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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.      Home login  
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 elednuw
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 1
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
I think getting rid of the penny is assinine.I don't believe it costs 1.6 cents to make a penny.Now the gov't has to spend more to make more nickels which is bigger and heavier.Canada gov't,give your head a shake.
 pescando75
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 2
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 2:37:42 PM
Just the beginning of the end of cash as currency, and the mechanisms of control further tightening.
They can spin it any way they want. When the penny is deemed a "success," they'll keep going.
I see I can get a free "card reader" for my non-existent "smart phone" if I wanted it. No thanks.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 2:54:04 PM

I don't believe it costs 1.6 cents to make a penny


Okay, you make one. Have you ever seen them being made? It's not like making bottle caps, you know.

Thanks to Canada for trying this: we've had the idea rattling round down here for a long time. If it works up there, we might do it here as well, eventually. We've already reached the point here, where people keep "penny" trays at every register, just to balance the till, and most of us use them to get rid of the darn things. It isn't even worth it to banks anymore, to keep coin-counting machines around, except the few who have commercial vendors install pay devices in the lobby.

It might finally bring an end to some of the trick pricing vendors like to do, like saying something costs 299.97, just to make it SOUND so much cheaper than 300.
 Blah_User_Name
Joined: 8/27/2011
Msg: 4
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:09:02 PM
It's going to be interesting. Personally, I'm glad to see the back of them but then again, I was around in the UK when the halfpenny was made obsolete.

It will be interesting to see the quirks of how this will work. Businesses are allowed to round up or down but there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rules about a transaction ending in 6, 7, 8 or 9 cents being rounded up or those ending in 1, 2, 3 or 4 cents being rounded down which would be the obvious way - at least, not if I'm understanding it correctly. It seems a business will be able to decide for themselves so some transactions which logically would be rounded down, might now be rounded up.

I'm also curious as to if ALL transactions regardless of intended payment method will be rounded. What I mean by that is if paying by debit or credit card or paying a bill on-line, the odd cents don't matter unless it's a cash transaction. It's only the physical coin which has gone. So what will happen at the register? Will the teller ask how we are paying and then if we are paying with plastic in any guise, we pay the exact bill but if paying with cash, the company applies the rounding as it's deemed will be the policy?

And, (yeah, it's scary how my brain works sometimes) but if a company decides to always round up, they might be making up to 9 cents on some transactions. So a National company doing that all the time, that's a healthy boost to the profit margins really. Think about all the cups of coffee Tim Horton's sells a day. A large coffee is around $1.97 so will now be $2.00. That three cents on all those coffee's is a nice little sum.
 elednuw
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 5
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:24:58 PM
Lots of good points Inport from U.K.,apparently if your coffee at Timmys comes to $1.97,but they have to make it $2.00,they have to give you back 3 cents.I work in retail and thats how they'll be doing it.Lots of confusion.Makes no sense to me.Thers no rational reason to get rid of the penny.Even if they stopped issuing pennys,the existing pennys in circulation which is probably in the trillions would probably in circulation in our lifetime.Pennys just don't deteriote.I think theres only one other ountry that doesn't have the the penny.On a lighter side,all girls with the name "Penny" will have to change thier name to "Nickel" (l0l)
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 6
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:25:26 PM
Card transactions are not rounded up or down...still to the exact cent. And $1.97 would be rounded down to $1.95. $1.98 would be rounded up so it should work out roughly equally. You can't really plan your pricing around this to your benefit if you sell more than three items.
 sinistra
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 7
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:28:06 PM
You still have a 5c coin,so rounding is to nearest 5c-ie 1,2 down3,4 up6,7 down,8,9 up.
Here in Australia cents abolished years ago and dollar is similar value to US/Canadian
Cash payments are rounded,card payments are the actual amount.
Sorry Igor- doesn't stop prices being $1.99 !-after all if pay with plastic that's what you're charged....
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 8
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:44:49 PM
Truthfully, when I heard about the soon-to-be gone penny I was a bit happy, for my wallet.

That lasted until this past weekend when I was listening to Rex Murphy's 'Cross Country Check-Up' --a call in radio show on CBC (like NPR) and found myself becoming rather wistful for the era that was.

Pennies. Where many of us started to whet our appetite for moulah!
Whether you had 1 cent or 5 pennies, having them made you 'a customer' somewhere.

One of the guests, an editor for some Calgary publication started linking all the culture, lore and history around the penny that most of us from a certain age remember.

Here's some that I remember and some that she brought up....
A penny saved is a penny earned; in for a penny in for a pound; a penny for your thoughts; pinching pennies; without 2 pennies to rub together; penny ante; penny-wise pound foolish; penny pinchers; penny candy; penny drives; penny loafers; pretty penny...seeing how much is around the lowly penny, kind of makes me feel quite nostalgic.

Someone on there also spoke about the 'rounding up'....and those impacts. Then he mentioned the concept of 'rounding down' and how some other country did that initially when they decided to get rid of pennies from circulation.

I think that works better, otherwise it feels like there's that little bit being given away....and it's 'that' cumulatively---that 'little bit'....that little 'extra' that 'seemingly' inconsequential .02 or .01, that makes the 'cents' work their magic in someone else's bank account...It's easy to see the value in some of those sayings above.
----American Airlines saved $40,000 in 1987 by eliminating one (1) olive from each salad served in first-class.
 justagrlwithacat
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 9
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:52:03 PM


It might finally bring an end to some of the trick pricing vendors like to do, like saying something costs 299.97, just to make it SOUND so much cheaper than 300.


yaay


Sorry Igor- doesn't stop prices being $1.99


aww

But really, I was thinking what igor was saying too, but I realize there's no need to.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 10
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 3:55:13 PM
Good points about the roundings up and down, and how some greedy people might manipulate that to pad their own pockets.

On the other hand, I imagine this will really be a little like some other changes which have occurred, or which almost did. I'm thinking of the way that we here in the US should have converted to the metric system (but did not). Had we simply started selling everything by metric measurements instead of the old-style British way, everyone would have been confused for a few days, then we would have settled in, and normal competition would have weeded out the folks trying to use conversion confusion to enrich themselves.

In short, yeah, some folks will feel peeved because they will be paying a couple of dollars more per year for coffe or some such, and a few CEO's will award themselves huge bonuses for rooking the public out of those pennies. But they'll only really be able to imagine they carried off a brilliant theft for one short period, after which everyone will adjust mentally to what ever things cost, and the tensions will subside.

Want your government to deal with the penny thief moguls? Take a page from the US, and lobby for a "penny round up windfall tax." Any company who's profits leap after the shift, because they round everything up, pays a 95% extra-income penalty for their tricks.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 11
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 4:26:40 PM

I think getting rid of the penny is assinine.I don't believe it costs 1.6 cents to make a penny.Now the gov't has to spend more to make more nickels which is bigger and heavier.Canada gov't,give your head a shake.

Sorry if I missed it, but why is the government going to need to mint more nickels that it will not have to mint in pennies?

If even if there is a small increase, that will be offset by the saving in not minting the penny.

Which applies only to about 50% of Canadians who still pay with cash most of the time.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 12
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 5:32:11 PM
Back in the 3o's, a penny would buy as much as a quarter will today. Yet they managed with the penny being the smallest currency available.
Personally, I think we could get rid of the nickel too.
 Blah_User_Name
Joined: 8/27/2011
Msg: 13
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 5:37:49 PM

sinistra

You still have a 5c coin,so rounding is to nearest 5c-ie 1,2 down3,4 up6,7 down,8,9 up.
Yes, I had completely forgotten about the 5c coin.

omg!wtf!

And $1.97 would be rounded down to $1.95. $1.98 would be rounded up so it should work out roughly equally.
That would be the logical way to do it, I agree. But I don't think it's a given that it will work that way. It's my understanding that businesses will decide for themselves what their policy will be. So some business will round up $1.97 and some might round down although the Canadian Mint is recommending that rounding is done only in the logical manner, it is down the the individual businesses.

You can't really plan your pricing around this to your benefit if you sell more than three items.
No, I understand that. It was merely an observation that if a business decided to always round up, over the course of a year, that could equate to a substantial amount of money for the cash purchases, especially those coffee shops or small buys where people tend to pay in cash. Just an observation/thought, that was all.

sweetest

without 2 pennies to rub together;
Seems in a few years none us will have that. I wonder if those well known phrases will just get lost of if they'll continue to be common place.

Igor

Had we simply started selling everything by metric measurements instead of the old-style British way, everyone would have been confused for a few days, then we would have settled in, and normal competition would have weeded out the folks trying to use conversion confusion to enrich themselves.
Funny tale - The UK used to have pounds, shillings and pence. Don't ask me to explain it because I was only months old when they change to the decimalization system of 100 pennies in a pound. But my mother over heard an elderly lady complaining about the confusion and stating that the 'Bloody government could have waited until us old folk were dead before interfering'. I think it was in early 1971 but I might be slightly off.

Aristotle_Amadopolis

If even if there is a small increase, that will be offset by the saving in not minting the penny.
Agreed and most people don't use cash these days except for those little purchases. According to the Canadian Mint website, the estimated savings in eliminating the minting of new pennies will save $11 million a year.

Incidentally, you can buy a commemorative roll of 2012 pennies - Hurry while stocks last!

I wonder how many pennies were minted before today with 2013 on them or if they stopped minting them last year and didn't announce it or even minted those this year with the 2012 date stamp? Seems like the cost of creating a one penny face dated 2013 would have been a waste for the sake of about 5 weeks.
 five-marie
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 14
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 5:51:47 PM
I work for a major grocery chain. They have decided to round down, always. Today I bought a banana for 34 cents, I was charged 30 cents.
I cannot imagine my company continuing this practice, they are going to lose millions.
I think it's time to get rid of the penny and am glad we did. With the toonie/loonie we have way too many coins.
 fishguy1979
Joined: 2/1/2013
Msg: 15
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 6:09:32 PM
The U.S keeps 'talking' about dropping the penny as well to save $$ on minting costs. Coins last a long time. We all know that. I think they should just mint pennies every 5 or 7 years. As we need them.
 justagrlwithacat
Joined: 2/7/2011
Msg: 16
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 6:16:38 PM
@five-marie
maybe they should have skipped converting to the twoonie and just made the durable $2 bills, like the 5 and 20, back then....if the know how was even there.
 five-marie
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 17
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 6:22:11 PM
Maybe justagirl. All these coins are heavy. Not even sure if durability is why we went to coins?
 Padawan61
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 18
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 7:42:58 PM
OP ... I think you're just nostalgic for the penny coin. Only reason I can think of why you won't let it go.

Did you know that the plural of penny ... is pennies?? Not pennys.

the existing pennys in circulation which is probably in the trillions

There are about 20 billion pennies in circulation today.

http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/articles/canada/canadian-penny/2779

Since 1908, Canada has produced 35 billion pennies.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/03/30/f-penny-faq.html

This is a far cry from the trillions you thought were in existence.

all girls with the name "Penny" will have to change thier name to "Nickel"

Not really. Penny is short for Penelope. Girls named Penny can just use the long form of their name.
 tooborednow
Joined: 1/13/2013
Msg: 19
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 10:18:40 PM

Now the gov't has to spend more to make more nickels which is bigger and heavier.

No real reason they couldn't make change out of aluminum, except for maybe durability.
It's all just fiat currency anyway. It's not tied to precious metals.
It's not like you try and pay with change and they take out a chemistry set to make sure you're giving them the right metal.
If you want to play with inflation just have the government issue the chocolate filled coins you get at easter.
See what happens when the money supply is reduced because everyone is eating their nickels.


I think getting rid of the penny is assinine

Sounds like it would be easier than the U.S. government trying to get rid of the 1 dollar bill.
I remember doing a report in high school in 1993 about the U.S. government wanting to phase out the dollar bill by 1999.
They're still trying that.
One thing that was hilarious was people buying thousands of dollars worth of dollar coins from the mint with their credit cards, 1:1, free shipping, getting the rewards points and airline miles from their credit card issuer, depositing the coins in the bank, paying off their no fee credit card bills. People were getting millions of miles of free air travel.
Government stopped that though.
And at least it's only getting rid of the penny, rather than having to issue C$100,000,000 denomination bills.


The Canadian penny being eliminated

First yer guns! Now the brownshirts goin' door ta door SWAT style for yer pennies! What's next? Ya feelin' the socialist commie jackboots on yer neck yet?


Canada gov't,give your head a shake.

I still get mad when the people at the drive through give me a canadian quarter in my change and I don't realize it for a couple of days.
When I try to palm it off to pay for something no one ever takes it.
I think they have magic in them or something though because after a while they seem to just disappear.
 elednuw
Joined: 1/11/2011
Msg: 20
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/5/2013 11:19:42 PM
I think a lot of charities.donation boxes at the coffee shops and stores that are for good causes,penny school drives will suffer because donating pennies is cheap and not a big deal,but now thats gone up to 400% more.People will think twice about donating thier nickels.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 21
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The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/6/2013 5:32:05 AM
If the penny cost too much to make, is the metal that is the concern?
If so ... then alter it somehow and make it for a penny.


Actually, the US did that a long while back. Pennies still LOOK as though they are made of copper, but they aren't. If you mash one, you'll find some grey metal inside. I'm too lazy to look up when they changed, or what to, but it doesn't matter. The process of making pennies out of FREE metal would still cost too much.

We did also try many times to do away with paper dollars. The move to coins has failed every time, and it's not because we have a magic fascination for paper, it's because you can carry fifteen paper dollars in a wallet or your pocket with no problem, but even five bucks in coins starts to drag your trouser pockets down. When they tried making them small and light (the current delusion), they still didn't take off, because of the clunkiness of coins.

I actually tried to convert to coins myself, because I had fond memories of getting silver dollars as a kid. But as soon as my pocket filled up with brass dollars, I changed my mind. They don't fit into wallets, like paper dollars do, and no one makes a "change purse" for men that is either considered socially acceptable, or is any less of a pain to keep track of than a credit card. Very few guys are going to want to have to carry TWO money containers, or to switch to purses.
Basically, our entire culture adapted to paper money a looong time ago, and changing back to coin requires a TON of cultural and mechanical changes to be made, which would cost way more than would be saved.
I think we will eventually end up doing away with all small denominations. It's either that, or revalue the currency. No one's done that in eons, because THAT is too confusing, and causes other messes.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 22
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/6/2013 6:56:11 AM

Now the gov't has to spend more to make more nickels which is bigger and heavier.


Really? 5 Canadian pennies weigh less than 1 nickel?
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 23
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/6/2013 9:02:14 AM

Thanks to Canada for trying this: we've had the idea rattling round down here for a long time


but it hasn't happened for the usual reason in the US: there is a (surprise!) lobby group of copper producers & suppliers to the US Mint , numbering about 200 people that oppose elimination of the penny as it is profitable for them (but costs US taxpayers about US $ 100 million a year in excess costs)
 french_puffin
Joined: 1/13/2013
Msg: 24
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/7/2013 11:02:10 PM
as a cashier, I dont mind getting pennies, but am glad i dont have to return them, it makes giving back change so much easier
 plentyofgarbage
Joined: 1/13/2013
Msg: 25
The Canadian penny being eliminated,pros and cons.
Posted: 2/8/2013 12:08:12 AM
Don't worry, there will be a tax on that that should round it out for you at 350.00.
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