Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 timeforall
Joined: 8/26/2012
Msg: 1
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Let me come right out and say I do not believe in a personal God like so many on these threads who defend the existence of God. But for all of those who are God fearing, does anybody have any rational explanation how or why, if there is a personal God, he is so cruel to his own creation. The number of people who are in despair throughout the world, the people in pain, the people suffering physically and mentally, the sheer numbers is incredible. And God created men from a lifeless lump of clay to suffer so? No decent human being would torture their own pets so. Why does God torture his most prized creation? If he is GOD, why can he not simply end all suffering by decree? He would sure make a believer out of me.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 2
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 12:35:40 PM
Please explain to me how do we as humans who are unable to see the events of the future, know the final outcome of this suffering?

Further please explain to me if it is this God doing these acts of cruelty or is it by the hand/actions of mankind?
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 3
view profile
History
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 12:39:58 PM
Why do you think God is cruel?
It's mankind who is cruel.

Change your words from FEAR to respect and obey ( the words or teachings).


<div class="quote">
No decent human being would torture their own pets so.

that is a person torturing a pet, not God torturing a pet- we all have free will


<div class="quote">
The number of people who are in despair throughout the world, the people in pain, the people suffering physically and mentally

Life is not being happy all the time. Life is a test.. you make choices... bad ones often end in unhappiness.


<div class="quote">
Why does God torture his most prized creation?

I see mostly people torturing other people...


<div class="quote">
If he is GOD, why can he not simply end all suffering by decree?

all suffering ends when you die, not while you are alive... you have eternal life... no where does God say life is supposed to be painfree... what your problem is, is you don't know who God is or what he does.
The only way for you to now this is to read the words... if your not willing to do that, you will never know.
If you learn who God is, you will learn how to deal with human suffering and why it takes place.
 timeforall
Joined: 8/26/2012
Msg: 4
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 12:46:23 PM

Please explain to me how do we as humans who are unable to see the events of the future, know the final outcome of this suffering?
Further please explain to me if it is this God doing these acts of cruelty or is it by the hand/actions of mankind?


What does knowing the future have to do with my question? What is the point of people suffering in the PRESENT? Disease of the mind and of the body is a function of our creation. If God created man and created biology and designed our bodies, then he is responsbile for what ails, what inflicts us, for the very way we think. If there is a God, there is no such thing as free will. He has predetermined everything we are and everything we do. Still my question stands. WHY do so many of us need to suffer so?
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 5
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 12:57:20 PM

What does knowing the future have to do with my question?


Everything.

If one looks towards past events of humans overcoming great adversities and society benefiting as a whole one can see the logic and reason for my question.

Remember: Past, Present and Future when asking questions towards this God. You seem to only want to focus on the Present and not see the lessons of the past and apply them towards the future.
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 6
view profile
History
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 12:57:43 PM


WHY do so many of us need to suffer so?


you demand answers based on what you refuse/ want / are capable of understanding.. like when my kids were little I'd say "wash your hands before we eat" and get a fit from them.. lol
 timeforall
Joined: 8/26/2012
Msg: 7
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:03:01 PM

you demand answers based on what you refuse/ want / are capable of understanding.. like when my kids were little I'd say "wash your hands before we eat" and get a fit from them.. lol


Well if you are that intellectually superior and can answer my question in understandable terms, I am all ears. I am looking for a rational reason why man is forced to suffer in the present, not some gobbledygook about the past and the future, unless somebody can explain logically and rationally what one has to do with the other. After all, if there is a God, an omnipotent being who created us, who created the world, then he is responsible for everything in it, including all of the suffering. I don't see how anyone can really argue with this simple logical conclusion.

Let me put it this way, God purportedly created man out of a lump of clay and woman from man's rib, or something like that. He took nothing and made it something and then blames his own creation for its failures. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me. He should take full responsibility for all of the problems we have endured instead of blaming us.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 8
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:15:44 PM
Well if you are that intellectually superior and can answer my question in understandable terms, I am all ears. I am looking for a rational reason why man is forced to suffer in the present, not some gobbledygook about the past and the future, unless somebody can explain logically and rationally what one has to do with the other. After all, if there is a God, an omnipotent being who created us, who created the world, then he is responsible for everything in it, including all of the suffering. I don't see how anyone can really argue with this simple logical conclusion.


Well now, that is a rather trollish bullying reply I have read in a while.
If this is how you are going to engage in conversations then so be it.

Did this God invent automobiles... No that was mankind.
Did many people die or live with injuries as a result of the making of these automobiles... yes. Is that this God's fault... No. That is mankind's fault, yet you want to project and blame this particular God for the deaths resulting from mankind's actions.

Did the outcome of these deaths result in better safety features, seat belts, airbags, administrative controls, etc. Yes.
Do people still die as a result, ... yes.
Why, because humans choose to ignore the safety controls and administrative controls in place.... Free will.

Edit to your edit:
So because "you" do not understand it... that makes it someone else's fault...
Maybe try to understand it before you make the accusations....

Maybe you should start off with explaining that you are speaking of the commonly referred to Christian God instead of leaving it up to the readers to discern what God you are speaking of.
You do understand that there are 10,500 religions in the world and that there is more than one Deity worshiped .
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 9
view profile
History
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:23:04 PM
No one is going to spoon food you the info you seek... not even theological uni... you have to get your own info. Go find a local bible class to start.
Get a bible and read it. You do not understand anything about it if you think God is responsible for you because he made you.
That is like saying when your kids grow up if they kill someone, they should punish you too for the crime.
 timeforall
Joined: 8/26/2012
Msg: 10
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:25:55 PM
really nice try to belittle my argument and then provide an answer that was not responsive to the question there Travis. Accidents are of course one form of suffering, but I am thinking more in terms of biological sufferings. You know, those nasty diseases that strike people down in the prime of their life, leaving young children behind, or that put people in wheelchairs unable to move, or that destroy food crops, resulting in starvation, or those biological disorders that causes pathologies and psychoses and cause people to do terrible things to other people. That sort of thing. I mean God could have created all men to abhor violence if he chose, could he not? Oh Wait, wasn't the God of the bible kind of cruel. Lets just take a look at Genesis:http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Genesis

Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8

"I will destroy ... both man and beast."
God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17

"Every living substance that I have made will I destroy."
God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4

"All flesh died that moved upon the earth."
God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23

God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram's lie. 12:17

God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10

Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6

"I will not destroy it for ten's sake."
I guess God couldn't find even ten good Sodomites because he decides to kill them all in Genesis 19. Too bad Abraham didn't ask God about the children. Why not save them? If Abraham could find 10 good children, toddlers, infants, or babies, would God spare the city? Apparently not. God doesn't give a damn about children. 18:32

Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8

God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24

Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26

God threatens to kill Abimelech and his people for believing Abe's lie. 20:3-7

Sarai tells Abraham to "cast out this bondwoman and her son." God commands him to "hearken unto her voice." So Abraham abandons Hagar and Ishmael, casting them out into the wilderness to die. 21:10-14

God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13

Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:10

"Because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son."
Why did God love Abraham so much? Because he was willing to murder his son for him. (Greater evil hath no man than this, that he is willing to kill his own son for God.) 22:16

Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31

"The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." 35:5

"And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7

After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10

After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24

Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19

God brought a seven year, "very grievous" famine on the whole earth for no apparent reason (except maybe to make Joseph wealthy). 41:25-32, 54


No one is going to spoon food you the info you seek... not even theological uni... you have to get your own info


Let me see if I can interpret this. "I really don't have an answer for you". As I suspected of course.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 11
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:32:01 PM

really nice try to belittle my argument and then provide an answer that was not responsive to the question there Travis.

Then present your question/argument in such a manner that is not degrading and accusatory. Take responsibility for your demeanor and bullying/trollish conduct and stop blaming others for what you present.
You are speaking of the commonly referred to Christian God. This particular God works in the past, present and future. Just because you do not like and or understand this does not make it childish or wrong. It just shows that you do not understand it. That is your problem in comprehension, not anyone else's problem that you are trying to project guilt and blame onto.
 timeforall
Joined: 8/26/2012
Msg: 12
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:34:37 PM

Then present your question/argument in such a manner that is not degrading and accusatory. Take responsibility for your demeanor and bullying/trollish conduct and stop blaming others for what you present.


I see. Its not that there is simply no logical, rational answer to this simple question, its just that my question is degrading and accusatory and I am somehow a bully just by asking the question. So far, not one person has been able to explain in a rational, logical manner the answer to my question . . but who knows . . maybe somebody will come up with something.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 13
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:35:26 PM

Many more people have died due to god and or religion than automobiles ..........so your analogy sucks

You are correct, way to many people have died "In the name of any God"
funny.... you are now on the attack for simply providing one of many analogies to answer an individuals question.
Guess you are no better than those who have hurt another in the name of a God.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 14
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:37:34 PM
I see. Its not that there is simply no logical, rational answer to this simple question, its just that my question is degrading and accusatory and I am somehow a bully just by asking the question. So far, not one person has been able to explain in a rational, logical manner the answer to my question . . but who knows . . maybe somebody will come up with something.


No, you are a bully and a troll for your replies to those who have taken their precious time to try and provide you with an answer to which you turn around and degrade and belittle them.

If it is truly a simple question, then how is it that you do not have the answer to it?

anyways...this thread is over for me. Good bye and good luck in your search.
 gcdeb
Joined: 4/25/2011
Msg: 15
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:37:56 PM

well now, that is a rather trollish bullying reply I have read in a while.
Really? The only thing close to an insult that I see is the use of the terms "intellectually superior" and "gobbledygook". They aren't exactly harsh - I feel more a sense of frustration from the OP because people are not actually answering his question.

The rest of the post is just asking for people to provide valid arguments to support their claims. Of course it's open to how the reader applies their own perceived tones to the OP's writings.

It's not wise to jump on the 'cyber bullying' band wagon just because you don't like what someone writes.

OP, logically there can be no satisfactory answer to your question. I often wonder what lesson we needed to learn from the tsunami that killed 250,000 people? I'm not sure that little girl and boy opening Christmas gifts needed to have a life lesson that day?
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 16
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:50:58 PM
Further please explain to me if it is this God doing these acts of cruelty or is it by the hand/actions of mankind?


Today approximately 5000 children died of cancer. Please explain to me how that is by the hand of mankind.
Virtually all of them prayed to one god or another to be cured, as did their family and friends. No god answered their prayers today, nor did they answer the prayers of the 5000 children who died yesterday, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before.....

I have little interest in a god concept whereby children are allowed to suffer because of some bizarre 'plan' that a god has for the 'future' - that he either is too selfish to share with his creation.... or too embarrassed to share.

Instead, I will focus on the parsimonious position that there either are no such petty, cruel, sadistic gods, or that if there are they are not in the least measure worthy of respect, much less worship.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 17
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 2:27:00 PM
Today approximately 5000 children died of cancer. Please explain to me how that is by the hand of mankind.
Virtually all of them prayed to one god or another to be cured, as did their family and friends. No god answered their prayers today, nor did they answer the prayers of the 5000 children who died yesterday, or the day before, or the day before, or the day before.....

I have little interest in a god concept whereby children are allowed to suffer because of some bizarre 'plan' that a god has for the 'future' - that he either is too selfish to share with his creation.... or too embarrassed to share.

Instead, I will focus on the parsimonious position that there either are no such petty, cruel, sadistic gods, or that if there are they are not in the least measure worthy of worship.


Yes, but is this by the hand of this Christian God, by the hand of one the other God's out of the 10,500 religions of the world or are they a result of the hands of mankind with the induction of untold chemicals prevalent in our food, clothing, plastics, homes... Asbestos, MDF with Urea-formaldehyde resin's? Does mankind have this desire to blame a deity of one predominant western societal belief structure for all the pain, suffering, cruelty that is happening now. How about we blame the Greek Gods, oh wait how about we blame Thor... oh wait he was just a demi god.

Why this "need" to blame anyone or anything? I see this a lot in western society mentality... it seems to somehow make everything better when the mentality has someone to focus their anger and hostility on. Oh this guy is the bad guy lets go linch him. Oh wait this belief structure is the bad guy let's go linch all of them regardless of if they are innocent or not. Oh wait this God is the bad guy let's go linch him and subsequently attack in a mob mentality anyone who attempts to offer a potential analogy to offer one of numerous possible answers.

Cancer is not unknown to me. My brother is in chemotherapy (round 2), my mother is still in the hospital recovering from breast cancer surgery. My father is in treatment for skin cancer. My wife had a hysterectomy due to cancer...

Oh and FYI. I have no belief in this commonly referred to Christian God. Christianity is a culmination of 38,000 sects under the umbrella title of Christianity.... hell they can't even agree on there same book so another sect is created... our version is correct... no, our version is correct... repeat... ugh.

The old testament was created over a period of 400 years by the leaders of numerous tribes. When fear was the common and normal manner to control the populous. The new testament is a joke to say the least. Repeatedly transliterated throughout the centuries from its original language of Aramaic to the modern language of English.

Why blame an ideology?
Hell why even attempt to entertain the idea of blaming an ideology?
Why blame a character of a book by superimposing some sort of super powers and superhuman attributes onto this character?

If it makes you feel better by blaming, being angry at, or questioning a God character or God archetype , then hey, all the power to you.
 TwistedAir
Joined: 9/24/2012
Msg: 18
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 2:46:31 PM
Can you see it, touch it or smell it? If not you are doing mental masturbation over nothing. That fairly tale book is a bunch of BS.

Guy with the tie: Build me Noahs Arc and populated with all the animals in the world 2 of each. If you do that Ill hand you over a Deed to one of my houses. LMAO
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 19
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 2:51:55 PM
Well Bill Cosby said it best... "What's a cubit"
I still laugh to this day along with many others who enjoy Bill's works.
 tygerpawn
Joined: 6/10/2012
Msg: 20
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 2:55:01 PM
read Psalm 81:12
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 21
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 2:56:22 PM

Yes, but is this by the hand of this Christian God, by the hand of one the other God's out of the 10,500 religions of the world or are they a result of the hands of mankind with the induction of untold chemicals prevalent in our food, clothing, plastics, homes...


You're rambling. The OP asked the simple question - "IF god, why is he cruel?" No one has 'blamed an ideology'. God as an omniscient, omnibenevolent entity has been called to task for the apparent cruelty of allowing children to suffer. My answer is simply "No god(s) exist, therefore there is no active cruelty being perpetuated on mankind." On this, we appear to be in accord, no?
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 22
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 2:57:28 PM

read Psalm 81:12

Which version of the Christian Bible would you suggest?
And why should I waste my time reading yet another transliteration?
 tygerpawn
Joined: 6/10/2012
Msg: 23
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 3:00:10 PM
any version and do as you please its your life not mine.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 24
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 3:01:00 PM

You're rambling. The OP asked the simple question - "IF god, why is he cruel?" No one has 'blamed an ideology'. God as an omniscient, omnibenevolent entity has been called to task for the apparent cruelty of allowing children to suffer. My answer is simply "No god(s) exist, therefore there is no active cruelty being perpetuated on mankind." On this, we appear to be in accord, no?


Why blame or call to task a character of a book in the first place?

That is like saying Harry Potter is responsible for all the cruelty of the world...
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 25
If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?
Posted: 10/7/2012 3:05:06 PM

any version and do as you please its your life not mine.

How about the original version as the rest are nothing but copies... oh wait, the original version is not available....hmmm
The closest we have as a society to the original is the Vulgate Bible. Have you read it?
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > If there truly is a God, why is he so cruel to mankind?