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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit      Home login  
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 Luthion
Joined: 12/1/2008
Msg: 5
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Don`t Hurt The Bunny WabbitPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
A lot of animal characteristics are certainly anthropomorphized, this is undoubtedly true, but nowhere near as severely as you might think.

It is a scientifically documented fact that animals are capable of feeling pain, grieving, and forming loving and bonding connections with other creatures... and even animosities.

Recent science has also come to the acceptance that animals are not in fact "dumb", and that the vast majority of them (especially mammals, of which we conveniently happen to also be) are fully aware of their existence and their surroundings. They are capable of developing their own preferences, tastes, and unique wants and desire, completely unrelated to natural instinct.

This doesn't mean that they can think at the same level as humans, obviously. An animal is still incapable of abstract thought, or the ability to ask a question. It may understand that something *does* work (as seen in basic animal training), but it will never be capable of understanding *why*.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 6
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/8/2013 12:29:35 PM
Animals feel pain and do have emotions.
But not like us.
As their emotions are more pure.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 7
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Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/8/2013 3:22:26 PM
Sharks do NOT feel pain, they don't have pain receptors in their brain. They don't feel it when they get trashed in a feeding frenzy either, so get out of their way if they are eating, your fighting them off won't hurt them.

Other animals do, some take it better than others, some feel it more.

as for "nice" feelings...devotion is common, love is a human idea.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 8
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/8/2013 3:46:02 PM
We invent virus's in my country, to inflict a horrible slow painful death on the bunny rabbit, because the bunny rabbit is doing the exact same thing to the eco system here and many native specie..but then we shouldn't of removed the dingo so farming sheep was easier, should we? because thats when the rabbit population exploded..

we still poison dingoes, leave out baits, so they die a horrible death , so sheep can die a horrible death in a slaughter house or sometimes a cargo ship or cattle truck and bankers make money from it...
 J_bird61
Joined: 10/22/2011
Msg: 9
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/8/2013 5:43:16 PM
They're still trying to figure out how to measure/find/identify, feelings/emotions.

Don't ya also wonder if some people out there are missing a few as well?
 Albvs
Joined: 2/14/2013
Msg: 10
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/9/2013 11:52:10 AM
Most animals (humans included since we're animals) feel pain.

A shark will stop attacking you if you punch it on the nose. You could make all kinds of claims about fish, shellfish and sharks not being able to feel pain but the reality is that they'll avoid pain-causing situations normally (but won't if they've been given morphine, for example).
 RussArtLover
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 11
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Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/9/2013 4:34:55 PM
or Hungry.

I think animals just can not pay attention very long so they lose interest in communicating they're feelings. I guess one simple rule would be the smaller they are the less. You could argue that lizards and mice/rats can think long and hard about things but they can't. They just go into a trance-like state as a sort of "invisibility" to bigger animals that might prey on them. Thing is, every living thing has a measurable IQ. and EQ, emotional quotient. So if you want to feel a teeny bit of guilt about torturing some cat when you were 8 years old go for it. You were a little sht and got away with it :)
 Albvs
Joined: 2/14/2013
Msg: 12
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/9/2013 6:58:16 PM
“These creatures you call mice, you see, they are not quite as they appear. They are merely the protrusion into our dimension of vastly hyperintelligent pandimensional beings.”
~ Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 13
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/9/2013 7:32:15 PM
YES absolutely!!!

If you have a pet, and ever been to a vet, you'd see that they even have anti depressants for animals. They even cry, and tears fall from their eyes.

But since they are limited in expressing it, they shut down.

Like cats for example, when they are in pain, or feel they are about to die or unwell, they will run away from home and hide somewhere until they find a secret place to die. It's sad. I strictly told my cat not to do that to me. :S

But i think as they hang around with humans, and get influenced by our animated personalities, they somehow learn to mimic us... and speak with us... i know my cat initially was pretty grumpy with me... but as years progressed, she trusts me more and when i call her name she stops and knows i am going to give her a pat and lifts her head up to show me the bits she wants masaged, lol. When you scold an animal, they know ....

My cat knows who in the family likes her... she runs away from those people who don't like cats, even tho they never hit her or anything... but she approaches those people who greet her smilingly...
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/10/2013 8:22:51 AM
All life has emotion, and intelligence.

If you don't immediately recognize this, you're just trying to equate it too much with human intelligence and emotion, and/or you don't understand what emotion and intelligence is.
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 15
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/10/2013 9:09:12 AM
^^ ometime animals' degree of compassion, care, love, surpasses that of some humans.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 17
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/10/2013 6:09:33 PM

These creatures you call mice, you see, they are not quite as they appear. They are merely the protrusion into our dimension of vastly hyperintelligent pandimensional beings.”
~ Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


Bullshit....what drugs was he on? obviously not mine.

look at all animals that move in large groups and breed like fu#k? why do they breed like fu*k? ever thought about that?

Maybe because they are really dumb and have evolved the best way they can to avoid being wiped for doing dumb things (like congregating in small areas makin it easier for there prey to locate them as well as eating themselves out of house and home) and breeding as fast as they can?

actually if you didn't know i was talking about mice or rabbitts or sheep or salmon? you might mistake me for talking about humans?
 martinswain
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 18
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/10/2013 10:29:42 PM
IMO the answer to your question lies in understanding evolution. I can't explain that in a forum post, I had to study Earth Science at university and then spend a few years in discussion with a lot of very bright people before I could even start to grasp it. Since my abilities as a writer are limited, I don't think it's a worthwhile endeavor to attempt to convey that in a few brief sentences.

So, the short answer is, yes. Since you are a mammal, and you have a mammalian brain which has evolved in basically the same way as all the other mammals, it probably operates basically the same way, and by basically I mean in terms of motivating factors like fear, sex, pleasure, and pain, and emotional factors like curiosity, love, desire, and so on.

What's different would be things that are particular to humans like culture, language, art and so on. But the basics would all be the same, or so I would think. Now the other animals like reptiles, birds and fish, who knows. But we all know what it's like to be a mammal.

Don't go thinking I'm speaking for all scientists though. Stupidity is a universal human trait and I've known a lot of scientists who weren't much smarter than their lab equipment. Sounds odd but that's my experience.

Cheers dude
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 21
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/11/2013 2:20:01 AM

^^ Spoken like a pet owner and not a hunter/gatherer.


I've raised 27 cats since 2008 :)
 LennyPane
Joined: 2/2/2011
Msg: 22
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Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/11/2013 2:48:07 AM
Animals act solely on their instincts. It's us humans who make everything so damn complicated.

My baby pitbull sleeps in my bed, and atleast once every night she wakes me up to make sure I'm still there. My roommate tells me she cries when I'm not around. She has seperation axiety. She definitely feels pain.
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/11/2013 2:48:14 PM
^ makes me think of my dog I had once. Had a couple cats too (at different times). The "pets" I've had happened to be among the best souls I've known.

An odd-job I had once was at a pet resort (kennel), and my job all day long was to take the animals individually for their 10 (or so) minute "playtimes" out of their little cages into a yard area. Best damn job there. I definately got stories. I realized my suspected aptitude at being practically a dog or cat whisperer, hehe - I hesitate to tell the core of my experience there, because it sounds like something that's about me, but it's not, and with it I really always want to make another point...with no previous experience or training at all, I did things the other trained and experienced people couldn't, and I never got bit, while someone else did while I was there. But to really tell what that means, what I intend, I'd have to tell some of my stories...to make a point of how to understand and respect and communicate with the animal. That's what anything I always wanted to say about my experience there is all about. But to tell any of those stories would require much more typing, and I don't feel like it. But so anyway...it was a job I'll always remember. My calves got one hell of a work-out too.
 ForumFiona
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 24
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/11/2013 10:21:10 PM

my cat just had kittens........I was there to help....since she is still young and her first litter.........I assure you she felt the pain.......I tried to stay calm for her but couldn't help but cry to see the pain she was going thru......without any meds......after it was over...to this day she has shown me the love and gratitude.
Many people should take note as to the mothering of animals.....specially cats........I have much respect for them. .. I could go on and on......about sorry people verses animals.............but I'll stop while I'm ahead.

O goody, just what our world needs - more backyard breeders and animals for our shelters!
Yes, please stop while you are (not) ahead.
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 25
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/11/2013 11:27:47 PM
^^ Sorry but backyard breeding is the natural way. What is unnatural is the purebred breeders who imbreed their breed of cat or dog who end up having more genetic and breed specific abnomalies or health problems etc.

I allowed my female cat to give birth at least once, so she can experience motherhood. I then had her *tied up*.


I do see value in neuturing pets. They are cleaner, less risk of running away to find a mate etc, more homebody-like, just how we would want them. But I'm also against stiflin an animal growing into its full potential adulthood. Making them essentially child like.

my cat was a stray kitten who was lost walking in the midle of the road of someone's house. That person gave the kitten to me and yeah, she was bottlefed. She ended up being a grumpy kitten but also one to always 'knead' with her front paws... something kittens do with their mother when suckling milk... After giving birth though, she became calmer - then we had the surgery, which mae her even calmer.
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/12/2013 12:58:01 AM
Well...it is sad how the wild animal population has been cut down so far, yet humans have so many "pets" that it's ridiculous, and the stray homeless cat and dog situation is practically a tragic plague. I personally would prefer to not have any pets but be able to know that the wild animal presence and ecosystem is more like it used to be. I'm obviously guilty of having had some pets, but in most cases it was an animal that I inherited from someone else who didn't want it or couldn't keep it, or it was when I didn't know any better/didn't feel like I do now about it - I "like animals" but not in the way that I want to make one be my pet...instead I'd rather appreciate them as a wild creature.
 Luthion
Joined: 12/1/2008
Msg: 27
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Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/12/2013 4:50:30 AM

Animals act solely on their instincts. It's us humans who make everything so damn complicated.


False. Proven with empirical evidence to not be true.

Obviously it depends on the animals in question, but many (especially mammals) have at least a rudimentary capacity for empathy, as well as being capable of building emotional connections (within and outside of their own species), having curiosity, developing personal preferences, doing things solely for fun, feeling pain, and being aware of their mortality.

The only real definable difference about humans is our capacity for abstract thinking and communications. Beyond that, we're just as instinct driven as any other species on the planet.
 Luthion
Joined: 12/1/2008
Msg: 28
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Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/12/2013 7:17:20 AM
While I don't personally agree with Annie's attitude, lets please not turn this into a religious debate. The numerous people on the side of animals in this debate (including myself and CureCurious) are of many different faiths.
 Luthion
Joined: 12/1/2008
Msg: 29
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Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/12/2013 7:29:41 AM
But it isn't a fact. Many of us supporting animals in this thread are of a religious inclination.
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 30
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/12/2013 8:13:19 AM
hmm, I am a theist (Muslim) and as stated before I cared for 27 cats in the past 4-5 years. I have 6 kittens almost 6 weeks old I will be giving away for free soon to good homes.

In the past, I've had 4 hens, 2 roosters, 1 duck, 13 fish, 1 dog... so, being 'religious' doesn't make one dislike animals.


The problem is not cats and dogs breeding. It's humans who domesticated them... feed and look after them live a long life etc. In reality, although cats and dogs may give birth to a litter of 6, maybe half of them even end up surviving. I'm probably doing a 'bad' thing' by ensuring the kittens i have in my care are indoors and protected... my older cat has tried to strangle them when they were out and unsupervised... not in a violent way.. but i guess in a playful way... still, it could've killed them...
 CureCurious
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 31
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/12/2013 8:35:01 AM
And likewise, the mother of the kittens literally came to my door. Would be there in the drive way to greet, slither around my legs... purr.... gave it food a few times.. didnt know it was pregnant... then it decided to stay, and it got unusually fat really fast... i was like uh oh... and it gave birth... ta da.
Don`t Hurt The Bunny Wabbit
Posted: 3/12/2013 2:59:28 PM
One time a stray chicken started staying in my front yard. In the middle of the city. Was a decently sized yard, with trees and shrubs etc. Was kind of an odd kind of animal to be stray and decide to take up residence in my yard, I thought. He'd just wander around, looking for bugs or whatever, sleep up in a tree. Anyone who says that chickens just ***a-doodle-doo in the morning doesn't know what they're talking about. (wonder if POF is gonna censor the blank-a-doodle-doo.) At odd times, I'd sit on my porch, and he'd walk around, stop at some spot, and crow to the world. Then wander to another spot, and crow again. Then another spot, and another crow. Poor thing must've been wondering where his sweety-pie was.

I had a gate at the front of my drive. I'd see this chicken flap and hop over the fence or gate at will. So it was freaking hilarious, and mysterious, when he'd start running back and forth, over and over, across the drive right in front of the gate (inside the yard). Every now and then I'd catch him doing this. Made no sense. He'd just run, really run,back and forth, back and forth in front of the gate. What the hell was he doing?
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