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 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 1
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUESPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I'm curious about an experience I've had on a few dates. Obviously, I've been dating men so I don't know if men have the experience with women, so feel free to share.

I'm in my mid 50's and I'm attracted to men in their mid 50's to early 60's. All of the men I've gone out with are lovely, interesting socially engaging men. However, on three separate dates I've run into a dating snafu. Let me describe a recent scenario, I meet this guy for dinner #2. He sits down, says hi, then hears the music in the restaurant, he talks about the artist then the song, then a connection the artists has to an artist he use to listen to when he was in his 20;s in NYC who happen to play with Bob Dylan, then on to how he just bought tickets to see Leonard Cohen...with details about how he got the tickets...then every concert he went to see Cohen in..... 1/2hr later I say "HI" back! Needless to say, that was the end of that. The first time this happened I just thought it was an odd quirk, but now I'm wondering if it's some kind of pattern.

So, all of these men were over 58, they had all been single for over 5 years and lived alone. I was initially wondering if they were alone too long and were out of practice with adult conversation.

They all had kids who were in their late teens or early twenties and seemed to be a handful. So theory #2 is that they are used to talking too people not with people.

#3. They are confident men, not shy, no social anxiety.

I'm not shy or a conversational slouch and each man asked me out again, so I don't think it was an issue of ennui on his part. I went out with someone else a couple of weeks ago, who has a passion for Russian literature. Well he spent over 1/2hr talking about it and it was one of my best dates. He made eye contact, he checked in with me to assess my interest level, it was a monologue but an engaged one.

I asked a colleague of mine who is a dating pro what she made of this. She asked me a very interesting question - does he have any interests that he is very dedicated too. And, it turns out that he is an avid cyclist (150k every weekend!) She said in her experience guys who are like this can be very self-absorbed and rigid. I found this really curious.

What do you think?
 nativerock
Joined: 10/16/2010
Msg: 2
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:08:08 PM

does he have any interests that he is very dedicated too. And, it turns out that he is an avid cyclist (150k every weekend!) She said in her experience guys who are like this can be very self-absorbed and rigid.


I personally do not care for men that monopolize the conversation.. That usually does mean they are more interested in themselves then finding out about you.. This has nothing to do with someone that has a passion for cycling.. However that much cycling every weekend makes me wonder if he is preparing to compete in some event? Secondly will that mean he is too pooped to date on the weekends? When you are preparing for a competition you have to be rigid in your training, that would personally not bother me at all..

However if he was spending more time looking at himself in the mirror than I do it could be a cause for concern..

nativerock
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 3
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:10:28 PM
I talk a LOT.

When I meet a man who delivers a monologue and won't let me say anything, that's the end of that.
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 4
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:25:00 PM
on three separate dates I've run into a dating snafu. Let me describe a recent scenario, I meet this guy for dinner #2. He sits down, says hi, then hears the music in the restaurant, he talks about the artist then the song, then a connection the artists has to an artist he use to listen to when he was in his 20;s in NYC who happen to play with Bob Dylan, then on to how he just bought tickets to see Leonard Cohen...with details about how he got the tickets...then every concert he went to see Cohen in..... 1/2hr later I say "HI" back

FIRST, please describe any "prequalifier requirements" that those men had to have in order for you to accept a dinner "date" with them? Ok, a display of intriguing "creativity".
Next, did you default into your "therapist/counselor/listener" role in your first communications with them online and in person?

There are many many middle-aged people out there that live alone and seek someone to vent to or that will "listen" to their stream of consciousness ramblings without interruption out of courtesy, subordination or habit..
Rigidity may set in at about 55 for many people used to working alone without consulting others at all.
The expectation that others should just listen to them talking, that others have less important things to talk about.. Beware of that 55 birthday, it may happen to you!

When you feel comfortable enough to interrupt them after a few minutes monologue, and then assert yourself just enough to participate about 50% in the conversation,
is when that scenario will stop happening.

VVV
hanging onto every word she shares about her life/self/trivial pursuits:)

A man who does THAT kind of hangin likely has no "game". There has to be balance in the interest level instead of so one-sided that he "hangs on every word" she deems to speak..

 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 5
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:41:08 PM
TALL: FIRST, please describe all the "prequalifier social status requirements" that those men had to have in order for you to accept a dinner "date" with them?

Hmm...well I don't have a social status requirements - I'm not sure where this is coming from - the Russian poet guy is a waiter for a catering company (unpaid writer), the monologue guy is semi retired -he owns a small shop. (he also writes). My ex is a writer (unpaid). Hmmm see a pattern here...I'm basically attracted to writers who will become famous after they die! I assure you there is no social status from men I date. The cache in my circle is creativity not income.
 Ready_Real
Joined: 12/30/2010
Msg: 6
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:41:57 PM
When a man who is ready, willing, and able for an LTR is interested in a woman, he can't get enough of her. This includes asking her questions about herself with some degree of emotion/enthusiasm or positive (i.e. a smile, a look straight into her eyes. . . ). And hanging onto every word she shares about her life/self/trivial pursuits:)

JMO based upon just my experiences (Is there cyberlanguage for this? Like JME?)

Caveat: Whether or not there's such an acronym as JME I do wish to clarify that my JME moments such as those described above don't seem to happen nearly as often these days. You are certainly not alone, OP, in wondering about this all too typical scenario. JMO JME45+
 dmzvisitor
Joined: 3/25/2011
Msg: 7
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:44:11 PM
I doubt it is specific to men, and I've run into the same thing. I'm guessing that one reason some people are single is that they are just too socially inept like this. So weeding through those is part of the process.

Do you have any phone conversations first? Maybe that would help identify the monologgers. (I could have written monologuers, but monologgers--boring you so you could sleep like a log--seems more appropriate and entertaining).

I went speed-dating once and the 1st man spoke to me uninterruptedly for 15 minutes (9 before the "round" started). I felt like explaining to him why he was single, but I didn't. :)
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 8
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:54:27 PM
OP. Your profile is as exciting as reading the ingredients on the side of a cereal box.

Ten to one you don't give these guys a big hug when you meet or flash a bit of cleavage and give them a 'wow' look.
You aren't setting up a connection.... No banter. No ennuie, No vamp.

If guys rattle on it's likely they are a bit nervous. They feel like they are in a job interview rather than being able to let their hair down and just enjoy your company.

About 5 minutes into meeting my girlfriend for the first time the talk somehow turned to her visit to the Eifel tower. I said that although I was from France I had never been up it because there was a hundred more romantic places to visit in Paris rather than a phallic symbol.. She reached over and let me take her hand and joked 'my hand is all you get to touch tonight'. Anyways, she knew exactly what she was doing to try and get us laughing together instead of having 'conversation'.

bottom line...lighten up. Try and be as bit weird and crazy.
 jfcaaron
Joined: 2/13/2010
Msg: 9
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 3:59:42 PM
flaneur001,
Looked at your profile, I can see by what you have posted on you profile that you are very articulate, professional and good looking. But, by what you have stated in your post I think that these men are trying there best to make an impression on you. Yea, they may have been alone to long and don't have the social skills that they once had (been there myself). They may/or may not come out of it in time with someone of importance that they would like in thier life. I myself, would not dicount anyone of them. Give them some time (determined by you) to become a little comfortable with you and be able to open up with you and not dominate the conversasion about "themselves" to impress "you"
I have been on the forums for quite sometime now, and have seen alot of your responces to post. You are one of the very best. Nonjudgemental, truthfull in what you read, no negetivity, no foul language, just the truth in what you see of it.
 wanderer1999
Joined: 2/10/2007
Msg: 10
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 4:06:52 PM
People who monopolize the conversation are not uncommon, especially between Men and Women.

Men and Women actually use different pacing in their conversations. The amount of time a Man will wait before considering it "clear" to talk amongst a group of Men is actually significantly less than the amount of time a Woman will wait before considering it "clear" to talk amongst a group of Women.

What Women percieve as a rude interruption/monopolization or not listening can just be a Man percieving it as "dead time" and acting to fill the conversation space.

Men who are well versed in communication with Women will wait an extended period of time before interjecting, adapting to the conventions of woman-woman communication. Women who have worked in male dominated professions will also learn to do the same, shortening their delay windows to fit male-male communication.

So were these Men actually trying to monopolize the conversation? It's possible. Some extroverts have a compulsive need to fill "dead space", looking at is as a signal that the listener wants to hear them talk more. If they do the same in a conversational setting with other Men, then they are most likely just highly extroverted.

If on the other hand they are better listeners around Men, then they are most likely not adapting well to the more paced style of talking that is prevalent in woman-woman conversations.

This is also why Men who are considered excellent listeners are quite rare. Most Men haven't spent that much time participating in woman dominated interactions, giving those that are familiar with them a substantial dating advantage.

Of course, the pace of conversation is only one part of the differences between Male and Female communication. Getting familiar with all the idiosyncracies takes considerable effort and time. Getting good at it even moreso.
 Wonder5750
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 11
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 4:46:59 PM
I know folks like this... all they want is to have their say, and if you wait patiently for your turn...well dang.. time;s up!

Finding someone that "sees" me has been my greatest treasure. I have met two men on this time around that actually "see" me. They note my facial expression, my stance, what I am wearing, the whole package, every time I see them. And I them as well. To lock eyes on someone and connect is a rare thing. To meet someone that thinks as much of you as you do of them. To never even think to tell an untruth, to ease the conversation, because you are damn sure they will notice, so the pat answer of "I'm fine" when in truth you are not, will not do. Ya suck it up and share if you are up, down or turned around, and they listen, and if you ask for it, they offer advise. This is communication... its not just words, its eyes and heart. One of these guys is my boyfriend the other a good friend. amazing to me after being invisable for so long to have someone connect in that way.

Now folks are nervous on first dates to be sure, and often times fear silence. Sometimes its so you can;t "get in" and ask questions about them, or the great fear, you will burst their bubble and not be who they thought..or worse yet, burst your bubble.

Just random thoughts on the subject.
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 12
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 4:54:03 PM
I have been out on some dates that were just as you described OP. Then on others, the man was engaged and listening, asking questions. I am a "chatty gal" myself and truly appreciate when a man shows his interest. And it isn't difficult to see it. Then there are some that seem to have rehersed the date beforehand by asking the standard questions....mentioning buzz words like baggage and red flags. I was out on a date recently where he felt the need to tell me that he had discontinued seeing a woman because the sex was bad. Then he got into telling me about a woman he took home and she was such a screamer he thought the neighbours heard? Wtf?
 Irish Eyez
Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 13
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 4:57:11 PM
A first meet I went on was terrible. All he did was talk, talk, talk about himself and I didn't get a word in edgewise. He never asked me one question! He said he didn't smoke, but chained smoked throughout the entire time. Ugh.

I quickly began looking for the exit.

Needless to say, there wasn't a 2nd date.
 c_deacon
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 14
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 5:21:13 PM
I just think that you have run into some bad luck OP........and these men have not learned the lesson taught to many of us, and that is to listen as much if not more, then you speak.

Some of us get told just the opposite of what you are talking about, and I am asked at times about being quiet and listening, and if something is wrong?......lol I was taught at a young age that for far to many people that are lonely or alone, that seem to have the need to fill that void with talking, in order to not feel so alone.

The best opportunities are with those that flow easily with your stories, your comments, and your thoughts, and it seems seamless with the back and forth open, and very creative conversation. We are out there, you just need to find us.

cd
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 15
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 6:01:52 PM
Thanks everyone, this really has been very helpful I appreciate it.

CD Deacon: The best opportunities are with those that flow easily with your stories, your comments, and your thoughts,
and it seems seamless with the back and forth open, and very creative conversation. We are out there, you
just need to find us.

Yes, I agree. I have. Most of my friends and colleagues are like this. And, just to say most of the men I've met, except for these three. My former partner was my age, and I'm finding that I'm drawn to older men - late 50's so I wasn't sure if this was a generational thing. Thanks.

JFCaaron and Abelian: I didn't think about their 'trying to make an impression" theory. There maybe something to it. Something to really think about.

Wonder570 - You nailed it. "Finding someone that "sees" me has been my greatest treasure. ". I didn't feel this at all with Mr. Dylan/Cohen but I absolutely did feel this with Mr. Russian poet. I think one of the reasons I've always been attracted to writers is because their mind is oriented to being curious, in the moment, engaged. It's the type of engagement that I savour.

Thanks again.
 Iona_Bob
Joined: 3/31/2012
Msg: 16
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 6:04:51 PM
The best opportunities are with those that flow easily with your stories, your comments, and your thoughts, and it seems seamless with the back and forth open, and very creative conversation. We are out there, you just need to find us.


I love to talk. But, I also love to be stimulated by listening to someone else's thoughts. When it happens that we can both "riff" off one another, I know that my fondest hopes have been realized ... We will never be bored and can talk on an infinite number of subjects. That is nirvana for me. I know I can roll over for the next 20 years and always look forward to seeing the face of the person that touches my mind!
 flaneur001
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 17
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 6:06:01 PM
jfcaaron: I tried to send you an e-mail to thank you for your kind words about my posts. But....ha ha... I'm too old for your settings.!
 windchymes
Joined: 11/29/2008
Msg: 18
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 6:13:27 PM

When you feel comfortable enough to interrupt them after a few minutes monologue, and then assert yourself just enough to participate about 50% in the conversation,
is when that scenario will stop happening.


Not necessarily. I went out with a guy once who did just that, talked on and on about himself and his kids. After about 20 minutes, when he stopped to take a bite of his cold dinner, since I had almost finished mine, I thought finally, my turn, and started talking about my kids, about two sentences. He grunted, and went right back to talking about himself and his kids again. I tried a couple more times to make it a 50-50 conversation, hell, I'd have settled for a 20-80 conversation, but he was only interested in himself and his kids, didn't acknowledge or comment on anything I said or ask me any questions about myself or my kids. I gave up, refused dessert, he paid the check (his choice), we walked to the cars, I said thanks, have a good night, got in mine and left while he stood there looking all bewildered.

No, some guys (and women, I presume, never dated one) just don't or won't get it.
 FunnyGirly1
Joined: 5/17/2012
Msg: 19
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 6:33:16 PM
I do not care for a man that monopolizes the conversation. The conversation should flow between the man and women. It is rude and selfish for a person to monopolize the conversation. A person that monopolizes a conversation only cares about them selves and it shows how they will be in a relationship. They have a need to be in control.
 FitAtFittyFive
Joined: 4/3/2012
Msg: 20
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 6:43:57 PM
Oh yeah. Had one just like that recently. It was like I was out with Joan Rivers. I couldn't have squeezed a word in if I'd had a crow bar with me. Then at the end, she said I was kind of quiet.

Check please! :-)
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 21
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 6:48:52 PM
Maybe interrupt and draw their attention to it.
As they are clueless that they are doing that.

I have a bud who doesn't get out much,
or talk to alot of people.
He's a neighbor so when I stop by to visit...
he talks and talks.
and TALKS.

It seems having no one to talk to in a while,
the words just pile up inside.
I mentioned that to him and he's gotten better.
Just wasn't aware of it.
 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 22
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Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 8:05:22 PM
it's a forums cliche, but it seems you're overthinking this.

you point out yourself that one guy blathers for half an hour (mr. leonard cohen lover) and you've made out his pink slip. another guy does the same thing (mr. tolstoy/kafka/dostoevski lover) and you're enthralled. the mere fact of their volubility isn't as relevant as you're making it out to be, perhaps. it's just one pixel in the larger picture the two of you constructed out of all personality stuff and energy you both brought in that moment.

these gabbers who turned you off would have turned you off with one tenth of their verbiage, because it wasn't about the gabbing.

these were just dates that went nowhere. part and parcel of the mate search. no deeper meaning or larger pattern than that.

She asked me a very interesting question - does he have any interests that he is very dedicated too. .. She said in her experience guys who are like this can be very self-absorbed and rigid.

what she's describing is passion. just speculation, but i'll bet if she shared that passion, or maybe just ANY passion, it would have been relatable, and perhaps sexy as hell. or maybe she expected that she could supplant his passion, and resented not being able to.

we often condemn what we don't understand or agree with, or what prevents us from getting our way.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 23
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 9:42:33 PM
I found the recount of your dates hilarious... thank you for the laughs.

I don't know why some guys go into monologues. I'm going to throw a wild guess at you. Some guys are shy and can't get a word out, I am guessing that some guys want to let you know they are not that way. With those, you're in for a supersized portion of verbal salad with all the trimmings. You might even get Russian dressing ;-)

I don't know how to fix the problem but, one idea that comes to mind is to bring a metronome to the date. Set it low... let him know that he can talk on the left tick and you'll talk on the right tick. With a little practice they might get it.

Sorry, it's the only thing I could come up with. :-( Tough problem!
 pfif
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 24
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 10:25:28 PM
* * * long post * * *

listening

I explain to close friends that they have to give me the information in the right sequence, or I won't be able to listen, because I have no framework to use, to assemble the whole.

I want to know--let's call it the main point--first. They seem to have the habit of giving all the peripheral stuff first, like a mystery novel writer, dropping clues. I need the framework first. I make sure they know this.

It's a struggle.

I also have big trouble with spacial relations mapped onto verbal conversations. Locals have this habit of referring to local geography I know nothing about -- they need the landmarks to help them organize the information, as they are speaking. Same with chronology -- they have to tell it in the sequence it happened, otherwise they can't tell it at all.

But in the meantime, they've lost me, because they cannot omit details that don't pertain to their narrative. The details don't matter because they're incidental to why they want to tell me this narrative.


speaking

I've all but lost the ability to speak coherently. I mostly listen. I don't like hearing my own voice for more than a few minutes at at time (probably up to about seven minutes, if I had to guess). Occasionally I think I can lapse into a monologue but it's rare, as apparently my narratives are lost on others, once we get through the two dozen juicy stories from my past and move into the weekly reports surrounding the here and now.

Since I'm kind of hungry for this, I generally walk away from a first encounter with a lot of information about that person, and feel fairly well-heard as well.

I take deliberate pauses, no matter who's leading -- my body language probably says 'this is great, but can we change things up a bit?' pretty often. I don't feel very shy inside but I've seen myself on video enough to know I look damned shy most of the time. Not sure about during a conversation, since being video'd is artificial.

I pepper all conversation with observations that universally produce a laugh. Apparently the way I see the world strikes people as -- wry, I suppose.


skin job

I liked the 'flash them some skin' idea (see a previous poster, above). If a very good looking woman walks past, and I'm relaxed enough to notice her, I can't speak (at all) for a full five minutes. Whatever was going on in my verbal mind previously is completely erased, like an Etch-a-Sketch given a good shake.

If it's the woman I'm with, too -- fuggedaboudit. Stick a fork in me -- I'm done. My head will be swimming in brain chemicals I don't know the name of.

... and I'm back quiet.

_____
my age is 5x (x is between 0 and 5).
 1388SmartBlonde
Joined: 5/15/2011
Msg: 25
Dating Snafu - MONOLOGUES
Posted: 6/25/2012 10:40:28 PM
Worst date I ever went on was with a monologuer...

He invited me to dinner, but instead bought us each one beer then started talking about himself and his problems. Not one single question about me or my interests, no eye contact. I could have put a cardboard cutout of myself on my chair and he would not have known the difference. After more than 2 hours of this, he finally paused long enough for me to ask if he was ready to order dinner. He said no, HE wasn't hungry. What the....???

I excused myself to the bathroom and left him sitting there. I don't think he caught on that I ditched him, though, because he emailed me the next week and asked for another date!! O heck no!! lol!!
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