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Show ALL Forums  > Health Wellness  > ObamaCare 29 hour work week?      Home login  
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 tallshyman
Joined: 1/1/2008
Msg: 1
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
Since only full-time employees working 30 hours or more must be covered under the new law, he said he expects franchise owners will be forced to cut employees' hours because they can't afford the costs of health insurance plans.

it is cheaper to to cut hours then pay 1.500 a mouth for heath care so many people will have a 29 hour work week to save money
ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/12/2012 1:25:11 AM
Take 2 aspirin..and call your doc?
Ask to have this moved to the correct forum Mr Tall.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 3
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/12/2012 11:49:48 AM
I love it when companies fire employees because of ACA. Really sorrry for them, but ...

it should mean that a hard-core public insurance option open to every citizen is approaching. That would really screw the for-profit insurance companies into the luxury, 5-star clientele sector only.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 4
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/12/2012 12:14:58 PM

it should mean that a hard-core public insurance option open to every citizen is approaching. That would really screw the for-profit insurance companies into the luxury, 5-star clientele sector only.


Healthcare like Canada and the UK. Sounds good.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 5
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/12/2012 1:27:08 PM
see on pbs.org the documentary "Sick Around The World", how adult countries not owned and operated by for-profit corporations have provided health care for all without bankrupting the country or the citizens.
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 6
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/13/2012 7:25:33 AM
Twighlights Love, And Satx,

You are both VERY RIGHT, however that's NOT what ObamaCare is about. It's about HEALTH INSURANCE and NOT about actual health care itself. BIG difference.

I don't know how many of you actually read the bill, but it also provides for the govenment to tap into your bank account. But, if you didnt read that -- you'll definately see ow that works out later.

It also does put age limits on some things. We all start to "age out" of the system at age 57. By the time we're 70 there'll be NO more surgery -- pretty much just medication. And, as a dear friend of mine has found out -- NO more chemo.

So, that's a death sentence for her. But, NO this has nothing to do with any "death panels" -- that was a completely different matter.

To the OP --
We were ALL warned about this before it was voted on, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. We were also told that many companies would not be hiring over 49 empolyees to avoid having to spring for ObamaCare. We were also warned about many companies laying off workers in droves due to hundreds of other new regualtions recently mandated by our president. As per yesterday's news, about 70 major companies will be cutting hours for employees. Many more will be laying off employees entirely.

To those of you who didn't keep up with the news re: exactly what the bill was about, you may be in for some more surprises.

Nancy Pelosi said "we have to pass the bill to know what's in it." But I didn't agree -- I read the bill and did the math for myself.


 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 7
ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/13/2012 11:57:09 PM
Cutting hours will depend upon what the labor laws allow in each state and of course it won't happen in a unionized setting (short of downsizing) . I predict that more and more workers will be opting to form labor unions in order to offset the counter moves that employers might be planning on.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 8
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/15/2012 12:06:55 PM
ALEC/VRWC will relentlessly continue working to make every state a right to work state.

why?

All right-to-work states have lower avg hourly wages than other states, meaning more money for the mgmt and investors.

aka, the War On Employees, started and sanctioned with St Ronnie busting the ATC union in the early '80s.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 9
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/15/2012 12:40:55 PM
ALEC Exposed: The Koch Connection
ALEC and the Kochs often pursue parallel tracks. Just as ALEC “educates” legislators, Koch funding has helped “tutor” hundreds of judges with all-expenses-paid junkets at fancy resorts, where they learn about the “free market” impact of their rulings. But ALEC also operates like an arm of the Koch agenda, circulating bills that make their vision of the world concrete. For a mere $25,000 a year, Koch Industries sits as an “equal” board member with state legislators, influencing bills that serve as a wish list for its financial or ideological interests.

It’s a pittance for the Kochs but far out of the reach of working Americans. Ordinary citizens rely on our elected representatives’ efforts to restore what’s left of the American Dream. But through ALEC, billionaire industrialists are purchasing a version that seems like a real nightmare for most Americans.

http://www.thenation.com/article/161973/alec-exposed-koch-connection#

While the above article is not about ALEC trying to create right to work states in all states it does expose who is behind such movements.

So did you read about John McAfee in the Caribbean?
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 10
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/15/2012 1:26:27 PM
Aon Hewitt, a benefits consulting giant, expects 200,000 people to enroll this fall in coverage offered through its online exchange. Darden, which operates the Red Lobster and Olive Garden chains, and Sears are offering their defined contribution plans through Aon's exchange site.

http://home.suddenlink.net/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CDA2IJIA00%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1011&page=2

Red Lobster, Olive Garden cutting workers hours due to 'Obamacare'

Red Lobster, Olive Garden and Longhorn Steaks only a few of the restaurants cutting workers hours to shift them from full-time to part-time, thus avoiding having to provide health care beginning in 2014 as mandatted by the Affordable Care Act .

Darden Restaurants Inc., the parent company of Atlanta area eateries Red Lobster, Olive Garden, Longhorn Steakhouse and Bahama Breeze, is cutting hours of full-time workers to shift them to part-time in an effort to reduce costs associated with health care reform.

The Orlando-based company operates chains in other states that include Seasons 52, Eddie V’s and Capital Grille.

The Orlando Sentinel reported on Tuesday that Darden has stopped offering full-time schedules to many hourly workers, and is limiting workers to 28 hours a week in four unidentified markets “to help us address the cost implications health care reform will have on our business.” The test program will determine whether it is a viable option in dealing with additional health care costs.
http://www.examiner.com/article/red-lobster-olive-garden-cutting-workers-hours-due-to-obamacare

So doesn't this seem odd to anyone? Are these restaurants doing that poorly or is there different ideas going just to merely cut costs more?
 VGLGuySksFun
Joined: 10/12/2011
Msg: 11
ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/16/2012 8:23:31 AM
Let me see if i have this right... the argument is that companies are going to reduce an employee's hours to under 30 in order to avoid having to pay for employee health care... whether as a contribution to a health insurance plan or penalty for not offering health care insurance.

Therefore, let's say i have a business and i need workers for 120 hours during a particular week. I will now need four employees to work 30 hours each rather than three workers to work 40 hours each. So i need to increase my head count by 33% in order to save $ 4500 per year ($ 1500 x 3 that i would have to pay if they worked 40 hours without health insurance).

That means i need to advertise more to find the additional employee. I need to interview people, select an additional one and then train an additional one. I then have the costs of managing an additional person (training, team creation, etc.) as well as doing all of the accounting for the additional person. Then, since they're only working 30 hours per week, if they get a better offer, they will leave. So my employee turnover will be higher, meaning i will have to advertise , interview, select, train, manage and account for even more people - including the one that left and the new one that replaced the one that left. And lastly, i have to probably spend even more time managing and training more part time employees if i want to continue to deliver the same level of customer service that i would have delivered with fewer full time employees.

Hmmm... end of the day... I think it's pretty safe to say any business that thinks increasing head count by 33% with all part time employees is less costly than the health insurance alternative is simply going to learn the hard way.
When the product quality and the customer service decline and they start losing customers, the small incremental cost for health insurance is going to look very cheap... and that's business.

For those who don't wish to believe the above... please also consider that Costco pays its employees 20% MORE than similar competitors to avoid the turnover and other costs as well as improve their product and service... and the result is... they are kicking their competitors' butts.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 12
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/16/2012 9:28:36 AM

Let me see if i have this right... the argument is that companies are going to reduce an employee's hours to under 30 in order to avoid having to pay for employee health care... whether as a contribution to a health insurance plan or penalty for not offering health care insurance.

Therefore, let's say i have a business and i need workers for 120 hours during a particular week. I will now need four employees to work 30 hours each rather than three workers to work 40 hours each. So i need to increase my head count by 33% in order to save $ 4500 per year ($ 1500 x 3 that i would have to pay if they worked 40 hours without health insurance).


You actually would have to hire one more person as the employee is considered full time if they get 30 hours of work unless you are going to push them harder to make up for the lack of 4 hours.

Unfortunately I'm seeing or hearing about some really sad management practices since my adult children started working. There are businesses out there who make it a practice to have high turnover rates or so it seems. They change employees as fast as they change their undergarments and do not seem to see the error of their ways. The world of business has certainly changed since I was in management.

Wouldn't it be nice if more businesses looked to corporations such as COSTCO?

I see more headaches to come until management styles change.
 Fishing4Marlin
Joined: 10/4/2012
Msg: 13
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/28/2012 3:08:39 PM

Therefore, let's say i have a business and i need workers for 120 hours during a particular week. I will now need four employees to work 30 hours each rather than three workers to work 40 hours each. So i need to increase my head count by 33% in order to save $ 4500 per year ($ 1500 x 3 that i would have to pay if they worked 40 hours without health insurance).


Not sure where you got the $1,500?? To my knowledge the penalty is $2K the cost of insurance per employee to meet obamacares standards would be substantially more. So lets just consider the cost of the more affordable penalty...
I don't think this will effect companies with 3-4 employees I "think" it is only companies with 51 or more... so...

Lets say you have... 90 employees.. as is the case with many privately owned or franchised resteraunt chains and fast food places... So 90X2000=$180K annual penalty you'd have to pay to keep doing business as usual. Let say those 90 employees are over 3 resteraunts... the resteraunts annual profit is $150K each... So you can cut hours down to avoid the penalty or give up more than 1/3 of your annual profit to the Government just to continue doing business as usual... so let me ask you.. as a business owner... what would you do?
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 14
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/29/2012 1:17:44 PM
Looks like the lay-offs and cut backs of hours has already started.

Also seems that plenty of out of work folks are breaking down the doors of those businesses to get the 30 jobs. Better class of employee too, as many professionals are desperate enough to take the unskilled laborers' jobs.

Hostess just closed it's business entirely because of employee greed.

I also remember the HUGE revival of the "cottage industry" during the Carter years because of over-regulation of businesses. A lot of people started home businesses and still run them today. With the internet it's easier than ever. In fact, your whole work force could easilty be off-shore.

I think we'll see how this pans out soon enough.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 15
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/29/2012 1:36:37 PM
Hostess just closed it's business entirely because of employee greed.


Actually special companies bought Hostess just to milk it dry and turn a profit which they indeed did. It is so easy to blame the employees even as Hostess is asking to give their CEO's 16.5 million in compensation before they proceed with bankruptcy.

Insurance companies are hiring. People need to be prepared for hard grueling crash courses in how to process claims and then be prepared to be micro managed out the azz once they get on those floors.

Oh, one more thing, there is a really high turnover rate. I guess it is hard for people to soak up that much information in such short periods of time. Be quick, be perfect and you will do just fine.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 16
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/29/2012 2:33:19 PM
"Hostess just closed it's business entirely because of employee greed."

so you been watching CNBC or Fox Repug Propaganda network?

Hostess was flipped by p/e vultures several times, each time sucking wealth out of it, until it died, even after the union gave up $100M+/year in salary+ benefits.
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 17
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/29/2012 2:59:34 PM

Actually special companies bought Hostess just to milk it dry and turn a profit which they indeed did. It is so easy to blame the employees even as Hostess is asking to give their CEO's 16.5 million in compensation before they proceed with bankruptcy.



Hostess was flipped by p/e vultures several times, each time sucking wealth out of it, until it died, even after the union gave up $100M+/year in salary+ benefits


Actually, Twighlight adn Satx - you MIGHT both be right. The timing of the closing -- 1 day after Hostess' threat to close and the Union's refusal to budge ---- MIGHT have been purely coincidental.

And, Twightlight -- I totally agree with you re: your comments on new rules for insurance companies.
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 18
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 11/29/2012 3:58:04 PM

Let me see if i have this right... the argument is that companies are going to reduce an employee's hours to under 30 in order to avoid having to pay for employee health care... whether as a contribution to a health insurance plan or penalty for not offering health care insurance.


Therefore, let's say i have a business and i need workers for 120 hours during a particular week. I will now need four employees to work 30 hours each rather than three workers to work 40 hours each. So i need to increase my head count by 33% in order to save $ 4500 per year ($ 1500 x 3 that i would have to pay if they worked 40 hours without health insurance).

That means i need to advertise more to find the additional employee. I need to interview people, select an additional one and then train an additional one. I then have the costs of managing an additional person (training, team creation, etc.) as well as doing all of the accounting for the additional person. Then, since they're only working 30 hours per week, if they get a better offer, they will leave. So my employee turnover will be higher, meaning i will have to advertise , interview, select, train, manage and account for even more people - including the one that left and the new one that replaced the one that left. And lastly, i have to probably spend even more time managing and training more part time employees if i want to continue to deliver the same level of customer service that i would have delivered with fewer full time employees.


NOPE! It COULD mean that you are going to wring 40 hours of work in 29 for each of the employees you already have. If they don't produce you could get more workers who are desperate for ANY job they can get -- and there are plenty out there. I COULD also mean that you are going to start outsourcing. Or it COULD mean that you are going to move your plant (and maybe yourself) off shore. And it just MIGHT mean that those wore over-worked 29 hour a week employees are going to have to supplement their paychecks with part time jobs. But its MOST LIKELY going to mean that the employees are going to end up with NO health insurance from their employers.

Obama has already stated that he wants to go to a "single payer" system -- so a single payer system we shall get. NOT health care, mind you. Just health INSURANCE. And if we don't buy it --- guess who will be paying the "nominal" fines? Hint: NOT the employers.

"Hmmmm".



Lets say you have... 90 employees.. as is the case with many privately owned or franchised resteraunt chains and fast food places... So 90X2000=$180K annual penalty you'd have to pay to keep doing business as usual. Let say those 90 employees are over 3 resteraunts... the resteraunts annual profit is $150K each... So you can cut hours down to avoid the penalty or give up more than 1/3 of your annual profit to the Government just to continue doing business as usual... so let me ask you.. as a business owner... what would you do?


First of al, most restaurants hire illegals who are paid under the table. So the illegals would keep their job, and possibly get more hours withot being paid overtime.

Secondly, your scenario would only be true if you were MARRIED. The AMT kicks in for a SINGLE person with no kids early on. A single person netting all that profit would have so much of that $150,000 eaten up in AMT that he wouldn't even miss it. He would be then able to take advantage of tax breaks that he hadn't been getting, and MIGHT come out ahead.

 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 19
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 12/3/2012 7:40:16 AM
"So much for union representation."

Hostess was a mutliply-flipped carcass for private equity wealth suckers.

p/e doesn't GAF about a takeover target's business success, only how much wealth can be sucked out of it.

p/e's ONLY priority is enriching p/e's investors.
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 20
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 12/5/2012 5:50:53 PM
That's very true, Big.

NOBODY is going to sacrifice their own (and famiy's) lifestyle out of a sense of government forced "Altrusim". That's why costs are always passed on to the consumer.

Those "rich guys" are REALLY going to be pissed at those who wanted BO Care. Some of 'em mad enough to cut back charitable giving, too.

Wealth may "trickle down". But poverty will tend to rain on folks heads like a big ol' flash flood.



..... they can still go the the emergency room, and have the taxpayer pay for it?


Ya, used to be just a few folks doing that. Now it's going to be a LOT of them in there. But they'll still be stuck with those fines for no insurance. NOT the employers.
 milomason
Joined: 4/3/2011
Msg: 21
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 12/13/2012 11:18:23 AM
This is AMERICA its more important that insurance companys make billions then for Americans to have basic healthcare,like everywhere else in the civilized world!
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 22
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 12/20/2012 8:26:53 AM
Olive Garden, Red Lobster See Sharp Drop In Profits After Anti-Obamacare Campaign Backfires

Ever since Darden Restaurants — the owner of the Olive Garden and Red Lobster chains — first announced its anti-Obamacare campaign, the company has had a tough couple of months. Darden admitted as much when it revised its predictions for latest quarterly earnings down in December, attributing the drop to “recent negative media coverage on Darden [...] and how we might accommodate healthcare reform.”

The negative press led the company to reverse course on its threat to shift employees to part-time status to avoid covering them under Obamacare. The latest report on Darden’s earnings prove that was a good move, since the restaurants did take a turn for the worse as a result of their bad publicity. Its net income fell 37 percent:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/12/20/1365461/olive-garden-red-lobster-see-sharp-drop-in-profits-after-anti-obamacare-campaign-backfires/

Looks a lot of Americans like Obamacare, and HATE companies that punish their employees for political vendettas.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 23
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 12/20/2012 11:10:07 AM
I'm all for single payer health insurance. I'm not for ripping the poor off more though. I just got a phone call from a very distraught son who said "you told me that Obamacare would not effect me negatively".......it has.

My son is making a little more than minimum wage. He was given very crappy healthcare a while back that the employer was paying for completely............no more.........now he has very crappy healthcare that he is going to be charged $36.00 per week for. His insurance is SO BAD that you might as well just call it all theft.

It will certainly enrich the health insurance providers though!

Perhaps he should just buy some stock in the company instead of using their insurance.

How embarrassing!
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 25
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ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 3/6/2013 7:51:52 AM
The Affordable Health Care Act (ObamaCare) never addressed the real problem with our healthcare system and has no real cost containment implementation. This is why I'm not pleased with the action.



http://www.upworthy.com/why-the-u-s-healthcare-system-makes-even-less-sense-than-you-thought

Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us
By Steven BrillFeb. 20, 2013

Corrections Appended: February 26, 2013

1. Routine Care, Unforgettable Bills
When Sean Recchi, a 42-year-old from Lancaster, Ohio, was told last March that he had non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, his wife Stephanie knew she had to get him to MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. Stephanie’s father had been treated there 10 years earlier, and she and her family credited the doctors and nurses at MD Anderson with extending his life by at least eight years.

Because Stephanie and her husband had recently started their own small technology business, they were unable to buy comprehensive health insurance. For $469 a month, or about 20% of their income, they had been able to get only a policy that covered just $2,000 per day of any hospital costs. “We don’t take that kind of discount insurance,” said the woman at MD Anderson when Stephanie called to make an appointment for Sean.

Stephanie was then told by a billing clerk that the estimated cost of Sean’s visit — just to be examined for six days so a treatment plan could be devised — would be $48,900, due in advance. Stephanie got her mother to write her a check. “You do anything you can in a situation like that,” she says. The Recchis flew to Houston, leaving Stephanie’s mother to care for their two teenage children.

About a week later, Stephanie had to ask her mother for $35,000 more so Sean could begin the treatment the doctors had decided was urgent. His condition had worsened rapidly since he had arrived in Houston. He was “sweating and shaking with chills and pains,” Stephanie recalls. “He had a large mass in his chest that was … growing. He was panicked.”

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/#ixzz2Mm8IUuPX

Am I the only one who has wondered about this?
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 26
ObamaCare 29 hour work week?
Posted: 3/6/2013 4:29:51 PM
Sadly.....it is very true.
I know peeps who work in restaurants and other low paying jobs
that have had their hours reduced to less than 32 just for that reason.

We should just go 100% socialist and have medicare for all.
There.
I said it.
Flame away Libertarians.
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