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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Does Religion cause Wars      Home login  
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 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 2
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History
Does Religion cause WarsPage 1 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Weeell, though there has been a LOT of times when wars have been attributed to religious beliefs, there have been far more times when basic greed was the the real cause, and religious fervor was the cover story.
 Blah_User_Name
Joined: 8/27/2011
Msg: 4
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 3:48:14 AM
Religions does not cause wars. People cause wars. People belonging to certain religions (and every religion has done this at one time or another) hide behind their religion as a justification for many atrocious acts, including the act of war.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 5
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:20:25 AM
I don't think religions started one war even. it's greed that creates war, exactly how igor said it, or the necessity of survival. Religions are only an ideology that can support war. You can't tell the soldiers, when you are a king or the President of the United States, "let's go kill them so *I* get their gold (or our oil companies get the rights to their crude oil reserves before china, europe or -- god forbid -- Africa). No. Instead, you tell them, "go there and kill them because they are evil, and they are evil because they believe in a different god." (Incidentally, how can god be different? there is only one, I keep hearing. So they worship him differently, it's not that the old geeser is any different from one worship to the next.)

The crusades were started at the time when India's riches of spices were in high demand. The Arab world was very inconveniently placed between europe and india. So the idea was to make them christian, to make a happy and easy way to get the spices over. And silk from China. This interregnum of the Muslims, the very same one, was the cause to send Christofo Columbo on his way west, to find the east.

So let's go, guys, say the crusade and oil-thirsty kings and presidents, they are muslims, let's get to convert them, get back Jerusalem to whom it rigthfully belongs, the Israeli Jews.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 6
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:22:44 AM
***********I think if there is a God and a Devil,then its the Devil who created religion because of the wars caused by it,let alone slaves to the so called holy book all living there lifes with Evil and Hate.************

I agree with you a hundred percent!! Except that I believe it's not devil that created religions, but man; humans, men and women, maybe children were involved in the creative process, too. But other than that, i can't agree more.
 DontAskMe2CarryUrPurse
Joined: 1/22/2013
Msg: 7
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:39:09 AM
Man is the devil.
 for4rums_loner_here
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 8
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:52:57 AM
"""""""""""""Man is the devil."""""""""""

Yeah... putrid old monkey jjjjiszzzm. If you don't believe Purse and me, then drink a glassful of it and you'll see.
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 9
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 6:03:56 AM
Sometimes war can be a good thing.

Sometimes it is a necessity, religion or no religion.

Does anyone know what motivated the individual countries that participated in WWI and WWII?

I don't think religion had much to do in either case.
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 10
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 8:15:39 AM
^^ Yet, the majority of the world's charity organisations, be it for local poor people in need or international aid, have their roots in some kind of religious affiliation.


I suppose you would argue that these charities also aim to proseltyze. True, i seen that happen with some orgs.. but same could be said about secular charities...especially when it comes to giving aid to a non western people, they try to infiltrate the 'education' and believe they are doing a service to the community by removing the inhabitants from there culture and religions.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 11
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 11:43:24 AM
CureCurious

when can war be a good thing?
how can killing innocent young men women children babies be good a thing?

I dont think religion causes war. People do....the higher powers in government office cause war and whoever financially benifits from war causes war.

How is it ever a good thing to destroy a country from war?
for a family to receive the remains of their son?
for a young person to come home without their legs?
I could go on...
so please can you explain why you wrote that sometimes war can be a good thing?
 Proteaus
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 13
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:09:16 PM
If you look at history ,organized religion is responsible for more atrocities and killing than almost any thing else . All for whatever god they worshiped .Entire cities and civilizations have been put to the so called sword in the name of religion . That's why I am really starting to believe that religion was the greatest form of control ever conceived .
 POFisLOL
Joined: 9/1/2012
Msg: 14
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:29:08 PM
Does religion cause wars?

Well...

Religion can cause wars if:
1. (There is more than one religion) AND
2. (At least 1 religion has different views(to another religion) AND the religious beliefs of this religion can promote war OR religious leaders can promote war) AND
3. (There are enough followers of (POINT 2) religion that firmly believe in the war-centric religious views OR follow a war-centric religious leader.)

This situation has occurred in the past(crusades). If all the conditions listed above are not met, then it is unlikely than Religion cause war.
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 15
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:32:12 PM
MELODYOF_K

-------------------------
when can war be a good thing?
how can killing innocent young men women children babies be good a thing?
-------------------

Err, NO! Killing nnocent non combatants, elderly, women, men, children, babies is not a good thing.


A war or battle may be necessary to bring about peace and justice. In situations where there is some kind of dictatorship going on, injustice, suffering, etc. I don't advocate war, but wars do have their uses. For example, I'm sure people would agree that Adolf Hitler and his army needed to be stopped. Telling Hitler, "Please, pretty please, be kind to your people" wouldntve worked.

Another thing to consider i guess is, the casualties or 'collateral damage' as they call it these days of traditional wars and battles wwas a lot less than today. Historically people fought with their fists, swords, spears, gun powder, etc. It was an on land expedition.... so it was between two combatant sides... the non combatants were mostly spared and not involved in the combat.

These days you have overhead bombs and missles that does not iscriminate its target... so, you have the combatant as well as the child and grandother nearby getting killed.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 16
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 5:09:19 PM
OK CureCurious...
I see your point which is correct to me because of the state of the world .

what I was talking about was war in general...had there been none.
thankyou for responding.
 J_bird61
Joined: 10/22/2011
Msg: 17
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 8:34:08 PM
Who's to blame?...........why the people, of course.
Why so much pain and suffering caused by people?
When a war is started by people (unless you're thinking God started it...) they attach meaning to it. A "reason why" we must go to war. People have gotten other people on board by attaching religion in the past. It's compelling to fight for what you believe.
When a nation commits to war for non-religious reasons (WWII) and it's young boys and men will go off to die, they attach religion to it for comfort and strength.
Religion does not = bad. It's how it's manipulated is where the problem lies. And it's manipulated by people.
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 18
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/6/2013 10:29:26 PM
Some of them want to use you
some of them want to abuse you
some of them want to be used by you
sweet drerams are made of these

That's applicable to religion, to ideologies, to life.. human nature.. the whole lot.
 RussArtLover
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 19
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History
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 12:26:46 AM
Cute :) That song always bothered me.

We might examine creating a new religion specifically designed to promote a warrior caste. Hmmm reference Nietzsche
 LennyPane
Joined: 2/2/2011
Msg: 20
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History
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 1:55:07 AM
Do you believe in the afterlife?
Termination with a rusty knife
Religious wars, no reason why
What a glorious way to die

In the name of god they left you to die
Religious wars, there's no reason why
They left you to die

The ultimate cause is here
Die for a cause, religion is fear
Fear of the threat of something unreal
Abdicate the way you really feel

In the darkness of death
There's no light in your eyes
A cross in your grave
Your time has arrived

Subhumans
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 21
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History
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 4:41:16 AM

If you look at history ,organized religion is responsible for more atrocities and killing than almost any thing else . All for whatever god they worshiped .Entire cities and civilizations have been put to the so called sword in the name of religion . That's why I am really starting to believe that religion was the greatest form of control ever conceived .


Pluses and minuses in those statements.

"Organized religion is responsible for more atrocities and killing than almost any thing else ." No, not at all. Speaking as an Historian here. Even the direct acts of persecution and murder that are carried out by religious authorities, in the given grounds that the people are heretics, is really always about secular control of the populace. If it was not, then the rest of the government would put a stop to it immediately.

Actually, the end statement "religion was the greatest form of control ever conceived," is more to the point. Religions are conceived of, and grow over time, mostly from the same desire of humans to understand and attempt to gain control over their existence, which they invented Science to do as well. Just as scientific advances are very often intended to make life better, but get used by rather nasty people to make life worse for some, so too religions are often used by the powerful and selfish members of a group, to give themselves power, or to excuse themselves from responsibility for the otherwise blatantly greed-based or revenge-based acts they commit.

The reason why religion is so often (mis)used by powerful people, to tread upon the lives of others, is very much because it CAN BE the greatest form of control one can utilize. The powerful people ascribe to themselves, the magical powers of the religion, the unquestionability of religious authority, AND they still shift ultimate responsibility for their actions, to unseen, and ultimately unknowable entities.

The problem is always, the nefarious, greedy, and self-righteous powerful people who USE science or religion against the rest of us. Not the science, or the religion itself.
 Just___Jim
Joined: 10/21/2012
Msg: 22
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 5:42:07 AM

A war or battle may be necessary to bring about peace and justice. In situations where there is some kind of dictatorship going on, injustice, suffering, etc. I don't advocate war, but wars do have their uses.


You have a point,as waring nations who threaten other nations,whether it be because of different ideologies,religious beliefs or other, someone must take a stand or show a deter int in those who seek to hurt others.

Yet,as I love this quote of those who wish to controls others,regardless of one's might they try to impose on others...


“Someday, the realm of liberty and justice will encompass the planet. Freedom is not just the birthright of the few, it is the God-given right of all His children, in every country. It won't come by conquest. It will come, because freedom is right and freedom works. It will come, because cooperation and good will among free people will carry the day.”

“Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.”
― Ronald Reagan
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 23
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History
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 8:38:20 AM
Religion can be the starting point for some wars, Especially for some of those people known today as evangelicals or fundamentalists.
But I agree with some of the other posters it is a means to unite a nation to go to war governments use religion as a cover story Every German soldier in WW 2 had a belt buckle with the inscription "god is with us". The S.S. on the other hand were finding there "old" religion through the ideas of Theodore list and madame Blavatsky a physic medium. Who taught that the enlightened race was the Aryans. Himmler the head of the S.S. used the runes found all over the world even the symbol of the SS was a rune and there god was Wotan. Hitler wanted to replace Christianity with this old religion but He was cunning for example...

The Fuehrer Oath (effective August 2, 1934)


"I swear by almighty God this sacred oath:
I will render unconditional obedience
to the Fuehrer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler,
Supreme Commander of the Wehrmacht,
and, as a brave soldier,
I will be ready at any time
to stake my life for this oath."

Notice it is a personal oath not to the German constitution or the people but to Hitler.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 24
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History
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 11:35:00 AM
Igor had IMO the right response. I'd just add that although more people have died in the Name of Jesus Christ than any other wars are almost always fought over resources.
 mark777771
Joined: 4/22/2012
Msg: 25
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History
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 6:16:04 PM
religion flys aiplanes into buildings......science flys man to the moon.
 robertaus
Joined: 1/26/2010
Msg: 26
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/7/2013 7:04:19 PM
Certainly does.


Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare


Encyclopedia of Wars.

But History tells us it is not the Primary cause as many anti-religious websites promote.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 27
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/8/2013 10:52:49 AM

The belief in God has never caused pain and suffering.

For the ones that believe that is correct, but for the millions that have been slaughtered because they did not believe or believed in a different invisible sky wizard, well that may have a completely different perspective.





Historically this is ABSOLUTELY FALSE....comically FALSE!

Yes, because the crusades where just a bunch of guys riding around spreading the good word with love and peace.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 28
Does Religion cause Wars
Posted: 2/8/2013 11:52:24 AM
true AA...
but that pain and suffering was and is caused by people.
some use the name of their God for doing attrocities.
doesnt mean its God doing it. it is mans excuse.
how can those people who do those things even claim to believe in God..
they must re write their own books to include that GOd told them to do it.
People are just plain self centered and evil.
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