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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...      Home login  
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 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 1
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
So I started going to al-anon & I already go to OA. I went to Al-anon last nite & I told about my history w/ my crazy mother, my alcoholic ex hubby & dating unavailable men & one that I had a crush on in the past. Then many other women commented on it too, talking about how they also had pined for the wrong man. Some moved on & remarried, one made her marriage work until his death, some are like me, dating & tired! We are trying to learn how to see that we attract or are attracted to the wrong men & break the pattern.

If I was more emotionally available I would not engage in liking unavailable men. A normal man would have asked me out a while ago. A normal woman would have realized that & went w/ someone else.

My question is: As a middle aged woman, if I meet someone socially IRL, at what point do I give up when they do not make themselves available to get to know better? We here on POF seem so used to getting a # & meeting 4 coffee or a drink, discounting that person & saying : "next!" IMO...that when something OTHER than that happens, I am confused...
 LiliMarleen
Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 2
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 5:55:34 AM
I'm not quite sure I understand your question correctly, but I would stop considering someone, as you say "when they don't make themselves available."

When it feels that I want more than he is willing to give, right off the bat, I would stop considering him.

I've learned now by being with a man who IS available, what it feels like if a man is all in.

I just never have that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach anymore.
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 3
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 6:37:30 AM
If your idea of someone getting to know you means spilling all your lifetime baggage your in worse shape than you think. Nobody wants to hear all your mother and things from 10 or more years ago.
You must think some kind of full disclosure is required for getting to know someone better... and its not.

Your opening OP is all over the place... one would not even know what they question is based on what you wrote.
When you meet someone socially you give up when they show no interest.. learn to read body language and it will sure help.
 L0thari0
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 4
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 7:22:53 AM
IMHO people with this problem (both men and women) put all their eggs in one basket. You meet someone and decide they are the one before you really know who they are. Later, after you have more emotional investment, things go wrong and you can't walkaway because you feel you'd be giving up so much of your investment. It's like a gambler that won the first few hands, but still won't leave after the game has gone cold. He give it all back and more.

The answer is to date around more. See several people at once and choose among them and don't lose your head after only a date or two.
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 5
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 7:27:31 AM

So I started going to al-anon & I already go to OA. I went to Al-anon last nite & I told about my history w/ my crazy mother, my alcoholic ex hubby & dating unavailable men & one that I had a crush on in the past. Then many other women commented on it too, talking about how they also had pined for the wrong man. Some moved on & remarried, one made her marriage work until his death, some are like me, dating & tired! We are trying to learn how to see that we attract or are attracted to the wrong men & break the pattern.

If I was more emotionally available I would not engage in liking unavailable men. A normal man would have asked me out a while ago. A normal woman would have realized that & went w/ someone else.

^^^^Inside the meeting...


As a middle aged woman, if I meet someone socially IRL, at what point do I give up when they do not make themselves available to get to know better?
outside of a meeting- very diff than IRL...and very diff than online...how long would the average middle aged man take to ask a woman out if he knows & likes her from IRL???
I've done mostly online dating...when they hand out their # too fast, red flag, when they don't, red flag...online usually if u exchange #s by 3 emails it is all good. But in real life, it all goes differently...it's like learning a new language...
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 6
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 7:39:13 AM
ooooooo....

so what do you expect in those kinda meetings anyway? people who are mentally healthy?

those types tend to stick together and live life by rules of the pact... ( 12 steps) as they make poor choices.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 7
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 8:29:36 AM
if I meet someone socially IRL, at what point do I give up when they do not make themselves available to get to know better?

It's a discretionary judgment call. It's always easy to know when you see something that makes the big "no" flags pop up, but if you like someone you give them the benefit of the doubt. Some people are more cautious or reserved, and slower to warm up than others. Others want to warm up too fast because they're in a hurry to get somewhere called "being in a relationship" --> emotionally needy. Still others will play push-me/pull-you and you never know if you're coming or going.

I'm ok with variations of slow as long as it's within the range of normal. If it's so slow that I lost interest and/or got the idea that the guy is just armored like hell, then I'm out. It's not my job to make him all better. I'm definitely not okay with "too fast" because there is no substitute for the time it takes get to know someone properly, and I'd run like my pants were on fire if I ever came across another "push-me/pull-you" personality. One of those is enough, thanks!


If I was more emotionally available I would not engage in liking unavailable men.

Sure, there is little to no emotional risk in liking someone who isn't available, because at least you can succeed in predicting the inevitable failure and that's sort of a backasswards substitute for confidence when you weren't starting out with much of it. On the other hand, being "emotionally available" isn't like opening the barn door for just anyone who shows up. You might have good reasons for being emotionally unavailable at least for a little while. It's a sign to look more carefully at what else is going on and resolve whatever that is first; it's not really a signal to just lay down like a doormat because somebody called you standoffish.
 WeebitRusty
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 8
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 9:16:11 AM
I have a little saying taped to my wall in my office, it says: "If someone seriously wants to be part of your life they will seriously make an effort to be in it."

OP, I commend you on seeking answers for a screwed up past. This is growth and learning which should never stop.
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 9
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 9:25:00 AM
TY, ^^^^ we can choose our partners, but not our parents...
I know better now, I tread carefully, but at least I still tread!
 jaqi
Joined: 2/2/2008
Msg: 10
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 9:45:05 AM
B_A ... it tk me ags t rd yr thrd cos ther wer 2 mny shrtnd wrds ... y cn't ppl wrte n ful thse dys!
 ohenryx
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 11
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 9:54:00 AM
First off, let me say that my hat’s off to Blonde_Angel for having the courage to talk about these things openly.

Some of the people in this thread do not seem to have a clue about Al-Anon and similar organizations. I have known a few alcoholics in my time, and have come to learn quite a bit about the subject. And I probably should be going to OA, but I’ve never been much of a joiner, preferring to try and do things on my own.


Blonde_Angel
We here on POF seem so used to getting a # & meeting 4 coffee or a drink, discounting that person & saying : "next!" IMO...that when something OTHER than that happens, I am confused...


I myself have had far too many initial meetings from this site. I am seriously beginning to think that I may need to re-evaluate, change my strategy, my methods.

ON EDIT: Can someone translate that post just above mine? The one by “iaqi”. I would be willing to run it through an online translator if I had any idea what language it was in.
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 12
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 10:48:24 AM
Some 12-step groups have restrictions about members dating other members, specially new ones. Al-Anon may not have them, or they may not apply to all members, but it is part of the 12-step culture and for good reasons.

It would be a dual-relationship, the boundaries of disclosure and confidentiality would be muddled.

It would be difficult to share openly of my personal problems, challenges, weaknesses and failures in the group if a prospective SO or romantic interest was present, even if dating guide-lines permitted.

For peer-therapy to be a safe and effective place, men and women need to be able to share and receive support openly, without being on guard for the presence and distraction and interference of their own or possibly other people’s sexual/romantic alignments and agendae. My opinion.

And of course this applies to members' behavior outside the meeting as well as in.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 13
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 10:58:23 AM

ON EDIT: Can someone translate that post just above mine? The one by “iaqi”. I would be willing to run it through an online translator if I had any idea what language it was in.
Allow me…


B_A ... it tk me ags t rd yr thrd cos ther wer 2 mny shrtnd wrds ... y cn't ppl wrte n ful thse dys!
Blonde_Angel, it took me ages to read your thread cause there were too many shortened words. Why can’t people write in full these days!

Personally, I wouldn’t consider a group therapy session/group to be a place to meet someone for a potential relationship. That just screams desperate if you ask me…

Best of luck to you OP…
 U make it entertaining
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 14
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 12:04:40 PM
OP ...

About the same age, same sort of background, and yes our parents were fvcked up.
They lived through the war.
Unfortunately there was no psychiatric help for them back then.
Instead they did the best they could with what skill sets they had.
And most of those skill sets revolved around drowning out their experiences in alcohol.
Very sad ... but that's how it is.

Don't get me wrong ... I have (had) a lot of anger with my Mom for the stupid things that she has done,
But I started my journey on my healing process when I was 36.
I believe that I have now come to the open waters and can forgive her for her behaviour.
Because .... She did the best she could with the tools she had.

Because of that upbringing, and lack of examples
I chose the wrong men.
Two of them.
And now I choose NOT to make another mistake.
With that choice, I bypass a lot of men.
I tend not to give them a chance.
Before I would even consider going out with someone I run mass scenarios in my mind on "What if...?''
And most of time I decline as I see some sort of problem down the road.

I can see that I'm not as open as I should be.
And at this point in time, I am OK with that.
I have learned to REALLY enjoy being on my own.
I tell myself that I am not beholden to anyone.
I do as I please when I please.

In time I will step out of my shell
But it has to be the RIGHT type of man to cox me out.
And I don't think it will be one from a dating website.
As this system is too weird ... and I believe I've become too jaded.



As a middle aged woman, if I meet someone socially IRL, at what point do I give up when they do not make themselves available to get to know better?


I don't make any moves on them, or even anticipate a relationship starting
So I don't have to think about when to give up.

I figure ... I am a very intelligent, honest and sincere woman.
One day a man will notice this, and he will make the move to try and get to know me.
I will wait for that day.
Until then, I will live my life with joy and purpose.
And enjoy every moment of it.
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 15
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 3:17:14 PM
Ok let me clarify- I am not looking to date men from Al-Anon...it's mainly women there anyway...we talked about relationships when I was last at a meeting.

So I am so used to doing online dating, that when a man or men from IRL show interest sometimes I am clueless unless they r quite literal & just chase the H-E-L-L outta me.

No I do not chase men, but if I bump into one I like IRL, I do smile, make eye contact & try to talk to them about NEUTRAL subjects...

I agree, someone said that some people have no clue about 12 step programs (paraphrasing)

I do not like bad boys, but nerdy types. I do have qualities I like, but also I have to fill his list & he must be emotionally available...

And no, I am not desperate, but very selective ;oP
 Greatcatch12345
Joined: 5/2/2011
Msg: 16
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 3:19:38 PM
I read between the lines..close ur legs to married men, sister!!!
 moonchildMN
Joined: 9/28/2012
Msg: 17
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 4:04:04 PM
Hi OP-I swear we are living the same life :)

I give up on a guy when it's obvious they are not emotionally available. I am now acutely aware of when a guy blows hot and cold, just like dear old dad. Once I sense cold, I remove myself from the situation, sometimes I will say good-bye other times I won't.

I have learned, and as hard as it is on me, I won't pursue guys who really aren't available, whether that means unavailable by distance, age, too busy with work, with hobbies, with healing, etc.

But for everybody else, this is just my opinion and what I do for me. As I looked at my dating past, I've always gone after the guys who are hot and cold, which in the end mean me know good AND the funny thing is, these are not "typical" bad boy types, I seem to attract the walking wounded.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 18
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 6:13:56 PM
The answer is....
when you find yourself doing all the relationship work.

I am a guy, but have bumped into women that were not emotionally available.
(at least toward me...not sure about toward others.)
But whether they were that way just to me or in general...
there was a point when I felt that the relationship was not deepening.
and that I was the one wishing it would and trying to deepen the bond.

when I get to that point I usually bring it up.
and that usually ends it or brings about an end.

To get what we want....
We have to be strong in letting go of someone not into us.

If strongly attracted to the other...we can try very hard to make it work.
and can get very needy/crazy in doing so.
But most times....we are fooling ourselves.
 softshoe100
Joined: 8/3/2011
Msg: 19
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 6:16:56 PM
Hey we all have baggage. It's just how you handle it and if alnon helps then good for you. Don't know about real life but just keep chugging and improving yourself and someday maybe that guy will come along in IRL.
 Moonchild51
Joined: 3/11/2007
Msg: 20
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Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/1/2012 7:02:49 PM

I read between the lines..close ur legs to married men, sister!!!


^^Wtf? Step away from the coke! lmao
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 21
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/23/2012 2:58:04 PM
I've come to the conclusion if they waffle or drag their feet, then don't hold ur breath...a man who wants a woman will not wait & let someone else grab her up!
 VenusandAdonis
Joined: 8/24/2012
Msg: 22
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/23/2012 3:17:06 PM
It takes two..
I usually leave it up to the men to ask me..if you are interested in a 2nd date suggest it
 noorejustgems
Joined: 10/11/2012
Msg: 23
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/26/2012 6:56:51 PM
Just had to comment on what you wrote about the "foot dragging". You are so right, and I too, am learning that lesson every day. It seems like all of those great looking bad boys......fall under that heading of foot dragging LOL. I think the book Hes just not that into you, said it pretty well. If a guy really is into you......you will KNOW it. You don't have to talk a guy through a relationship, if he really is into you :o)
 funandfloating
Joined: 10/12/2012
Msg: 24
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/26/2012 9:54:32 PM
I dont think this is the right place to meet genuine people and increasingly am thinking this when I read the forum posts.

You are right in that you do attract what you project and once you realise this you can make improvements. You may have a real commitment phobia and so go for the unavailable and the disaffected. It does all start with family relationships but I would also look at your father and how you related to him. I dont know if you are an alcoholic as well??

As for the bad boy syndrome we are entitled to one or two I say but need to wise up and realise we deserve better as that is at the heart of it all. Masochism...
 jerzee59
Joined: 8/21/2012
Msg: 25
Al Anon, emotional availability & older men & women...
Posted: 10/27/2012 1:33:26 PM
Wow,thats a little harsh,people who have a 12 step program have a design for living,they may have made some poor choices in the past,but it's apparent if they are working a good 12 step program,they are once again on the right path to a happy and peaceful life.

It's a shame we all weren't born as perfect as you!!
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