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 bethanna44
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 1
Should I feel guilty here...Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I've been seeing a guy for the last year. I fell pretty fast for him, but he's non-committal. In the end, although he's pretty much taken nearly everyday of my time...we even went house hunting (his idea...not mine) with him backing out for whatever reason. I'm getting the vibes that this is one very damaged man, from his past marriage and at least one other relationship. He has a lot of resentment from his past...a LOT

I'm not sure if that is all there is to it or if he is trying to also punish me for what others have done to his self esteem. He's a big ego man...but has always treated me very well...but never quite let me "in" fully to his life.

I've been careful not to push or 'nag' or have "the talk" in a pressure filled way. I have dropped my own viewpoints into the conversations without pushing for answers etc...and getting none by the way.

If he ask me to marry him today...I would...without qualms. HOWEVER...

I'm seeing a pattern here and am thinking he is getting everything HE wants ...company for all the activities he wants to do etc...I'm not talking about sex...HE isn't even asking...and I wouldn't because of my Christian views. We both seem to be on the same page where morals are concerned. I do wonder though why he isn't at least more affectionate. Quick kisses and hand holding...no real passion.

I think more and more he wants an activity partner...but then he went looking for houses with me...applied for the mortgage...with me at his side...He knew if we moved in together without marriage it would be separate bedrooms.

But then he backed out after the closing date was scheduled!

I'm tired of all this...Sooo I've begun to branch out and look into other people to date. Why do I feel so quilty?

He's made the comment several times that he would send a gift to my wedding if I would ever meet someone else.
But I've also seen tears in his eyes that he tried hard to hide when we had a serious near breakup.

I've never tried to throw up other men to him...he knows I am in love with him... That I would marry him if he asks...but he remains so uncommitted I just wonder why I'm wasting my time. Thus the though that maybe I SHOULD take some of my other offers.

I'm going back and forth here.

Any thoughts? Thanks!
 notdating-forumsonly
Joined: 4/6/2012
Msg: 2
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 10:51:59 AM
He has deep emotional ( and possibly other issues). You can't fix that - only he can if and when he chooses to get help.
You have the right to point this out and suggest that he gets help or that you will no longer be in the relationship- or whatever it is that you are seeking.
I cannot fathom being in a relationship without my partner being emotionally, mentally and physically available and being all in.
I would never consider living together in that scenario of a relationship much less being in a relationship of that nature.
You clearly want more, so just be honest with him. Tell him you want what you want with him and that if he chooses not to aid the relationship that you need to seek a relationship of that nature. Then make a clean break if that's the case. Then there's no guilt.
 freespiritxoxx
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 3
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 10:57:10 AM
Should I stay or should I go.... That's a question every person wonders about in almost each & ever relationship they do have. Your the only one with the answer to that. Would of thought instead of coming to the forums wanting advice from people who don't know you, there would of been a disucssion between you and your man friend. Best to you
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 4
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History
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 10:58:30 AM
Why would you marry him today, without qualms, if you are here stating how unhappy you are about how he's so not a fit for what you want? You have all kinds of 'qualms'. If you got him to marry you, what do you think would change, would he all the sudden have sexual passion for you, no, would he become affectionate, no, would he be the man you dream about and hope he becomes, no. So what's the gain here other than you showing how long you can carry on pretending to love him as he is when you obviously do not?

If he's damaged because some women did not carry out his needed roles for them, then he should get professional help. If he prefers to walk around damaged and use people like you, who enable him, then he is just fine with being 'damaged' and has no plans to be responsible for how his life is going.

Why would not getting married, but getting a house together with separate bedrooms fit your Christian values? This sounds like a man who has no or a very low libido, not a man with high Christian values. People with high Christian values do not use or allow themselves to be used by others. I think you have warped your idea of values to be able to keep being with this man. Read the part of the Bible about being with the right person in the first place, not being with the wrong fit and trying to make it work. There's a huge difference.
 relaxingwithyou
Joined: 12/2/2012
Msg: 5
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 10:59:57 AM

I'm not sure if that is all there is to it or if he is trying to also punish me for what others have done to his self esteem. He's a big ego man...but has always treated me very well...but never quite let me "in" fully to his life.


You bet honey, he sure is punishing you for the errs of others. Thats why there's no marriage proposal and why he pulled out of the house thing and of course no affection. Keeping you around with no affection is cruel. But the very root of the problem is his resentment. WHENEVER you ever hear or witness resentment from a man about women in his past, that guarantees he will be abusive emotionally or physically. Sadness, a little bit of anger or hurt is O.K maybe, but best if the guy is simply neutral and wishes her or them the best. Resentment is toxic.

You are in love with a phantom man who does not exist. Your "friend" has cast an illusion. Mourn that illusion of love you never quite had and cut him out completely. Good luck!
 bethanna44
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 6
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:01:30 AM
@ effervesant...Yeah...it is kind of long isn't it...lol...I'll have to revisit that...thanks :-D

@ notdating...Thanks...You've given me great advice in my needing to just tell him what I want and that I feel he needs to get a handle on his past problems. The living with issue was interesting...He's mentioned "living together" a couple of times...I just won't do it. I did agree to 'room mate' status. But then without fanfare he began finding fault with the house...the deal...etc. I think he thought maybe I would give in to 'living together".

But I am going to do what you suggested...Honesty and directness is always best. But I do really love this guy...I don't want to lose him if there is a chance...but then again..I'm not about wasting my time either. thanks
 Traumerin
Joined: 10/10/2012
Msg: 7
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:12:51 AM
Bethanna, I would cut him off. You deserve someone who doesn't yank you around like that. Know that you are a very beautiful woman who has a lot to offer for the right man. Don't settle for crumbs, you can do much better! Best of luck.
 bethanna44
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 8
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:16:19 AM
Thanks everyone...I hate to say it but these things ARE going through my head...thus why I think it's time to move on...no matter what I feel for him. I know what he is capable of being...I've seen that side of him...but I also know it's time to fish or cut bait...for both of us.

Yes...I agree I am in love with a man I am seeing...not a man who is.

Too bad...because I can see such potential going down the drain for him. Not because of me...I think he may have this problem with others in the future...but he's going to be the loser. Me too in a way...because I loved our time together.

I'm just relieved that I am not the unreasonable one here. When we are in a relationship sometimes we lose perspective and I think although I knew what I should be doing, I needed to hear from the uninvolved that I wasn't being unfair.

That talk is coming within hours...and whatever happens will happen. I'll get over it...regardless of the pain...it may just need to just be done with. :-(
 clayart
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 9
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:23:41 AM
In your original post you didn't say anything positive about this man, yet,

If he ask me to marry him today...I would...without qualms. HOWEVER...

and then there was more negative.

Why would you marry him ????? This man is severely damaged. There is nothing you can do to help. You're not getting any younger. You will only hurt yourself by staying with this guy. Move on and be happy.
 BostonTerrierx2
Joined: 12/7/2012
Msg: 10
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:29:00 AM
I think it's a litle premature to say he has serious emotional issues. Maybe he's just not interested in intimacy or maybe your "strong Christian values" are a problem too. In terms of intamacy, does he share that same "strong Christian" doctrine as you? If he doesn't then I'd say there's a big problem...

I wouldn't marry a woman that I hadn't ever been intimate with. That would be madness. I'm an atheist and I dated a beutiful Muslim woman for a little while. We were together for four months before I was willing to sleep over... But we slept together and believe me, her faith was probably just as strong or stronger than your own. So, there is no reason to shut off intimacy. I think you both might be just a little repressed sexually.

To your credit though...
You've recognised problems with your relationship, your profile and have been very accepting of all the advice given. Your clear head and abilty to actively listen to what others have to say tells me that you've already moved on.

One thing though... If you move on then MOVE ON. Friendship with that dude should be put on a moratorium indefinitely. It's as much for his emotional health as it is for yours, trust me.

(And please take all I've said in stride. I mean no offense and hope you don't take any.)
 Pickupman06
Joined: 6/15/2010
Msg: 11
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:34:34 AM
I'm trying to read your post and understand where you're drawing these conclusions of him being non-commital. From what you say you spend almost every day together and he even asked you to move in with him? That's about as much of a commitment as you can get short of getting married. The poor guy has given you everything he can without insulting your "values" and it's still not enough? Cut the guy some slack and tell him specifically what you you "need" out of your relationship. I don't know what "in" his life means either. Most of the men I know don't gush their every thought and fear the way women do. keep that in mind too. If of course that's what you're referring to.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 12
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:42:33 AM

He knew if we moved in together without marriage it would be separate bedrooms.
.Sooo I've begun to branch out and look into other people to date.
He's made the comment several times that he would send a gift to my wedding if I would ever meet someone else.


And you wonder why he backed out of the house deal? You gave him an ultimatum based on your schedule for marriage-told him to either marry you or you are going to look for someone else who is as desperate as you for instant marriage and told him you'll never share a bedroom with him without a ring and ceremony. Never give ultimatums unless you're willing to accept the outcome, no matter how it turns out. I would never date any woman who gave me the attitude of "my way or the highway" and said she was going to look for some else who is better to meet her needs. She would be instantly kicked to the curb.
 MS.ICENI
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:45:33 AM
We wemen do this and very often never learn. Your inner voice is talking to you loug and clear and you're NOT listening. You are so intent on NOT listening that you would even marry this man. LISTEN to your gut...it's telling you right. He's, at the very least, not ready for any kind of commitment. He's doesn't seem to be giving his share in this relationship in any way, and you're accepting it. In fact, I would venture to say that you are being played. THINK long and hard on this one.
 toightpants
Joined: 11/15/2012
Msg: 14
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:59:21 AM

Should I feel guilty here...

Doesn't matter how you "should" feel, it matters how you do feel.
If you focus on trying to figure out how you "should" feel then you are going to be giving mixed signals on how you do feel, and/or you are going to start attempting to manipulate situations to try and get you to feel how you think you should, which will lead you to the feelings you want, or want to avoid.

I would think this would be a bigger deal

we even went house hunting (his idea...not mine) with him backing out for whatever reason.

"Whatever reason"?
You've been seeing a guy for about a year and he backed out of one of the biggest purchases a human being can make, for whatever reason?

What does whatever reason mean?
That you don't know the reason? So communication in the relationship is bad, you don't really know him all that well, which means "commitment" talk is premature at best, or a sign that you really just aren't compatible so much as settling and trying to make things work via just sticking around?

Or you do know the reason, it just doesn't hold significance to you, so it's just "whatever," which means his reasoning isn't important to you at all, only that he makes decisions how you think he should? So you're pissed he's not changing into who you want him to be?

Or he wasn't clear in his reasoning, you don't trust his reasoning? Which means communication in the relationship sucks, he doesn't know you all that well, which means "commitment" talk is premature at best, or a sign that you really just aren't compatible so much as settling and trying to make things work via just sticking around?



Any thoughts?

My thought is that perhaps you are both just looking to be emotionally gratified and just stuck together for the past year throwing in relationship scripts you think you are supposed to be following trying to get a response out of the other.
That you never "really" grew into a couple (your interest wasn't in the other person so much as how you think they can make you feel) you just expect there to be a magic relationship because you just stuck around, and all this talk about "love" and "feelings" are more about the idea of your relationship or what you want to rationalize it is or to be.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 15
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:01:42 PM
Your religious believes are getting in the way of what could possibly be an intimate relationship. But that is your choice.

I believer that intimacy is way too important to relegate it to the time that you decide to get married. That is something that is discovered and in sink long before that "I do" date takes place. If you are both adults, and believe in a long term relationship, perhaps that is an area that you should explore. But if your religious beliefs are rigid, then stick to your beliefs, but more than likely because both are rigid in that area, you will not move any further.
 bethanna44
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 16
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:10:09 PM
I'm really finding the answers from men vs women interesting. Such different viewpoints...I guess women do come from venus and men from mars! lol

No...you guys that think I'm just a prude...no...and he knows it. We both have come from a fundalmental religious background and both of us disagree with todays moral views...we are both older adults...I am the more affectionate of the two of us. Men being men...I've always excused it as that. He is a 'strong silent' type of alpha male.

I've never let him believe we would ever "live together" as man and wife without the benefit of a ring....HE decided to buy the house...I had no input in that idea coming up. That was all him...although I did agree with the idea.

As to my not mentioning all the good about him...I didn't think it was important to my question. Of course I could go on and on about the good I see in him. I wouldn't have spent this last year with him if I didn't see all that good.

Its his inability to 'evolve' in the relationship that I wonder about. There is and never would be an ultimatim given to him. I set my boundries and he can accept or reject. He seems to be doing the same...and I am in the processs of accepting or rejecting. I still plan on having that talk about what I want to see for myself. He will have to decide if he can accept it or not.

I have always been a pretty patient person and he gets what he wants nearly all the time. I don't mind that at all. But this issue is important to me...I want more in life than an activity buddy. If I could see the natural evolution in the relationship...I wouldn't even have ask this question. But we are just about where a couple would be after 3 or 4 months...and no further...except where the house thing came in...but then it too went by the wayside.

I get the feeling he's standing on a high board and afraid to jump. And I do understand it. I know what happened in his past and I can see his fear. However...I can't as someone else said...fix that for him. I have my own needs that are not being met at all here and don't see how he can get past some of this stuff without his own effort being involved. He's a good man. But a damaged man. I wish I could fix it for him...but I can't. If he asked me to work through it with him I would...but he hasn't and seems to not want to deal with his issues. I can't force it.

My original question was should I feel quilty for thinking it is time to look elsewhere. I don't WANT to move on...but is it the most healthy thing for me to do. I am thinking yes it might be. I'll have that talk with him about my needs and see what he says...and I'll make my choice from there. No ultimatims to him. But we may be at a cross roads of sorts. I hope not. But I THINK I'm ready if so.
 bmore_goat
Joined: 4/8/2009
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:22:24 PM
I can't wrap my head around a woman in her 60's is willing to buy a home with someone she only been dating for a year.


He's made the comment several times that he would send a gift to my wedding if I would ever meet someone else.
But I've also seen tears in his eyes that he tried hard to hide when we had a serious near breakup.

I've never tried to throw up other men to him...he knows I am in love with him... That I would marry him if he asks...but he remains so uncommitted I just wonder why I'm wasting my time. Thus the though that maybe I SHOULD take some of my other offers.


And yet you are ready to have a mortgage with this guy????
 KER6969
Joined: 12/16/2012
Msg: 18
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:33:50 PM
You have no reason to feel guilty whatsoever. You should feel proud that you have committed yourself to him, been loyal and devoted as well as considerate. It does sound like you are giving more than you are getting from him and the relationship.

Sadly it is clear the man has serious past issues, issues which are very deeply rooted that only a counsellor can help him work through. You can't help him with this matter, he has to want to put the past behind him and move forward and given his behaviour towards you and your relationship this past year it doesn't sound like he's ready or willling to do that.

You need to decide if you can continue living this way, giving everything and getting nothing with someone who isn't going to commit anytime soon and who is projecting his past issues on you. Personally, if it was me I'd have been gone long ago. You do deserve better.

Don't pay attention to the bashers on here attacking you for your choices. They have no right to shoot off their mouths and judge you. I say to them LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

Although I'm an atheist, I greatly admire you for staying true to your beliefs and values. I'm the same way and it's something I take great pride in.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 19
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:35:03 PM

.I want more in life than an activity buddy.


And that is what? Obviously he is not affectionate. And how can you be affectionate in a relationship that has no intimacy?

I think you're bout ready to jump boat. Your needs DO need to be met.

I would advice you go to the book store tonight, or buy it online. It's a book called the Five love languages. There you will see what is necessary for people to have their love tanks filled. The importance to be loved. And how to communicate with someone that has a different language.
 BostonTerrierx2
Joined: 12/7/2012
Msg: 20
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:42:47 PM
Fair enough... We all got a little off topic.

1) Nobody thinks you're a prude. I know I understand you're belief system and that's fine. I don't accept it as being healthy but I'm not living your life.

2) The original question: "Should you feel guilty?" I'll answer that with a question: "Is he making you feel guilty or worth less than what you hoped for?" (He said he's buy you a wedding present if you met another man... That's pretty passive aggressive, no?)
 KER6969
Joined: 12/16/2012
Msg: 21
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:51:00 PM
^^^ and your belief system may be unhealthy in the eyes of others and unacceptable to others. We all have our own beliefs, values, and morals and there is no right or wrong in my opinion. We must RESPECT the differences in others.

You are bang on with point #2.
 bethanna44
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 22
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:57:35 PM
Thanks guys (last several posts)

I am aware of the Five Love Languages book...I think that is why I am not willing to continue in a dead end relationship...I know I deserve more...as does everyone.

Wellllll....I just had THAT TALK with him. He nearly always comes over for dinner everynight and I called before he could come over and I let him know I think we are in a no win situation and that I think, since he as much as invited me to find someone else...I thought I needed to branch out.

He took it by explaining all his 'feelings'...but I told him all that is good and I accept it all, but I just don't think I want to hang around waiting for "things might change in the future". The line I think is a real winner...In other words..."just hang around until kingdom come and I just might change my mind."

I've accepted my first date (just prior to this thread...and the reason for the question about guilt) and will begin to move on from there.

I am really surprised...I'm not really hurting in the way I thought I would. I feel my self pride returning. I am still hoping he'll "come to his senses'...but I know that won't happen in the real world. If he cared as much as I did, I wouldn't be posting today. So many thanks everyone...even you fellas who thought I was a real pushy prude...lol. I really appreciate all the input!

Moving on....
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 23
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 1:08:22 PM

I am really surprised...I'm not really hurting in the way I thought I would. I feel my self pride returning.


This is great. I am reading a book on Yoga right now. Something that applies to people of any religion, since the spiritual teaching apply to every religion, but the book had a couple of lines that were so profound that I had to copy them into my Iphone notes.

One is "Conditioned identity." This is what happens when we cannot overcome our on trauma, and things that have happened to us. We become conditioned to believe that we cannot do one thing, or deserve something better.

The other one is "Accept and love vulnerably." We have to accept people for what they are and not compare them with the past. The past is in the past and the new people in the present do not represent the past. Only WE represent that past and if we get stuck in it, we end up living through self fulfilling prophesies. The important part here is also to be vulnerable. If we pretend to feel, yet have a shell and don't allow emotions out or in, we will always be empty.

If he is not willing to open up. Then move on. Search for your own happiness, you deserve it.
 bethanna44
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 24
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 1:29:13 PM
thanks sweetness and outmind...

I mentioned before it was like he was standing on a highdive afraid to jump...well I think that applied to me as well...I knew I needed to have this talk with him but I was afraid of his reaction...and actions...Nothing at at all to save the relationship...and both came about. But its ok! I'm OK. I'm amazed...I'm relieved too. Its done...I survived...at least for the moment...lol. I expect my bad moments...but I plan on staying busy to keep from wallowing. I need to remind myself those were MY dreams...Not HIS reality.

Odd thing though...I mentioned the time he was very emotional about our near breakup a few months back and he kept denying that I saw what I saw. Ummm. He is a man who can't deal with HIS own emotions. I wish I could do something to help him. But I can't. As was said before...at our ages we are who we are...and aren't about to change at this late date.

I know during the whole conversations he kept saying I should take tonight and we'd get together tomorrow and talk about it then. I made no arrangements with him for that. I need to spend some time away from him for my own good.

Again thanks for all the wise advice. Everyone has given me a little piece of the answer and I appreciate it!
 interessant
Joined: 11/12/2009
Msg: 25
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 1:49:31 PM
As a man, I can understand some of those issues. Overall, I see him as in immediate need of social conciliation, and you happen along at the right time. However, he does not hold you in the highest of esteem. If he did, you all would have advanced far beyond this point months ago. I think he is secretly holding out for someone "better". As such, you will always be one for disappointment, even if he turns around and heads "forward" in your eyes. A relationship based on immediate needs rather than confirmed fulfillment will always be shaky in my opinion. (I was married for 51 years when she died; I now realize that I (we) did a little better than all that, but still... I see the symptoms.) It's up to you to decide where to go. His offer to "Attend your wedding if other..." is real. Indefinitely, your love will be tolerated, but not returned-in-full.

It's up to you... I say you should maintain and improve your beauty and your wardrobe. New love and True love are always around if you can find them. I wish you the best.

Ange.
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