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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > What is going on will all of the shootings....      Home login  
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 faith2565
Joined: 3/25/2006
Msg: 1
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What is going on will all of the shootings....Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Yesterday I read and saw on the news the shooting of New York. It seems like everyday people or shooting or getting shot. A friend said this has been occurring in large numbers, the media is just now saying something. What do you think and why do you think it is happening?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 6:20:41 AM
If indeed it is happening in a greater amount, and not just a matter of the reporters waking up to it, I would expect it is because the economic downturn, combined with a political "leadership" that encourages everyone to see their neighbors as their enemies, as part of their strategy to get more votes, causes those who are already disturbed mentally, to crack.

This is a small part of why I am so hostile myself to those who frame all of their arguments about anything, with the allegation that their fellow Americans are actively "out to drag them down."
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 3
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 6:51:17 AM
"A friend said this has been occurring in large numbers, the media is just now saying something."

I'm wondering if the OP lives under a rock or doesn't watch the tv news or reads a newspaper. "...the media is just now saying something.". Really?
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 4
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 6:58:20 AM
It seems like everyday people or shooting or getting shot.

They used to have sword fights, jousting or duels. Did the "media" back then report them all except for local ones?
Maybe eventually in books or written/spoken legends.
Today with instant electronic media almost EVERY incident of multiple shooting nationwide/worldwide is fodder for national/local media to grab so that they have something to fill their minutes on the hourly news beside the usual tragic vehicle accidents/fires.

With over 310 million people in the USA there always will be some tragedy/shootings to report daily since most every disgruntled fool can obtain some type of weapon,
but wouldn't it be nice IF there were a few news organizations that would offset all that tragedy with an EQUAL amount of positive uplifting news events about people succeeding in their goals in life and "making a difference"..
Question is, would you and most people watch all the positive news segments as intently so the sponsors would continue to pay for them?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 7:31:55 AM
As for the "positive" stories idea, Tall, I watched as Turner Broadcasting tried to do exactly that some while back. Until they did, I too thought it would be another aspect of news balance. But after their effort failed miserably, I looked more carefully at my own behavior, and I think I know what the real trouble with that idea is.

The problem isn't that people are ghouls, or that they LIKE negative news, by any means. It's simply that most people do realize that the world is a fairly dangerous and tricky place, so we want to be kept up to date about what the dangers are. When a news channel launches into a "feel good" story, they have to keep it short and kicky (or make it lurid), or most of us will get an itchy sense that something bad might be happening that we need to attend to, and we'll change channels. It's really practical.

For that matter, look at signage. We don't want to suffer both warning signs, AND a bunch of "this road is actually pretty flat" signs, when we are driving. Just let us know when we have to deal with something.

But you are quite right in your expansion on what I was getting at about whether there actually IS a rise in whatever, or if it's just a rise in REPORTING of whatever.
 382838382838
Joined: 7/15/2012
Msg: 6
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 7:48:08 AM
I think the good news is that these incidents still disturb us. I hope it never gets to the point that we are all so numb and use to this that we don't find it disturbing any longer. Whenever there is a mass shooting there are usually copycats in other states. It does not surprise me to hear about yet another shooting of this magnitude close in time to the one in the theater. With the millions of people there are in the states, unfortunately there will always be a handful of very disturbed people that will harm others.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 7
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 9:05:54 AM
^^^^^^
I think darknight is on to something key: "others want be someone/go out in blaze of glory."
Maybe this is a common denominator, they feel their life is worthless and at least people will read about them in the papers, and hear about their life on TV, so they get a gun and shoot a bunch of random people, hoping that they will become famous, if only in a horrible way.

According to wikipedia, there are about 45 murders per day in America, so only the most lurid get put on TV. If you want nationwide media attention, you have to do it big.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 8
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 9:52:51 AM
I think it's weather related. Ya'll get a little wingy in the summer....


Although no one can say for sure why crime rises in the summer, many experts agree that the warmer weather and summer vacation brings more people into the streets, which can lead to higher rates of criminal activities.

In fact, it is estimated that murder rates rise about 16 percent in the summer, while rape and other violent crimes rise about 13 percent.

Another reason may be that that the hot weather leads to hotter tempers, leading to these violent crimes.

Biometeorologists believe that morale and state of mind can also be affected by the weather, which may cause some people to behave in a way they might otherwise never entertain.

They also believe that in hot weather the body produces chemicals that impair judgment and can affect concentration, which can lead to higher incidences of road rage, suicide attempts, street violence and even rioting.


You just need a good dose of Canadian winter to chill the f' out.

ps-snowed in the mountains on Friday.
 tygerpawn
Joined: 6/10/2012
Msg: 9
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 10:07:50 AM
Well Americans and their guns, you folks down there believe in carrying guns what do you expect?
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 10
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 10:21:23 AM
Economy has gotten bad in the last couple of years......
maybe the biggest reason.

No leadership in America........ it will get worse too if he gets re-elected.
 pescando75
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 11
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 10:49:58 AM

Well Americans and their guns, you folks down there believe in carrying guns what do you expect?

It happens the world over, even in places with gun bans in place. I just read not too long ago about such instances in China, for example, and the social class struggles were mentioned front and center as the impetus for such trajedies. Too much separation of the "haves" and "have-nots" going on in society everywhere under all this "Globalist" crap. The most marginalized and mentally ill occasionally lash out in response. So I might suggest things like better approaches to mental illness and its identification and treatment would go further than gun laws, as it still happens in places where NO ONE is supposed to have guns. But laws never stop criminals. That is why they are criminals. And there is no reasoning with crazy.
 Molly Maude
Joined: 9/11/2008
Msg: 12
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 10:53:29 AM
it seems the fellow who shot a co-worker in New York the other day ... those two men had a long
history of not getting along ... the shooter being one of those nice, quite types everyone warns
us about ... a nice loner who kept to himself ... the one who got shot being the big, loud-mouthed
type who annoy the quite ones ... there had been incidences of shoving and throat grabbing in
the past that had been reported to the police ...

when the quiet man lost his job, he blamed the bigger man for not having handled the sales of
the quiet man's products adequately ... leading to his loss of employment ...

when a person thinks he has his life under control ... then loses his job ... sometimes he loses
whatever control over himself he thought he'd had ...

so, in this case, maybe it's the economy ... maybe bullying to some extent ... maybe hidden past
experiences the shooter never dealt with ... who knows? but it's sad ...

and, yes ... with all the cell phone cameras, traffic cameras, etc. ... it's easier to announce more
news to the world ... and ... we do want to know what dangers to look out for!
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 13
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 11:25:43 AM
"Economy has gotten bad in the last couple of years......
maybe the biggest reason.
No leadership in America........ it will get worse too if he gets re-elected."

That's a crock o shyt and you know it.

It doesn't matter who is in power whether it's conservative or liberal, male leader or female leader or a charismatic leader or boring leader, a leader who is a religious fanatic or a leader who is black or any other damn reason to blame it on whom ever is in power today or tomorrow.

Maybe it has to do with the glamourization of events, the 15 minutes of fame connection. The love of guns. The trivialization of human life. The "I'm right/you're wrong" attitude or "win at all costs".

Folks weren't shooting everybody during the depression and that was far worse than any country's economic situation today. So to say it has to do with the economy and the dude that is President right now - give your stupid head a shake.
 OldSpice48
Joined: 9/17/2011
Msg: 14
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 11:46:21 AM
I don't understand why people get concerned about things like this, when there are far more important issues that should be receiving attention, like how much topsoil we're losing every year.
 STEVE4U22
Joined: 11/23/2011
Msg: 15
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 12:18:20 PM

I don't understand why people get concerned about things like this, when there are far more important issues that should be receiving attention, like how much topsoil we're losing every year.

I agree OldSpice we need to concentrate on issues happening up here & things that concern us.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 16
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 1:10:01 PM
The New York shooting in particular, is actually a good example of the way that the dynamic of news reporting can contribute extensively to whether or not there appears to be a "trend" in something.

Two people were killed there, the murderer, and the person he blamed for his troubles. That sort of thing DOES happen all over the world, pretty much without regard to economics, or other things that are going on. What makes it appear that this murder was a part of some sort of trend, or connected phenomenon, is the reporting alone.

Poorer people kill each other every day, without anyone coming to ask "are we dealing with a national shift in human behavior?"

But reporters and "news" businesses, regardless of their political twist, are and always have been susceptible to FADS. Since there were a couple of larger mass murders recently, this particular one was reported as though it was another in that same group, even though it was not.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 17
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 1:42:50 PM
I agree with Igors first post.

This is intensified by the fact that you have a Government and media which has reenforced the low value of the human life over and over again. Couple that with the: poverty, desperation and frustration that's being thrown on so many "en masse" , it's not so surprising.

I'm pretty sure that making the tools to kill people less glorious and easy to access may help too.

*shrugs*

Cars dont drive cars; people drive cars though right?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 18
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 2:28:00 PM
Yup, I just saw that too. This is still an unfolding story, and appears more and more to have been more of an assassination of an ex-coworker, followed by bystanders being injured by authorities, and not an attempted mass-killing. Again, only part of a "phenomenon," or "trend," by accidental mis-reporting by journalists.

Lot's of us at all levels of life, are subject to reacting to early reports, by assuming we are seeing confirmation of our fears or expectations. Even those of us who try hard not to be.
 SexyKG74
Joined: 3/15/2009
Msg: 19
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 8:13:21 PM
I agree with Igor's comments as well...

I have a corporate position within the fashion industry, and my office is on Fifth Avenue, literally a stone's toss from where the incident happened by the Empire State Building.

People in my office who had their windows open heard the gun shots...I did not. About 5 minutes before the shooting started, I was walking towards the elevator on my floor so I could go to Starbucks (which is diagonal from Empire State Building) to get some gift certificates for people in my department. Suddenly, my building's fire alarm goes off. A couple of my co-workers were in the hallway, and we stared at each other. I joked "I'm going to go back to my desk to get my belongings, and then walk down stairs." Less than a minute later, someone got on the intercom and said it was a false alarm. A co-worker shortly after came into my department...shaking, saying a shooting had just occurred.

My thoughts go out to the man who was shot (the VP of Sales). This of course was an incident that should have never happened.

While the story is still unraveling, it made me think as my office of course had a few conversations about it. A few years ago, I read an article saying office bullying has actually increased in recent years. Then I thought about things I've seen over the years while working in the fashion industry.

It is an industry where I've met some of the nicest, hard working people...yet I've also met some of the most meanest, pretentious people as well. Depending upon the environment, both I and some of my friends who have worked at other places have encountered the following:

-The fashion industry is a place where many are called, but the chosen are few. Yet it is common achieve a great level of success at a young age. Many because of hard work, long hours and sacrifices...(it's common to meet someone who makes $75K-$100K before age 30). But some people also get to this level more because of who they know, how they look, and who's *ss did they kiss. I've noticed some of these people let the glamour and glitz go to their head...I think in a sense of just being able to say who they work for...because again, it's a hard industry to break into and stay in. Especially the ones who have been at a particular company for a long period of time. They walk around the office as if they are "untouchable/safe in their job." I have seen people bully others to different degrees.

-Then you have the "pretty people." At many companies, these people can do no wrong. Imagine someone in a meeting coming up with an idea and it getting shot down by higher ups...yet when a someone else brings up the same idea, it's embraced?!? I've seen this happen several times over the years.

-While not everyone is like this, I've also worked in environments where it's almost like a co-ed fraternity. People will form alliances with certain people in the office if they feel by doing so makes them "protected" from losing their job. I feel this is happening even more, especially since the economy crashed. A company that I worked at years ago was big on this. When restructuring was announced, I saw people stab people in the back if it meant by doing so would make their position more secure. Then people within that inner circle started turning on each other. Fast forward to about 2 years ago...NONE of them are at the company.

-Some people are quick to say certain things about other people to shed a negative light to a higher up. I've seen people play "tag team" and start saying negative things about a particular co-worker...when the deal went down, the person being talked about lost their job.

By no means am I saying this does not happen within other industries, but if you could see what I have, I'm at the point where nothing shocks me anymore.

Again, we don't know the entire story...and of course when the media speaks with people, some will tell the truth, and some will be biased and only shed positive or negative light on someone. Again, shooting someone is not the answer. But to be honest, the first thing I thought was the following:

Sales people and creative people within fashion companies are often bickering. The sales person complains the product the creative people are developing "isn't good enough." Yet, I have encountered many sales people where if they do not like a collection that is developed, they will not pitch it, or at least with their normal sales passion to retail accounts.

They say the shooter was laid off a little over a year ago...and still unemployed. He was in middle to late 50s. They say he and the VP of Sales (who was murdered) bumped heads a lot. The unemployment rate in the metro NYC area has recently increased again. A few people have told me the trend right now is to take a job that pays around $75-80K, and give it to someone who is young and bright yet with couple of years experience who can grow into the job and pay them $45K-50K. This is especially common in fashion companies that has less than 50 employees. Put it this way, unless someone is at Director or VP level, you do not see companies rushing to hire 50-somethings for a job in the fashion industry...they want the young person to be "the face" of their company. (I'm not saying this is 100% of the time...but this DOES happen.)

In the local NYC newspapers, the victim was described as the "good looking, athletic, fashionable guy who always had sexy women around him." The gunman was described a "the quiet/loner who was a walking time bomb." A neighbor said "I never saw him with a woman...he was such a lonely man." By no means am I trying to defend the gunman, but just because a neighbor never saw him with a woman, it doesn't mean he was lonely. Now maybe he was...but what I'm getting at, people who truly do not know someone are often quick to make statement about someone in order to paint a particular picture of someone.

Again, my thoughts go out to all of the victims...
 Maybe_Have_Some_Faith
Joined: 8/18/2012
Msg: 20
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/25/2012 8:52:37 PM

The gunman was described a "the quiet/loner who was a walking time bomb."

That is so hilarious and that's the media for you. ROFL

If he was a loner no one got too know him well enough to discover he was a walking time bomb.


Again, we don't know the entire story...and of course when the media speaks with people, some will tell the truth, and some will be biased and only shed positive or negative light on someone.


A good point and it is a known fact that witnesses of crime can give such contrary versions of what they just saw. In Canada and less so in the U.S. the media has started to insert meaningless posts from twitter into there news stories. Most of which are just opinions. Unfortunately these opinions can become the truth thus beginning something akin to an urban legend.
 Bezoa
Joined: 7/2/2012
Msg: 21
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 12:59:17 AM
I remember having a lot of rage at some point in my life. My job was delivering flyers, and newspapers (has little to nothing to do with the rage), and I lugged the load around in a blue shopping cart. I used to say to my friends; "if you ever hear on the radio that there's a guy pushing a blue shopping cart, and killing everybody in sight, you'll know it's me". Rage is not always logical, but I remember being very fond of the daydream of going on a shooting spree. The rage as toned down now. I am no richer, but the idea hasn't crossed my mind for years.

I think that living in an illusory world can blend reality to the illusion. All this stress, coming from no real threat. All these obligation, these problems, which don't have a real base. So many things in our lives come from such unreal sources, that unreal actions can seem normal to some. Of course, I'm just crazy.

I'm reminded of this movie "Shadow Hours", he says it better than I do. Gotta go find it now, it's been a while.
 Iredurbio2
Joined: 3/6/2009
Msg: 22
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 1:22:52 AM
All the truly nut job cases are the scary ones.Poor Gabby and the people just going to a grocery store.
This lady and her staff are setting up card tables for another ask your congress person.The friggin media
beat the living crap out of every story for days.That's always an ego boost for the for the perp!Then it's the
law enforcements turn to dig up crap on these people and try and make someone feel safe with thier same ole
explination.Damn if we would of shut that gate fer them horses got out this would'nt of happened.
Now when it gets a little chilly out here everybody and his brother are going to be packing at movie
theaters.How many people have dropped thier cell phones?I thought i had it on safety.Sorry it just fell out
of my pocket.You can always have another kid.
Poverty has gotten to a butt ugly proportion and we're fighting about whos going to win our billion dollar
plus presidential election.Is there any good new oscar contenders coming up for the holidys.
I do love holiday flack sweaters.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 23
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 2:27:54 AM
It's funny how some people view NYC. They say this or that, with regard to how NYer's are. I lived there more than 50 years..I traveled quite extensively around the country and the world. In a different business than fashion, the financial industry...

I will say in response to one viewpoint offered here, it can be a tough town. Success is measured and taken, and yes, it can be demoralizing for the faint of heart or spirit. YES an idea put forward by a weaker individual, will be shut down...then presented by someone with confidence embraced. Doesn't that happen everywhere?

I won't go into gorry details, but found some who were shunned, acted out in less than stellar ways. I doubt that changes from industry to industry.

Does the media sell the story? Of course they do, no matter the circumstances, the media spins the story to evoke emotion and either a championing of the protagonist, or a damning of same. It gains them viewers or readers depending on the medium in question. Does this make it easier to understand, he11 no! Sales requires personality...you never sell the product..you sell yourself! So it makes for an interesting dynamic. Production is a different animal...first the design and then the delivery of the finished product.

I found most people the same, some were nice and others not. No matter the industry.

Sorry to many, I have the same issue I have and will have. The easy availability of guns, the lack of caring whether it's in Boise or NYC, about the guy next door. I'm a strange duck....I live currently in a 10 apartment building...over the past 3 years, we have had a number of people move in and move out. Normally, I would say I know all my neighbors, and even those in the surrrounding buildings. I am usually the first to meet them, and then introduce them around to others in the building.

I know people in my complex, from a good distance away. When I was growing up, I knew people as did my mother, from 3 or 4 buildings away. In fact we knew most on the same block. Now it is not uncommon, for many people to not know who lives in the next apartment, no matter the town or state! We are becoming a nation of loners, transsients! We could care less about Mrs so and so, carrying in her groceries. Or Mister whats-his-name and his problems. We simply put our heads down and walk into the place where we live, and never want to say "hello"...

Doesn't this play a part?
 SexyKG74
Joined: 3/15/2009
Msg: 24
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What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 3:45:35 AM
(YES an idea put forward by a weaker individual, will be shut down...then presented by someone with confidence embraced. Doesn't that happen everywhere?)

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not referring to that type of scenario...

I'm talking about when someone actually does present a concept in an articulate, compelling way and it gets shot down...and then someone else literally says the same thing and it is praised. I've seen this happen. I once worked with a male co-worker who was experiencing this. Whenever he said anything, you could tell by one of the higher up's facial expression that the person speaking was not liked. That's how the guy knew his days were numbered.

Again, I'm not saying this does not happen or is not capable of happening at other types of work places...I'm just referring to what I've seen while being in the industry (almost 20 years).
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 25
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 5:21:58 AM

Yesterday I read and saw on the news the shooting of New York. It seems like everyday people or shooting or getting shot....

It only seems that way, because in reality it is very far from that:

http://marginalrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Violence-Stylized-2.png

http://marginalrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Homicide-Table.png

The bottom line is that there has been a big and welcome decrease in homicide rates in Europe and America over the past several centuries. To put these numbers in perspective, however, note that the homicide rate in New Orleans today is 52 per 100,000 and in Detroit it’s 40 per 100,000 so even with a lower average there is lots of variation. Brazil today is around 22 per 100,000 not too far from America in the 19th century. The homicide rate in El Salvador is 71 per 100,000, in Jamaica (!) 60 per 100,000 and in Honduras 67 per 100,000 — all higher than fifteenth century Europe. Thus, the past was a more violent place but not so violent as to be unknown to the present.


Read more at: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/long-term-trend-in-homicide-rates.html




...A friend said this has been occurring in large numbers, the media is just now saying something...

I think you freind does not have a clue about the real world and possiobly watches far too much TV.




...What do you think and why do you think it is happening?

What is happening is news organizations are now nothing more than "Information for Profit" machines and they know that to get ratings they need to make things are dire as possible, thus they are guilty of sensationlizing everything and making more of something that it really is.
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