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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Is Jesus the son of God      Home login  
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 DevilfromToronto
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 2
Is Jesus the son of God Page 1 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
if there was Jesus, he was only an ordinary man, he became the son of God only in story book(s) which were written by human hands
 RyanohRyan
Joined: 11/12/2012
Msg: 3
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 1:48:47 PM
Muhammad is a false prophet. He was born out of wedlock, and the father did not follow God's specific orders, as stated in the Quran.

I don't get it. Why did this religion take off? It's based on a false foundation.

--

My interpretation as to why God made Jesus was because God already set a system of rules in place. In order for God to communicate with man, he would need an enterpreter.

I'm sure a lot of things are misinterpreted, and lost in translation. King James version? Pshhhh...don't read anything a King says.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 4
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 2:39:32 PM
Before I answer this....
I must ask a question.

If for the sake of argument....lets pretend he wasn't.
Does that mean you would throw away your bible?
Does that mean what he said doesn't make sense?

Is his teachings ONLY good if he was a son of God.
Or universal.....no matter who his father was.

I think you need to contemplate that
before you ask your question.

As for me...his teachings are just as profound
no matter his divinity.
Even more so....without it.
:-P
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 5
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:00:31 PM


Does that mean what he said doesn't make sense?


It means there is a substantial credibility issue which puts in doubt anything and everything he said. It also raises the question of ulterior motives. Lies are not the foundation of truth.



Now Islam states that God has no sons and Jesus was one of the Prophets and in Judesium they don't even think that he is not seen as a prophet at all.

Whats your take on this.


Those who were in charge of making up tall stories couldn't agree on the "details".



If Jesus was G-d incarnate how could he then be his own father AND son at the same time?


he was a southerner ;-) why do think he is the shepherd and believers are his sheep ?
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 6
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 4:26:24 PM
How can it be only one? Doesn't make sense to me and never will no matter who thinks I'm blasphemous because of it. I think we are all 'sons and daughters' of God (not that I perceive of God in a parental sense) and that thought is much more inspiring to me.

So is the idea of a Boddhisattva as opposed to a savior nailed to a cross for MY supposed sins (best to not get me started on this). But hey, to each their own.

Plus too, If Jesus was G-d incarnate how could he then be his own father AND son at the same time?
Hey c'mon, didn't you know the trinity concept explains that away?? (you forgot the holy spirit part)
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 7
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 4:35:28 PM

Whats your take on this.

Its all made up.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 8
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 4:42:43 PM
Whether Jesus is divine or not
doesn't rest on his words.
Only your interpretation of them.

There is no lie.
Only confusion.
:-P
 RussArtLover
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 9
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History
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 4:51:47 PM
Sometimes it's hard to actually IMAGINE what you are reading AS you read it. Try reading the Bible that way. Imagine the dirt under they're feet, the sorrow in they're faces, or joy. These people couldn't read or write. Talk was all they had.
 Secondhand_Lion
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 11
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History
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 5:52:48 PM
I'd rather know if Pluto is a dog.....what the hell is Goofy?
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 12
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 6:03:53 PM
Like many of the previous posters, I believe Jesus was NOT the literal or biological son of God, or even God himself. He was an astounding human, a prophet who did receive revelation. I do believe the word 'son' is meant to be metaphorical, and to escribe the closeness of the relationship... any person who loves and worship God s just as much a son or daughter of God. In Islam the word 'abid' is used to mean servant... or some say slave of God. But this doesnt mean God has a whip in his hand and we are slaving around for him like we commonly understand.

I do not believe Jesus died for peoples sins. Everybody is accountable for their own sins.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 13
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 7:38:50 PM
At OP


Is Jesus the son of God.


Jesus was the anointed one; the son-of-man (though not the first one); the Messiah (but not a national messiah as the Jews were waiting on)

That is what it means; however, if you feels Jesus died for our sins, then he could only do that if he was of divine origin; no other human could have that authority otherwise! To believe this is an act of faith!


Now Islam states that God has no sons and Jesus was one of the Prophets


Islam says: Jesus was born of a virgin (meaning an immaculate conception)
Jesus was a messiah
Jesus was filled with the holy spirit

hardly an "ordinary" man!



and in Judesium they don't even think that he is not seen as a prophet at all.


Jesus is not recognized by Judiasm in any way, and stripped of any Jewish attributes
This is what happens to any orthodox Jew who should ever convert to christianity!
What little is mentioned of him in later Jewish scripture is done in a negative light.

------------------------------------------------


If Jesus was G-d incarnate how could he then be his own father AND son at the same time?


He isn't!

God (the father) is taken to mean God in the eternal (timeless) realm
While Jesus is the embodiment of God in the temporal realm
Thus the terms are semantical; they are otherwise one and the same!
-------------------------------------------------------------


Everybody is accountable for their own sins.


Short of death; it is impossible for humans to take account of all their sins, even if they are truly sorry and remorseful. No person can undue or reverse all the wrongs that were said or done.
 RussArtLover
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 14
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History
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 8:21:51 PM
I preferred Hercules in my youth. Grew up reading Greek mythology. Attended church a lot too but always saw that as philosophy. I believed Hercules really lived. Think I did believe Jesus lived for awhile. Don't really think either lived other than in a writers mind. Good stuff if you can afford it. Thousands of people died in wars so it would remain an option. I think it is important that people at least learn the concept of a perfect being. The old saying "No one is perfect" is a bit overkill. People can be perfect for short periods. Often right after experiencing Nirvana or first thing in the morning, those little moments of clarity before they crash and run for coffee.
 lyingcheat
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 15
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History
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/5/2013 8:22:29 PM

Is Jesus the son of God.
Whats your take on this.


Nahhh... the whole thing is ridiculously improbable.

But whether or not this is true is a real conundrum...

Jor-El is Superman's biological father, the husband of Lara, and a leading scientist on the planet Krypton before its destruction. He foresaw the planet's fate, but was unable to convince his colleagues in time to save the inhabitants. Jor-El was able to save his infant son Kal-El (Superman), sending him in a homemade spaceship towards Earth, just moments before Krypton exploded. After constructing his Fortress of Solitude, Superman honored his deceased biological parents with a statue of Jor-El and Lara holding up a globe of Krypton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jor-El
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 16
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Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 12:46:41 AM
If God were in fact and extraterrestrial alien astronaut, who inseminated Mary to produce a hybrid alien/human offspring.
Then it would work.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 17
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:55:22 AM
"""""
Is Jesus the son of God.

Now Islam states that God has no sons and Jesus was one of the Prophets and in Judesium they don't even think that he is not seen as a prophet at all.

Whats your take on this."""""

You're right. In our building, Jesus is the son of Mrs. Gonzalves, the super's common-law wife.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 18
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 5:04:33 AM

Sometimes it's hard to actually IMAGINE what you are reading AS you read it. Try reading the Bible that way. Imagine the dirt under they're feet, the sorrow in they're faces, or joy. These people couldn't read or write. Talk was all they had.


That's eerily true. so much like rock-and-roll literature in the 1970s: "The Rolling Stone publishes interviews with people who can't talk, written by journalists who can't write, to be read by people who can't read."

If you read most passages in the bible, they are written with the level of language- and thinking skills of a fifth-grader, or a southern bible-thumper, or a Jamaican welfare mama. "Go me to do shor, some coz I said to rea tomr chu ca?" I can't do it authentically. But there Book is full of redundant expressions, or omitted links, or things that clearly doesn't make sense.

It seems that religions and religionism, as well as fundamental fanaticism, attracted only the stupid and the illiterate then as much as they still attract them now.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 19
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 5:18:10 AM
**********Hey c'mon, didn't you know the trinity concept explains that away?? (you forgot the holy spirit part)************


No, I did not now that the trinity concept explains that. Away, yes.

The trinity concept instead keeps repeating an impossibility, in which it tries to prove mathematically that 1 - 3 = 0.

Beyond that, the trinity concept is a huge hoax, a blindingly obvious logical stupidity, it's not even on the level of sophistication of a fallacy.

Basically, Christianity got off the ground due to the popularization of the holy tritinity. It went like this:

Christian leader: Holy trinity.
Learned critic: 1 - 3 can't be equal to zero. Holy trinity is not possible. It is a self-contradiction.
People: i don't know what "self-contradiction" means. But I do know I hate the guts of those who throw words like that around. My boss throws words like that around. So I'm going to go with the trinity thing, it is more my speed. It provides a bit of very much needed solidarity against the eggheaded morons who use long words.

There is another slant to trinity facilitating the spread of christianity. WITH its inherent impossibility.

If something is impossible, it can still be believed by humans. Furthermore, they are more apt and likely to believe in something impossible. The reasoning goes a bit like this: "Anyone can beleive something that is possible. In fact, no belief is needed in that case. You need a lot of beleif to beleive the impossible. So my belief dollars go for the ticket with the impossible."

And the third slant? There is a third one.

It is a safety valve to weed out the critics. "You don't believe the trinity is possible? Hey, guys!! There is bloke who says the trinity is impossible. yet it is the dearest thing to our hearts. It saves us, it gets us into the kingdom of heaven." By now there are a number of teamsters gathered around the heretic. "Wot he say, bro? he say you no beleev in tri... god? We gotta mess with your face now." To spread an ideology, it has to have a mechanism in place that makes it automatic and very easy to identify the enemies of the ideology (who are not necessarily the enemies of the cause), and silence them.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 20
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 5:26:05 AM
""""""""""""""If God were in fact and extraterrestrial alien astronaut, who inseminated Mary to produce a hybrid alien/human offspring.
Then it would work."""""""""""""

I guess it would, but Jesus would still not be god, but god's son. And it is against the scriptures, not so much the Alien theory, which is not mentioned in the NT, so it is possible, because it's not directly excluded from possibilities. but there is definite mention that mary was not inseminated, not by god even, but was given the strength to bear the messiah without the original sin (without maculation), and this strength was given to her by the holy spirit, who is not god, but instead, it is god, but a different one and the same one at the same time and in the same respect.

A total quagmire of logical impossibility. I can accept that god is capable of impregnating a woman without male semen. Everything is possible through miracles. Miracles CAN be believed. I don't, but they can be. But logical impossibilities can never be believed, and the trinity concept is a logical impossibility.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 21
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 5:28:13 AM
""""""""""What little is mentioned of him in later Jewish scripture is done in a negative light."""""""""""""

What Jewish scripture exists that was written after Jesus' life? I think you got a bit confused there. Not a big problem, but one needs to be careful.
 Demigod1979
Joined: 12/4/2011
Msg: 22
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Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 5:38:57 AM

Every time Jesus said he was the son of G-d in the NT I read it as a metaphor, not a claim of literal relation.

I think it should also be noted that in the OT such a title was applied to the kings of Israel or to Israel itself (e.g., Psalm 2:7, 2 Samuel 7:14, 1 Chronicles 28:6, Exodus 4:22).


So to allow for the possibility a Jew everyone accepts as Jew to be saying and meaning he's an actual relative of G-d, or G-d incarnate is patently absurd.

Yup, previous messiahs were all human beings, who were chosen by God. The idea of God coming down to earth and taking on human form is ludicrous, not just for Judaism but monotheism in general (the Muslims also believe that God is completely transcendent). IMO, the idea of a divine being coming down to earth is a pagan idea (and Christianity most likely took this from the Greeks).
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 23
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 12:01:48 PM
I believe Jesus was an enlightened person
a prophet.

I think the son of God is a metaphor....he is not a actual son.
no more than we are the sons and daughters of God.
Jesus was an observant Jew who broke some of the rabbinical laws which he saw as being overly zealous and not the true law of God.
He rebelled and he was a leader. That is why the head rabbis did not like him
But not all Jews were head rabbis. Not all the Jews wanted him dead.
The first followers of Jesus,...were all Jewish.

He did not die for our sins.
It is no place in the Old Testament,....where the laws that Jesus must have lived by,..is it written that our sins can be washed away from the blood of any person.
and God , according to the Old Testament was not a man with blood.

The word in the Old Testament that says a child shall be born of a virgin...
(which is actually not about Jesus at all)
is a word that is incorrectly translated.
In Hebrew there is a word for virgin and a different word for young maiden.
the word used in the Old Testament means young maiden,...NOT virgin.
a young maiden is not necessarily a virgin.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 25
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 12:45:32 PM
Paul
How could God, the Father....have easily married Mary?
is God a man with feet and a body like us...
do we see Gods face like we see one another?
God is way above us.
Jesus did not come to do away with the OT (Torah) system.
He was an observant Jew. He ate kosher, he observed Shabbath.
He did break Sabbath laws that were man made....rabbi made....not the God given rules in Torah.

it does not say in the Torah that a mans blood will save us from our sins.
not even the son of Gods blood.
The temple offerings of animal blood sacrifice were done for certain specific sins.
and they were animals of a certain type..unblemished,...kosher,...
Never a human being was to be sacrificed.

I have my own PERSONAL beliefs which have nothing to do with this and I do not openly share them. However,...I myself at times pray in Jesus name,..feel a closeness to Jesus,...
not only to Jesus,...but to other prophets also. I do not think any of them are more of Gods son than the other. Not everything in the Bible is literal.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 26
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 12:56:15 PM
well Jeffrey..
since God is none of those....
the story of God impregnating Mary is not a literal story.
besides all of that....
if Jesus is the savior....why must he have been born of a virgin?
and how does anyone know whether or not Mary was a virgin?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 28
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 1:24:26 PM

This is turning out to be a very humorous issue, as those who don't believe in the Bible are the ones who now are holding themselves out as experts, and telling those that do believe in the Bible and actually have studied it, what the bible really means. Invariably they are wrong, but they are indeed entitled to their opinions.

Does not matter how much someone knows about the bible, the fact remains that any book is subject to interpretation and no one can say what is right and what is wrong, so anyone claiming to be an expert and also claiming to know what was meant by this or that, is also a bullsh*ter, because no one knows what is literally meant, because they are not meant to be taken literally, they are allegorical tales.

So the real fail falls on the laps of people that think the bible is anything more than a collection of passed down tales.
 Demigod1979
Joined: 12/4/2011
Msg: 29
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Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/6/2013 1:41:40 PM

Whether or not the Torah says that a mans blood will save us from our sins is irrelvant in the Christian tradition, so why are you mentioning that in the first place? I never said, nor suggested that a human being was ever sacrificed in the Jewish Temple, did I? What then is the relevance of that statement?

Jesus is supposed to be the Jewish messiah, the one whom the prophecy foretold. Therefore, what the Torah says is crucial to determining Jesus' messianic qualifications (after all, if Jesus was NOT the Jewish messiah then he was just another pagan god).


And, yes, according to Christian tradition, the reason for Jesus coming to earth was to supplant the jewish temple system. When Jesus was on the cross, and he said, " it is finished", at that time, the Temple shroud, which was very thick, was torn from top to bottom, something that could not have been done by man. When He said "it is finished", he meant his work on earth, and the Jewish Temple system, because they, his own people rejected him.

I think you're conflating two different accounts. It is in Matthew's gospel that the temple curtain was torn (and in which Jesus said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?") and in John's gospel where he said "It is finished" (the curtains aren't mentioned at all).
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