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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 nutshell-
Joined: 6/27/2012
Msg: 1
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?Page 1 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
I would like to offer a few criticisms to marriage and see what people think, if they still believe in it or not and why:

1)50% or more of marriages end in divorce, what makes you think you would be in the 50% who make it, don’t you think all those people who failed thought they would make it? What makes you think you’re an exception?
Plus, of the 50% who make it, how many of those are miserable? How many of them are bored out of their minds?

2)Everything that marriage offers can be achieved without being married (sex, children, companionship).

3) Spouses get lazy after marriage, they having sex, they gain weight, etc because they are protected by the legal institution of marriage (they have their partner trapped, they don’t have to try to attract anymore)

4) Marriage is an unchallenged cultural/religious norm that people do because its tradition, because its what is expected, considered normal, good, successful...

5)If you really love and trust your partner then why do you need the government/church/3rd part etc to sign a contract and validate your relationship? It seems to me that if you REALLY love and trust your partner then a 3rd party isn't necessary.

These are just a few of my thoughts, I have more questions and criticisms, I would love to hear your thoughts:
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 2
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 8:36:47 PM
I'm not a fan, never have been.

To me it's a dying paradigm.

What fascinates me is that in saying that, people then often assume that you have no interest in a LTR. As though the two are automatically synonymous?
 J_bird61
Joined: 10/22/2011
Msg: 3
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 8:41:10 PM
Wow. You're not fond of marriage, I see.
I'll be the devils advocate.

1). 50% of all marriages do make it. Of that 50% some are not happy marriages. Of the 50% that got divorced some of those people aren't happy either. Of both married and single people, there are those that are bored out of their minds. The married ones blame it on their marriage, the single ones blame it on the fact that they're alone.

2.)Marriage has a lot to offer, sex, legitimate children, a family unit and companionship.

3.) There are lazy fat people in the world. Some are married, some aren't.

4.)The institution of marriage has been around a really long time. It has offered protection, companionship, stability, and social acceptance.

5.) When people love one another, they want to express it with promises that are made to last a lifetime.

Seems to me, you're blaming a whole lot on marriage but not looking at "people" whether single, married or divorced.

Oh and yes, I believe in marriage. I've seen some great ones that are enviable, lovely, quite productive and the ones involved in them don't want them to ever end.

And, adding, for myself, I don't know that I ever want to get married again.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 4
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 8:49:35 PM

Marriage has a lot to offer, sex, legitimate children, a family unit and companionship.
You can have all of that without being married.

And what exactly does 'legitimate' in reference to children mean?

The institution of marriage has been around a really long time.
So what? Does that mean it should automatically be respected or joined into without some type of forethought as to what exactly you are entering and why.. ?

social acceptance.
I'm pretty sure that would be the LAST reason I would choose to get married.

Sooooooooo many people get married because they feel they have to, just because 'it's what is done', because of a childhood fantasy, because their parents insist on it, because they feel God won't love/accept them.. in all honesty, much of the reasoning I see is downright ridiculous. And really, the proof is in the pudding.
 nutshell-
Joined: 6/27/2012
Msg: 5
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 8:53:43 PM
Thanks, I appreciate your comments, devils advocate is always nice for the sake of discussion.
 J_bird61
Joined: 10/22/2011
Msg: 6
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 8:58:05 PM
Have you ever seen a good marriage? Surely you must have?
Just because you may not want it, doesn't mean it's "bad".
It is what you make of it. There are people out there who it's not for, but there are people out there who it is for.
I think you should feel lucky that you get to choose. There was a time when choice was almost not relative to marriage.

This is what legitimate means -
Legitimate - a : lawfully begotten; specifically : born in wedlock
b : having full filial rights and obligations by birth
2
: being exactly as purposed : neither spurious nor false
3
a : accordant with law or with established legal forms and requirements
b : ruling by or based on the strict principle of hereditary right
4
: conforming to recognized principles or accepted rules and standards

This is what marriage has offered. Why's that bad? exactly?
And I'm not saying to have a child out of wedlock is bad either. This is what marriage has offered.
Yes some people have gotten married because they thought they had to. And others got married because they wanted to. What is your point?
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 7
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 8:59:10 PM
I believe in marriage
and hope to get remarried.

The whole "we can drive each other crazy but still love and put up with each other" thing
is very reassuring in life.

Otherwise....you are only one bad mood away from being kicked to the curb.
And who can grow old together with that?
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 8
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 9:22:28 PM

Have you ever seen a good marriage? Surely you must have?
No, to be honest I haven't. I'm sure they're out there, but I've been hit on by one too many married man to believe the piece of paper means much more than mere verbal commitment.

Just because you may not want it, doesn't mean it's "bad".
Oh no no, I don't think it's bad. I could list off some things I think are sweet and beautiful about it. Just not enough to step into something I don't respect. And really, to each their own. It's just not important to me and I don't buy into the necessity of it. Never will.

I think you should feel lucky that you get to choose. There was a time when choice was almost not relative to marriage.
Oh believe me, I agree with you! Which is actually another reason why I don't 'believe in it'..

This is what legitimate means -
Legitimate - a : lawfully begotten; specifically : born in wedlock
b : having full filial rights and obligations by birth
2
: being exactly as purposed : neither spurious nor false
3
a : accordant with law or with established legal forms and requirements
b : ruling by or based on the strict principle of hereditary right
4
: conforming to recognized principles or accepted rules and standards
I get the dictionary definition, lol..but really, in today's society.. with rampant divorce and common law relationships, what does it MEAN? Nothing as far as I'm concerned.

My daughters all have my last name, and I said no to both proposals. You can label them illegitimate all you want, but it doesn't change their reality one iota. I also would still be single today regardless.

Yes some people have gotten married because they thought they had to. And others got married because they wanted to. What is your point?
Really, you have to ask?

The fact that people do it because they think they have to.. out of a sense of obligation to their parents, religion or some kind of blind 'social duty' merely because the tradition/institution has been around for a long time, is more than slightly ridiculous. As you said, we have a choice today.. didn't before. Why is that?

Imo because its a dying paradigm.
 Space_Weaver
Joined: 11/27/2012
Msg: 9
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 9:39:33 PM
It could go either way for me. I believe in marriage, yet I see that it doesn't take a piece of paper, ring or fancy ceremony to show that you are committed in loving a person.
 cbbull21
Joined: 3/9/2009
Msg: 10
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 9:54:26 PM
50% of marriages may end in divorce, but that's not a clear perspective. It would be more like 25% of first marriages end in divorce, and greater than 50% of 2nd, 3rd,... marriages end in divorce. Not everyone sees marriage as 'Til Death Do Us Part.

If you're miserable and bored out of your mind then it really has little or nothing to do with your partner. If you want to fly from California to New York, would you rather get on a new plane every 100 miles, or only stop if you need refueling?

Marriage as the state sees it is a compact policy for their liability and responsibilities which may concern you.

Why do they even have wedding receptions or celebrations? Not only are you exchanging vows and declaring your intentions, others now have expectations of you. Your marriage affects their lives.
 Celje
Joined: 6/18/2012
Msg: 11
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 10:26:09 PM
Too many conditions and the terms are out of date.
 Ochema
Joined: 1/12/2013
Msg: 12
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/17/2013 11:52:23 PM
The best wedding scene that comes to mind, is in the movie "Natural Born Killers". They were alone on a bridge, praying to their own Gods and whatnot, but it was pretty cool.

Some people like to proclaim their love, and marriage is the venue to do just that. It entails that some finances will be shared and whatnot; if nothing else. And now I'm thinking of "Intolerable cruelty"
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 13
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 4:17:55 AM
marriage is sacrasant.

Its every where, it serves a distinct purpose. it's not true love, but is to the eco system we are all a cell that together make this thing they call earth.

universal love. without it, whether amongst the birds the humans or the dolphins, mother nature couldn't operate.

it's a sign of the beginning of our species extinction that we have moved on from that.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 14
view profile
History
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 5:28:17 AM
Relative to the point of all this, is that there are two basic kinds of marriage.

One is the legal structure, set up long ago and repeatedly modified, which was codified into the structure of our society in order to help the propertied people use the government to control everyone. This is the part of marriage that I DON'T like. This is the version of it which is all about who owns what and who, who's responsible for what bills, who pays for this and that, and who owns property and who give it on to whom. It's in the tax structure, the mortgage crap, voting rights, citizenship, property rights, and on and on.

The other version, is the part I very much want and like. It's the long-term, deep personal commitment both to another person, and to oneself; the dedication to ideal of care and of belief in the meaningfulness of what we do with each other.

You can do either version of it without the other one, and you can do both at the same time. Since I am even now being held back from finding someone to share life with by the legal crap (and what most people THINK about what the legal crap means about me), I am very averse to again getting involved with version one.

But I am dedicated to version two, and have been for many many years, and always will be.
 Celje
Joined: 6/18/2012
Msg: 15
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 7:01:41 AM
Everyone has a choice, if you want to be part of a union without legal shackles, don't sign their contracts.
Create your own spell together, find a couple people to witness the union, your married. Isn't that what goes on at a wedding anyway?
 DoubleParked
Joined: 10/22/2008
Msg: 16
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 7:17:10 AM

The whole "we can drive each other crazy but still love and put up with each other" thing
is very reassuring in life.

Otherwise....you are only one bad mood away from being kicked to the curb.
And who can grow old together with that?


Well put, Stray_cat<

Marriage doesn't necessarily keep one from getting 'kicked to the curb' for being cranky, but it does show a level of committment to put up with another's flaws and foibles just as they put up with yours.
 Pinky127
Joined: 1/7/2012
Msg: 17
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 7:20:40 AM

Otherwise....you are only one bad mood away from being kicked to the curb.
And who can grow old together with that?


**Raises hand** - i could!
I like being kept on my toes,hehehe......
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 18
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 8:10:33 AM

marriage is sacrasant.
That right there is hilarious! Lol..

You know, I felt and acted more loyal and committed to someone I had absolutely no outward sign of commitment with. To me, such things begin and flow from the heart.. I don't need someone outside of me to 'sanctify' that. Not when my soul feels married to another on a deep and spiritual level that will last beyond any piece of paper.

If you think that you do? Power to you.

To me it's odd that so many people think that if you speak negatively about marriage, or want no part of it.. that you are somehow not romantic and cannot make a long term commitment. Major false dichotomy to my mind, but then it shows how deep social mores run...
 timeforall
Joined: 8/26/2012
Msg: 19
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 2:21:21 PM
Marriage is for the young . . stability for children. Marriage is also a decent economic unit, with each party more or less contributing to the whole. But most people are not compatible over time and marriage shackles people together, possibly longer than they should be. There is no reason for those 45+ to get married again, except some people demand it of their partners as evidence of the love between them.
 RussArtLover
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/18/2013 4:05:05 PM
OP
1. Never been married. I believe it to be the most important thing in my life. Not as a convention or catalyst but simply as the finest way to raise or be a family. Only BORING people get BORED :)

2. If I ever got divorced, I would divorce my children too so they could find a home with a loving married couple.

3. If you are attracted to the show then you have no chemistry. You are just an actor in a play. Playtime ends.

4. Many religions do incorporate marriage but marriage predates every religion on Earth.

5. If both partners are of sound mind they do not need any document to join in bliss. If anything they are just a fair warning for others to stay away.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 21
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/20/2013 1:10:27 AM
I see nothing wrong with the ancient custom of taking a mate and having a wedding, but I see plenty wrong with involving either or both of church and/or state in what should simply be a private marriage contract between two people.

Once you have third parties involved, there is bound to be trouble. If I were to get married today, I would NOT get a licence (I don't need ANYONE's permission to marry) and I would NOT sign a marriage register (contract).
 andynamics
Joined: 6/13/2006
Msg: 22
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/21/2013 9:38:30 PM
I don't know about marriage, as in the piece of paper, but I'm not going to settle into the job, wife, house, kids, retirement paradigm. It's just not for me.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/21/2013 9:47:40 PM
I believe marriage is a contract based on fear of lack.

besides...

I would never marry a man who would want to marry me. (Something can't be right with the guy). lol.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 24
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/21/2013 9:59:51 PM
OP you wrote that spouses get lazy because they are in a trap and have no reason to need to attract anymore...

not true for all.
when I was married I always wanted to look the best for my husband when he came home from work.
I wanted to look my best for him all the time.
we didnt feel trapped at all.
we felt free to raise our children within a married loving home.
it was important for our children to know who mommy and daddy were and that we were married.
it is like a safety net and one that the couple will hopefully try to work more instensly to keep up....
before throwing one to the curb.
 zunflower
Joined: 1/23/2013
Msg: 25
Marriage, do you believe in it, why/not?
Posted: 1/26/2013 7:45:22 PM
I think one first has to look at the purpose of marriage - as it was originally supposed to be. Originally, marriage was not about love, but about survival and procreation.

The marriage contract was, essentially, a civil contract between a man and a woman protecting both sides of the partnership.

Unfortunately, the reality is that one partner can leave another partner with children and the partner has no means of bringing in an income (or an insufficient income) to provide for those children.

So whatever one calls it, there has to be a contract to protect the interests of everybody involved - man, woman, and children.

With regard to the church or other religious institution, I am firmly of the opinion that anything religious has nothing to do with the state. A legal marriage contract should be a civil contract. If religious people want their marriage blessed, that's fine, but it's a civil contract, not a religious contract.

That said, the state of marriage should not have anything to do with tax reductions. It's none of the state's business whether people are married or not.

That's my take...
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