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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > New ID voter law? [CLOSED]      Home login  
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 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 1
New ID voter law? [CLOSED]Page 1 of 29    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29)
I've been watching the news very closely for the last several weeks, and apparently there is a new law requiring voters to issue a form of picture identification to participate in future general elections.

This is what I came across on the NCSL website.

Strict Photo ID: Voters must show a photo ID in order to vote. Voters who are unable to show photo ID at the polls are permitted to vote a provisional ballot, which is counted only if the voter returns to election officials within several days after the election to show a photo ID. At the beginning of 2011, there were just two states--Georgia and Indiana--with strict photo ID laws. Six states passed strict photo ID laws in 2011, although four are not currently in effect .That leaves four states with strict photo ID laws currently in effect.

And this was taken from the Atlantic:

The Republican lawmakers who are leading the fight for the restrictive legislation say they are doing so in the name of stopping election fraud -- and, really, who's in favor of election fraud? But the larger purpose and effect of the laws is to disenfranchise Hispanic voters, other minorities, and the poor -- most of whom, let's also be clear, vote for Democrats.

According to networks like MSNBC, and CNN, approximately 5 million American's will not be able to vote due to the new restriction.

Do you agree with the Republican party that this is done to prevent voter fraud, or is this a ruse to prevent voter turn out? Some feel that this could possibly harm President Obama in the upcoming GE. Thoughts?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 2
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 1:16:55 PM

Do you agree with the Republican party that this is done to prevent voter fraud, or is this a ruse to prevent voter turn out? Some feel that this could possibly harm President Obama in the upcoming GE. Thoughts?

It is all about voter suppression.

UN rights council delves into US voter I.D. laws
By Eric Shawn
Published March 14, 2012

The controversy over requiring voters to provide photo IDs has reached the world stage.

The United Nations Human Rights Council is investigating the issue of American election laws at its gathering on minority rights in Geneva, Switzerland.. This, despite the fact that some members of the council have only in the past several years allowed women to vote, and one member, Saudi Arabia, still bars women from the voting booth completely.

Officials from the NAACP are presenting their case against U.S. voter ID laws, arguing to the international diplomats that the requirements disenfranchise voters and suppress the minority vote...

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/14/un-delves-into-us-voter-id-laws/?really#ixzz1pJSf4R00
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 3
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 2:12:08 PM

Colour me dumb tonight but, any time I've ever voted in Canada I was required to show photo ID plus hand in my voter registration card that they'd sent me, so I don't get what the problem really is.

Stuff like this:


We conclude that the total number of registered voters who lack a driver's licenseor personal identification card issued by DPS could range from 603,892 to 795,955. The disparity between the percentages of Hispanics and non-Hispanics who lack these forms of identification ranges from 46.5 to 120.0 percent. That is, according to the state's own data, a Hispanic registered voter is at least 46.5 percent, and potentially 120.0 percent, more likely than a non-Hispanic registered voter to lack this identification. Even using the data most favorable to the state, Hispanics disproportionately lack either a driver's license or a personal identification card issued by DPS, and that disparity is statistically significant...

...Texas has no driver's license offices in almost a third of the state's counties. Meanwhile, close to 15 percent of Hispanic Texans living in counties without driver's license offices don't have ID. A little less than a quarter of driver's license offices have extended hours, which would make it tough for many working voters to find a place and time to acquire the IDs. Despite this, the Texas legislature struck an amendment that would have reimbursed low-income voters for travel expenses when going to apply for a voter ID, and killed another that would have required offices to remain open until 7:00 p.m. or later on just one weekday, and four or more hours at least two weekends...

...In 10 years, just 100 federal prosecutions and 50 state convictions -- in a colossal state with a population of more than 25 million people. You can do the math. You can be stupid and vote in America. You can be drunk and vote in America. You can be mentally insane and vote in America. You could vote in America for Snooki or Rod Blagojevich. Or, like tens of millions of your fellow citizens, you can choose not to vote at all. But if you don't have the means to get a driver's license, or if you cannot afford the time and money it takes to get certain other forms of government ID, you are out of luck? What a great country this is.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 4
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 2:14:22 PM
I agree with sweetness, I don't see what the problem is and I would rather show my ID and voter registration then risk someone else impersonating me and casting a vote in my name. Who doesn't have some kind of ID on them, a driver's licence at least should be enough to qualify.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 5
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 2:16:52 PM
In a country of 300 million people 86 people have been successfully prosecuted for voter fraud in 5 years, and as the article below shows most of those were not multiple votes but mistakes in registration, etc. There is absolutely no evidence of any coordinated efforts to sway elections:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?pagewanted=all

From the article:

"Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules, a review of court records and interviews with prosecutors and defense lawyers show. "

If you are truly a "conservative" with the REALLY pressing problems this country has numbers like this DO NOT merit concern let alone action. This is an OBVIOUS effort to supress the vote of traditionally Democratic contituencies, period. Anyone that "thinks" differently is WADR and IMO either an ignoramus or a deceitful schmuck.
 Casper66
Joined: 3/2/2007
Msg: 6
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 2:32:36 PM
I don't drive so no licence, I just called up and asked what I could use as alternative ID and was given the information and never had a problem voting, later I got a passport, if a person really wants to vote then do the paperwork and there will not be a problem.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 7
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 2:54:44 PM
the main fraud in the states that i can see is that you only have the two party system and one seems as rotten to the core as the other.

in the uk where there is not much difference between the liblab con mainstream partys electoral fraud does happen mainly due to postal voting. one
party in particular are prone to this abuse where sometimes 18 voters
are registered in a two bedroom flat


George Galloway, whose Respect Party has fought a long electoral grudge match in the borough with Labour since 2004, and the Conservative Party have highlighted entries on the electoral roll where up to 18 adults have been registered at flats containing just two or three bedrooms.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/police-investigate-electoral-fraud-claims-after-journalist-is-beaten-up-1962536.html

this quote is from the guardian

The Electoral Commission said: "Levels of fraud are relatively low. We have called on the government to introduce individual electoral registration and we're working on how we can do that in the future. That would require some sort of ID. We have also called on the government to look at the timescales because of the deadline for delivery of nominations and polling day."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/02/postal-voting-electoral-fraud

i dont think compulsory voting will ever be brought in to the uk because the folk
who dont bother voting just now, mainly white working class areas would return
candidates who represent partys the chattering classes fear.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 8
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 3:40:38 PM
It is a contradiction to the parties claim to oppose government regulation and invasions of peoples private lives, but it also fits in with the Republicans long-standing fear that they are doomed to be a minority party for all time.

More than anything else, though, I am convinced that they are doing it at this time, not because they genuinely fear voter fraud (as has been pointed out, there's no factual support for thinking that there are any significant numbers of people purposely voting fraudulently), but because they have to, in order to follow through on the "total paranoia concept" they've invested so heavily in, to win elections since 1975.

They put so much effort into playing the fear card over and over, that they have to do SOMETHING when they do get into power, that makes it appear that they really believed all that crap they said on the way up.

They don't want to do anything logical about terrorists smuggling weapons of mass destruction into the country, because that would cause an increase in import costs for their main contributors.

They don't want to ACTUALLY show direct support for the military rank and file, past saying their magic "thank you for your service" chant, because they want to keep the budget for human beings welfare and health as low as possible.

But pretending to see imminent voter fraud lurking around every corner, and requiring ID's from everyone is a way to make the lower and middle classes pay the entire cost of fulfilling a promise to their paranoid-addicted followers, while at the same time benefiting slightly from discouraging lots of lower class people from voting at all.
 Wolfpath
Joined: 1/24/2012
Msg: 9
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 5:40:54 PM
If your not a citizen you do not ahve the right to vote, it is in fact a crime to vote fraudulently or to entice illegal voting.
Kinda like "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION" . ..

Bout damned time someone actually enforced (correct and reasonable) laws in this country . . .
 vnufall
Joined: 3/6/2011
Msg: 10
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 6:10:43 PM
in some states prisoners can vote. i guess that id is ok........ if your poor, don't own a car, don't have a bank account, you might not have picture id. i think we all know who these laws are aimed at. not right.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 11
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 6:40:19 PM
The right of qualified voters to vote is as fundamental as any constitutional right Americans enjoy. But unqualified voters have no such right at all. Why should people who are qualified have to risk having their votes diluted--and their fundamental right infringed--through fraud? When the right in jeopardy is so important, and the cost of removing that jeopardy is so reasonable--remove it.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 12
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 7:05:12 PM

If your not a citizen you do not ahve the right to vote, it is in fact a crime to vote fraudulently or to entice illegal voting.
Kinda like "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION" . ..


And to the non Hispanics that can't vote in these states at this point, do they have the RIGHT to vote even though they lack a photo ID? Would you say the Republicans are correct in their assessment about CITIZENS without photo ID not being able to vote? Since your argument is about illegal immigrants, I would like your take on citizens who aren't able to vote at this rate thanks to the new laws.


Colour me dumb tonight but, any time I've ever voted in Canada I was required to show photo ID plus hand in my voter registration card that they'd sent me, so I don't get what the problem really is.


I'm not sure how things work in the remaining 46 states without the new law, but out here in California, a photo ID has to be shown. However, it is not a requirement so long as something else is presented. Like a check stub for example, and perhaps a utility bill.


or the 5 million Americans without ID that are of legal age, I have to say I don't really understand that either. Hell, many transactions nowadays require picture ID, including simple banking, so I fail to see why so many don't have a valid form of identification already.


Frankly, I can't wrap my mind around that, either. I received my first photo ID 6 years ago, and went on to get my driver license 2 years later.

I paid $31 for my new license, and being someone who has "very little" at this rate, I was still able to get a photo ID. With that being said, I'm not certain of why millions of voters are without photo ID but that is a damn good question.
 vnufall
Joined: 3/6/2011
Msg: 13
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 8:14:48 PM
i wasn't thinking about california and the immigrants...i was thinking about detroit and other poor urban areas. believe me they all were born and probably will die there because they can't get out because of lack of education, poverty and other socio-economic problems. yes they should an id with a pic, but a lot don't. don't tell me they can't vote. if prisoners in maine and vermont can vote so can these people.
 null_locus_accede
Joined: 6/25/2011
Msg: 14
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 8:31:31 PM
Colour me dumb tonight but, any time I've ever voted in Canada I was required to show photo ID plus hand in my voter registration card that they'd sent me, so I don't get what the problem really is. For the 5 million Americans without ID that are of legal age, I have to say I don't really understand that either. Hell, many transactions nowadays require picture ID, including simple banking, so I fail to see why so many don't have a valid form of identification already. JMO.


You don't have to have a photo ID to vote in Canada, but it's by far the easiest option since most provincial health cards have photos on them and they are accepted as proof when voting.
So in Canada it would seem different because already existing systems make not having some form of photo ID extremely rare, but it still isn't mandatory to have photo ID here and it really shouldn't be mandatory in the states either.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 15
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 8:38:00 PM

Colour me dumb tonight but, any time I've ever voted in Canada I was required to show photo ID plus hand in my voter registration card that they'd sent me, so I don't get what the problem really is.

Colour me dumb, but every time I've voted in Canada, I wasn't required to do that. In fact, you don't need to show picture ID in Canada to vote. The voter registration card is usually enough, though technically you have to have one piece of ID - it could even be a phone bill.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 16
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/16/2012 10:23:08 PM
This law has been in effect in the State of Indiana for quite awhile........when I worked at the BMV we had to be open on Election Day (they were closed on this day before it became a law) so those that needed an ID to vote were able to come in and get one.

And I'm in complete agreeance that it shouldn't be a big deal if you are a legal citizen.
Even those that don't drive need ID so it should be something you already have.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 17
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 5:57:58 AM
A big reason why there is such a fuss on both sides of this, is that many of the people who most strongly push for voter ID's, are also the folks who are adamant about never having Americans be required to carry proof of citizenship papers.

To be a little more clear, or perhaps more confusing, about my own attitude, I really don't mind showing an ID in order to vote. I agree completely with the idea that voting is a very valuable right and function.

My annoyance with the passage of laws about it, stems from my near certainty (from having listened directly to how they go about pushing for it) that the proponents are cynically after fulfilling agendas that have nothing to do with the simple logic of the importance of voting.

Further, there is a real monetary cost to things like this, in the cost of actually writing and putting the law on the books, in enforcing it, and in whatever all the citizens need to do to respond to it. That it would be pushed to the front of the agenda now, when there are so many other much more imperative things to be spending my tax dollars on, is an insult to why I used my vote to put these people into office to begin with.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 18
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 6:18:47 AM
Seems pretty easy to me...

"Come on down to Uncle Obama's Voting Shack and get your FREE photo id. Supplies are not limited. Just bring a buddy to vouch for you, a reasonably plausible check stub, Home Depot receipt with your signature or underwear with your name on it and you're in. No burkas!"

Voila. Problem solved. If at that point, it's too much to ask of poor people, minorities, criminals and illegals, then the terrorists have won. I mean, the republicans have won. No wait...tourists have won. No wait...terrorists.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 19
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 9:42:02 AM
Paul,

Registering to vote does not always require photo ID. I think that depends on where someone registers.

For example, I was able to register to vote at the DMV, while filling out a form to obtain my photo ID. However, you are correct about not needing ID when voting IF you have previously voted, and is not a new voter or perhaps not voting in a new county.

With that being said, I agree that this is a ploy by Republicans to slow down voter turnout for Democrats. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

And for the poster who keeps stating prisoners are allowed to vote in Maine...really? Interesting because in California, convicted felons and parolees don't have that right. What a shame...
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 20
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 10:16:19 AM
"The right of qualified voters to vote is as fundamental as any constitutional right Americans enjoy. But unqualified voters have no such right at all."

WOW!! A couple of you make me laugh! So a man, who is 82, does not drive, lives in a nursing home, has voted all his life, served his country in wartime. No longer is "qualified" because he lacks certain ID, and has no way to get it?

Sweetness, your posts astound me. Because you have an ID to get a blockbuster card, or you have one whereever you go, you can't imagine a situation, where someone lacks one. How about the example I just gave, or because offices that issue ID's have restrictive hours, or are not local to someone. Old people can't always arrange transportation, some people have to work and can't get time off, a student at college, who wishes to vote, but has no idea until they try and register, what they need.

There is an entire segment of our population, that exists without ID. It is not neccessary to live their lives. If they don't drive, use credit cards, travel internationally, get paid in cash(some jobs still do that, not issue checks). Maybe some of you in your smug suburban lifestyles, should attempt to see how the poor really live.

People have voted for years, now they must take time off of work, get certain documents, and travel some distance, to simply enforce their constitutional rights.

But the smug and assured are not doing this out of some vast voter fraud, it is an attempt to rig an election, by eliminating a segment of the population that would NEVER vote for them. I don't need more proof, than the fact that this happens only in republican dominated and controlled states!
 Ms Cheevious
Joined: 12/8/2008
Msg: 21
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History
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 12:03:13 PM

i wasn't thinking about california and the immigrants...i was thinking about detroit and other poor urban areas. believe me they all were born and probably will die there because they can't get out because of lack of education, poverty and other socio-economic problems. yes they should an id with a pic, but a lot don't. don't tell me they can't vote. if prisoners in maine and vermont can vote so can these people.


oh HELLLL yeah...these are EXACTLY the type individuals I want voting to decide the leader of the most powerful country in the world...dumbasses who can't figure out how to get out of their own damn neighborhood.



If someone is so ignorant, and lacking education that they can't get an ID on their own, then whatever befalls them, happens.

+ 1
 Worbug
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 22
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New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 2:54:26 PM
I fail to believe anyone to lazy to get a Photo ID is motivated in the slightest to vote. The only motivition they have is to piss and moan how they do not get everything for free.

No reason what so ever to not have a photo ID in this day and age, unless you are ILLEGAL!!!!!! and not paying taxes and contributing to society, flying under the radar.

If you are offended, oh well, go back to your country of origin and enter the US legaly and you problem is solved.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 23
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 5:34:55 PM
^^^

I don't see how any citizen in the US can live without photo ID.

Identification is practically needed up every alley.

It seems as if we always need to flash our photo ID for something.

I think laziness maybe the best term to describe it. Even so, I still don't agree with the restrictions. Perhaps if voter fraud was a legit reason, I could understand. But cabin threw voter fraud right out the window when he posted that link.
 judydentures
Joined: 2/27/2012
Msg: 24
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 5:46:01 PM
It's entirely reasonable to expect that voters have proper identification. You need an ID for many things, so why is this an issue? No legit voter would be without an ID.

In the end, your vote isn't worth much anyway, but that's another topic.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 25
New ID voter law?
Posted: 3/17/2012 6:52:29 PM
I don't see how any citizen in the US can live without photo ID.

So just because you do not see it, does that mean that there is not a chance that there are people who are legitimate citizens and due to these laws will not be able to vote for various reason, none of which, are a fault of their own?

There are many people in the USA that live well below the poverty line and are legitimate hard working citizens that deserve a chance to have their voice heard and tricks like making it hard to obtain a photo ID along with new laws requiring them, when there is no legitimate reason for it, is disingenuous at best.



People saying that it is their own fault does not really seem like a nice thing to do to a fellow citizen if you ask me. I see many people that say they want America to be what it use to be and go back to what made it so great, but will turn their back on a fellow citizen.

I guess for them it is; United We Stand Divided We Fall*.


*provided you can get id and think the same way as we do, if not, screw you
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