Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 zookie57
Joined: 1/27/2012
Msg: 1
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?Page 1 of 1    
Is it Pure gasoline with no ethanol,& would you buy it even if it cost 5 to 10 cents in most places more & why?

Or do you like you gas with 10% ethanol? cheaper

Or now,do you like your gas with 15% ethanol gasoline? meven more cheaper

Or do you like the 85% blend ethanol for your vehicle? very very cheap....

I have to laugh as I read in the papers today[ NYTIMES],in how BIG Ethanol, the petro agi consortium is now pushing out 15% Ethanol for your car. what a bargain! lol And the kickers is they say is to help the American Farmers. wtf!!!!!!!!!!!! this shxt is Not Food!
Let alone not good for your engine, parts etc! never!!!

so lets hear it out there...........
 SingleGuy4912
Joined: 7/25/2006
Msg: 2
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/12/2012 5:50:45 PM
Pure gas is not available anywhere near me so even if I wanted to use it, I can't get it.

Even though the EPA has approved E15, not all cars can use E15. I own a Hyundai and the owner's manual says not to use anything with higher than 10% ethanol or the warranty is void.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 3
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/12/2012 7:39:02 PM
Ethanol is less efficient than 100% petrol, but when you consider its a food source and all those people starving around the world or the 50 million or so americans in poverty and the % of them veterans?

Demented.
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 4
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/12/2012 8:32:00 PM
not to mention.ethanol is a lot harder on engines..............espically marine engines...................and it actually costs more to add ethanol.................but the oil companies know that a lot of folks will pay more for pure gas

ethanol also drive the cost of a lot of other things up.........beef, milk, cheese, corn chips and anything that uses corn sryup.....................the price of a bushel of corn is way up.......a good thing for farmers?......not really.........because the cost of animal feed is also up

all in all......ethanol isnt such a great idea
 zookie57
Joined: 1/27/2012
Msg: 5
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/13/2012 6:31:09 AM

ethanol also drive the cost of a lot of other things up.........beef, milk, cheese, corn chips and anything that uses corn syrup.....................the price of a bushel of corn is way up.......a good thing for farmers?......not really.........because the cost of animal feed is also up


All good points and with the drought here in the corn belt, I can only imagine what the cost for these things will bring later this year on costumers at the supermarket here & overseas.

The Politicians who passed this mandate originally to counter OPEC ,or so they thought was nothing more then a drop in the bucket when you consider the cost in making ethanol.
And the mandate which thankfully is over but this new income for the pertro agi folks is still making the stuff regardless if your car or boat knows its detrimental to them.
I believe in free enterprise as that's business & you do have a choice nonetheless, in what you decide to buy & use.

And when I stuck in buying fuel with the 10% E, I pour in the tank a additive to expel the H2O & other determent's which is in ethanol.

And like that Old Fram Oil filter commercial which said, you can pay me now,or you can really pay me $$$$ later.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 6
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/13/2012 11:19:45 AM
A gallon of ethyl alcohol has a lot less energy than a gallon of gasoline. You need to feed a lot more of it into an engine to get the same power. The usual gas engine runs best on a vapor that's about fifteen parts air to one part gasoline. But for that engine to make the same power on straight ethanol, the vapor would have to be about twice as rich--say eight parts air to one part fuel. That means that when your car's using gas with ten or fifteen percent ethanol mixed into it, it won't go as far on each gallon. But hey--it's only money.
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 7
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/13/2012 5:03:32 PM
lol....gotta love that CARB thing in california.........getting folks to pay $5 a gallon for air
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 8
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/13/2012 7:10:20 PM
I'm sorry but the best bang for your buck is a cheap light regular gas car. End of story. Anything else loses. No alternative fuels get anywhere near the $ efficiency of a small light fossil fuel car.

Add up the cost of filling up your small cars tank for a year... Look at the cost of any car that doesn't use fossil fuels as main source. You will not get close to the $ savings as a regular fuel car.

That is why we have a problem with moving away from fossil fuels. It just isn't economical. Now if you were going to drop $50k+ on a car... there are arguments.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 9
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 7:10:19 AM
The US ethanol mandate was passed to support US farmers (a HUGE voting lobby) and to reduce US reliance on imports. It's worked to some extent to support those goals.

BUT it's overall a folly. Food prices are driven out of reach, engines are damaged and costs for drivers rise.

Check out: /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Energy_content_.28high_and_low_heating_value.29

Ethanol, per volume, has roughly half the energy of petroleum gasoline. Adding 10% ethanol is cutting 10% of your fuel's output by 50%, costing you roughly 5% of the energy you have paid for. But you NEVER get a discount for buying ethanol-blended gas!

And, of course, you get less maximum power output. A pain if you value performance, need to tow heavy things without over-stressing our engine, or have chosen a vehicle with barely adequate power for efficiency reasons. Your maximum range per fill-up is also decreased. The exact proportions vary according to a lot of variables from temperature and humidity to engine design, but this is the ballpark. The numbers never reverse.

Here in Canada, we don't have an ethanol mandate. A couple of fuel retailers promote their ethanol blends as "green," which is not true because of the inefficiencies of ethanol fuel production, but the nasty secret is that most of the other brands are using ethanol when they can get it cheaply. They make more money on the fuel AND sell more of it, too, to make up for the loss of energy.

They don't talk about it, but there's a little sticker on most pumps that says their fuel MAY CONTAIN up to a certain proportion of ethanol, which varies by grade. I have not seen top fuel grades marked as containing ethanol, but the price premium is so insane you'd never buy it for that unless you've got to make it through a long no-service area straining your range. Even then, a jerry can would be cheaper.

If offered a choice try asking them for a discount on the ethanol blend. See if they notice when we start noticing.
ED BEAR
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 10
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 7:39:17 AM
This is a good website for comparing mileage, gas vs. e-85.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=alts&path=3&year=2012&vfuel=E85&srchtyp=yearAfv

There is also the financial subsidies that do not show up in the pump price, and the environmental costs of drained aquifers, poisoned ground and surface waters from pesticides, the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico, and cancers in corn country.

We also should consider the morality of converting land from food production to fuels production. One tankfull could feed a person for a year.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/07/12/514943/the-corn-identity-the-us-will-make-ethanol-out-of-enough-corn-to-feed-412-million-people/
 zookie57
Joined: 1/27/2012
Msg: 11
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 8:26:45 AM

If offered a choice try asking them for a discount on the ethanol blend


Here in the US, it is cost less to buy the ethanol blend compared to ethanol free fuel but the trade off is like you said,poor gas mileage, detrimental to gasoline engines.


One tankfull could feed a person for a year.


Yes, the sorry fact in how our country is now used for other then feeding the world. They now pimp the soil for feeding your gas tank! Yep, there goes the john.....

And when you watch their commercials on TV, are they are telling us how green they are, or are they thinking of the other Green,$$$$$?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 12
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 9:57:13 AM
Wow props to the three ^^^

The conservative position has always been against it but the environmental position demonized so successfully that any way possible to be profitable was done... and it isn't good.

I am glad you are against it... But now what? The environmental 'save the planet' anything but oil is winning. It results in poor people not having access to fresh food and overall higher food costs and lower energy efficiency. That was always the argument against doing it. So now what? Ooops... just kidding?
 Bishopboat
Joined: 9/3/2010
Msg: 13
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 10:06:32 AM
Alcohol draws water. Water plus engine? BADDDDDD
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 14
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 9:06:11 PM

The conservative position has always been against it but the environmental position demonized so successfully that any way possible to be profitable was done... and it isn't good.

That's pure horse shit.

All the subsidies and incentives and regulations to favour ethanol was pushed by Senators from the farm states. Almost entirely Republican.

Furthermore, ethanol was never seen as a big environmental advantage by environmentalists. Yeah, it was pushed that way by the oil companies, but that was just green washing.

It was oil companies and Republicans that pushed for ethanol. The environmental position was the same then as it is now: the best thing to do is to reduce consumption.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 15
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 9:36:19 PM
That's pure horse shit.


http://www.people-press.org/2011/11/10/partisan-divide-over-alternative-energy-widens/

More Democrats and Democratic leaners than Republicans and Republican leaners favor promoting federal subsidies for ethanol production (45% vs. 32%). And Democrats are far more likely than Republicans to support increased federal funding for alternative energy research (83% vs. 53%)


I guess they just call it fertilizer...

I don't recall ever seeing a conservative republican driving a BIO Diesel car across the country stopping by restaurants and trying to get them to barter for there used 'vege oil'.

You really expect to be taken seriously saying that BIO diesel is a conservative republican scheme?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 16
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 9:44:47 PM
Look at the bills. Look who the sponsors are. It's not rocket science.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 17
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/15/2012 10:04:27 PM
Look at the bills. Look who the sponsors are. It's not rocket science.



What isn't rocket science is that this was opposed and became so over blown with environmental issues that not agreeing with it means you hate the planet.

The only successful thing leftists have ever done is demonize the right. Alternative fuels is a liberal agenda. at least own it. When it fails to pan out then you get to blame someone else. Typical. Being liberal only means 'never having to say you are sorry' No responsibility.
 zookie57
Joined: 1/27/2012
Msg: 18
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/16/2012 7:19:35 AM

It was oil companies and Republicans that pushed for ethanol. The environmental position was the same then as it is now: the best thing to do is to reduce consumption


Yes it was also a way to help the farmer, reduce oil imports, if there was a interruption of crude from the middle East,etc,etc,etc. Believe in what you want here.
Yet, with the cost of growing, shipping & refining corn, it takes $ 2.00 0f all this energy to make only $1.00 of ethanol! lol taken from a past 60 Minutes story.

And the ethanol lobby now has the foot in the front door & does not need a mandate to sell their product here.
And now it gives most US gas users the warm fuzzes all over in thinking it helps reduce imported oil. lol

And with all the fracking going on all over you think the price of oil will come down? no

And you think now it will because of the Keystone oil bonanza. Right, and let me ask you,as why do you think its being piped down to Texas instead lets say Chicago area refineries, like Lemont, or the other big refiners in the mid west,instead?

As most of this oil will be exported out of the US through the Gulf.
& later,if they gets the rights, west[Pacific] out of Canada to export to the Far East!
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 19
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/16/2012 7:37:59 AM
Thanks, guys - I was not aware you could still buy ethanol-free gasoline in the US.

Aries - it's not true that alternative fuels are still more expensive. Even without subsidies, natural gas is a better deal - though it IS a fossil fuel, albeit not a petroleum product. And electricity is WAYY cheaper in most parts of the country.

Not to be ignored, though, is the fact that neither nat-gas nor electricity is available in significant quantities to power our vehicle fleet without upsetting the whole fuels economy. Where you live affects what your electricity comes from and costs, both in terms of cash and other resources. There's a comparison of the relative "green-ness" of several classes of electric autos in the July 2010 issue of good old SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN. In general, the US west and southwest have good low-impact sources, while northeast and midwest areas use more coal and oil. The region around Illinois, New York and Ohio are where the plug-in hybrids and electrics fare worst, as well as the southeast excluding Florida.

blogs.mnhs.org/node/97 reproduces their graphic.

On the web, for per-mile cost comparisions, see:
www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/automobiles/how-green-are-electric-cars-depends-on-where-you-plug-in.html?pagewanted=all

SCI AM (the western hemisphere's longest-published English-language periodical, and my personal favourite Trusted Source), by the way, is a plentiful source of article on energy, climate, economic and other facets of transportation, and it presents numerous viewpoints. There's an excellent analysis in "The False Promise of Biofuels" (Though I'd rather call it the unmet promise) in SCI AM's August 2011 issue,page 59.

(Sorry I have no web references for you, but I tend to rely on my own stock of reference materials. Shouldn't be hard to find others.)

NOTE: exact DOLLAR-ONLY comparisons are hard to find and change with shifting resource costs. But the regional fossil-fuel content of electricity is about the same.

ED BEAR
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 20
view profile
History
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/16/2012 9:50:43 AM
Methanol makes more sense for cars than ethanol. You need to use more of it, too, than gasoline. But it might be possible to make it cheaply enough from coal that you could use twice as much per mile compared to gasoline and still come out ahead. Natural gas also works fine in engines, but the pressure tanks needed to store it as a liquid take up space and add weight to a car.

But burning any of these fuels still creates carbon dioxide. It's bad enough that humans create it--billions of mobile pollution sources! The planet has a fever, and humans are making it worse.


 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 21
What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?
Posted: 7/16/2012 10:48:53 AM
Re: Msg 9 - "I'm sorry but the best bang for your buck is a cheap light regular gas car. End of story. Anything else loses. No alternative fuels get anywhere near the $ efficiency of a small light fossil fuel car. "
I'm not sure I agree.
Keep your eyes on CNG vehicles. As the production of natural gas ramps up(sorry Puppy), this fuel is very clean burning , and can power almost any engine-driven device. My company has started using CNG tractor-trailers, in addition to gas, diesel, and all-electric trucks.
At this time, only Honda sells a car factory-made for CNG, but lots of conversions are available.
I have already heard complaints of coal mine layoffs, if that tells you anything.
AND, can we PLEASE ditch the term "fossil fuel"? That term is meaningless, seeing as how we have been using petroleum for hundreds of years but STILL don't know where it comes from, but for sure not from fossils.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > What is the Best Bang for your buck,in Gas to buy in the US?