I am as offended as everyone else by the misogny... Paying attention, one learns to see how people, nations and issues are pawns in the larger game.
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 12
Partisans
Posted: 3/5/2012 8:58:09 PM
Great minds think alike. Just a moment ago I posted almost the same thing on the Limbaugh story.
Yeah, it looks to me like the elites are running scared and want to be able to stop any and all dissent. They must be worried about civil unrest. I know if they make a move to invade Iran I'll be in the streets, and I'm sure I won't be alone.

Oh, and by the way, fu** Afghanistan.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 13
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Partisans
Posted: 3/6/2012 7:22:58 AM
I love this post!
the OP really hit the nail on the head
in reality, there is no difference at all between the Democrats, and the Republicans
first of all, it takes millions, to run for office,I heard somewhere that the next election is going to cost a billion!
of course the vast amount of money required to run for office in the USA, comes from special interest groups
corporations, they donate to both parties
so in order for anyone to be elected, they have to serve there masters

It is a bit different in Canada, the amount of money each party can collect is a 'set' amount
in canada, the politicians, get there 'reward' after they sell the working person out
really the same end result, it just looks a bit more ... umm 'nice'
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 14
Partisans
Posted: 3/6/2012 6:53:38 PM
Yeah, the awful truth is that both Obama and Romney are backed by Wall St.
Their biggest contributors are big banks, Goldman, Morgan, etc.
Very sad indeed.
I lean to the right because I'm a fiscal conservative, but that doesn't mean that I like Romney. Not remotely.
I'm disgusted with the entire system/process.
I mentioned in some other post that the L.A. Times had a very recent article(in the last week) that mentioned that tracking the last 50 years, the two parties actually spent about the same. I mention this because partisans always quote some BS numbers to prove that one side outspends the other, when in fact both sides are taking orders from their big money bosses from Wall St., Big Oil, Big Pharma, The MIC, The Israel Lobby, etc.
The USA is an oligarchy, whether you realize it or not. The candidates say what they think you want to hear, then when they get in there they do what their masters tell them to do.
Hell, most of our legislation is written by lobbyists.

Yes, this election is supposed to cost a billion or more. That kind of money doesn't come from grass roots fundraising.
 MOTD2010
Joined: 5/18/2010
Msg: 15
Partisans
Posted: 3/11/2012 9:50:12 AM
Partisanship is just another form of tribalism which has actually been ingrained in humans since their existence. Those that seek to influence or control people know how to push the tribal buttons i.e. rep/dem, right/left, gay/straight, black/white.
Once you recognize your tribal instinct it is clearer to see when it is being used to manipulate you.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 16
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Partisans
Posted: 3/11/2012 11:11:21 AM

Of course the biggest problem of all is money in politics. It's awful that corporations are people, but even before that the special interests were able to control the entire show


What's so awful about it? Corporations have been legal persons in this country for well over one hundred years, which makes that principle about as "black-letter" as law gets.

Is there some reason a person should enjoy freedom of political speech by himself, but not when he acts as a member of a group? If so, I don't know what it is. Buying stock or joining a union or other association shouldn't abridge a person's right to speak.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 17
Partisans
Posted: 3/11/2012 4:41:02 PM
At Match


Is there some reason a person should enjoy freedom of political speech by himself, but not when he acts as a member of a group? If so, I don't know what it is. Buying stock or joining a union or other association shouldn't abridge a person's right to speak.


The issue here is not about enjoying free speech or not; but rather the unfair advantages (via lobbying) that said corporations have over the individual in terms of political influence held over their elected representatives.

Granting personhood to a corporation is one thing but coupling that with the power to amass enormous amounts of capital to persuade law-makers into enacting laws that (arguably) favor the "corporate person", largely without much regard for the "non corporate" persons, makes a mockery of the 'representative' form of government that the benefitting politicians constantly vaunt about to the public especially during election time!
.......................

at MOTD


Partisanship is just another form of tribalism which has actually been ingrained in humans since their existence


I would agree!
.........................

at judydenture


when in fact both sides are taking orders from their big money bosses from Wall St., Big Oil, Big Pharma, The MIC, The Israel Lobby, etc.
The USA is an oligarchy, whether you realize it or not.


This is true; and it will only be brought to an until the American voter starts voting for independants on a grass roots level & up, from coast to coast.


We have a tsunami of entitlements headed our way and no way to pay for it.


we pay for it the way other civil countries pay for it: 1) by instituting controls 2) cutting fraud & waste 3) stopping the bleeding of money going into foreign aid of dubious regimes 4) re-establishing an industrial base where pple can get real jobs that allows workers to pay into the tax system, instead of outsourcing!


China has been whining for some time now that they are tired of financing our stupidity.


the chinese have been keeping the value of their currency artificially low, thus making it a favored place to draw industry. If they want to be taken seriously then they have to act seriously!
..........................

at Magical


The first step would be for the states to tell the federal government where to stick it's unfunded mandates, matching funds, block grants and other dirty money and start doing things their own way.


keep in mind that the states do the same thing to the local communities. The apple don't fall far from the tree!
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 18
Partisans
Posted: 3/11/2012 7:19:09 PM

China has been whining for some time now that they are tired of financing our stupidity.
Our "leaders" just don't get it.


I don't believe for one moment that the U.S will ever pay back this amount in dollars.



Common sense tells you that we should bring all of the troops home, which would help in terms of spending, but don't hold your breath for that. The military industrial complex is setup to be utilized for resource wars, and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it.


It's all quite apparent for even the most diehard disbelievers now.Gain control of production in Iraq.Knockout Libya.Stir the pot in Iran and enact sanctions.Big profits follow.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 19
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Partisans
Posted: 3/12/2012 8:24:21 AM
The issue here is not about enjoying free speech or not


Of course it is. For a long time now, the Supreme Court has regarded corporate contributions to political campaigns as speech protected by the First Amendment.


but coupling that with the power to amass enormous amounts of capital to persuade law-makers into enacting laws that (arguably) favor the "corporate person", largely without much regard for the "non corporate" persons, makes a mockery of the 'representative' form of government


You say that as if the amount corporations may contribute were not regulated by law. But it is. And corporations don't vote--only individuals do that. Our representative form of government is alive and well, and I think that lesson is going to be driven home--painfully--come November.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 20
Partisans
Posted: 3/12/2012 9:35:50 AM
"Partisans are like drunks at a football game,"

Well, I guess at times they are, to me, at least they are watching the game, unlike most of the country that would rather watch American Idol!

Only one poster strongly advocated for voting. NONE advocated getting involved and changing the way things work. When you go on to say, the democrats and republicans are the same, who's fault is that?

Left to their own devices, politicians won't change a thing. Why should they? It works for them, they cowtow to the special interests, get the money and are sent to Washington, there we reward them with lifetime health insurance and a pension that kicks in after one term and is paid out at the rate of one years salary for LIFE!

A funny thing and very representative of the pysche involved here is on POF. Men complain bitterly no one anwers their emails. They want the easy fix, put up a profile and sit and watch the emails pour in, not very realistic, now is it?

Nothing in life, comes free, most everything requires work.

So if you want things to change, stop b1tchin about it, and become part of the solution. Not only vote, but become involved in both parties, change how they work on a local level, it will eventually lead to changes on a state level, not long after that, it will begin to change on a national one.

No, I'm not a pollyanna, I recognize that all things b1tched about, won't change because you complain, only when you try and change them. Though it's by far easier to jump on here and complain(one level) or complain and vote once in a while(second level), than to give up the time spent in your barka lounger in front of the TV sucking down a beer and get out and DO something to change the atmosphere and direction.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 21
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Partisans
Posted: 3/12/2012 11:11:29 AM
^^^ agree with several parts


"Partisans are like drunks at a football game,"
However you have just offended the anti-drunk driving crowd and also offended the entire sports industry and their fans. Not very politically correct of you.


Left to their own devices, politicians won't change a thing. Why should they? It works for them, they cowtow to the special interests, get the money and are sent to Washington, there we reward them with lifetime health insurance and a pension that kicks in after one term and is paid out at the rate of one years salary for LIFE!

How very conservative sounding. So if both sides seem to agree on this why is it still an issue?


Nothing in life, comes free, most everything requires work.

So, if I got a living wage what would encourage me to work? Not quite sure how entitlements reinforce this basic truth of life.


So if you want things to change, stop b1tchin about it, and become part of the solution. Not only vote, but become involved in both parties, change how they work on a local level, it will eventually lead to changes on a state level, not long after that, it will begin to change on a national one.
And now your back to the conservative point to strengthen the local rights of federalism. How does nationalizing issues support affecting change at the local level?


No, I'm not a pollyanna, I recognize that all things b1tched about, won't change because you complain, only when you try and change them.

The system was already designed this way so there isn't really much to change other than to have the federal govt back off a bit. But that is counter to what I think your typical position is.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 22
Partisans
Posted: 3/12/2012 11:29:20 AM
Ahhh...some good old fashioned word parsing! Yes you can dissect my statements, I'm sure most can view my outlook as a rant. Either you don't want to, won't concede the present situation doesn't work, and the vast majority of americans don't care.

"local rights"

My point was you are not going to march into washington and get change. Only by reforming the party's at the local level will it grow legs and expand.

"How does nationalizing issues support affecting change at the local level?"

Glad you asked that! Here, yes by all means, I will become partisan. A trend has developed, well maybe lets call it a plan. Since the republican primary's have started, an interesting statistic has emerged. Rich people have turned out in droves to vote for Mitt. A group who's support is always counted on, but have a spotty history in turning out to vote.

Now couple that with states, controlled by republicans, who are changing or trying to change voting laws. With new requirements or new ID rules, you can actually effect the election.

If you eliminate a number of poor voters, older voters, and students in college, traditionally these are democratic voters. You then can change the results in what promises to be a close election. Not by the will of the people, but by the will of those willing to bend fair, or gerrymander.

One man, one vote, is a part of our country. When state politics, affect the rights of voters, for the national election, it becomes a national issue, not a state one.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 23
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Partisans
Posted: 3/12/2012 11:40:21 AM

Ahhh...some good old fashioned word parsing! Yes you can dissect my statements, I'm sure most can view my outlook as a rant.


I was only saying that I agreed with some of what you posted. It isn't required that we have the same reasons.



One man, one vote, is a part of our country. When state politics, affect the rights of voters, for the national election, it becomes a national issue, not a state one.

This is true but not what I meant. A national election is a national issue. Of course. What your insurance company covers is a local issue not a national one. If a private group pulls funding of a private group for any reason it is a local issue not a national one. How does one affect change in healthcare if healthcare is nationalized? You must now lobby congress for it. How is it done now... You can lobby local laws or switch insurance or challenge it in many ways including medical review boards.

I am not trying to use your own words against you. I am just trying to understand how your words that sound like my words result in 180 degree conclusion.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 24
Partisans
Posted: 3/12/2012 11:59:17 AM
"how your words that sound like my words result in 180 degree conclusion."

Because I am a left side partisan, doesn't mean I agree with everything the left does. Unlike most on the right, who give me the impression that whatever is purported to be a core conservative ideal has to be correct, so they march lockstep. Let's say I am a "thinking partisan", perhaps that will make it easier for you.

"healthcare"

Ahhh, the healthcare issue. One of my favorites. I often have thought, of all the issues LBJ and a liberal agenda dealt with, this was the biggest glaring omission. He had the mandate, the votes in both houses, following JFK's death, to make sweeping changes, and he did, not all of which I agreed with. Alas he was still the biggest bag man in history, so I guess the big money got to him, and it was tabled.

If England, with a mountain of debt, probably as big or bigger than we now face(in 1945 size) was able to close after WW2, to enact a national healthcare law, we can't we? It works in most major western societies.

I will assume, most conservatives, have not embraced the elimination of pre-existing conditions, and still pay for all medical services, because that is what it was before this horrendous bill, right? Yeah...right!

If your trying to drag me into the man in the sky nonsense, there already is a thread about it, just reactivate it and I'll debate and post on there.
 Bishopboat
Joined: 9/3/2010
Msg: 25
Partisans
Posted: 3/12/2012 12:14:00 PM
They all have the same goal in the end, total control.
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