Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 oloroso
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 1
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual DisturbancesPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
How do religions, other than Christian/Judaic confront paranormal/spiritual disturbances (hauntings/"posessions")?
The Muslim or Hindu cultures, for example, are not going to walk into such a disturbance armed with the bible and holy water.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2
view profile
History
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 4:19:10 AM
I have no idea, but I do know that different cultures and belief systems see different things as BEING "paranormal/spiritual disturbances." Therefore, I would bet that many things that, for example, a Christian might take to be "bad spiritual goings on," might well be run-of-the-mill expected nonsense to another belief system.

Some human problem behaviors have been thought of as being due to demonic possession in the past, are now recognized as tragic, but mundanely physical brain defects. That sort of thing.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 3
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 5:51:42 AM
hindu culture generally views these things as part of the natural fabric of the universe. so does buddhist culture, especially tibetan buddhism which is built upon an older, pre-buddhist shamanic worldview called bon. what they both share in common is a recognition that what we typically perceive with our ordinary senses is more like an epidermis and less like the throbbing meat and gristle that lie just beneath the surface. in that regard, the paranormal isn't a disturbance as much as it is just another phenomenon, sometimes an important one that is deliberately sought out because it contains useful information, and a fairly common epecially to those engaged in certain kinds of meditation. native american culture really isn't very different. of course islam has the concept of djinns (the source of the word "genie") but i don't know too much about those.

why do you ask, are the wrathful dieties after you and what did you do to piss them off?
 What_He_Said
Joined: 1/11/2012
Msg: 4
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 6:28:02 AM
A rolled up piece of newspaper seems to work especially well against Class IV apparitions.

As for other portions of the original question....I leave that answer to those with better knowledge on the subject than myself.
 lightbrownsuga2luv
Joined: 12/1/2011
Msg: 5
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 8:02:20 AM
All I can say, looking at your pic, something don't look right, I believe in God was raised in church I know what the Holly Sprit is.

So, with that being said, I could not look at your pic for long because something is not right, if you were around me, I would be praying hard, or get the hell away from ya.

I don't claim to be all sprirtual, but I do know when I feel something and see something that don't seem right.
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 6
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 9:23:56 AM
confront paranormal/spiritual disturbances (hauntings/"posessions")?

Many modern rational secular societies use a prescription for amoxicillin or azithromax for most of those common intestinal disturbances..
After the isolated eccentric self-described warlocks/crazies/schizo/5150 mental cases have been ruled out...

Human "relationships" are amazingly complex enough, that nobody should further confuse themselves or others around them by attributing anything to someone's so-called paranormal "powers"...
 oloroso
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 7
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 12:26:24 PM
Cowgirl,
I suppose I'm seeking that useful information that you mentioned the Hindu delve into sometimes.

Thank you for your sincere response, as opposed to the other satirical responses. It actually puts things more into perspective, for me anyway. Christian and Islamic religion seems to be have a lot of fear-based issues. Not to say that there should be nothing to fear in the spirit realm or other dimensions and phenomenon.
 oloroso
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 8
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 1:06:23 PM
Cowgirl,
I am also essentially interested in what to expect when I die. I don’t believe in heaven and hell, and I DO believe that the energy that we run on in this life does not die when our human bodies die.
Some spiritualists can be quite convincing in their claims of contacting deceased loved ones, etc.; “ghost stories” in general. Other paranormal “experts” say that non-human entities simply take on the characteristics of deceased humans who died in an especially “dark realm” of existence. Apparently, just to wallow in that dark energy.
Note that I am not postulating any of this as an ultimate truth. Just curious and trying to learn. Anyone who is reading this and wishes to satirize my curiosity is being ridiculously petty. Though, if what you’re thinking is genuinely funny… go for it!
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 9
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 1:40:10 PM
Not to worry.
If you are aware of your own existence now....
You will still exist and be aware when you drop your body.

As to in what way,
depends on your own personal growth and experience.
Ultimate..beyond this life truth... may be universal,
but we experience it individually.


 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 10
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 1:44:21 PM

I am also essentially interested in what to expect when I die. I don’t believe in heaven and hell, and I DO believe that the energy that we run on in this life does not die when our human bodies die.

From a biological stand point when you die your brain will be flooded with DMT.

So if you want to know what it will be like when you die, get your hands on some DMT (N-Dimethyltryptamine) , find a safe place, consume and have a couple of friends monitor while you find out.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 11
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 2:03:23 PM
oloroso, the tibetan buddhists have an especially rich and complex tradition embracing the post-bodily death experience that goes back a few thousand years at least. they call it "traveling the bardo" and the basic premise is to focus on *these* sorts of visual experiences as opposed to *those* after you die so that you end up in the right place or at least, are prepared to deal with the scary bits should they arise.

in the hindu/buddhist traditions it's said there are different bodily openings through which the soul may disincarnate upon death, depending on one's level of consciousness. the basic concept is that if you leave through your asshole it's because you are one and are immediately destined for some lower order of existence in the next reincarnation. of course even tibetan buddhists are good at cracking jokes, but most westerners don't recognize buddhist humor which tends to be pretty dark bordering on morbid. anyway, it's said that the most advanced way to leave your body is through the top of the head (fontanel). there is a specific tibetan buddhist meditation practice called phowa which is supposed to physically open up the fontantel to pave the way for leaving one's body in this manner. advanced practitioners are supposed to be able to leave their body at will.

if you read any timothy leary, you may remember how he capitalized on the concept of traveling the bardo. although there are things i like about timothy leary, i wouldn't exactly accept him as an authority on the tibetan buddhist tradition. also i don't think the tibetan buddhist way is the only way to face death in an enlightened manner. anyway, it requires a certain amount of dedication that most westerners are simply unprepared to practice.

you might be interested in the writings of neville goddard who was sort of a modern visionary. he quotes a lot of william blake (another wonderful visionary) and believes that there are "worlds within worlds"; basically that reality exists at different frequencies just like radio waves penetrating space-time without ever interfering with each other, and that death is just like stepping into another one of these realities. don't be put off by his frequent use of biblical references.... he recognizes it as pure allegory, cant language and veiled references meant to describe man's *inner* experience as he travels towards enlightenment. fun stuff.
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 12
view profile
History
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/27/2012 3:06:10 PM
@ OP,
This doesn't explain everything, but it does cover vampires, werewolves and goblins... and blue people.
http://www.oddee.com/item_84847.aspx
All these things you're talking about are born of fear.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 13
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/28/2012 11:34:37 AM
OPie, lol! For *me* it's simply easier to believe I go on, as is, sans this rickety vehicle we call a body, than to imagine dark spirits checking out the Akashic Records in order to mimic other spirits' lives. . . . Occam's Razor.

Practice of meditation will, soon or late, get you the *first hand* experience you seek.

Decades ago, I was struck, reading Raymond Moody's Life After Life, how *similar* after death/near death experiences were, cross culturally. Yet each religion experienced it as related to their particular pre-death belief system. E.g., the "being of light" which Christians immediately identified as Jesus. Jews, however, did NOT. No Damn, I was wrong moments. Jews identified the being as an angel -- easy does it: clearly the Being Itself is NOT announcing: Here I be: Jesus Christ. . . .
 oloroso
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 14
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/28/2012 11:58:11 AM
It seems a bit obvious that near death experiences, even the brain's final activity before actual death, is related to the persons experiences in life. Then, there must be (???) a new dimension that is truly universal, not just subjective to what we learned and experienced in this life.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 15
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/28/2012 1:11:45 PM

Then, there must be (???) a new dimension that is truly universal, not just subjective to what we learned and experienced in this life.

No.

You are in a drug induced dream.

Nothing more.
 fillyphilly
Joined: 5/12/2012
Msg: 16
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/28/2012 4:34:12 PM
oloroso, your philosophy sounds most Buddhist. Maybe you should do some independent reading and come to your own conclusions since nobody really knows until it's too late to discuss it with the rest of us. You're right that there's a lot of fear in Christianity which I don't buy into. Spiritualism is interesting to me as well, it's a kinder, gentler view of spirit. These are interesting topics.
 Sanxioned
Joined: 5/14/2012
Msg: 17
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/29/2012 6:52:33 AM
In Islam pretty much every kind of paranormal experience is attributed to the actions of Djinn/Jinn. In a nutshell, the Jinn are a race of creatures, made before mankind. They were forged out of fire (humans from mud, angels from light) and Allah wasn't particularly impressed by them. Like humans they have free-will. However, when mankind (Adam) was made, and God ordered all beings to bow before them, many of the Jinn refused - including Iblis (Satan). Their hate for mankind is supposedly what leads them to trickery and vice directed at humanity. This can take the form of harmless annoyances like misplaced items, or nightmarish experiences. In Islamic culture, this is rare. Naturally, Jinn-related events are documented more in Muslim-dominant countries.

Supposedly the Jinn can shape-shift, assuming the form of someone you know in order to seduce you or lead to astray. Their focus is to take mankind off the path of Heaven and goodness. There is usually some quality of a shifted Jinn that will give it away. For example, fingers bending the opposite direction, or feet being switched up (right feet where the left should be). Also, they supposedly can only enter your home if they are "let" in. This doesn't stop some of the more aggressive ones though.

Personally, I don't quite believe in it all; hence I keep saying "supposedly". Everything I know is from my dad, who has read and translated the Quran multiple times, and from some of my more religious yet educated friends and family. The Religion section in your local library will prove helpful here. However, having seen a flaming arm (yeah, I know) reach for me when I was 11 through a window two stories up sort of scared me shitless and has left me stumped ever since. I still remember the heat from it and my sister pulling me away.

There are certain verses in the Quran, like Surah Al-Naas, which address the Jinn directly. Reciting these outloud is believed to ward them away if they are close. I remember my mother and aunt reciting a HUGE verse (it lasted about 20 minutes) in my room after my experience with the flaming arm (sounds so absurd but good lord it was horrifying).

Hope this was informative, heh. I personally love studying responses to paranormal events in different cultures.
 musicfellow38
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 18
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/29/2012 12:29:40 PM

Many modern rational secular societies use a prescription for amoxicillin or azithromax for most of those common intestinal disturbances..
After the isolated eccentric self-described warlocks/crazies/schizo/5150 mental cases have been ruled out...

Human "relationships" are amazingly complex enough, that nobody should further confuse themselves or others around them by attributing anything to someone's so-called paranormal "powers"...


If there was a "like" button next to this quote, I would have clicked it.
 musicfellow38
Joined: 2/17/2011
Msg: 19
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/29/2012 12:40:30 PM
Oloroso,

I posted this quote in your other thread but as it seems to be the same thread, I figured I would post it here too. Also, I mean no disrespect. I may sound like I'm lecturing or poking at you specifically here Oloroso. I'm not. I'm actually trying to appeal to your curiosity because you have perfectly legitimate questions... This is just a little rant that applies to many who do not question ENOUGH and something I also had to figure out for myself. I'm also not convinced you're not just asking these questions to make a greater point. If that's the case, I'm preaching to the choir. None the less, I hope this is taken as intended.

These questions remind me of the movie "Stand By Me" where the kids have a discussion about who would win in a fight... Superman or Mighty Mouse. One kid speaks up "Mighty Mouse is just a cartoon... Superman'sa real Guy!". to which another kid replies "Yeah, I suppose... but it would be a good fight though!"

I've had similar discussions as a youth and until this day... How does spider-man deal with telephone wires? Answer? He doesn't. There is NO SPIDERMAN. If A vampire has "no breath", how can they talk? Answer? They don't. There ARE NO VAMPIRES.

You may as well ask how a Muslum would deal with a vampire. Could they create water to burn one? this would be a perfectly legitimate question if Vampires have been observed to be burnt by christian holy water but unaffected by unblessed water. However, since this has never actually been observed in reality, there is no need to ask logistical questions on anything else. There are no vampires to throw any water at anyway, holy water or not.

You have very good questions of logistics. I would have them too if ghosts and demons or other "supernatural" things were observed in reality to be affected by things liek holy water and the bible. But they haven't outside of literature and fiction. If they HAVE, and have been studied and proven to react to holy water, just do the same test again with muslim water and you'll have yrou answer. That's why science is great. You just never know until you try it out.

If you're just assuming ghosts and other "supernatural" things exist based on you own personal beliefs, just go the extra step and simply make up any answer that best suits your belief. Maybe only the bible and holy water work or maybe Muslims, hindu's etc., have their own solution. Who knows... but if you see these easy answers as problems and feel the need to question them, then go the extra step and go back and ask the same questions about ghosts themselves... if you're inconsistent on when and what you question, you'll continue coming up with these conflicts. If you're consistent, it will probably all start to make sense.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 20
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/29/2012 2:07:37 PM

It seems a bit obvious that near death experiences, even the brain's final activity before actual death, is related to the persons experiences in life. Then, there must be (???) a new dimension that is truly universal, not just subjective to what we learned and experienced in this life.


Having actually *read* Moody, it was not that obvious to me, at all. Atheists see a doorway/"golden gate" just like Christians, Jews, and others do. They, too, see a "being of light" and have a tunnel effect. Moody's first work was done *before* all this hit pop culture: interviews with peeps who strongly felt that they might be the *only* one with such an experience. It was an interesting read then, and was twenty years later. Might even be worth a third read. Not much is. But in the end -- you ONLY have what you do comprehend with your own heart, eh?

The pseudo-scientific "debunkers" are wanting to claim that lack of oxygen leads to. . . . If that *were* true, NDEs could be replicated by holding one's breath. . . . And they can't be reliably replicated. Much less on demand. And there are real and verifiable things that happen to people who have had them. Especially children, who have had them early.

My own experiences, though neither NDEs nor OBEs have been singular enough, and totally unexpected that for years, I thought I was alone in it. Not one thing in my upbringing/culture prepared me for my first "oceanic" experience. Nor do I have a "scientific" explanation. I just know they began when I was a teen, lasted for a decade and went away. To reappear, so to speak, a few years after I began meditating. Still can in no way *guarantee* or *predict* when it will happen, nor with what magnitude.

Of course, YMMV.
 fillyphilly
Joined: 5/12/2012
Msg: 21
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/29/2012 2:28:28 PM
Hey Sanx,
Thanks for the explanation of djinn. I was always curious about this aspect in Islam since I know little about it. Very interesting and informative. You'll make a great teacher some day.
Woob what is an "oceanic" experience?
 Sanxioned
Joined: 5/14/2012
Msg: 22
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/29/2012 4:40:12 PM
Thanks Filly, I hope I will too. I told the story of my experience in ridiculous detail to one of my practice teaching classes (grade 7s) and a few later told me they asked their parents to move their bed away from the window, hah! If you want to know more or read about some interesting encounters, visit http://www.jinndemons.com/ Some of the information might be open to vast interpretation, but it's mainly the stories that are interesting! Enjoy!
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 23
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/30/2012 10:59:33 AM
Filly ~~

Oceanic Experience
oceanicexperience.blogspot.com/
oceanic experience. The experience of being at one with the entire universe and a feeling of meaningful purpose to all existence, often with feelings of ...


Oceanic feeling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_feeling
Oceanic feeling is a psychological term coined by Romain Rolland and popularized by ... This is a feeling that can only be experienced in totality and not without ...

Lorenz ~~ gotcha! I've found that *looking* for them is as destructive as *fighting against* them. None of mine now happen unless I'm meditating.

Might try checking out www.monroeinstitute.org/
 oloroso
Joined: 2/16/2011
Msg: 24
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/30/2012 7:26:30 PM
Aristotle,
I recently saw a film about DMT. Even from a scientific perspective, it seemed they were saying that the chemical is a sort of vehicle for our energy to migrate to another dimension. We can visit that dimension by ingesting the chemical from plant form... or we can activate the chemical already in us by way of deep meditation. When we die, our brain is induced with the chemical, like you said, but at that point it is a catalyst for our universal (undying) energy to go to another dimension. (???)
 fillyphilly
Joined: 5/12/2012
Msg: 25
Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances
Posted: 5/31/2012 5:38:21 AM
You can get there through meditation. The oceanic thing is interesting. I'll look up the links. I understand people's scepticism. I would think a lot of things were fantasy or impossible had I not experienced them firsthand.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Confronting Paranormal/Spiritual Disturbances