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Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 2
Beam me up ScottyPage 1 of 1    
Since all atoms of the same thing are exactly the same, one carbon atom is no different from another as long as it's typical carbon. It should be possible to both take apart and put together in an identical manner, a human.

You go first.. "Jim, I don't trust that dang thing.."

The very act of measuring all of the atoms and their electron positions/wave/energy levels would likely alter them, so that any reassembling from that data WOULD be a "different" human being, and NOT the original...

"He's dead, Jim.."
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 3
Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:36:59 PM
I loved how they treated it in "The Prestige"- the character would "teleport", but the original wouldn't go away. In utter fear, he immediately shot the doppelganger, and proceeded to use it for a magic show, killing "himself" each time....though he was never entirely sure if he was a copy, or the other- meaning he wasn't sure if he was going to die each time....

That'd bother me too....I mean, even if they perfect teleportation, how could you be certain you didn't just die, and what goes on the other end is an entirely new lifeform that is identical to you in every way...
Joined: 1/14/2012
Msg: 4
Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:09:19 PM
I know for a fact if an identical "me" was created, I would make the other "me" do the dam dishes. In the long run it probably wouldn't work out so well because the other "me" would end up hating "me" for being so dam lazy and since I know myself fairly well "me" would be plotting against me all the time...........good lord netgypsyLynn, one of me is all I can handle. Let alone a woman having to put of with two of me. I don't even want to begin to think of the hateful love triangle I'd be caught up in........
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5
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Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:49:55 PM
What this actually goes directly to, is the basic question of whether we are, as living beings, a mechanical construct of atoms, and our very consciousness and memories are all mechanical things, or is life itself something distinct from the machinery?

If I follow the idea that I am the mechanism, then I would expect that each of me would look out from each "device," after such a re-creation, and feel entirely myself. At that point, we might finally find out what it is to be a perfect twin. Are there any magical mental linkages?

If, however, it is not the mechanism that is the person, then the replica would be dead. Also, if there were any shortcomings in the replication process (there are so far no perfect processes that we have been able to carry out before, so I would expect this to be just as imperfect), I would expect to see recognizable deterioration taking place with each iteration.
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 6
Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 3/25/2012 9:41:03 PM

how could you be certain you didn't just die

I think the first you does die. The second you is a brand new you with all your memories; so the second you might think it is the original you, but it wouldn't be you.
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 7
Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 3/26/2012 5:39:02 AM
The big question isn't whether or not the 'new you' is identical with the 'old you' ... the carbons would, indeed, be the same in both. The real question is: How many copies of 'you' could be made before 'You 2' suffered from replicative failure ... ? Would the symptoms be similar to Alzheimer's, or would the 'pieces 'n parts' begin to look different as the bonds rearranged themselves to conform with the greater or lesser number of atoms present after 'n' reconfigurations ... ?

"Dammit, Jim, I'm the original, not the duplicate!" ...

And who can forget "Help me! Help meeeeeeeeeee!" ... "Quick, Henry! The Flit!" ...
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 8
Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 3/26/2012 5:28:47 PM
ASSUMING any of this was possible, for the fun of the discussion, I'll even assume they are perfect copies. because otherwise, we're just getting into what's possible, logistics and whatnot and if we're doing that, why bother even going past the scanning process much less the deconstruction and reconstruction.

If they are ALL perfect copies, then they would ALL be YOU. Each one would assume they are the real one and for all physical evidence available, they'd be right.

I do not buy into this whole degredation with each copy thing. If it's perfect, then there is no degredation. Its an outdated plot device in science fiction but in today's world of digital, degredation is hardly a reality when it comes to information storage. We're assuming the raw materials will be copied with exact percission so there's no reason to assume the information used will lower in quality any more than an email would.

AND... if we're using star trek as an example, when "teleported", the original dies immediately, or at least is destroyed then recreated elsewhere. Every character on star trek is a copy of the original after they "transport" once and they get destroyed and copied from the previous copy every time they "TRANSPORT".
Joined: 6/17/2011
Msg: 10
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Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 4/1/2012 4:28:18 PM
well it could happen just like in star trek that jim was a good guy and then made a bad guy the episode was called turnabout intruder
many thanks
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 11
Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 4/4/2012 4:16:11 PM
Not to scoff, but what I find amusing about all this is that Gene Roddenbery didn't invent "beaming up" as a future technology preview, he did it to reduce the special effects budget for his TV show . It was very expensive to have ships taking off and landing, so the clever Roddenbery skipped the process entirely !!
Joined: 3/20/2012
Msg: 12
Beam me up Scotty
Posted: 4/9/2012 2:35:18 PM
No it's not entirely that simple. There are numerous forms of the same atom ( One reason is that there are different Isotopes where the weak and strong nuclear forces matter). And You cannot just split molecules and rejoin them. There are quantum numbers to take into account, and most importantly the pauli exclusion principle. On top of that, location of mass is not preserved nor does the math of location even exist as a medium, due to relativity (on a macro scale). Some atomic and chemical processes are one way (like the weak nuclear force and reduction), while others are two way (oxidation and ph). This makes it impossible. The only way to so far put one body back together in a practical way is to 'grow' it. And the weak nuclear force simply makes teleportation a sure doubt, when dealing with mass. If the weak nuclear force breaks down because of taking apart the building blocks of a human being, they are eternally gone.
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