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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?      Home login  
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 JONITA
Joined: 8/24/2009
Msg: 4
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Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I feel your pain. I met a guy last Saturday who claimed that he was looking for a relationship. It turned out that he was just looking for a casual encounter. I guess he thought I would take one look at him and be consumed by uncontrollable desire. Anyway, he didn't get what he was after, so he has since blocked me. You're not wrong. Some people are just liars. For some men on here, it's just a numbers game. The more women they can" get with", the better. Then it's on to the next one.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5
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Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 3:45:54 AM
Well, first of all, when it comes to the purposeful liars and cheats of the world, what makes you a target isn't anything more than the fact that you exist. Everyone is a target for them. So you really shouldn't feel special on that account.

As a long student of factual history, I can assure you that the era has nothing to do with it either. Human behavior in general has not changed, for as far back as can be determined. The only thing that does change, is the local cultural acceptance of how open about it people are.

If you are "going about this wrong," which I suspect you are, it is because you are expecting forces and authorities outside of yourself, to be responsible to see to it that your standards are met, and your desires fulfilled. While I would never support those who claim that it's acceptable that they have no compunction about lying and cheating their way through life, I still consider that it is each of our responsibility to "make honesty happen."

The reason why lots of people are successfully victimized by scammers every day, is because they actively help the scammers to win. They go for the pretty face, and ignore that everything coming out of the face's mouth conflicts with reality; they see a chance for wealth, and convince themselves that other things don't matter, or they get so hungry, that they pretend that the crude slop in front of them is a sumptuous and nutritious meal.

What specifically you are doing to fool yourself, I don't know you well enough to say.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 6
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 4:09:49 AM

Human behavior in general has not changed, for as far back as can be determined.


Maybe not, but the "acceptance" of some of our behavior has. Seems that nowadays that a little fib here and there to "get" something doesn't bother a whole lot of people. What we use to "value" and what we "value" today are quite different. Guess it's the sign of the times????

Part of what you are finding with the actions of these guys is confusion for one. What they "think" and what they "know" could be quite different. You will also find a lot of "feelings" not "wanting to hurt" someone. In fact, there are some posts here and there in these forums with questions from people on how to do something without "hurting someone's feelings". I use this as an one example how the art of communication is slowly fading and people not knowing how to handle light forms of "confrontation".

It's up to each person what they will accept and what they will not. With that,you will have to take comes with that. With me, it's not hanging around a whole lot of people. Something I really have no problem with,and confirmed almost daily.
 amohsin8
Joined: 9/6/2012
Msg: 7
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 4:56:09 AM
OP, there are scores of guys on here looking for a long-term relationship. You just have to do a better job of picking them out. You can figure how serious a guy is by the amount of he's willing to spend on getting to know you without pressuring you for sex.
 intercom5
Joined: 5/20/2012
Msg: 8
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 5:07:09 AM
OP, you're kinda naive. In a sweet way, but still...

1) If a guy writes that he is looking for casual only, how many normal stable women (or any women, for that matter) would respond? probably close to zero. So, he "has to" write something more acceptable.

2) it's also possible, but a lot less likely, that he thought you're an extraordinary woman, one of a kind, who deserves real relationship from him. But then he met you and decided you're just like the rest of "them", and downgraded you to casual only.

I'd bet for #1 tho, but the 2 are related. Don't take it personally. You're not here to provide therapy for messed up men. Move on. Good luck.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 9
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 6:06:06 AM
1) there are men who play games, yes...because the games work on women who play games as well. what can you say, if some women decieve themselves into looking for superficial things...are you a foolish man to not go along and give them the superficial they crave?

2)honesty only works for those who can handle it. We all know we're going to die, for example, but is it really first date conversation material?

3)if you can handle honesty, then its easy to find--you listen for it. Instead of looking for what you want, you instead look at what's there. Liars reveal themselves instantly--their stories are too good to be true.

4)one mistake many make, is to put their cards all on the table, and hope to get a good response. what that does is give a victimizer what he needs to push the right buttons. He knows what you want, so he can present himself as that.

instead, listen to what he says--it'll either match up, or it won't. have a good time on a date, BE a good time, listen closely. don't spend the first time trying to test the other person, b/c looking for results means you tend to "find" them, even if they aren't there.don't focus on "does he fit my list"? just enjoy the time, the event, the company. if you can't enjoy the company, then you got your answer. but when you get people to relax, they open up. and then, again, you get your questions answered, by never asking them :)
 Debyduz_
Joined: 5/4/2012
Msg: 10
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 7:09:22 AM
Because if they check IE it reduces the number of available women.
 privat33r
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 11
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Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 7:22:43 AM
"First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner ."

Intentions are difficult to discern or devour. Maybe look at the 'long term' in its pieces. - when we were young no one wanted that. Long term relationships were the result of temporary relationships that simply went on,.- decades. It was convenient to stay with people that we were only having a bunch of problems with and not every little thing. Our dates got used to us- tolerated our mass of foibles. They went from a lot of messing around, to sorta steady, then less- maybe lots less, but trust and more or less a good feeling about the situation.

Lots of us tend to form longer relationships, but that doesn't mean we can intend to do that, particularly if the drives and situations that once made that work don't apply. I mean- I met my high school sweetie a few years back. We dated a year and a bit but she'd never lived with a guy in her life. Twenty strong types of compatibility can't overcome socialization problems -- and - lots of us dudes have become very grumpy (they say its normal). It might be difficult to mold us to that form now- no matter what we'd like.

OP, from my perspective it seems you're complaining that guys may be offering to trade an outline of long term commitments for the initiation of a relationship that ends up not going past bonking. That's probably not how extended situations grow, when we were young they were molded from close passionate stormy situations that formed into relationships and settled. Remember how our friends were so alarmed when it happened as youngsters - it was like we'd died to them.

I'm not really sure how they happen now. Lots of us are looking- but wearing a sign that says so isn't going to make it more likely - even if I only talk to the ones also wearing that sign. My guess is I'm more likely to find a tattooed drama queen packing 30 bad attitudes and no plan to stay past a week. She'll never go. I'll have a snake on my cheek at Burning Man.
 YourBrandNewGuy
Joined: 10/1/2012
Msg: 12
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 7:57:08 AM
Wow! You are being so used and abused for sex? At your age you shouldn't be making generalized statements as to how "men" find it so hard to be honest.
You can't go to a different era but you can learn how to deal with this era (the best yet if given a choice).
A lot of people are looking for long term but eventually find out the person they are dating is really not for them . Then women say they were used.
I also hate cheats and liars but can spot them a mile away. Us guys also run into them but it's not sex their usually after, they just lie about tons of stuff. Not all women but some people of any gender.
If this happened one or twice get over it, it it keeps happening then work on self education because you can't change all the men and most are not what you describe anyways so find out why you get gulled into this stuff if that's whats happening.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 14
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Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 9:23:47 AM
Some people lie some don't, most are in the middle somewhere. It's your job to make sure you know the other person before you get involved. Blaming everyone else, like a whole gender, is a big sign that you aren't being responsible for your own actions. Women don't end up with lying man after lying man without first picking to be with them.

As for wanting a relationships, no one can do that without first getting to know you, and if they find they don't want to be with you after getting to know you some what, that doesn't mean they lied, that means they didn't find you to be the person they want to be with. It's something we all do, it's called weeding out those who aren't right for us.

Yes, some people are professional liars, they are harder to predict, they come from both genders, but they are also not nearly as common. If you find yourself with a mismatch time after time but still try to make it a match, that's you setting yourself up for failure. You can't blame another person for not wanting to be with you just because you spent some time together. Don't jump into 'relationships' until you have taken the time to find the right person to be with.
 SunshineAngel99
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 15
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Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 9:36:34 AM
Most men are not honest because they tell women what they want to hear. If I tell a woman that I can't open doors for her all the time...well I will be single for a long, long time lol. :P

In all seriousness, honesty is still important, but don't buy into the idea that it isn't valued anymore. If you let that happen you only have yourself to blame.

 Brandy_000
Joined: 10/8/2012
Msg: 16
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 9:46:10 AM
Not too many women want to meet a guy who says "hey lets meet for some fun under the sheets" so they lie to get what they want. I have the same problem with men on here and it disgusts me to no end.

I don't really think its and era thing, I think its how they are raised and its not you but....these guys definitely know which ones to prey on. Just learn to spot them right away too.
 LukeMM23
Joined: 4/2/2006
Msg: 19
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 11:51:47 AM
It blows my mind, the kind of crap people (men) are doing on this site. I hear a lot of stories just like yours, amiyours2. It's crazy that those**** can get dates or even get longer relationships than me. I'm always honest and true. I wonder if that's one of my biggest downsides.

Maybe I'm honest and true and I simply ideas that women can't understand - let alone, accept.
 hike-n-bike
Joined: 4/11/2009
Msg: 20
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 12:11:53 PM
You might have better luck finding honesty in the dictionary. Good luck!
 thx4playin
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 23
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 2:03:48 PM

Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?

With technology, in the future, it's potentially a thing of the past.
With technology you can control your environment to the point where it ultimately doesn't matter if someone lies or not.
i.e. "The check is in the mail!!" vs. "I posted my payment online yesterday, I have a confirmation number, a charge to my checking account/debit card from your company, with date and time stamp."


Why do men find it so hard to be honest?

People find it difficult to be honest because there aren't all that sever consequences to doing it, and it allows someone to avoid judgment and conflict at the time of the lie.


why say your looking for a long term relationship etc etc, then it turns out that your just after a bit of extra fun on the side

That is a type of relationship.
Because they may want what you would consider the ideal relationship, just not with you.
Because they've learned people like you respond positively to the idea of you being paid with the potential for your ideal relationship and you get so happy you give them what they want so you basically reinforce it, even though you don't realize you are doing it.


Do I belong in an altogether different era?

If you do, you're screwed. There's no way to get there.
At best all you can do is sit around and mentally masturbate, alone, about how much better you are than other people because of your values and the way you think things should be done.


I believe in being honest

Everyone believes they are honest.
You ever tell a homeless guy outside of 7-11 that you didn't have any change?
You wear makeup?
You tell a Jehovah's witness at your front door something to get them to go away?
You never shortcutted an explanation to somebody just to hurry the conversation along?


hate cheats and liars

Everyone does, everyone does it, but no one pays much attention to when they do it.


does that make me a target to effectively have my feelings and person used and abused?

Maybe.
You may very well be lying to yourself that you really do want a relationship and thereby start searching out these types of people to make sure you never get into a relationship. You get to idealize the perfect relationship, make yourself feel special about knowing what the "right" answer is, yet never have to put it into practice because that would require change, commitment, responsibility, conflict and risk. All those things that make life scary.
The forums are full of people that do the exact same thing with a different focus.
 angel778
Joined: 9/26/2012
Msg: 25
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 2:55:08 PM
It's actually a chance for them to show off their creativity. My last one told me he had retired and moved home to Missouri. He actually is still employed at the same job and living in the same location. A mutual friend saw him at the local mexican restaurant. The word "Next.", would have been so much cleaner, just saying.
 Alonenomore4sure
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 26
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 3:00:44 PM
Men find it hard to be honest because what women want is a lie so unbelievable hopeful that it could be possible. Women don't want honesty because they still believe in knights in shining armour and Mr. Right which are of fairy tales and romance novels. Honesty to women is boring.
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 27
Honesty is it a thing of the past with no place in the future?
Posted: 10/27/2012 6:03:34 PM
It has been my experience that honesty is viewed as weakness. And then you get labelled with the new "nice guy" stigma. Many claim honesty is what they want, but (gasp) they're lying. Unfortunately for me, honest is deeply embedded into my psyche.
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