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Show ALL Forums  > UK forums  > Feminism needed! - even in the womb...      Home login  
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 Richard_of_York
Joined: 12/4/2010
Msg: 2
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Feminism needed! - even in the womb...Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I'm not sure that it's something the (UK) government should directly be interfering in. Although it's clearly against our values over here, it is a domestic issue in another country, and particularly with it being an ex-colony I don't think direct intervention or sending government funds to agencies that are set up to target it would go down well with Indians.

However, it is good that the issue is being aired and I expect that lots of British and Western people will choose to privately help those agencies.

I do rather agree with the article though when it states that aborting or killing girl babies is a symptom of a deeper cultural problem, and the real solution is to increase the perceived value of women in society there. To be fair it does sound like the Indian federal and state governments are making some efforts in that area, but it takes time to change attitudes.
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 4
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Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/14/2012 10:19:17 AM
"female foeticide and neonaticide in India"
victims? they're the lucky ones!
do a bit of research on fgm and it's not confined to india, far from it!.
on second thoughts dont do any research, it's probably best not to know.
 DAFT_DOG
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 5
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Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/14/2012 11:11:14 AM
At the risk of appearing callous, with our own country in such a mess, i dont support sending hundreds of millions of pounds to other countries,even LESS so, when that/those countries, can clearly afford a nuclear arms branch, and an army and airforce that dwarfs our own, which has ironically been ( or in the process of being) cut to pieces in order to "save money" .

I could of course go on to mention the state of our own infrastructure, the nhs, education, poor roads, all would (should) benefit from the 100`s of millions we send overseas each year,( and which in many cases, probably never reaches the people who need it anyway ) .
 try1more
Joined: 12/16/2007
Msg: 6
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Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/14/2012 11:46:53 AM
pandora:
you may be interested in reading this article about that aid knew i had seen it somewhere.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/9061844/India-tells-Britain-We-dont-want-your-aid.html
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 13
Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/14/2012 2:58:17 PM
I remember reading somewhere that something like 4 X as much flows out of India, to the "west", as all of the aid combined.
I think we still have a massive debt to pay to India, much of this country's infrastructure and wealth was built in the immoral earnings of colonialism. We raped their lands of wealth and minerals. And the historic ownerships of western founded companies persists, despite their relatively recent independence.
Hence the flow of illegal capital out of the country. We bled India, and she continues to hemorrhage.

Our 'lasting legacy' there: a class system, sectarianism, and world-class corruption.
If India had been allowed to keep what it earned, they wouldn't be needing any more "foreign aid".

Almost a quarter of the world's population lives there, most, in abject poverty, we can't begin to imagine.
I'm not familiar with all of the reasons for an aversion to female offspring, but I think, as ever, the problems stem from age old customs and traditions, and religious practices, which people here, and there, are reluctant to change.

So they'd rather commit infanticide, than change the stupid tradition of 'dowries'.
Just another example of the hateful influences of religion and old tradition, as far as I'm concerned.
Just more deluded people, demanding "respect" for their BS.

 Guy_iam
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 14
Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/14/2012 3:55:11 PM
You expect a lot for £0. 21.8 pence per capita don't you? Further so far as Guardian is concerned, that rag is barely qualified as a cheap fish and chips wrapper, any notions forwarded there in deserve the same treatment: wipe and disregard.

Furthermore can you elaborate the "feminism" brand you refer to?
 Guy_iam
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 17
Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/14/2012 6:02:30 PM
In other words you are skirting around the issue, rounding off on the Guardian the discredited rag that aided and abetted the warmongers in their quest to commit mass murder, which as per Nuremberg Principles stands Guardian guilty of war crime .

India getting a paltry £0.21 pence per capita somehow is of some importance, although the strings attached thereof are blissfully ignored, and also ignored are the conditionality under which the said £ 0.21 is provided to Indians, as well as what expected returns are sought for in lieu of the said £0.21 are of no concern.

Sisterhood, apparently can communicate extra ethereally, therefore us males are not privy to such communications. Hence the lack of any explorations of the "feminism" brand that is subject of the current discussion.

So far as the "Female Gentile Mutilation" goes: this oh so dramatic depiction refers to female circumcision , which is custom of certain African Tribes ( ie the same as wiping one's bottom with toilet tissue instead of ablations with water and or certain bunch of grass) with a historical lineage, that is wrongly attributed to the Muslims. The fact that Jews as well as Muslims circumcise their male going missing, and none ever debate "Male Genital Mutilation " is a subject that never crops up, and no talk of "Male Genital Mutilation".

Finally what brand of "feminism" is being debated? What has the FGM to do with the "feminism" brand debated? Still remain a mystery to those of us without the uplink to the "feminine Ether".
 Guy_iam
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 23
Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/15/2012 4:10:07 PM
Pandora....

Given that Guardian is a suspect source, the arising question remains: Why did it carry this story? Further Why are you (plural punters) being told this bit of the events as oppose to the story of China stockpiling rare earth material? (this later portends of a coming protracted and bloody war in Congo, fomented by US Africom). However not digressing from the main thrust of the debate, regards the sums provided to the Indian authorities in the way of development aid.

Already this sum of aid has been alluded to as a bribe, hence we can safely assume that the cause it is likely to support is some slush fund which will be serving both parties involved in the transaction. In fact that last UK development aid episode managed to create a lot of dead Indian farmers whom under the burden of burgeoning debts, which they could not service, and faced with the subsequent loss of their farms, found committing suicide as the force-majeure. The numbers of the dead farmers attest to the success of that particular developmental aid.

The fact that Indian society is facing many problems, some of which are at the heart of their cultural constructs and very difficult to counter somehow is not taken into account. The caste system in India, that stratifies that society, and is the basis of most of the social malaise in India, having been overlooked and going without getting addressed. This makes any effort in rectification of those problems akin to application of a patch dressing to a gaping gangrenous wound in the hope and exception of recovery! This lack of progress is further encouraged with the idealogical struggles of capitalists ( more to the point gambling profiteers) that cannot tolerate any kind of “socialism” at its various flavours.

The feminism “Brand” that I referred to earlier, is the evident commercialised and the pop feminism that has descended into man hating hoards of disappointed and bitter (due to consumerist pressures) females in search of men to castrate and neuter these men in the way of rendering these more “sister friendly”.

Finally, the efforts in diversion of the sums of the development aid commendable as these are, somehow will not yield change, for there are myriads of loopholes that if utilised will change the modalities of the transactions whilst the actualities reaming static and in line with the status quo ante. Therefore, perhaps any attempts of change ought to be directed at education of the proletariat as to the nature of the caste system and its abhorrent results. This latter point must take note of the prevalent xenophobic and racist undertones, and rising above such unconscious drivel to directly engage the Indian society at large and invoke a debate within as to discarding this particular method of stratification of their society. (teach a man how to fish, and he will not go hungry, principle applied)
 Guy_iam
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 25
Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/16/2012 4:31:45 PM
Pandora,
A good post, you have clearly outlined the monumental struggle in shifting the current paradigms of social stratification in India, which inherently is biased against the very poor people whom are in urgent and greater need of a change in their circumstances, and conditions that they are forced to live under. This case is more painful considering the oodles of money the relevant Indian authorities have spent on acquiring nuclear weapons and building up a huge arsenal of various weapons systems.

Needless to point out that those middle men and manufacturers of the said weapons systems have been palming off bits of steel at extortionate prices to the said government, that in turn has been earning the sellers and their sales cadre handsome and huge profits and commissions. Furthermore the sad fact is Indian government is encouraged and pressured to do so by the "international community" (ie US, UK, et al), with the aim of pushing India to becoming the first line of defence for the "capitalist systems" in the coming war with China. The fact that the opportunity cost of such a lavish expenditure on killing technologies is at the expense of an arrested societal development and the greater costs born in the ineffective use of human asset in India (and elsewhere) is of no concern to anyone, and this has been further facilitated by the current trends that pushes the human needs and aspiration into the background given the profiteers priorities.

However without being long winded, the problems we face are systemic corruption that is compounded by the bankruptcy of ideology and paucity of thought. Therefore the paltry sums (albeit large in the scale of the normal run of the mill workers' pay structures) will not address any of the problems faced with the purported target demography of the said aid other than the usual headline generation and the brouhaha associated with such philanthropic gestures. ie photo-op for the relevant politico. Therefore perhaps it is time for the people to start rising above the kabuki played for their benefit, and address the fundamental flaws which are at the root of most of the problems they face.

Finally, I did not generalise I was only testing the school of feminism that was under debate, yes I do agree the tired old battle of sexes has come to be a burdensome affair, if women can be dispatched to fight in the front-lines then there is no need for any woman to be discriminated against. However as you know discrimination needs to have more than one front, and until such a time that racism (an absolute bilge belief structure, seeing as there no races in human kind, and race is a control construct) then females and those with ginger hair, or less pay, etc. can be discriminated against quiet easily.
 Richard_of_York
Joined: 12/4/2010
Msg: 26
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Feminism needed! - even in the womb...
Posted: 7/16/2012 4:37:19 PM
What is this, a thread on these forums where people are indulging in respectful and researched debate?
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