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Show ALL Forums  > Dating Experiences  > Has online dating become a non-starter for women?      Home login  
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 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 2
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?Page 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
You've quoted a bunch of men who were dissatisfied with on-line dating. I'm sure you would find an equal amount who are satisfied.

I don't consider it a non-starter for women if you ..

- have a life
- are thick skinned
- find humour in every twist and turn (my friends think I should do stand up!)
- have a sense of adventure and are open to new experiences
-you're grounded, have a solid sense of self

I've learned a lot about myself and about other people from on-line dating - priceless

I've also had the good fortune to have met some really terrific men on-line

You get out of it what you put into it

-
 neck romancer
Joined: 9/7/2006
Msg: 4
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/24/2012 6:52:28 PM
They are just mad that it didnt work out for them. They are off setting their inability to get a girl on POF.
We see it ALL the time. "Im a fantastic nice guy and every woman should want me cause Im so awesome.. so clearly POF or women is the problem" When in reality it might just have been that they were not so great of a catch.

Online dating should be seen as just another venue to meet people. The larger the net you cast the better your chances.
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 6
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/24/2012 6:58:08 PM
I'm on two other sites I'm on this one for the forum. There is another site I'm on that seems to draw more of the type of men I'm interested in - more artsy, academic etc.
 BLoNde__ANgeL
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 8
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/24/2012 7:22:27 PM
Personally, I am here 4 forums only. If other people get used or played, it's because they ALLOWED it. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!
 NonamousDog
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 13
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/25/2012 7:33:34 AM
"Has online dating had its 'moment'......?"

I think when people first discovered 12 or 15 years ago that they could meet romantic/sexual partners online, it was such a novel idea that many people were surprised that it was even possible. The fact potential dates actually could be met online at all, encouraged a lot of people to think that it was easier than it turned out to be in reality.

I think that only after a larger group of people have had more experience at meeting online has a more realistic view emerged: Meeting online will work great for some people in some circumstances; for others, it will work, but only with a great deal of effort and frustration; and for others it will not work at all.
 jeep1127girl
Joined: 12/31/2009
Msg: 14
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/25/2012 7:51:55 AM
"POF is just a large collection of women trying to get guys that are out of their league

Oh please...no man is out of my league...
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 15
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/25/2012 8:28:44 AM
I am also a member of another site. You see many of the same women there here, and vice versa.

I have heard women say that all the guys want out of this site is sex. I have also heard some cool stories.

For my money, in the other, paid site women seem to be interested in actually getting to know you. So while here I may find one date after talking to 10women. In the other side if I start talking to them more often than not it becomes a date. So I would say a ratio of 2:3. So they seem to be more serious about meeting in the other site.
 wanderer1999
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 17
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/25/2012 9:06:19 AM
In my experience POF is a different experience than other "paid" sites.

I believe this is mainly due to the "barrier to entry".

When it costs $$$ to send messages, e-mails, or even contact someone, people become more discriminating about how many messages they send as well as the content of those messages. The shotgun approach becomes more financially punitive, and thus less widely used. This tends to lead to a reduction in "background noise" for women.

Also, requiring the expenditure of $$$ seems to weed out a significant number of people that would be considered "undatable" due to financial reasons.

That said, women are often overwhelmed with the amount of e-mail interest they recieve regardless of the site that they are on. However, if a woman is recieving only 20 e-mails vs 200, your chances are markedly improved, especially if you don't exclusively target women with "superstar" pics. Women also improve their success rates if they are not only targetting men with "white knight" attributes.

That does not mean that you can not find a meaningful partner on POF. I had more than a few excellent dates and a relationship or two over the years. Interestingly enough, my greatest successes was with sending messages to women without online photographs. While there were unattractive women among those without photographs, there were more than a few gems in there as well... women who would easily have been swamped with attention had their actual physical beauty been posted for all to see.

One thing I have noticed over the years in terms of online dating (I first encountered it in the 1980's in online multi-line chat rooms), is that women have become more savvy, more cautious, and more demanding in their online dating habits. Part of this is through hard won experience and horror stories, part of this is through the popularization of online dating leading them to engage aggressive screening and filtering to bring the attention overload to more manageable levels.

Online dating has truly become a mass market phenomenon, and as such has changed from a rather niche population base (computer savvy, higher education, more affluent) to something more resembling the actual population at large (all stripes and all walks of life).

Personally, I suspect the level of success in terms of meaningful online dating would increase substantially if fewer women posted photographs publicly, more men focussed on those women without photographs, and more women made the effort to message men first. It is alot easier for a woman to not miss men of quality when they don't have to filter through a large amount of dross, and it is easier for men to assess a woman accurately when they are not blinded by their outer beauty initially.

Best of luck.

Wanderer
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 20
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/25/2012 12:52:19 PM
"When it costs $$$ to send messages, e-mails, or even contact someone, people become more discriminating about how many messages they send as well as the content of those messages."

That would only be true if the site used a cost-per-message strategy... and I've never heard of such a thing. In nearly all cases you pay X amount per month and can send unlimited messages of unlimited type and quality during those 30 days. Now I personally *do* send far less messages when I have subscriptions on paid sites, but that's because most paid sites like Match have preference listings and I meet the preferences of only 10% of the women. Which is probably also true on POF, but because it doesn't have preference listings (except for a handful of largely useless but absolute mail settings), very few women include them in their profiles, so I have no choice but to email every woman I'd be willing to date on POF... despite the likelihood that less than 10% of those I'm emailing probably would have disqualified me with a preference listing.

I do think paid sites are perceived as having a higher class of users than free sites... and perception sorta becomes reality because those who think paying to get dates is beneath them refuse to go on those sites (even if they have the money to do so).

As for the original question, I don't feel like online dating has changed much over the past 5 years, but it's definitely changed a lot over the past 15 years. In the late 90s and early 2000s the concept was still in its infancy and there was much less competition, and I met about a couple dozen women (sometimes effortlessly) through various sites during that period. Since I joined POF 5 years ago, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of women I've met, and certainly not with less effort than before. The sites that are still operational from my more successful era have many times more members than they did back then as online dating has become much more acceptable to the general public and marketing for them has gone through the roof. Because I was in a long term relationship during the transition, to me it's seemed like "all-of-the-sudden" online dating has changed, but it was probably a lot more gradual.

There's also the possibility that I've simply aged out of my dating potential, as opposed to just the dating world itself changing. Women in their late teens and early 20s are lot more open-minded and experimental, at least with men close to their own age, whereas women in their late 20s and 30s have decided to get serious about finding a perfect partner and have biological clock issues, so they can't waste time with "experiments," so that might also be contributing to my own personal current problems with online dating.

As for women's point-of-view, I think it may just be a POF issue, since it has such an antiquated dating site strategy, and as a free site, it's also a cesspole of the worst-of-the-worst, which certainly dispropotionately affects women. My female friends on Match and eH can't say enough good things about their experiences on them and several are getting married as a result of being connected through those sites. With POF, you kind of get what you pay for (although, as several have already pointed out here, it is rather interesting that OKC is also a free site and have a much, uh, "higher class"? of clientele, which suggests to me that POF could improve their users' experiences if they really wanted to).
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 24
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/25/2012 8:00:00 PM
"Imagine your parents or other couples that you know that have been together a long time. If they had met through PlentyOfFish, would they even be together?"

My ex readily admitted that if we had been introduced through POF, we never would have dated at all, because she would not have searched for a man with my characteristics, and if I had sent her a message first, she probably would have ignored it since she wasn't looking for a man like me. Instead we met at work (although she only got the job because she was best friends with a girl who was the sister of my closest male friend so we likely would have eventually met anyway) and got to know each other first as co-workers forced to be together 2-3 days a week, then as friends and eventually after almost a year, she developed a crush on me and shyly pursued me... despite the fact that I wasn't her "type."

That sort of thing will never happen on POF because of the "shiny object syndrome" and the "knight in shining armor syndrome." Which, to be fair, even I sort of suffer from the latter: if I'm not attracted to the woman upon her initial email to me, why would I actively pursue her? But in "real life" women I thought not much of have certainly grown on me over time. However, I definitely have no "shiny object syndrome" issues -- that would require more than one woman emailing me every 3 months. I can see why many women might have the problem, though -- but it's still quite annoying to be 5 emails into a conversation with a woman and have her suddenly disappear, and then you go back through all of your emails and desperately try to find the "red flag" that caused her to do that, and you just can't.

That's really the biggest problem with online dating: it doesn't allow the type of relationships to develop that can develop offline after one person initially has no interest in the other person (or in each other). Here, it's just one email and you're done. Or one email from some other hotter guy sneaking in between your emails and you're done.

I honestly don't even know how I got to the point of meeting anyone on this site -- well, except for the couples cases of the woman sending the first email. If the woman sends the first email, there is a far better chance of the meeting happening. My one genuine case in 5 years of meeting a woman from the site in which I sent the initial email didn't really seem to be a case of me doing some sort of great job of keeping her attention and I definitely doubt it was because she was strongly attracted to me. I think she was just bored and ready to meet somebody.

Glad to know I'm in complete control of my own destiny on this site.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 26
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 6:03:14 AM

Hawking definitely has a point, I have heard of situations where in some cities, where a man had spotted a woman out in public at a bar or street faire was the same woman he emailed online and of course, got ignored.

So he would approach her in person, and make small talk with her as if she had never met her before in his life. They hit it off, exchanged phone #'s, and then after about the 4th or 5th date, he revealed that he had emailed her from the dating site.

She was totally shocked that she had ignored him, even admitted that had she had known he was the same guy, she would have actually REPLIED to him (back then, of course)....but, hindsight is 20/20. LOL

So it's kind of sad how tons of people are shooting people down on here, when they would probably not even do it face to face.


See, and if this happened to me, where I emailed a man , got ignored, then had a succesful in person random meet with him? It would make me question my Ad on pof, and take a good, hard look at what I was presenting that was so easlily ignored...but here in N America, it is more fashionabale to blame others for our issues.

I say this, because I have a few real life male friends on pof. I KNOW they are charming, cute, active...they have a lot to offer. However, thier Ads stink royally on here. If you think you can upload blurry, out of focus pics, pics taken from 100 yards away on your skiboat etc...and type in 4 sentences and the ladies will all come a callin, you are not very bright. If you have real life enounters that are going well, then your profile is not very good at showing you in the same light...and like it or not, thats all we are on here, is a profile. Once people actually 'get it'...that online dating is a visual medium and sell themselves as they do in real life, they just may find success on here.

Slamming/questioning someone for liking you in person, while ignoring your profile online screams of laziness, entightlement...qualities that are not desirable. Do you think a woman should go out and meet every male who emails her, even if looking at thier profile makes her feel compelled to look away? lololol I can assure you...if a woman comes across a profile that actually interests her, she will show that interest/reply to a non offensive email.

The ONLY profiles I ever responded to had more than a few, up close face shots that were very clear. I wanted to know I would recognize that face upon meeting in public for the first time. I cannot tell you how many men I have spoken to that just dont get it. They have every excuse in the book as to why they uploaded crap pictures. The energy they expend to make excuses for the lack of good pics would be better used in getting someone to take a few up close face shots. But the men feel that is 'gay' to have a freind help them out...so it is easier to blame the women.

Why would I go out and meet men from profiles that do absolutely nothing for me, when I can choose to meet men whose profiles actually caught my attention?


So it's kind of sad how tons of people are shooting people down on here, when they would probably not even do it face to face.


Face to face...people get ignored thousands time per day. People just wont allow eye contact to someone they have checked out and deemed not attractive to them. It is subtle, but it is the same thing. In real life, if I say 'no thanks' to a mans offer to 'get to know better' he doesnt stand there calling me names and degrading me. This is the norm online, so I wouldnt 'go there' and try to make these comparisons.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 27
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 7:03:10 AM
femaleconnection: I would say you completely missed my point (which was really first longspring's point in this thread, abelian), but I think you're just ignoring it. You seriously trying to tell me that "on the street" every guy you ever ended up dating, you decided to do so the second you met him? In real life that rarely ever happens outside of the young bar crowd. People often grow attracted to one another over time. And the major flaw of online dating is that it doesn't allow for that to happen -- it's an "instant gratification" tool. People only respond to people they are instantly attracted to.

Although, I would definitely say that the internet in general isn't necessarily that way. I've known couples that got together after being introduced through non-dating sites and getting to know each other through chatting, the message boards/forums, etc. before deciding they liked each other and wanted to date. The problem with dating sites is that you obviously go onto them with the attitude of wanting to date, so you put your blinders on and focus entirely on whether or not someone is "your type," and if not, you move on to the next one. On other sites or real life, you rarely meet someone with the intention of dating so you don't worry about whether or not they're "your type" which allows the two people to take their time to get to know each other without any pressure. Those circumstances allow that thing you women like to call "chemistry" to build. There's no such thing as "chemistry" during online dating introductions. It's just: is he my "type" or isn't he? And that's the end of it.

I'm not saying some men don't shoot themselves in the foot with lame profiles, but you're being HIGHLY disingenious if you believe every case of two people having good chemistry in real life and none during an introductory connection on a dating site is because the man made a bad profile. People who aren't each other's "type" date all the time in real life (not necessarily with good results), but it almost never happens through online dating. Yes, "online dating is a visual medium" but most successful dating isn't particularly visually-oriented.

And there's honestly nothing that can be done about it. I'm certainly not saying women should go out with every guy that emails them to see if they have real life chemistry. It is just a flaw of internet dating and it is what it is. People like me who aren't really anyone's "type" are simply going to fail on most internet dating sites, regardless of the profile and pictures and introductory emails.

All that said, when I was much younger, I did fairly well on a couple of internet social sites that had dating as a secondary characteristic, and actually ended up with the opposite problem a lot: I'm obviously a good creative writer and came across much better in my writing than I did talking in real life, leading to a number of women being disappointed upon meeting me (and not for the usual reason -- I definitely looked like my pictures and was the height I claimed). I mean, I was writing novels in middle school and publishing poems in high school -- I could seriously blow my competitors to pieces in dating-oriented emails. But I'm a pretty lame conversationalist in real life. Not sure what my ex was thinking. So theoretically, you could be TOO GOOD at developing online chemistry. However, that still requires the women to give you a chance to begin with, which I got much more frequently a decade ago than now, but again I think that's largely a function of the ever-evolving sites, the internet dating culture and my aging.
 JerseyGirl2008
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 28
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 7:19:44 AM

"POF is just a large collection of women trying to get guys that are out of their league.

You have GOT to be kidding me.

All one needs to do is look at the human trainwreckage in my inbox to see the utter absudity in that statement. If those guys are 'out of my league,' then I need to be taken behind the barn and shot because it's all over for me. LOL.
 nubeginnings64
Joined: 4/8/2012
Msg: 29
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 7:35:47 AM
My simple answer is yes for both men & women. Online dating had it's time but it's over & for all the reasons you posted. This includes the pay sites because the same people on here are there. Those that try to take it or the people seriously tend to be overly cynical & suspicious. More for entertainment value now, like the forums.
 SunshineAngel99
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 30
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 7:58:23 AM
I can't speak for others but online dating is a compliment to what I do in real life, as it allows me to expand my prospects of finding a woman I am compatible with. Those that don't see the point of online dating view it as a binary all or nothing type of deal, which is a misleading attitude to have.
 wanderer1999
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 31
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 8:46:50 AM

You have GOT to be kidding me.

All one needs to do is look at the human trainwreckage in my inbox to see the utter absudity in that statement. If those guys are 'out of my league,' then I need to be taken behind the barn and shot because it's all over for me. LOL.


I understand what you're saying, however there is also a significant amount of pre-date screening that takes place online that would never take place in a real world scenario.

I have no doubt that a significant number of women who I dated from offline sources would have pre-screened me out if they had met me online for any number of superficial reasons. This includes women with whom I had substantial and meaningful relationships. And they all would have missed the opportunity to spend time with a great guy.

When I was single I was once told of the "moose" analogy when it comes to dating.

If you were hunting for a moose, you'd set up a blind, carefully scout the area, check your equipment, and patiently wait for a moose.

When you saw a moose, you wouldn't ask whether the moose has seen alot of other hunters, whether they have the same worldview as you, or what they want to do in 5 years. If you think the moose is passable, you shoot first then go from there. If you spent that much time pre-screening a moose, the moose would just wander away and you'd end up going home hungry.

Real life dating is like that. I see a woman, I think she's attractive, I approach her and go from there. I don't interrogate her inside and out before I ask for her number or to see her again. I talk to them just enough to get a feel for them. The details are for when you're on a date.

Online dating is like that. If you ask too many questions up front and pre-screen too much, you'll invariably find something wrong with that other person. Since everyone has negatives, trying to screen heavily based upon their weaknesses is a recipe for disaster.

It would be like doing a job interview and spending all your time pointing out weaknesses in the other person without asking any of their strengths.

You refer to the "human trainwreckage" in your inbox. Do you really believe that you're only seeing the dregs of society online? Is it just possible that the reason there's so many "messed up" people e-mailing you is not because they're the exception, but because Most human beings ARE messed up?

Average human beings are not superstars, or gorgeous, or rich, or highly accomplished, or PHD's, or charming and debonair, or without insecurities, etc, etc. Those people are the Exceptions, ie, those are NOT normal guys.

Normal guys are decent looking but not stunning, have a brain but aren't geniuses, may be better talkers than writers, or better writers than talkers, may or may not be shy, and may or may not be good spellers. They can be kind, generous and thoughtful, or they may not be any of the above.

The point the previous poster was trying to make is that there's a large number of "average" women who want the "dream", the above average or extraordinary guy, even when they don't bring enough to the table to justify that extraordinary guy wanting to be with them.

If I were accomplished, ambitious, secure, handsome, charming, emotionally well adjusted, financially secure, well read, educated, kind, generous, loving and caring, what would Most women on this site bring to the table that would make me choose Them? Especially if I KNOW that I can choose from any number of women?

This isn't so much about dating in or out of your league, it's realizing that some people are holding out for a lottery ticket without buying enough tickets.

Extraordinary people are very selective screeners because they can afford to let good people slip through the cracks.

How many Men and Women on this site can truly say they can afford to do the same?
 Silverhawk_tkn
Joined: 12/3/2010
Msg: 32
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 8:52:53 AM

I honestly don't even know how I got to the point of meeting anyone on this site -- well, except for the couples cases of the woman sending the first email. If the woman sends the first email, there is a far better chance of the meeting happening.



This was my most successful modus-operendi while I dated on this site. I let the women email me. Granted, I had WAY less activity than if I initiated the emails, but I found I had much more success and much better quality of dates than if I approached women here.

My current GF emailed me several times.....I politely told her I wasn't interested and she politely kept trying!! Something to be said for persistence for sure!!
 roguevampire
Joined: 5/8/2009
Msg: 33
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 10:27:26 AM
Isn't that like getting a 50 on a test. That is a failing grade.
 An a19
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 34
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 11:29:00 AM
I do have to agree here, most men on here don't care about what a woman looks like or how old she is, all they want is meet them and screw em.. I mean what on earth is wrong with these guys. Yes I have to agree this is turning out to be a sex site.. but what do you want for nothing.. I doubt very much you will meet the love of your life on here.. I don't just doubt it I know it.. They don't care about a woman's feeling etc. this site is full of vulgers looking to prey on any woman they can get their hands on.. I find myself too sophisticated for this site and hope woman will think about the men on here good and hard.
 DevotedExplorer
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 35
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 11:43:24 AM
Wanderer thats great input I have to say I agree with you
 Sillyandserious
Joined: 11/16/2011
Msg: 36
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 12:37:37 PM
Wow....just....WOW! I would say someone is a little bitter. Why is it so shocking that men out there will put "Looking for relationship" while only wanting a 'hook-up' {{GASP}} Really??? There have always been men out there that will play the games to get sex....since the beginning of time.

I think women should KNOW this and take responsibilty for their own choices and vulnerabilities.

I also think that there are men out there who are truly looking for a long-term relationship...but who is gonna turn down sex (even if this person is not 'the one')???? It is painful on the ego to admit we (as women) are just not the one for him...and we are the ones who made the active decision to climb in his bed.
 roguevampire
Joined: 5/8/2009
Msg: 37
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 12:44:26 PM
Yes, men are out here preying on all the helpless women, lol. Remember, for every man that is out there looking for sex, it takes 2. That means there's a woman going along with it. And women need to stop denying they are sexual beings and like to get with someone, just for sex, just like guys do.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 38
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/26/2012 4:22:14 PM

All one needs to do is look at the human trainwreckage in my inbox to see the utter absudity in that statement. If those guys are 'out of my league,' then I need to be taken behind the barn and shot because it's all over for me. LOL.


Just wondering... would a guy get some brownie points from you if he promised to miss the shot ? ;-) how about if he installed some railroad crossing signs in front and back of your inbox to prevent additional wreckage ?

Where there is a will, there is a solution :-) (and possibly an inheritance)
 NVMinerMan
Joined: 6/2/2012
Msg: 41
Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/27/2012 4:17:59 AM
nonstarter?

did u chek the battery?
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 42
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Has online dating become a non-starter for women?
Posted: 6/27/2012 8:57:26 AM
POF is pretty much the worst (popular) site for successful/educated people with no kids to find someone, as it tends to attract a much higher percentage of a...different...demographic. OKC is also free - so there's something about the presentation on this site as compared to that which switches the demographics so ridiculously.

And, as was mentioned before, it can be more disheartening for a minority since there are no screening questions listed on profiles. It's actually helpful on Match to know if you're messaging one of the 10% of people that aren't looking for Caucasian exclusivity in dating, or if you are that limited, being able to filter out the "undesirable races" to a degree. Similarly, being able to filter out overweight people/short people/people with kids more easily helps a lot as well. There's a lot that makes POF really...annoying when it comes to dating as compared with other sites, and also why I don't even really bother on here as compared to elsewhere.
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