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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.      Home login  
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 moonwalkerman
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 1
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Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.Page 1 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
I am not a US citizen, but I am very interested in the presidential election, as many people around the world are. I am just interested in one thing, and that is without bias: what aspects of life have improved for you Americans since Obama is in the White House ? Seems to me that the answer to that question should be the motivation for everybody's choice...
 DRKKNGHT193
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 2
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 2:47:51 PM
I'm voting for a real Progressive, Jill Stein. If that say anything to you.
 moonwalkerman
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 3
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Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 2:53:36 PM
Jill Stein...I had to look it up. I did not even know there was a Green Party candidate...ouch, sorry for being an ignorant foreigner. We pretty much only see a choice between the Republicans and the Democrats.
 DRKKNGHT193
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 4
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 2:57:50 PM
Things haven't changed for me, he hasn't gone after Wall Street, he's given us a terrible healthcare bill which isn't Single Payer and has been more right wing than he purported to be. So, yeah from now on I'm voting Green or Socialist.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5
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Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 3:20:14 PM
Our existence is way too complicated for such an over-simplified question to have any usefulness.

What you will tend to get in response, are a scattering of angry people who would say their lives got worse under who ever the President was, even if they made more money, got more sex, and received more praise.

You will also get a few people who will say the opposite, simply because they hate the OTHER party.

Almost no one who actually tries to answer accurately, will have the time and the access to information required to know what they are talking about when they report back (and no, an internet connection and access to a Google search bar doesn't count as a reliable source of complete and accurate information). Even those who genuinely try to tell the truth, and don't just parrot whatever exaggerated talking points their favorite "news" outlet or talk show host spouted, are unlikely to have the complete reasons why whatever happened to them, good or bad, actually did so.

For example, my life under Obama has been decidedly worse than it was under Bush. But that is because during the Bush administration, the country was being driven off a cliff, and Obama took over as the country was about half way down the ravine. So did Obama make things bad for me? Not really. Did he fail to do enough to make things better? I can't be sure, because there's never any way to compare what HAS happened, to what someone says WOULD have happened "if."

Did Bush cause all the trouble we're in? No, of course not. A mess this big is beyond the abilities of even a concerted, malevolent dark lord of evil. It took two large political parties at least fifty years of back and forth idiocy and self-delusion to make this mess what it is.

If Romney wins, and things do get better, will that be entirely because it's Romney and not Obama? Nope. If Obama wins and things get better, will that be entirely because he won? Nope.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 6
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 3:35:38 PM
My spin on the election - The US Government is massive entity that pretty much is too big for any one person to handle, despite all the promises and commitments candidates put forth.

90% to 95% of what the government is DOES NOT CHANGE no matter who gets elected, but that little 5% to 8% of what CAN be changed is what all of the fuss is all about. Seems kind of contrary to all the drama put forth in election advertising, but that's really all there is to it.

Economically, my world has NOT improved terribly since about the year 2000. There was a small recession back then, and when the country appeared to be recovering, the 9/11 attacks happened. Since then, the US's interests - both in policy and economical - have been getting spread all around the globe. War, resources, manufacturing - it's not all in our backyards anymore, and it never will be again. What that means is when companies have a profit, or when taxes are applied, or when policies are changed - it's no longer a 40% margin that changes - it's more like 1.375% Having any type of 'healthy' growth no longer comes in piles, but in chips.

The Gov't has tried all kinds of changes since then to make something 'big' happen - messed with the interest rate, started wars, given out huge discounts in the form of lower taxes and rebates, etc... but the fundamental problem is that those changes will no longer play out in short-term, large percentage changes - it's slow and small stuff.

When things got their worst was right around the time 'W' Bush left office and Obama took over. How much 'blame' Obama is given for hitting bottom is completely dependent on which party you're interested in. Whatever change that has happened since then - good, bad, or otherwise - has been slim. Whether or not you vote to re-elect Obama or vote Romney - the US is going to be a slow-moving giant for some time to come. Any promises it will become greater than that is a lot of hot air.
 Dncdesign_Broken_Profile
Joined: 8/24/2010
Msg: 7
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 4:35:09 PM
Barack Obama has taken a bad situation and make it worse due to lack of experience - history books will judge him.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The Federal Reserve Bank is a private bank - Thomas Jefferson
 Sandyfeet79
Joined: 7/30/2012
Msg: 8
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 4:55:10 PM
+1 and every dollar that enters circulation already has debt attached to it. So in order to make payments on the debt you'd have to borrow more money with debt attached to it too.
 sunshine21201
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 9
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 5:13:37 PM
I prospered under the Obama administration because the housing market was so bad, and kept falling, that I was able to buy a home with instant equity at an outrageous 3.75% on a 30-year mortgage. Thank you, President Obama!
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 10
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 6:00:05 PM
My life has not improved greatly since Obama's election.
But my son's has.
As I can now insure him.

But that isn't the main factor.
Mainly I fear how horrible my life can become if Romney is elected.
He may be a great guy.
He may be a decent and good president.

But he wants to end my son's insurance coverage.
and do away with my social security.

Last election was about hope.
This one is about FEAR!

Romney..Ryan...Akin...and the whole zealous ideological lot of them scare the heck out of me.
after all.....if they screw up they can always say "My bad" and retire to their big mansions
like the last Republican President did.
Untroubled by the fallout.

But I will have to endure the folly of their theories....
if those theories don't pan out.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 11
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Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 6:08:14 PM
I agree it's hard to compare, for me personally, it's been awful but Fla's unemployment and housing have been higher than some areas.

Anway, you can't equate economic conditions with the economy under Reagan, or even Clinton. Economic systems evolve over time, so a prior recession and a current recession aren't going to be the same, the numbers/factors are much too complex for a simple side by side comparison. Also, my education and professional experience is in accounting and business, so I'm not just talking off the top of my head.

The economic aspects of the recent debates, there are partial truths for one reason to fully explain would require the education/knowledge/background. That's why there's so much just crap being put out there, in the debate AND the political ads because the average voter doesn't know that it's not the full picture and the people who create those ads use that ignorance to their advantage. If it were fully explained, people would fall asleep or be dumbfounded halfway through. This isn't new to this election process, either.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 12
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/17/2012 9:21:40 PM
I won't pin four years on Obama

As he clearly stated in the debate last night, the middle has been struggling for over a decade mainly due to Bushes policies. Obama stepped in to clean up Bushes mess, and congress refuse to let him succeed.

While I am in the same boat I was four years ago, I have faith in Obama that he will get as much done in his second term.

Republicans will continue to spew nonsense, knowing that the economic issues in this country is their own fault. Yet they continue to falsely blame Obama. With every bill he comes out with to rebuild America, congress shoots it down to make sure Obama is unsuccessful.

They refuse to pass the job acts bill, and yet continues to manipulate the naive US citizens buying into their nonsense.

If Romney wins, then the world should definitely come to an end.
 laskoboo
Joined: 2/12/2010
Msg: 13
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Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 6:14:59 AM
I see nothing Obama has done for USA and feel if he is given another 4 years, it will end America and be the start of a more or less socialized system.. the beginning of the end.
People are willing to give up their rights as citizens ( the constitition) for things like mass socialized healthcare.. one in which you will wait in lines and get substandard care. ( what a mess of ineptness that will be)

I am voting for Romney

Also... on a personal level... I have decided to end any friendships with die hard liberals in my life. I do not care to be friends with them if they are willing to go to a socialized system.
This is a first for me, but the older I get I see less and less room in my life for die hard liberals... or their ideas.
 PROTON67
Joined: 4/26/2012
Msg: 14
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 7:15:32 AM
I'll just give one statistic (out of many) to answer the OPs question. Under BO, the average family income has gone DOWN by thousands while the average cost of living for a family has gone UP by thousands. So, no, things have not gotten better under BO. Things have gotten worse overall.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 15
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 7:23:34 AM
Re: msg 13 "They refuse to pass the job acts bill "-
As a nation, we are "up" 125,000 jobs with Obama, and we won't even mention how well those jobs pay.
If you figure out how much we spent to get those 125,000 jobs, it's not hard to figure out why we don't want any more Obama "jobs bills" .
It's much cheaper to just keep people on unemployment forever.
 DRKKNGHT193
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 16
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 7:34:25 AM
There's been 4.5 million jobs added since Obama's been in office. You got it wrong. I disagree with him and even know that. His jobs bills may have had some substance, but the majority of it has been pandering to right wingers who don't like to listen who are so entrenched in their beliefs they can't conceive of doing anything different so everyone's a neocon now.

Voting for the same people and principles that got us into this is, shows how stupid the American public is.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 17
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 7:55:03 AM
Bobcat Goldthwait said this maybe 20 years ago;
"You can't blame the President for everything that's wrong with this country. That's like blaming Ronald McDonald if you get a bad cheeseburger."


There's thousands of variables that have come into play that affect our everyday lives, because the internet and media have become a global network - we're more informed about things going on; and can also be more influenced.

30 years ago a revolution in Libya would have been celebrated, and the price of oil would've barely flickered. Now the mere THOUGHT of rebels shutting down ONE oil port is enough to make gas prices climb. A hurricane that hasn't even hit Florida yet makes gas prices change, even though it may NEVER hit the oil platforms in the Gulf Coast. Fear is being used by EVERYone to manipulate things to their advantage - including the election. I'm frankly sick and tired of it. If I had any say over campaign reforms, it would be to have an outright ban on negative advertising, or at least a steep enough fine that it wouldn't be done.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 18
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 7:56:05 AM
^^^^^^
"There's been 4.5 million jobs added since Obama's been in office. You got it wrong"
Sure about that?

Approximately 386,000 additional jobs than what were previously recorded were added to the economy from March 2011 to March 2012, giving a total net positive of 125,000 jobs under the Obama administration. That agency had initially undercounted by about 20%. The increase not only completely undermines the Romney campaign's claims that Obama "hasn't created one single net new job since he's been president," but goes on to put the president in a positive net job growth territory for the first time since the economic crash.
http://leanforward.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/29/14152118-signs-of-economic-recovery-a-boost-for-the-obama-campaign?lite
(excerpted)

Read again - a TOTAL of 125,000 NET jobs for the Obama administration,,,,, of course this article is 6 months old, but have the numbers really changed?
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 19
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 8:35:58 AM

" ... what aspects of life have improved for you Americans since Obama is in the White House ? ... "


Say 'NONE' ... This man's agenda is designed to humble, cripple, and ultimately destroy the United States of America as the world's sole remaining superpower and remake it in his neo- / anti-colonial Marxist-Alinskyite vision of a 'Greater Zimbabwe' or 'New Uganda' with command-and-control 'government'. He already practices on a routine basis the circumvention of Congress by issuing his 'diktats' (a/k/a 'executive orders') and appointment of - what? - 40 'czars' who are clearly extra- / non-Constitutional and who were put in place by appointment precisely to sidestep Congressional scrutiny and confirmation. NOTHING has 'improved' (to use your word) since 20 January 2009. Things WILL improve immediately the morning of 07 November 2012, when he's tossed onto the ash heap of history as another failed Communist toady. He will be replaced with a President who is proud of his country and who does not bow to any foreign plenipotentiary. His 'Apology Tour' for America is over. Time's up for 'The Un'.
 Red_5
Joined: 1/23/2010
Msg: 20
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 8:37:57 AM
Eh...I say we blame the Arabs for our current issues and leave it that.

The Arabs blocked Euopean contact and trade with India and China around 1400 AD which led to the Portuguese, Spaniards, and Italianos to explore alternative trade routes for stuff they wanted.

BTW that brings me to my second source of blame: the Indians and Chinese have always made the junk Europeans and later Americans wanted...just ask Sam Walton.

Anyway, we get all these Europeans galavanting around Africa and one of these freaks decides to cross the Atlantic which leads to a whole host of issues like drug addiction, alcoholism, obesity, and lung cancer from New World products.

So yeah, the Arabs forced the Eurpeand to come to the Americas so they are the source of all our issues.

Blamin' BO, Junior, Slick Willy, Ray Gun, etc is not worth the effort because the "Desert Hawks" screwed with us first long before the Gulf War or 9/11.

Back on thread, BO or the Mittster, it's all the same because it ain't either's fault.
 DRKKNGHT193
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 21
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 8:58:05 AM
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3252

You're using only 1 year. I'm using 3.

@SweetDanimal: You make some very valid points.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 22
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Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 9:41:27 AM
"The left feel the more people the gov't takes care of is best for the country.
The right's belief is precisely the opposite in that the less people gov't need to help means more people taking responsibility for themselves which is best for them, their families, their communities and their country.

The welfare rate has risen 32% in the 4 years of Obama so many ARE better off in the left's perspective."

Yes, that's a basic perspective, obviously it's a little more complex but isn't everything about government more complex than it appears?

The big whoop about planned parenthood, I didn't research the numbers, but how dare Romney suggest that we have to PAY for birth control, sarcasm intended...haha. I paid for my own birth control, , but this makes the point that the more services the government offers, the MORE taxes they have to collect or the MORE they have to borrow. That's simple economics. So if you don't MIND paying more taxes so the government can give away more, then the choice should be simple.
 pescando75
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 23
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 11:24:57 AM
Sweet Danimal makes some great points. Pay attention to those.

I see the U.S. as just another "member state" now of the United Nations and the IMF.
Everyone seems to think so locally about jobs and corporations and politics and "the rich" and they make it seem like its still all based HERE in the U.S. Everything is so global now. Our Constitution has become buttwipe.

The founding fathers warned of political parties and corporations, and for good reason. With the two party charade we have now, both sides can be controlled by the same financiers and everything beyond that is meant to whip people into a frenzy under the guise of "choice" as these shadowy IMF world financiers continue their agendas unabated while we squabble amongst ourselves.

Another poster offered up the quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson. I love that quote, as it so succinctly sums up what we are seeing pan out before us.

It is said that the Emergency Banking Act of 1937 placed the U.S. into bankruptcy receivership to the IMF.
That's a complex topic to follow, but from all the off-shoring of jobs and the massive debt we are in, it's not hard to see this happening right before our eyes.

As to Obama and Romney? Which Harvard lawyer do you want? Does it even matter? Same puppet, different disingenuous "messages" they try to present. The Supreme court gave license to the financiers to control both sides of the equation. The people are pretty well locked out and at the whim of bankers and the corporations at this point.
There is no answer to be found with Obama or Romney. Only hot air.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 24
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Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 11:36:46 AM
"The people are pretty well locked out and at the whim of bankers and the corporations at this point."

I agree, but I think any reforms would start with election campaign laws and lobbyists. The problem is, obviously, that we're so gridlocked by partisan politics, how do the PEOPLE dig their way out? I don't feel that corporations or any type of organization should be able to contribute to any party. Campaign contributions should require an SSN no. that would be verified. If contributions were limited to actual PEOPLE, then it would level the playing field and break the stranglehold of special interest groups and partisian politics. There has never, to my memory, been a third party candidate who had a chance to compete with the big bucks of the two parties. I also think there should be a cap on political campaigns, a set dollar amount whether it's 10 million or whatever. The spending on these tiresome ads alone in the midst of economic crisis is deplorable.

But who's going to do it, how do WE the PEOPLE take back control of the leadership that we supposedly elect to run the country for our best interests?
 pescando75
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 25
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/18/2012 12:57:11 PM
^^^ The gridlock Congress always professes to be working under is a delusion. Isn't it miraculous how many of them "cross the aisle" (often at midnight on a holiday weekend while no one is watching) to cast that decisive vote for things like the health care law no one wanted in the form we got it. Time and again.

Ultimately, the course of this nation keeps on chugging down the same tracks/path controlled by a very select few and the party in power matters not. Things like the United Nations have to go, as we essentially have governments outside of governments calling the shots with no representation of the people, and the Federal Reserve system does not answer to the people either, but these shadowy bankers of the IMF. Campaign finance laws are tough to address when monetary policy itself is so skewed.
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