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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?      Home login  
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 sharadsun
Joined: 12/24/2012
Msg: 1
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Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?Page 1 of 1    
It's a philosophy that's been ringing in my head for months now.

Humanity is breaching its adolescent stage.

We value free speech and deny others the right to question us. We value individuality and spend our lives in pursuit of standardized living. We praise freedom and fight bloody wars to prove our dedication to higher living.

Humans can be so much more than this. We can reason, compromise, empathize, rationalize. We can innovate, negotiate, meditate, and seek true peace amidst chaos.

Every human mind is but a snapshot of a slice of life, an infinitesimally small cross-section of our infinitesimally small universes. What if we could combine them all? We could see everything, feel everything, understand everything, know everything. Omniscient and omnipresent, all-knowing and all-seeing.

Corruption and hatred and xenophobia drive us from one another. Are there not enough of us in the world to join hands and set an example for others? With all our hearts and minds together, maybe we can prove that there's something more to life than waiting to die.

Will we break free of this self-denying and irresponsible adolescent stage?

I was always told to grow up.

Maybe I should.
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 2
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 5:54:18 AM
there's more than one school of mystical thought that describes "god" and the pursuit of gnosis thereof as nothing more than a metaphorical description of the process of self-discovery.... "I AM".

I AM that I AM, and that is my name forever.

according to this school of thought, and in a biblical context, the crucifixion is real but it doesn't describe a historical event. it describes in allegorical terms the process we all go through towards enlightenment via our own limited senses & human experience. the resurrection is also real, but again not a historical event; just a description of a certain meditative practice where you eventually experience "coming out of your own skull". Golgotha literally means, "the place of the skull".

even the vedic gods are just metaphors for certain brain structures and cognitive processes, see "the vedic gods as figures of biology" by v.g. rele.


Humanity is breaching its adolescent stage.

i'd like to think so, but i don't think so. i like the vedic idea that this planet is the half-way point to somewhere else. like a rest stop on the jersey turnpike. it will always be a rest stop on the jersey turnpike, but that's not to say that we as individuals can't find a more interesting place to get to eventually.
 KWurx
Joined: 10/21/2011
Msg: 3
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 6:15:13 AM
We have the power to create life and destroy it. By definition we are Gods in our own right. Only an egotistical mind could claim to have a true personal relationship with the creator. I'm sure he/she or it has better things to do than to answer your measly prayers. Personally I don't put much faith in humanity as a whole and why should I? We simply do not learn from our mistakes which makes us stupid as a species. I was actually talking about the next generation coming up with a friend the other day and though I've never been one to lock all my doors, 3-5 years from now I will be doing just that. This next generation is going to be detrimental to society and we can thank our parenting, or lack thereof, for what's to come.
 Celje
Joined: 6/18/2012
Msg: 4
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 6:54:23 AM
Duality of man, good vs evil.
 sharadsun
Joined: 12/24/2012
Msg: 5
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Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 7:11:40 AM
Is there ever a point at which we'll realize that the individual can only exist when viewed as part of the whole?

People spend so much time trying to differentiate themselves from others. Concepts of honor, revenge, payback, and capital justice just drive us farther apart.

It's interesting that you bought up Gnosticism, Motown. Are you familiar with it?
 KWurx
Joined: 10/21/2011
Msg: 6
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 3:41:01 PM

Duality of man, good vs evil.


I wish it was as simple as that. However, evil in of itself does not exist. You can't make evil more evil. Evil is simply the absence of good.


Is there ever a point at which we'll realize that the individual can only exist when viewed as part of the whole?

People spend so much time trying to differentiate themselves from others. Concepts of honor, revenge, payback, and capital justice just drive us farther apart.


Not as entire species no. Some of us already have that mindset though as I too believe we will never get anywhere being separated like we are. Unfortunately, like-minded individuals seem to be in the minority.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 7
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 5:20:08 PM
It is a conundrum.
Individually we can be aces.
But collectively....we're a mess.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 8
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 5:51:46 PM

People spend so much time trying to differentiate themselves from others.


This is one of the ways in which worldly-ism manifests itself.


Concepts of honor, revenge, payback, and capital justice just drive us farther apart.


these concepts are steeped deeply into the mores of many societies; some derived through secularism, some derived religiously; but none have spiritual roots.


What are we, but god?


We can be, but only when we begin to exist as part of a "whole".
Read Psalm 82; line 6, and John 10 verses 31 to 38
 sharadsun
Joined: 12/24/2012
Msg: 9
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Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/3/2013 11:33:50 PM
newEarthling: The reason that we're split is because we vilify groups. We're here to talk about science and philosophy, antisemitism isn't going to get you anywhere besides angry.


1 God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the “gods”:
2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.

This is an incredibly interesting passage, Yule. At (8), the sentence "Rise up, O God" seems not directed towards the Father, but towards us. Which is sort of what I've been trying to get at psychologically for the past few months... we are addressed as God. We, together, are capable of Godly acts and Godly kindness, but separate, we're like a schizophrenic mind... constantly fighting and tarrying and causing internal hemorrhage.

I'm not Christian, but I do know of the Sacred Layers of the Church... Christos, Gnosis, Logos. These layers are common among all faiths... the Hindu Pantheon > Sanatana Dharma/Tantra > Om. And as far as popularly practiced religion goes, most faiths have only reached that first layer of Christos... bowing to the human representation of a God, because it's all most of us can wrap our heads around. But Gnosis takes that understanding to a new level, and begins speaking of interconnectivity on a personal level, the All-Is-One belief and the standardization of interdependency, instead of independence.

Logos is not capable of being understood but by the most enlightened among us. I want to reach that level in my lifetime...

There's a clever set of syllogisms in the Hindu texts that describe the relationship between us, the universe, and God. At the basic level is "I am that", the second is "I am", and the third/final is "Aham Brahmasmi", or "I am that which is."
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 10
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/4/2013 6:32:33 AM
According to the mystical interpretation, there is no god but "I AM".

I'm familiar with gnosticism as a concept but I couldn't buy into the whole demiurge thing. I do like the basic premise of gnosticism, though. True "gnosis" or knowledge requires our direct experience of the numinous; and no intermediary (church, priest) is required. These things are seen to actually stand in the way, and they do.


And as far as popularly practiced religion goes, most faiths have only reached that first layer of Christos... bowing to the human representation of a God,


i'll take it further. most faiths have only reached that first layer, because most faiths are an instrument of social control designed to financially support the elect. why do you think "back in the day" that only priests were allowed to learn how to read and write?

the scriptures associated with most faiths have an EXOTERIC and then an ESOTERIC interpretation. the first layer is the EXOTERIC interpretation, intended for the great unwashed. the bumpkins get "christ died on the cross for your sins", because they are profane (outside the temple). meanwhile back at the ranch, there are at least two different ESOTERIC interpretations of "christ" and "cross" and "sins", and they are completely different than what people are taught. i'm using xtianity, but it's the same for all organized religions.
 relaxingwithyou
Joined: 12/2/2012
Msg: 11
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/4/2013 12:03:29 PM
I belong to a meditation and other spiritual self-help type groups. Often I hear my friends profess that this world could be such a better place. In my youth I had an Egyptian meditation teacher/personal friend who was nothing short of an amazing human, he had previously been a psychic to the rich and famous including politicians and had a prime time t.v. show. He got past all that and mostly just taught meditation to a select group when I knew him.

He taught me that the earth is basically a gnarly place, it's a place were the greedy, dishonest, self-centered etc...can work out their dramas. That one cannot learn to get beyond lying for example without the stage to lie and for it get them in heaps of trouble. Enough trouble to eventually value the truth.

Ok so there are many levels and perhaps humanity on this planet is meant to evolve here collectively bla bla bla however the world is still currently an unpleasant place for billions of people due to suppression, wars etc... Slave trafficing has never flourished as much as it does now. How special no? And how about the life of an average Chinese citizen?

So I basically propose that this planet is very dense and being born here ensures one will endure many trials and tribulations for ultimate growth. Will it get "better"? Is it supposed it get better? I don't know, but I do know I do my best to help alleviate suffering and to uplift thought forms.
 sharadsun
Joined: 12/24/2012
Msg: 12
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Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/4/2013 4:28:29 PM
Motown: That's what I was talking about =p the three levels of Profane, Exalted, and Absolute. And as of now, most people take only the Profane into account... whether they're atheists or devoutly religious, they only see what's directly placed in front of them. Once they understand the concept of the Exalted level (Gnosis, Sanatana Dharma, Kabbala), they begin to aspire towards the Absolute. It's directly reflected in humankind... we're materially bound, our society revolves around exploitation and personal gain, and selflessness is branded as socialism. Everything has double meanings, politics is litigious in nature, and bureaucracy is valued as an end, not a means... higher than the well-being of society.

Relax: That follows pretty standard dogmas of the Buddhist philosophy: Life is suffering, and there cannot be life without suffering. The goal of life is to experience all the suffering we are fated to, and ascend to a higher plane with our problems cast behind us. Get it all out of the way, I suppose.
 BeingisBeing
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 13
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/13/2013 7:44:56 PM
"Rise up, O God" seems not directed towards the Father, but towards us. "

sure! what is God without us? we are the father, son, spirit...all of it. we're THAT beyond all conceptualizations, even the religious ones. father, son spirit, are all in God. and I, as all there is, give life to God.

"Logos is not capable of being understood but by the most enlightened among us. I want to reach that level in my lifetime..."

enlightenment is not reached by cleverness on your part. there is nothing personal in enlightenment. if you'd like to reach the absolute in your lifetime, then drop the I that would like to reach it. :) it's here for the taking.

In reality, all the I am's fade away and what is left is the timeless presence, prior to all, giving all life. "I am that", even just "I Am", is a body/mind trying to express it's infiniteness at the level of particulars. but the particulars are not and will never be. it's like you said, sharadsun, that the particular can only exist when viewed as separate from the whole.

the single pixel, the painting, the painter, the canvas...it is all one thing. all distinctions are in the mind. in reality there is none one. YOU ARE THAT. no striving or seeking is necessary, you already are the divine.

the only way to see clearly is to go beyond the mind, which basically means leaving the mind totally alone, giving it no attention, stopping the belief in a separate body/mind. what remains is the real. everything else is imagination. including my being on pof looking for a woman :p the body/mind plays out it's conditioning in the world. no need to prevent or indulge in it, just let it happen and know you are beyond. it's a game we can watch with dispassion, safely. that is the "witness" religions speak of.
 sharadsun
Joined: 12/24/2012
Msg: 14
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Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/13/2013 11:33:49 PM
Being:

I treat my life like a fairly complex video game, honestly. In the last few months I've evolved so much in terms of recognition of reality, that the mundane life has truly faded into the background. I live to keep my commitments, and that is all. Once my commitments are spent, I can retreat to a life of relative solitude.

God is a massive body of water, tarnished from its previous purity by the interference of murk and silt, and the water is life itself. Human bodies are but disposable cups that lift the tarnished water and distill the purity from it, returning the purity to the ocean while annihilating the silt.

The purpose of life is to return the purity of this body of water. The purpose of INTELLIGENT life is to accelerate this process exponentially, by relying on free will to make mutually beneficial choices which lead to interdependence, purity, and the phenomenon of a manifest God amongst the human spirit.

But we've failed this terribly, as we fight among ourselves and tarnish the water only more than it was before.

That's how I see it.
 greyvulpe
Joined: 2/10/2011
Msg: 15
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Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/19/2013 9:50:32 AM
How about this concept of God, dating back to the Hermeticists, Plato, Plotinus:
There is nothing but God.
So, if indeed we are god sparks out here on the third rock from a yellow dwarf sun, on the edge of
a ho hum sized galaxy, just another fraction of an expanding multiverse-
what then is our purpose, at all?
To experience and love one another.

Namaste,Truly

The Greyvulpe
 allthegoodnamesrtaken1
Joined: 1/12/2012
Msg: 16
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/19/2013 4:58:29 PM
Sharad ::

You've mentioned enlightenment. I wanted to share a small piece of a book I read some time ago.

"Imagine a tiny spark of the essence of God existing deep within each of us. If our minds and emotions are distracted by competing spotlights of greed, wealth, jealousy, lust, pain, depression, elation or even thought itself --
We become blinded to that spark in the center of our soul.

Every so often in history a great prophet will arrive - A Buddha, A Jesus or a Muhammad who can not only see this
spark within himself but focus on nothing else but that spark. Feeding that tiny flame into a roaring fire until
the fire itself becomes the guiding center of that individual.

Those individuals will exude this fire to those around them. It's not surprising others would view this person as
extraordinary and deify him.

Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad each experienced a spiritual awakening through their practices of deep meditation.
Meditation techniques are found in every ancient religion. The focus on "Breathing" is what sets them apart.

The term "Holy Spirit" had its origins in the Jewish writings of the old testament. In Hebrew "Ruah Hakodesh"
translates to Holy Spirit. Ruah literally means "Wind" but in earlier biblical translations like the king J
version, it's translated as "Ghost" In other passages God's presence is described with another Hebrew concept-
Nephesh - The Breath of God

In basic everyday understanding - -It's the idea that God is what animates all life."

Myself, I embrace the Buddha teachings, bit of the Tao/Dao and Christianity. Buddha's teachings resonate with
me the most......

"Our downfalls come in different forms: We seek sensual pleasures, food, alcohol, sex, excitement; we seek to
obtain what we don't have; A bigger house, a new car or we seek to get rid of something we don't want --
annoying people, extra pounds a physical ailment.

The origin of Dukkha comes down to wanting what we don't have or trying to become what we are not."
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 17
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:40:27 PM
Corruption and hatred and xenophobia drive us from one another.

Is there a medical term, expressed in greek, with -phobia at the end of it, that means "the fear of intellectualizing and spewing meaningless platitudes"?

I don't mean you Original Poster, not at all. this just occurred to me at random, I don't know why. Probably my body was overpowering my mind at the time when this question came to me.
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 18
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:44:04 PM
"Is there ever a point at which we'll realize that the individual can only exist when viewed as part of the whole?"

No, there is no point ever. This can be proven with a little thought experiment.

1. I don't view myself as part of the whole.
2. I exist.
--------------------------
3. Therefore, QED, there is never a point in which I can only exist when I view myself as part of the whole.
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 19
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:53:10 PM
"the bumpkins get "christ died on the cross for your sins", because they are profane (outside the temple). meanwhile back at the ranch, there are at least two different ESOTERIC interpretations of "christ" and "cross" and "sins", and they are completely different than what people are taught. i'm using xtianity, but it's the same for all organized religions."

I heard from ex-evangelists, at regular meetings of secular humanists, that in some sects, notably (witnessed by the group members among the humanists) in Salvation Army and in Yehova's Witness congregations, the leaders, the elders, the top officers, all the way down to the youngest, the most following followers, the GIs, suffered equally from the guilt that resulted from not being sure of doing 1. god's will and 2. if yes, doing enough of it.

So at least in these two churches, the 'elite' was indistinguishable from the "bumpkins". There were no inner groups chasing hedonistic delights, even if only in the sense of intellectualism and drinking deeply red wine. Everyone felt quilty, equally as guilty as the next person, and everyone suffered equally and greatly from this guilt.

And this was the word of... me, so please help me god.
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 20
Humanism and Innate Power. What are we, but god?
Posted: 1/19/2013 7:00:21 PM
How about this concept of God, dating back to the Hermeticists, Plato, Plotinus:
There is nothing but God.

Whoopsiedaisy. All three believed in a great number of gods and demi-gods.

It was Socrates who had been accused of atheism.

At the time in the area monotheism was not popular and probably many never even heard of it. Monotheism was a foreign concept to all, except perhaps for the historians of the time.
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