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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?      Home login  
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 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
The Neo-cons are desperately trying to make him talk!!

Wouldn't it be (LMAO) funny if the Attorney General is not talking about something "Dumbya" did so as not to expose "Shrubbie"?
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=430512&CategoryId=14091
Excerpt
Citing Justice Department sources, CBS News reported on a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms gun-running probe known as “Operation Wide Receiver” that was launched in 2006 and 2007 and which purportedly allowed firearms to be sold to known straw purchasers in and around Tucson, Arizona.

The revelation comes amid the fallout from another botched ATF operation, “Fast and Furious,” under which some 2,000 weapons were allowed to “walk” into Mexico between 2009 and 2010.

Grassley, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said in a written statement that the Bush-era program merits an investigation.

“(W)hether it’s Operation Fast and Furious, Operation Wide Receiver, or both, it’s clear that guns were walked, and people high in the Justice Department knew about it,” Grassley, one of the chief Fast and Furious investigators in Congress, said.

“There’s no excuse for walking guns, and if there are more operations like this, Congress and the American people need to know,” he said.

The idea behind Fast and Furious was to trace the weapons to powerful drug traffickers in Mexico, but once it got underway ATF agents realized they had no dependable way to keep track of the guns, which eventually began appearing at crime scenes on both sides of the border.


Here we go again ... sure looks like a political witch hunt similar to those of the Clinton era all over again! This is nothing more than a contemptible attack.

The Neo-Cons will grasp at anything to bring this President down ... even if it means they have to involve the "High-Functioning MORON" in it.

I guarantee that if it comes down to that ... they'll drop it like a hot skillet.
 hurdclifford1
Joined: 8/5/2008
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/20/2012 5:09:47 PM
I was hearing about this today and I wondered how long it would take to blame it on Bush.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/20/2012 5:51:29 PM

... and I wondered how long it would take to blame it on Bush.
It's a wonder it took the Republicans this long to blame the gun-running on President Obama.

The "gun running" started back in 2006 (Shrubbie's watch). If the Bush-era program merits an investigation, why are those people from back then not being called in to testify?

There were three previous programs under the Bush administration. Who was in charge of those programs? Why are they not being brought into the investigation?

It's against federal law for Holder to release the documents the committee is asking for yet they are going to hold him in contempt?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 4
What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/20/2012 8:11:04 PM
^

The "gun running" started back in 2006 (Shrubbie's watch). If the Bush-era program merits an investigation, why are those people from back then not being called in to testify?


Once Obama got in office; it would have been his (and only his) responsibility to put an end to this "operation" as soon as he (or holder) found out about it! You can't let this continue for years and years under his watch and then all of a sudden decide to "blame" GwB's adminstration for its inception and continuation!

Besides Obama has more worries about the so-called 'white house' leaks concerning what was considered classified information. Was it his doing or that of his detractors?

Only the shadow knows!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 6:20:04 AM

You can't let this continue for years and years under his watch and then all of a sudden decide to "blame" GwB's adminstration for its inception and continuation!
As I said ...
There were three previous programs under the Bush administration. Who was in charge of those programs? Why are they not being brought into the investigation?

So ...
WHO was in charge of the earlier programs?
WHY aren't they being brought into the investigation?
WHAT can they tell the committee that Holder can't?
WHY not let them speak for what they did instead of pinning it on Holder/Obama?

This was a continuing program that Holder put a stop to. I think the WHOLE program should be investigated ... not just part of it.

This is nothing more than a witch hunt in an election year to smear the man in the White House Mitch McConnell style ... "Top Priority ... Make Obama a One Term President."
 Ready4SomethingFun
Joined: 3/17/2008
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 8:23:43 AM

This is nothing more than a witch hunt in an election year to smear the man in the White House Mitch McConnell style ... "Top Priority ... Make Obama a One Term President."


It will give the libs something or someone to blame (other than the fact Obama's clueless) when he loses in November!!!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 10:05:40 AM

BTW the earlier programs under Bush didn't get one of our boarder guards killed. This one did.
Where does it say that the gun from the Obama administration program (as a continuation of the Bush programs) is what killed an American?

Please show that the gun used to kill the American was not from the "Bush programs".

Is this just an issue because an American was killed?

OR

Are we also concerned that Mexicans were being killed?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 11:29:32 AM
Again ...
Is this just an issue because an American was killed? OR Are we also concerned that Mexicans were being killed?

Why isn't the GOP pursuing justice for the hundreds of Mexicans who’ve died at the hands of cartel members armed with guns our ATF let walk across the border?

I think Nancy Pelosi is right when she said ...
"... the ongoing investigations into the Obama Justice Department’s Fast and Furious operation are nothing more than distractions.
... no coincidence that Mr. Holder is also the official in charge of preventing voter suppression and enforcing civil rights laws.
... shameful display of abuse of power.
the very same people who are holding him in contempt are part of a nationwide scheme to suppress the vote.”

“Contempt of Congress? To frivolously use that really important vehicle to undermine the person who’s assigned to stop the voter suppression in our country, I’m telling you, this is connected. It is no accident,” she said.

\/\/\/\/\/
Exactly how is this tied to the removal of INELIGIBLE voters of the voters rolls?
That's apparent ...


And why would anyone want someone that is INELIGIBLE to vote to do so,don't you want a fair election?
I have nothing against a fair election ... as long as they don't prevent registered voters from voting.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 6:51:33 PM

... the GOP is the only ones that are trying to get to the facts. Eric withholder is the one stopping the GOP from obtaining the facts.
Then why don't they call in their buddies? You know, the guys who started it?

Better yet ... why not just get the "High-Functioning MORON" to come in and tell what was going on?

\/\/\/\/\/


Then why don't they call in their buddies? You know, the guys who started it?

Better yet ... why not just get the "High-Functioning MORON" to come in and tell what was going on?

Because the wrong doing didn't happen on Bush's watch

PROVE IT. Show where it DID "happen on Bush's watch".
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 8:00:51 PM


Better yet ... why not just get the "High-Functioning MORON" to come in and tell what was going on?

Because the wrong doing didn't happen on Bush's watch

PROVE IT. Show where it DID NOT "happen on Bush's watch".

I meant to post ... DID NOT "happen on Bush's watch".

I'm not interested in anyone's "interpretation" on what AG Holder said or did not say ... prove that it did not happen on Bush's watch.

I think "Dumbya" would know ... right?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 8:16:31 PM
I'm listening to the TV report that no one in the Obama administration had been informed that the "gun-walking" was occurring. Apparently, the ATF agents in Phoenix and the Arizona US Attorney's Office was working on their own.

Perhaps they thought it was something to continue since their previous boss was so hot on it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandalThe report concluded that there was no evidence of involvement by high-ranking appointees at the Justice Department in "gunwalking." Rather, "Operation Fast and Furious was the latest in a series of fatally flawed operations run by ATF agents in Phoenix and the Arizona U.S. Attorney's Office."
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 12
What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/21/2012 10:05:40 PM

The report concluded that there was no evidence of involvement by high-ranking appointees at the Justice Department in "gunwalking."


The report is old. This is breaking news:


Holder retracts claim Bush team knew about Fast and Furious
June 20, 2012

In it's second major retraction over its version of the the gun-walking scandal, the Justice Department has retracted Attorney General Eric Holder's charge in a hearing last week that his Bush administration predecessor had been briefed on the affair.

In a memo just released by Sen. Chuck Grassley, the Iowa senator reveals that Holder also didn't apologize to former Attorney General Michael Mukasey for dragging him into the Fast & Furious scandal that is headed for a major legal clash and likely contempt of Congress charge against Holder.

According to Grassley's memo, Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.

Here is the full text of the Grassley memo:

To: Reporters and Editors

Re: Second retraction of Fast and Furious Assertions

Da: Wednesday, June 20, 2012

The Justice Department has retracted a second statement made to the Senate Judiciary Committee. During a hearing last week, Attorney General Eric Holder claimed that his predecessor, then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey, had been briefed about gunwalking in Operation Wide Receiver. Now, the Department is retracting that statement and claiming Holder "inadvertently" made that claim to the Committee. The Department's letter failed to apologize to former Attorney General Mukasey for the false accusation. This is the second major retraction the Justice Department has made in the last seven months. In December 2011, the Department retracted its claim that the ATF had not allowed illegally purchased guns to be trafficked to Mexico.

In addition, the Justice Department released only one page of additional material prior to the Attorney General's meeting on Capitol Hill on Tuesday. It is a page of handwritten notes by a public affairs specialist for the Deputy Attorney General, which the Department says it "just recently discovered." The notes indicate that when Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein met with senior ATF officials on April 28, 2010, regarding the problem of gunwalking in Wide Receiver, the Deputy Attorney General's public affairs specialist also attended the meeting.

The notes indicate that Fast and Furious was also a topic discussed at the meeting, in addition to Wide Receiver. These notes further corroborate contemporaneous emails in 2010 that show Criminal Division Chief Lanny Breuer and Weinstein seemed to have been more concerned about the press implications of gunwalking than they were about making sure ATF ended the practice. The notes also undermine the claim that senior DOJ officials failed to "make the connection" between the gunwalking in Wide Receiver--which Breuer admitted to knowing about--and gunwalking in Fast and Furious. In fact, both cases were discussed by senior Department leadership and senior ATF leadership.

Grassley made the following comment on these developments.

"This is the second time in nearly seven months that the Department has gotten its facts wrong about gunwalking. Attorney General Holder accused Attorney General Mukasey, without producing any evidence, of having been briefed on gunwalking in Wide Receiver. The case Attorney General Mukasey was briefed on, Hernandez, is fundamentally different from both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious since it involved cooperation with the Mexican government. Attorney General Holder's retraction should have included an apology to the former Attorney General.

"In his eagerness to blame the previous administration, Attorney General Holder got his facts wrong. And his tactic didn't bring us any closer to understanding how a bad policy evolved and continued. Bad policy is bad policy, regardless of how many administrations carried it out. Ironically, the only document produced yesterday by the Department appears to show that senior officials in the Attorney General's own Department were strategizing about how to keep gunwalking in both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious under wraps."


http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder-retracts-claim-bush-team-knew-about-fast-and-furious/article/2500157
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 13
What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/22/2012 8:05:26 AM
In all fairness, presidents rarely have anything to do with the Justice Dept(DOJ) other than having to appoint the Attorney General(AG). Judiciary is judiciary - the presidency is the presidency. They operate seperately of eachother.

Obama generally had nothing to do with Fast & Furious, much like Bush had nothing to do with any DOJ operations while he was president. Unless they were clued in on something specific, it was seperate business as usual.

The DOJ is a complex web of no less than 50 primary agencies, sub-departments, & bureaus, & countless secondary offices all intertwined into a massive federal dept. At present, AG Holder is CEO of this whole operation.....not much different than the President being the CEO of the US.

Of course , the usual hand puppets must Bush-ize everything, even though Bush or Obama has no control over DOJ, other than Bush apoinntee A G Mukasey, or Obama apointee AG Holder. The Senate internal investigation shows that even Attorney General Mukasey wasnt briefed on Fast & Furious. The BATF, a DOJ bureau, handled it as a specific functioning segment of the DOJ.

With that said, I will answer some earlier questions:


WHO was in charge of the earlier programs?


The BATF., which is an agency of the federal gov't. BATF is a bureau within the DOJ, administered by the DOJ.


WHY aren't they being brought into the investigation?


They were. Read post #19 containing Senate investigation data.


WHAT can they tell the committee that Holder can't?


Nothing. They have told what they could, which is why Holder is in trouble...for interfering & possibly now withholding info on a federal agency under his ultimate control. Holder, as AG, is the only one responsible for any & all info now as he is the official "talking head".


WHY not let them speak for what they did instead of pinning it on Holder/Obama?


They have, they are called internal departmental investigations, which is how we found out about guns being lost south of the border during Fast & Furious, then turning up at crime scenes that resulted in federal agents being murdered by the very firearms that were planted by the BATF, a bureau within the DOJ, AG Eric Holder, CEO.


Why isn't the GOP pursuing justice for the hundreds of Mexicans who’ve died at the hands of cartel members armed with guns our ATF let walk across the border?


That is the job of AG Holder, head of DOJ, the man in charge of the Justice Dept.

Holder is ultimately responsible, but since he was & is now acting like a High-Functioning MORON, oblivious to WTF was going on, tapping pencils & making paper airplanes while holding the office of the AG while this happened.....much like what you say about anything & everything Bush-related, it falls on AG Holder, head of DOJ, the man in charge of the Justice Dept, which ultimately controls BATF. Why the double standard NOW???

It all comes back around & your past proclaimed philosophy now bites you in the a$$ as your own SOP.....LMAO!

Obama & Holder should be neutral/hands off/cooperative, but as we all see, thats not happening. Obama shouldnt be making comments or defending this, let alone invoking exectutive privilege, & Holder should stop worrying about himself or how this makes him look politically.

With that said, I want to know Why isn't Holder pursuing justice for the hundreds of Mexicans who’ve died at the hands of cartel members armed with guns our ATF let walk across the border?

According to the hand-puppet handbook, its because he feels registering some Florida voters in an election year is far more important than pursuing justice for murdered US federal agents, or hundreds of Mexican victims of a BATF/DOJ blunder
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/22/2012 9:52:30 AM

So then why does Obama start a new program (Fast and Furious) based on a failed and discontinued tactic ...
I don't recall seeing anything that the Obama administration officially "started" any such program.

It's already been shown that "Operation Fast and Furious" was an operation run by "ATF agents in Phoenix and the Arizona U.S. Attorney's Office." I haven't seen any documentation that they were not doing this on their own.

... which ultimately results in the death of Border Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata.
Is this only important to the Republicans when it finally involves a couple of Americans?


That is the job of AG ... head of DOJ, the man in charge of the Justice Dept.

Holder is ultimately responsible ...
If the current AG should be held responsible for the actions of ATF agents in Arizona (doing something he knew nothing about at the time), then what about the AG(s) during the administration when all this gun-walking started?
John Ashcroft --- February 2, 2001 / February 3, 2005
Alberto Gonzales --- February 3, 2005 / September 17, 2007
Paul Clement --- September 17, 2007 / September 18, 2007
Peter Keisler --- September 18, 2007 / November 9, 2007
Michael Mukasey --- November 9, 2007 / January 20, 2009


Why the double standard NOW???
Exactly!! What's good enough for President Obama's AG must certainly be good enough for Bush's AG(s) ... right?


With that said, I want to know Why isn't Holder pursuing justice for the hundreds of Mexicans who’ve died at the hands of cartel members armed with guns our ATF let walk across the border?
I know ... imagine how many died at the hands of cartel members during the Bush era guns that walked across the border!

I wonder why didn't Bush's AG(s) do something about that back when it started?

Face it ... the Republicans are just out to smear AG Holder and create a problem for the White House. They are holding true to their vow to do anything it takes to get President Obama out of the White House.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/22/2012 1:33:59 PM

Well that is better than the liberals. They still haven't done anything and are obstructing the investigation.
I wouldn't know how.

We wouldn't want the AG to break the law and give the investigators/Republicans something they're not allowed to have ... would we? I anticipate that's what they want him to do and then they can get him on that?

Good that President Obama invoked executive privilege to protect AG ... so he won't have to break the law and give the committee documents that they are not allowed to have.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be interesting if what he can't give them would indict their Republican buddy ... "Shrubbie"?

Remember now, President Obama has protected "Shrubbie" in the past ... would not let them put him in jail for his war crimes. Well at least not here. Wait until "Shrubbie" tries to leave the US.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/22/2012 3:44:17 PM

What happened to your concern for all the Mexicans that was killed by this?
I've already voiced concern for the Mexicans ... have you? Or are you like other Republicans ... the Mexicans/Blacks/Browns ... minorities in general ... just really don't count the way the "superior" WHITE raced people?

I'm always concerned when American take things into their own hands without informing their superiors and think nothing of killing people ... leaving them to die ... collateral damage. The Iraqis were also considered "collateral damage" by the previous administration ... and they were (GASP!!!) the ones who started the gun-running.

Gee what a surprise.
 cotter
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/24/2012 7:01:03 PM

Then again, review some of Issa's past remarks, based on them, how this man could run this particular house committee is just bizarre.
Absolutely! He's acting like a snot-nosed bully who just can't get his throat full of bullying people and AG Holder is his intermediate target ... so he can get to the (target) guy in the White House. You know, the one the Republicans are desperately trying to get rid of.

What does Darrell Issa want?
http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/06/22/what-does-darrell-issa-want/
(Excerpts ... since the whole thing would probably bore the thread Repugnicans)
What does House Oversight Committee Rep. Darell Issa want?

Fast and Furious was a gun-trafficking operation in which agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allowed weapons to “walk,” or flow to Mexican drug cartels in the hopes of tracking them to leaders of the cartels and apprehending them. As many as 2,000 guns were lost in the botched sting and two of them turned up at the sight of a shootout that cost the life of U.S. border agent Brian Terry. Gun-walking has long been ****** barred by Justice Department policy,****** but federal agents in Arizona experimented with it in at least two investigations during the George W. Bush administration before Fast and Furious.

So it was the federal agents in Arizona just (playing around) experimenting with something that had been barred by Justice Department policy and it all started under "collateral damage/Mr. Torturer's" watch.

The “Fast and Furious” operation was run out of the U.S. attorney’s office in Phoenix. No credible evidence has emerged showing that Holder had any knowledge of the controversial gun-walking tactic. Still, shortly after the gun-smuggling scheme run amok came to light, Holder quickly acknowledged that it was a disaster and ordered an internal investigation.
Now that's being responsible ... at least more responsible than the AG(s) in the Bush administration ... eh?

The House Oversight Committee has now been investigating “Fast and Furious” for over a year and a half, and it’s been contentious every step along the way. Rep. Issa has called AG Holder a “liar”, and has labeled the Obama Administration as “one of the most corrupt in history”.

The Justice Department has handed over more than 7,600 documents related to the operation, but every time it has complied with the committee’s requests Rep. Issa has demanded more.
The bully is taking a running jump at this point!

The demand that led to this week’s standoff is Issa’s demand for 1,600 additional documents relating to the Justice Department’s strategy for responding to the Committee’s investigation. It is these documents that President Obama declared Executive Privilege this week. Think of it as attorney-client privilege. An attorney and his client will discuss their strategy for winning a case, and the opposing attorney can’t demand access to that – that’s like a coach demanding to see the other team’s game strategy. The opposing attorney can only demand any information relevant to the case, not the discussion between the other attorney and his client.

But even before President Obama declared Executive Privilege, AG Holder to make an offer to release 1,300 pages of the requested documents – BUT with one condition: if the committee would first agree that the production of these documents would end the committee’s investigation of the Justice Department. After all, this investigation has already dragged on for a year and a half, and every time the Justice Department has complied with requests it has only been met with yet more demands. The attitude of the Oversight Committee seems to be that if they can’t find what they want in almost 9,000 pages of documents, just keep digging – maybe they’ll find gold in them thar hills. Somewhere. Somehow.
So it's clear they are just never going to stop.


But now details are emerging that reveal what Rep. Issa really wants: someone’s scalp.
That's right ... Issa really doesn't want anything but "scalp" ... and he won't stop until he gets it. Just like any playground bully ... who won't stop until he gets what he wants.


That’s it in a nutshell: Much ado about nothing, much ado about politics. After a year and a half of investigating, receiving and reviewing thousands and thousands of documents Rep. Issa and his “Oversight” Committee have come up with nothing in their witch hunt.

No evidence that AG Holder and his Justice Department had any knowledge of the ATF’s rogue, operation ,

no evidence of any coverup
,

no evidence of any wrong doing.

So instead of just sitting there with egg on his face looking stupid, Rep. Issa want’s some butt. They wouldn’t give him Asst. AG Lanny Breuer’s, so now he wants to try to embarrass the President and AG Holder with trumped up contempt charges. It’s Rep. Darrell Issa who should be held in contempt, contempt from the American people.


That's right ... it's Rep. Darrell Issa who should be held in contempt, contempt from the American people!!!!!!

I hope the bully jumps and lands flat on his face.

This is nothing more than a witch hunt in an election year to do their best (as they have been trying for the past three years) to unseat this President before he has a chance to really help the nation.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/25/2012 7:00:11 AM

These records included a flow-chart showing the ultimate destinations of the weapons released by the Obama administration.
So ... did President Obama "send" weapons to Mexico or was it some rogue ATF agents in Phoenix and the Arizona US Attorney's Office was working on their own?

Was it ATF agents in Phoenix and the Arizona US Attorney's Office was working on their own who were just assuming they were still supposed to be doing this ... as a carry over from the previous murdering administration?

I have a feeling the sensitive information they are withholding is to protect the previous administration's roll in this.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 19
What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/25/2012 8:58:25 AM

Gun-walking has long been ****** barred by Justice Department policy,****** but federal agents in Arizona experimented with it in at least two investigations during the George W. Bush administration before Fast and Furious.



So it was the federal agents in Arizona just (playing around) experimenting with something that had been barred by Justice Department policy and it all started under "collateral damage/Mr. Torturer's" watch.


Yes...thats where the problem for Holder begins.

When it failed in the past & inter-departmental others took notice, it was reviewed & STOPPED. The Bush Admin. was not in the loop & had nothing to do with any of it, as YOU and OTHERS have continually pointed out. It was BATF & their agents, a bureau of the DOJ; AG Holder, CEO., running a once-stopped closed-loop operation, within the paramaters of BATF & DOJ; Eric Holder, CEO.




The “Fast and Furious” operation was run out of the U.S. attorney’s office in Phoenix.


...which is an office of DOJ; Eric Holder, CEO., in cooperation with BATF, a bureau of the DOJ; Eric Holder, CEO.

***TOTAL & COMPLETE DOJ INVOLVEMENT***


The DOJ; Eric Holder, CEO & the BATF, a bureau of the DOJ; Eric Holder, CEO.
holds ALL documented info on this.....nobody else.




No credible evidence has emerged showing that Holder had any knowledge of the controversial gun-walking tactic.


LMAO!!! Not yet!! That is why there is an ongoing investigation.

We are wondering who, why & how this stopped program was resurrected, enlarged, enhanced & implemented on such a massive scale during these past 3 years. It was also shown those in the DOJ chain of command were briefed on this operation, but didnt stop it. That was only recently found out from the latest released documents. That is when Eric Holder, CEO stopped cooperating & Obama granted executive privilege.

That is the reason for any or all investigations, AND request for documents(obviously sentive & damaging ones it seems).




But even before President Obama declared Executive Privilege, AG Holder to make an offer to release 1,300 pages of the requested documents – BUT with one condition: if the committee would first agree that the production of these documents would end the committee’s investigation of the Justice Department.


Wow, that statement reeks of insider bribery, perjury, tampering & withholding all at once. What is DOJ desperately trying to hide? VERY VERY VERY telling.


But now details are emerging that reveal what Rep. Issa really wants: someone’s scalp.


A scalp that can only be had by a tomahawk hidden in those withheld documents that the DOJ; Eric Holder, CEO, is shielding, & now that Obama has intervened & shielded, also?? Im sure that is the case now after seeing the latest.


The attitude of the Oversight Committee seems to be that if they can’t find what they want in almost 9,000 pages of documents, just keep digging – maybe they’ll find gold in them thar hills. Somewhere. Somehow.



.....which is only a FRACTION of all documents related to this date. Due to recent events, there IS gold in them hills obviously.. DOJ & POTUS are now both sitting on it.


We are sorry that the current Democratic appointed Attorney General, who is in charge of the BATF , along with the current Democratic administration (who was never involved in any of this....until now) was & is in place during this fiasco., but not necessarily in charge or directly responsible for any of this.

It should have & could have stayed that way by cooperating & being open, instead of hiding & interfering with due process. Its far too late now.




 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/27/2012 7:46:57 PM

This is nothing more than obozo and his minions trying to hide their actions until after the election


Or,it could be the Republicans using this witch hunt to take the attention away from their sorry Presidential candidate. Hey, if I had a candidate like Mitt "failure to committ" Romney I'd do my best to divert attention from his inadequacies too.

Last I heard he was sinking fast in Pa., Ohio and Fla. Strangely, states hit hardest by outsourcing.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/28/2012 8:10:58 PM

Obama is in trouble as he should be for his mishandling of the economy and this mess and his questionable involvement in Fast and Furious which led to the death of an American Border Agent.
Strange that the Republicans are not considering that nothing more than "friendly fire" the way they did the murder of Pat Tillman.

Five House Dems have gone on record saying they will vote Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress on Thursday and possibly eleven in total will do the same.
Well of course ... if the NRA owns them, they have no choice ... eh?

After tomorrow the only question to be answered will be "What did the President Know and When did He Know It"?
How so? AG Holder still can't break the law by providing documents he's not allowed to provide.

I doubt that President Obama will give up the documents ... he has a right to keep them secret if he feels it is not pertinent or should be kept a secret.

Maybe the Republicans should get "C0ck" Cheney to go in and torture Holder for the answers? I'm sure the Republicans would probably consider that OKAY!
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 22
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/29/2012 12:31:43 PM


Well of course ... if the NRA owns them, they have no choice ... eh?

It was 19 that voted yes to the criminal contempt and 21 voted yes in the civil contempt.
Exactly ... all probably owned by the NRA. There's nothing new about that. Lots of people in congress allow themselves to be bought. Why is that news?


Actually there is no executive privilege in the case of wrong doing.

And how will you prove wrong doing without documents?
He won't.

The Fortune article clearly shows that he was because he had no idea what the rogue agent had done. The retraction was made when he found out that he was mistaken, that's not illegal.
EXACTLY!
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 23
What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/30/2012 10:32:04 AM

The Fortune article clearly shows that he was because he had no idea what the rogue agent had done. The retraction was made when he found out that he was mistaken, that's not illegal.



Walk into the Columbus Police headquarters downtown on Marconi Blvd off of High St. & ask someone "which rogue agent is soley in charge of all of your sting operations?" LMAO

Stop spouting Maddow talking points & start wrapping your heads around the fact that 1 rogue agent is not responsible for something of this scale. It was interdepartmental cooperation of BATF & their agents, a bureau of the DOJ(Eric Holder, CEO), running an elaborate, once-stopped closed-loop sting operation, within the paramaters of BATF -which is a federal bureau of DOJ( Eric Holder, CEO)......not just 1 "rogue agent". An operation of this magnitude take multi-level interdepartmental cooperation by possibly hundreds of BATF/DOJ people.

Because of that....

We are still wondering who, why & how this stopped program was resurrected, enlarged, enhanced & implemented on such a massive scale during these past 3 years. It was also shown those in the DOJ chain of command were briefed on this operation, but didnt stop it. That was only recently found out from the latest released documents. That is when Eric Holder, CEO stopped cooperating & Obama granted executive privilege.

That is the reason for any or all investigations, AND request for documents(obviously sentive & damaging ones it seems).

The DOJ( Eric Holder, CEO) & the BATF, a bureau of the DOJ( Eric Holder, CEO)
holds ALL documented info on this.....nobody else.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 24
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What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/30/2012 1:31:42 PM

... start wrapping your heads around the fact that 1 rogue agent is not responsible for something of this scale.
Actually when one reads up on things, the one person that is prolific (and left over from the Bush regime and fully involved in gun-walking) is William Newell. It appears he had a lot to do with it.

It appears that a meeting with the big wigs did not suggest using the Bush regime "gun-walking" tactic. However ATF supervisors apparently decided to use it anyways. So right there is already an indication of one or more rogue supervisors going off on their own ... without the blessings of the higher-ups and it appears they decided to begin their little operation in November already.

And just as I have already suggested, it was someone who was already involved and already felt secure (because of his work with the Bush regime) in implementing such an operation ... it was none other than Bush regime Bill Newell, special agent in charge of ATF's Phoenix field division.

Also, one must wonder where the allegiance of supervisors David Voth and Hope MacAllister lies since they played lead rolls in preventing the agents from stopping the other agents from intervening. If they're leftovers from the Bush regime.

Another concern is that there is no real evidence that the bullet that killed Terry came from the two AK-pattern rifles that were found nearby. Even though the rifles were traced to Fast and Furious, they have never been able to link it with the guns becaus the bullet was too badly damaged to be conclusively linked to either gun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal
Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011, would later play a major role in Operation Fast and Furious.

2009–2011: Operation Fast and Furious

On October 26, 2009, a teleconference was held at the Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. to discuss U.S. strategy for combating Mexican drug cartels. Participating in the meeting were Deputy Attorney General David W. Ogden, Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer, ATF Director Kenneth E. Melson, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) Administrator Michele Leonhart, Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation Robert Mueller and the top federal prosecutors in the Southwestern border states. They decided on a strategy to identify and eliminate entire arms trafficking networks rather than low-level buyers. Those at the meeting did not suggest using the "gunwalking" tactic, but ATF supervisors would soon use it in an attempt to achieve the desired goals. The effort, beginning in November, would come to be called Operation Fast and Furious for the successful film franchise, because some of the suspects under investigation operated out of an auto repair store and street raced.

The strategy of targeting high-level individuals, which was already ATF policy, would be implemented by Bill Newell, special agent in charge of ATF's Phoenix field division. In order to accomplish it, the office decided to monitor suspicious firearms purchases which federal prosecutors had determined lacked sufficient evidence for prosecution, as laid out in a January 2010 briefing paper. This was said to be allowed under ATF regulations and given legal backing by U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona Dennis K. Burke. It was additionally approved and funded by a Justice Department task force. However, long-standing DOJ and ATF policy has required arms shipments to be intercepted.

In November 2009, the Phoenix office's Group VII, which would be the lead investigative group in Fast and Furious, began to follow a prolific gun trafficker. He had bought 34 firearms in 24 days, and he and his associates bought 212 more in the next month. The case soon grew to over two dozen straw purchasers, the most prolific of which would ultimately buy more than 600 weapons.

The tactic of letting guns walk, rather than interdicting them and arresting the buyers, led to controversy within the ATF. As the case continued, several members of Group VII, including John Dodson and Olindo Casa, became increasingly upset at the tactic of allowing guns to walk. Their standard Project Gunrunner training was to follow the straw purchasers to the hand-off to the cartel buyers, then arrest both parties and seize the guns. But according to Dodson, they watched guns being bought illegally and stashed on a daily basis, while their supervisors, including David Voth and Hope MacAllister, prevented the agents from intervening.

However, other accounts of the operation insist that ATF agents were prevented from intervening not by ATF officials, but rather by federal prosecutors with the Attorney General's office, who were unsure of whether the agents had sufficient evidence to arrest suspected straw-buyers. According to some reports, many agents insisted they were prevented from making arrests because prosecutors were unwilling to engage in what could become a potentially contentious political battle over Second Amendment rights during an election year, particularly given the difficult nature of prosecuting straw buyers, and the weak penalties associated with it, even if successful. Instead, prosecutors instructed ATF agents not to make arrests, but rather continue collecting evidence in order to build a stronger case. One tactic proposed for doing so was a wiretap of suspected straw-buyers, in an attempt to link the suspects to criminal activities taking place on the Mexican side of the border.

After obtaining a long awaited wiretap approval to aid in the monitoring operation, Voth wrote an email in March 2010 which read in part, "I am thrilled and proud that our Group is the first ATF Southwest Border Group in the country to be going up on wire. [...] I will be damned if this case is going to suffer due to petty arguing, rumors, or other adolescent behavior. I don’t know what all the issues are but we are all adults, we are all professionals, and we have an exciting opportunity to use the biggest tool in our law enforcement tool box. If you don’t think this is fun you are in the wrong line of work – period!” This was, according to many, in response to internal conflicts relating to the scheduling of wiretap monitoring shifts.

By June 2010, suspects had purchased 1,608 firearms at a cost of over US$1 million at Phoenix-area gun shops. At that time, the ATF was also aware of 179 of those weapons being found at crime scenes in Mexico, and 130 in the United States. As guns traced to Fast and Furious began turning up at violent crime scenes in Mexico, ATF agents stationed there also voiced opposition. One opposing agent testified to congressional investigators, "With Ms. Giffords' shooting, there was a state of panic, like, oh, God, let's hope this is not a weapon from that case", after the shooting of then Congreswoman Gabrielle Giffords.

On the evening of December 14, 2010, U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and others were patrolling Peck Canyon, Santa Cruz County, Arizona, 11 miles from the Mexican border. The group came across five suspected illegal immigrants. When they fired non-lethal beanbag guns, the suspects responded with their own weapons, leading to a firefight. Terry was shot and killed; four of the suspects were arrested and two AK-pattern rifles were found nearby. The rifles were traced to Fast and Furious within hours of the shooting, but the bullet that killed Terry was too badly damaged to be conclusively linked to either gun.


I have to wonder if Grassley would have taken the same action if all the gun-walking had come to sight during the Bush regime.


After hearing of the incident, Dodson reached out to ATF headquarters, ATF's chief counsel, the ATF ethics section and the Justice Department's Office of the Inspector General, none of whom immediately responded. He and other agents then contacted Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa (R–IA), ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who would become a major figure in the investigation of "gunwalking".
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 25
What is (Attorney General) Eric Holder really not talking about?
Posted: 6/30/2012 4:13:40 PM


Actually when one reads up on things, the one person that is prolific (and left over from the Bush regime and fully involved in gun-walking) is William Newell. It appears he had a lot to do with it.



Newell, who was special agent in charge from June 2006 to May 2011......


It was interdepartmental cooperation of PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era)BATF & their agents, a PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era) bureau of the DOJ(Eric Holder, CEO), running an elaborate, once-stopped closed-loop sting operation, within the paramaters of BATF -which is a federal bureau of PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era) DOJ( Eric Holder, CEO.

An operation of this magnitude take multi-level interdepartmental cooperation by possibly hundreds of PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era) BATF/DOJ people.


Newell of BATF -which is a federal bureau of PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era) DOJ( Eric Holder, CEO) started and oversaw "Fast and Furious," with interdepartmental cooperation of PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era) BATF & their agents, a bureau of the PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era) DOJ(Eric Holder, CEO)


Newell's office developed a plan: To identify the drug networks, his agents would track — but not arrest — straw buyers. The agents could then follow them and their associates, wiretap conversations and possibly charge more-senior cartel members with serious crimes such as conspiracy, drug trafficking and money laundering.

The plan was permitted under ATF rules, had the legal backing of U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke in Phoenix, was approved by Newell's ATF superiors and was funded by a regional task force of the Justice Department, ATF's parent agency.


It is shown over & OVER those in the PRESENT DAY(not Bush-era) DOJ chain of command(Eric Holder, CEO) were briefed on this operation, but didnt stop it. That was only recently found out from the latest released documents. That is when Eric Holder, CEO stopped cooperating & Obama granted executive privilege.

That is the reason for any or all investigations, AND request for documents(obviously sentive & damaging ones it seems).

The PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era) DOJ( Eric Holder, CEO) & the PRESENT-DAY(not Bush-era)) BATF, a bureau of the DOJ( Eric Holder, CEO) holds ALL documented info on this.....nobody else.

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