Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Art/Music  > Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 1
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profoundPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I just hate it when I see/read/hear folks misattributing "genius", "deep", "profound" and "thematic" to John Lennon's hippie garbage. He only wrote banal love songs, war protests that accomplished nothing, drug-induced nonsense, supposed Communism-destroying but ultimately halfassed hippie sht and...hm, I guess that entirely summarizes his lyrical catalog.

Which "writers" do you think are mistakenly referred to as good songwriters?
 Green_Jello44
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 2
view profile
History
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 1:27:28 PM
bob dylan
neil peart
dani filth

You spend a lot of time talking about what you hate....what the hll do you like? I'm guessing you're young, and I remember being cynical like you...but what you don't get is you're taking everything out of context. For example, you like to slag the beatles, and perhaps they couldn't even get signed today, but in their time they were groundbreaking, prolific, and I'm not sure you can't mention anyone who beats the catalog they produced in 7 short years....stop being a hater, believe it or not I know you'll grow out of it.
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 3
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 1:52:11 PM
Dylan is twice the lyricist Lennon is.

And of course; one can't very well hate what one doesn't understand completely. And I completely get the modern music scene, as much as I truly get the Beatles. They were just the bigger whore between themselves and the Monkees (who have a total number of tracks I like from them as opposed to from the Beatles: 1!).

If you want examples of what I do like, Genesis (particularly Phil Collins' Genesis), Morrissey solo and with The Smiths, Bruce Springsteen...those 3 alone represent far better songwriters than naive, egotist little pretentious Lennon. I could write more profound lyrics than Lennon on a bus in 2 hours and drunk having had no sleep in a few days.

And yes, by the way, I am 22. I can readily understand their historical significance (and their cash cow ways) but on merit, they fall behind even Michael Jackson or Elton John. Prince alone is more talented than all the members of the Beatles.
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 4
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 1:58:22 PM
You spend a lot of time talking about what you hate...

If you may recall, that is what teenagers seem to spend most of their time doing...


And of course; one can't very well hate what one doesn't understand completely.

"Nothing to kill or die for,
And no religion too,
Imagine all the people living life in peace.." John Lennon

That about sizes up what the OP post seemingly may not yet fully comprehend... Lack of experience RL maybe.
Especially in this coming season of what was to be "peace" when much more fighting is breaking out in the Middle East..
I'm guessing about 100-200 people are going to die this weekend near Gaza and some dozen in Israel, adding to the near 30,000 dead in Syria over the last year.

"It's a Wonderful Life" if all one has to do is complain about not understanding song lyrics.
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 5
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 2:00:20 PM
I'm not a teen, though. 22.

I haven't the foggiest what you're implying with the lyric, though.
 gcdeb
Joined: 4/25/2011
Msg: 6
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 2:00:55 PM
In the town where I was born
Lived a man who sailed to sea
And he told us of his life
In the land of submarines

So we sailed on to the sun
Till we found a sea of green
And we lived beneath the waves
In our yellow submarine

We all live in a yellow submarine
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine
We all live in a yellow submarine
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine

And our friends are all aboard
Many more of them live next door
And the band begins to play

We all live in a yellow submarine
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine
We all live in a yellow submarine
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine

{Full speed ahead Mr. Boatswain, full speed ahead
Full speed ahead it is, Sgt.
Cut the cable, drop the cable
Aye, aye, Sir, aye, aye
Captain, captain}

As we live a life of ease
Every one of us has all we need
(One of us, has all we need)
Sky of blue and sea of green
(Sky of blue, sea of green)
In our yellow submarine
(In our yellow, submarine, aha)

We all live in a yellow submarine
A yellow submarine, yellow submarine
We all live in a yellow submarine
A yellow submarine, yellow submarine

We all live in a yellow submarine
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine
We all live in a yellow submarine
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine

***********************
You can't see the depth in those lyrics?

Many many many great artists have crap lyrics. Often it's about the delivery and the music. Sometimes people simply lack the skills to correctly interpret lyrics. "Drove my chevy to the levy but the levee was dry" is NOT about driving a car to a storm wall for example.

I'm sad. I completely missed that period in my life when I was supposed to think I knew everything about everything. Or is that just a boy thing?

I'm teasing OP. It's great to see a young person who can analyse and interpret the written word and has the skills to back up their arguments.

Less use of the word 'hate' might add more weight to your arguments though. It makes you sound more emotive and biased instead of making an intellectual comment.
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 7
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 2:15:01 PM
I have enough experience to know not to expect peace in the Middle East.

I admit, I am too emotive; I probably do dilute my own arguments with invective. Too much passion or not enough restraint. But damned if I am going to dress up my sentiments for the Beatles. I really do hate them.
 Rheostatic
Joined: 5/27/2011
Msg: 8
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 3:02:13 PM
Do you ever actually have anything GOOD to say about music? Or is it that all you do is complain about it?
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 9
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 3:03:40 PM
There's SOME good news; Sirius satellite radio helped me discover GOOD music (at the start of high school, I nearly became another contemporary pop dolt and then I discovered actual music via Sirius).

I guess that was it but technically, yes, I do have GOOD things to say about music.


Phil Collins and good lyrics?? That's a real oxymoron. That man has nothing but fresh air and pound signs in his head!


Phil Collins' is undeservedly criticized: The man wrote brilliant pop that combined so many instruments and layers so fluidly. His works are so rich in production but not shallow in content, either; just listen to Invisible Touch or No Jacket Required, two of the seminal 80s albums. The guy wrote commercially accessible, smooth, daring, sometimes outdated art rock and kicked Peter Gabriel's ass.

Collins was a writing virtuoso.
 Trevork52
Joined: 1/2/2007
Msg: 10
view profile
History
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 3:07:10 PM
Phil Collins and good lyrics?? That's a real oxymoron. That man has nothing but fresh air and pound signs in his head!

(substitute dollar signs if you are from over there!)
 Green_Jello44
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 11
view profile
History
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 3:37:29 PM
Wow, all I can say is I'm disapointed, after all your blathering about creativity, you come up with Phil collins, Morissey and Springsteen? Thats all you got? At the end of the day nobody is right or wrong about music, we like what we like, so your opinion is what it is.....and its cool if you hate the beatles, but there is no way you can understand the magnitude of something that happened 47 years ago.
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 12
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 3:40:54 PM
Of course, there are the standard "scientifically and objectively better than the Beatles" but I wanted to introduce my own original ideas:

Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Elton John, hell even the Culture Club, and Madonna are more ambitious than the Beatles.

Yeah, The Beatles were historically significant; but again, do they deserve such recognition and fame? The 'Stones were better than them in every aspect. T. Rex was too; I'd even pop in a Gary Glitter album before I ever play a Beatles album in its entirety (I've never made it more than 2 minutes into a Beatles album). Spinal Tap is more creative and original than the Beatles.
 Green_Jello44
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 4:23:28 PM
Basically your premise is erroneous, in that you think profound lyrics can be found within the rock and pop realm , you give musicians too much credit.....bang a gong? Born in the usa? right.
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 14
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 4:29:57 PM
Well, I can't admit I know what Bang a Gong is even about but it isn't pretentious like I Am the Walrus so by virtue of being straightforward and excellent in instrument and spirit, it is superior.

You haven't the foggiest what Springsteen was even writing with that track, in fact, that entire misunderstood album, have you? Hint: the titular track is NOT a nationalistic track at all. No offense, but Boss in tune with his working man, Americana rock theme was actually telling a depressing story about the mistreatment of the 'Nam vets. Where does Lennon capture anything so moving? I can't honestly see how a yellow submarine has anything to do with the human condition.

The Beach Boys now that I really think about it deserve the title of greatest band of all-time. Horrifically underrated.

Where else might profound lyrics be found? Rap? Hm, I myself don't have relation to growing up in 'hoods, dealing crack and generally being a worthless human being?

I'd agree if you mentioned, say, blues or something.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 15
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/16/2012 11:20:07 PM
How ironic you would tote on Phil Collins while hate on the Beatles.
According to Wiki;
Phil was an extra in the Beatles' A Hard Day's Night
AND .....
In 1970, the 19-year old Collins played percussion on the George Harrison song "The Art of Dying". Harrison credited him in the liner notes to the remastered CD version of the album released in 2000.

A crazy guess but I'd gather they might have oh so slightly influenced Phil. hm?
 Red_5
Joined: 1/23/2010
Msg: 16
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 3:34:32 AM
After Cobain suicided music was never quite the same.

Except my Dido whose lyrics and voice are to die for.

I'm still hoping Debbie Gibsn will get revitalized.
 Aardente
Joined: 11/2/2012
Msg: 17
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 3:42:38 AM
What do you think lyrics should represent?

Currently listening to country music - the words seem to rhyme, are simple and talk about day to day life - they have a charm of their oen, they seem sort of quaint.

This seems such a subjective thing.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 18
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 12:15:01 PM

I'm still hoping Debbie Gibsn will get revitalized.



Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
 THEKidWicked
Joined: 8/9/2010
Msg: 19
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 3:49:10 PM
neil young
kurt cobain
jim morrison
bono

drug addicts aren't really all that profound.

bono's just a pompous ass.

k.w.
damage done
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 20
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 3:52:17 PM
Neil Young is a fantastic writer. He's 5x better than Lennon (the single lyricist I most hate; I'd prefer hearing white boy rap over Lennon. That has more substance than that hypocrite and know-nothing).

I highly agree with Morrisson, although I think The End is the one instance where I would not.

Cobain really sucks. But really, everything about Nirvana sucked which leads me to:

Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters, the plague of modern music. That guy just never shuts the hell up and all he does is yell.

Bono and Morrison > Lennon


<div class='quote'> What do you think lyrics should represent?

Currently listening to country music - the words seem to rhyme, are simple and talk about day to day life - they have a charm of their oen, they seem sort of quaint.

It's hard nay impossible to set forth a standard universal for genres; I guess the most basic thing would be differentiation from their peers within the same genre, doing their best not to resort to nursery rhymes or forced rhymes, evocative images that aren't overblown, insightful and personally, I like alliteration but I wouldn't consider that a basic MUST.

Another thing that PISSES me off and is a clear sign of a bad writer; every line starts with "I." That's not lazy; just symptomatic of BAD writers.


<div class='quote'> How ironic you would tote on Phil Collins while hate on the Beatles.
According to Wiki;
Phil was an extra in the Beatles' A Hard Day's Night
AND .....
In 1970, the 19-year old Collins played percussion on the George Harrison song "The Art of Dying". Harrison credited him in the liner notes to the remastered CD version of the album released in 2000.

A crazy guess but I'd gather they might have oh so slightly influenced Phil. hm?

Good grief; how could he?! Phil is 3x the man Lennon was and 9x the lyricist. But hopefully, his brief stints with hacks directly influenced his superior body of work.
 Green_Jello44
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 21
view profile
History
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 4:47:40 PM
There's a girl
thats been on
my mind all the
time -
sussudio
oho.
Now she don't even
know my name

But I think she
likes me just the
same - sussudio
oho.
Ah
if she called me
I'd be there
I'd come running anywhere.
She's all I need
all my life

I feel so good if
Ijust say the word
- sussudio

Just say the word - oh
sussudio.

Now I know that
I'm too young

my love has just
begun - sussudio
oho.
Give me a chance
give me a sign

I'll show her anytime
- su-sussudio
oho.
Ah
I've got to have her
have her now

I've got to get
closer but I don't
know how.
She makes me
nervous and makes
me scared

But I feel so good
if I just say the
word - sussudio

Just say the word - oh
su-sussudio
oho.

Ah she's all I need
all of my life

I fee'l so good if
I just say the
word - sussudio

I say the word - oh
su-sussudio

I say the word - oh
sussudio

I'll say the word - oh
su-sussudio
oho.
Just say the word
just
just say the word

Just say the word
- su-sussudio
sussudio
sussudio

Sutsudio
sussudio
sussudio.
I say the word - sussudio
I say the word -
oh
just say the word.



I rest my case
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 22
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 4:58:46 PM
Sure, but listen to his virtuoso orchestration, a distinct trait of his; it's layered, with an ensemble of instruments that come together and sure, the lyrics are somewhat stupid (you picked his one poor single) and is a bit of a Prince "1999" knockoff.

STILL beats "Imagine a world with no possessions: meanwhile, I'm hoarding all this wealth, fur coats and going against my supposed stances" or "Give peace a chance: If I was given any position of power, my stupid flower power naivete would run the world into the ground"...

What about "I am the walrus": yeeah, that's just SO profound. I mean, have you ever heard or read a more insightful lyric regarding the human condition? Or "Lucy in the sky with diamonds", I mean, if that isn't poignant social commentary, I don't know what is....Oh wait..

The only remotely respectable thing the Beatles did wasn't even theirs: "Shout" or even "With a Little Help My Friends" which was drastically improved upon by Joe Cocker.
 Green_Jello44
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 5:27:00 PM
Lets talk about lucy in the sky.........you said something about artists differentiating themselves within their genre....nobody did that more than the Beatles. I don't know what year it was, maybe 66, but many acts were copying the beatles songwriting, everything was simple pop radio hits. Then the boys started dropping acid and writing concept albums.....nobody had done that before, it was radically different from the pop landscape at the time. They also introduced sitar into pop music and George Martin added his true orchestral genius. Of course now it sounds ridiculous because its out of context to that period.
I'm not a core beatle fan, I just grew up with it. Another example is "yesterday" no artist in that day could write a song that mature lyrically, and its not simple on guitar either...Lennon and McCartney were miles beyond songwriters of the day, even more amazing because they started out as a cover band.

and btw phil collins ripped off scriti politi for su sudio.
 CopernicusOfLove
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 24
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 5:33:30 PM
OK, I'll agree with the concept albums, the sitar and whatnot.

But thematically, they were just too simplistic, even for the 60s. Were they any less saccharine than The Archies or the Monkees? At that time, you had of course simple pop but they were epic: Ever listen to The Ronettes? Now THERE was an artist for the time. I've never heard such a brilliant use of Wall of Sound, and the vocals are just killer; they could bring a man to tears.

The Beach Boys were producing the most ingenious pop music at the time, also. "Pet Sounds" is the real greatest album ever. The Doors released better, more deep (still pretentious but at least some of it was earnest) stuff at the time, too.

I've never heard "Yesterday." In fact, I've never heard a full Beatles album.
 Green_Jello44
Joined: 6/19/2011
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound
Posted: 11/17/2012 5:47:02 PM
more history for you......the monkees were a direct response in america to cash in on the beatle phenomenon if you hadn't noticed. They had professional staff songwriters Boyce and Hart writing their stuff, fake band.
I will cut you some slack here though, because after mcCartney heard pet sounds, he set out to do sgt peppers, then the stones copied it with her magesties request i think. Pet sounds was brilliant but the record company refused to release it for years......


if you've never listened to a full beatles album, check out revolver....with headphones!
Tomorrow never knows was the first last and best psychadelic tune ever.....
Show ALL Forums  > Art/Music  > Songwriters whose lyrics are erroneously thought to be profound