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 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 1
Pick on someone your own size turkey!Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-20/police-asked-to-investigate-turkey-cruelty/4585350


he footage was secretly filmed over two weeks in an area of the Tahmoor abattoir where workers take the birds from cages and place them into shackles to be stunned and slaughtered.

"I think this is definitely some of the worst that we've [ever] seen," Animal Liberation's Emma Hurst said.

Workers can been seen kicking the birds, sometimes up to nine times.

Other birds are punched, bashed against walls or the cages and stomped on until they are still.

Sometimes co-workers kick or hit the same bird as it moves along the production line.

It appears to be common behaviour. Sometimes the workers appear to celebrate while those who see what is happening fail to intervene.

One worker even appears to try and separate a bird's head from its body by stretching and slotting it in the edge of a cage while it is attached to the moving production line.


The Indonesian abottoir workers say HI!
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 2
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/20/2013 5:39:20 PM
spot on..

Messages this short may not be posted
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 3
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/20/2013 9:52:46 PM
The motive is clear. People who make their living killing chooks in an abottoir aren't educated nor are they the pillars of success in the community. By abusing something more helpless than themselves, they feel more empowered as they are no longer at the bottom rung of the social ladder. The chook is.

You see this in every organization. The captain kicks the first mate, the first mate kicks the cabin boy, the cabin boy kicks the cat.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 4
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 12:09:57 AM

Boycott meat

Totally agree.
When you combine the inherent cruelty involved in the production of animal products with all the other issues.....such as scientists believing we are only a matter of a few years away from a serious pandemic of antibiotic resistant infections, caused in large part by the obscene amount of antibiotics we pump into our food animals......why on earth would you eat it?
Kind of makes "It tastes good" seem pretty f*cking lame if you ask me.
 Paul9473
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 5
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 1:29:10 AM

People who make their living killing chooks in an abottoir aren't educated nor are they the pillars of success in the community

Actually I would normally say it is the uneducated that are the pillars of the community; successful or otherwise. If all the professors, scientists, lawyers etc. were to die off in a selective case of avarian flu then society would role on just the same. It's largely the garbos, farmers, grocers etc. that make society function. They may not be considered the cream of the crop but at least they're mostly harmless. What's the quote, ``Kill a person,... no I'm a scientist, we only kill continents, countries - sometimes a convention - but a person,... never''. Anyway, it's painful to see any such outlet of cruelty, especially when it is intentional and hits close to home.
I don't think the abuse stems from a need to feel empowered but, rather, in having an unpleasant job, constantly dealing with death (not to mention perpetually exuding a romance killing smell that no amount of showering and scrubbing can cure), the worker will trivialise the death around him/her and make a game of it. That's not a problem - it's necessary - it's just how it plays out that can be the problem and once you open the door on the more unpleasant aspects it can be like Pandora's box. Unfortunately though the average digger sent overseas is given a lot of psychological support (and they sure need it) an abattoir worker's not going to get much support/accountability from his/her work environment.

Hmm... I guess having this occurring domestically does make the ban live-exports argument a bit shaky.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 6
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 2:42:20 AM

scientists believing we are only a matter of a few years away from a serious pandemic of antibiotic resistant infections, caused in large part by the obscene amount of antibiotics we pump into our food animals.


isn't there one now hitting a melbourne hospital?

probably be best then to use garlic ,lemons,carrots, tomatoes, eggs.onion , ginger, echinacea and oranges if your have an infection?
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 7
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 2:56:23 AM

Hmm... I guess having this occurring domestically does make the ban live-exports argument a bit shaky

Why???...Does one episode of cruelty cancel out another? Both need to be addressed and discontinued.


isn't there one now hitting a melbourne hospital?

I don't think it is quite a pandemic...the event scientists predict is coming soon is being likened to the Bubonic plague.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 8
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 2:57:04 AM
vegans are at equal health risk from the obscene amounts of leeched and added pesticides in the soil, and on leafage broccoli, strawberries and grapes have the highest amounts..
the average and common family cannot afford exclusive organic, most balcony gardens will not sustain a family either..
striving to make ethical choices is good but also difficult, not everyone has extremely high paying careers or the means to acheive it
 Paul9473
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 9
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 3:27:49 AM

Does one episode of cruelty cancel out another

Not cancel out no, but we can't exactly go pointing the finger offshore when we haven't got our act together first.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 10
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 4:32:47 AM

vegans are at equal health risk

If you truly believe this some stats would be good.... Sorry, but I personally don't believe that at present.


the average and common family cannot afford exclusive organic

So buy and eat less.........it's a fact that we are an obese nation and growing...it's not gonna hurt us to consume less.


striving to make ethical choices is good but also difficult

I don't find making ethical buying choices difficult when it's for the benefit of my kids and future grandkids actually.


not everyone has extremely high paying careers or the means to acheive it

I don't either...but I manage and im a bad impulse spender lol.

But getting back to the actual thread........making any type of excuse for this sort of behaviour is disgraceful and if you consume the product you need to man up and accept that you are condoning the actions . As a previous poster said boycotting is the way to show it's not acceptable.....only hitting big companies in the hip pocket works.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 11
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 3:34:30 PM
i drive a100'ks up the road and hit up a kangaroo abattoir, once or twice a month...

I actually save alot of money doing this, get the healthiest protein i could ever get, anywhere in the world other than say eating polar bear from Antarctica..

I'm also giving my money directly to local people,. The kangaroos are shot locally, a few nights before my purchase day, sometimes the nite before..shot by shooters who are in a low socia economic climate..
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 12
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 7:38:46 PM
ignorance and denial will not stop bad stuff happening to our food.
Preventable illness is on the rise. due to the same attitudes.

I havent had a holiday in 20 years , but at least our whole family eat really well. I will drive 2 hours for raw milk, or a spray free farm. support ethical foodstuffs.
going vegan will not solve the cheap shortcuts made to feed the nations cheaply
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 13
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 7:46:03 PM
I always thought vegan in a western country, is a luxury.

pretty big carbon footprint if you rely on shopping for your diet, probably really really big wastage issues as well
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 14
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 7:49:29 PM
oh food packaging wastage .... another big problem. i saw some little cakes wrapped in paper and cardboard and plastic.. then in a larger plastic sleeve and finally the presentation.. arrgh
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 15
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 7:54:12 PM
Yes, there is that , which is a really big issue. but i was meaning the veggy and fruit sections where some really really good food, doesn't make the cut for a little spot or something..


then there's if it doesn't sell...which is quite common...with food so expensive, people having to buy fast food crap because they cant afford fresh food or even going without, wastage like that is almost a form of genocide..
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 16
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 11:10:51 PM
going vegan will not solve the cheap shortcuts made to feed the nations cheaply

But isn't that what big corportations depend on?.....everyone thinking they can't change things. Lots of little voices eventually make a big one.........apathy is what prevents change.

I will drive 2 hours for raw milk, or a spray free farm. support ethical foodstuffs.

There is very little ethical about the dairy industry...in many ways it's even worse then the meat industry because the people involved are so careful to hide the blatent cruelty involved in producing a product we simply don't need. Humans are the only species that consume milk and dairy after infancy............and with so many non dairy substitutes easily available there really is no excuse for supporting such cruelty.

with food so expensive, people having to buy fast food crap because they cant afford fresh food or even going without

I don't agree with that ........fresh home cooking is far cheaper then even the cheapest fast food if you are careful and buy and cook in bulk.......laziness is the reason whole families are becoming big, fat fast food junkies.
 Paul9473
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 17
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/21/2013 11:37:28 PM

healthiest protein... other than say eating polar bear from Antarctica.

Maybe, but it sure would be tough eating it after losing all its fat and muscle weight on that swim ;)
Markets of scale often are good for fresh produce. The bigger and more populated the market the quicker stuff gets bought up and the less preservatives are needed. Can always remember the markets in China, the soil on the veges was still moist from being picked that morning, shame about the herb/pesticides. Fortunately Australia's making a move towards natural predation.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 18
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 12:59:49 AM
Not everyone has your skills though hilly, or temperament or are surrounded by like minded people, who facilitate your knowledge and growth, or the ability to develop new skills. Skills that aint taught anymore.. until we get the life be in it Norm back on tv instead of news reports of the new wonder drug or dna strand that is hoped to make you lose weight, in between mcdonalds adds..its only going to get worse.

I think with alot, poor eating is an educational thing as well as laziness. I'm still lazy, but I've learnt to eat right.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 19
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 1:43:46 AM
the farmers are the ones who suffer from the dairy industry. again I drive to hours to get milk from a cow who I know is loved and cared for...
fast food is killing poeple... and contributing to the mass cruelty to chicken and other animals.

organic costs more.. but it is going down.. there are still farmers around who sell what they grow..city folk do not have a lot of chance to go to a vendor for home grown produce , but peoples voices are making a difference, even big chain supermarkets are listening and providing more slightly humane choices...
I budget for the extra costs for australian/ or ethical or organic, but I still think for many the very real need for shortcuts in food due to busy work/ family.
one of the advantages of being a stay at home mum, means I have a lot of chances to make home made stuff and save on the general budget.. and prepare quality foodstuffs/ cleaners/ green and eco options and other things for my family.. the flip side is, only working part time means I can't go an live a lavish lifetsyle... there is more financial freedom in working, but not everyone is the same, we all have different skills, ability's drives, focus and intelligence....and health. Apparently being born chromasonally challenged is a taboo and you are to bow and scrape and beg the workers for forgiveness if you collect disablity for anything that is not accident related... but I digress
Choices is the big one. everyone has basic choice making ability.
The knowledge is out there, the awareness for many issues...and usually people should be knowing junk food contributes to poor health in later life... junk food also = extra animal cruelty.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 20
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History
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 4:02:26 AM

Actually I would normally say it is the uneducated that are the pillars of the community; successful or otherwise. If all the professors, scientists, lawyers etc. were to die off in a selective case of avarian flu then society would role on just the same. It's largely the garbos, farmers, grocers etc. that make society function. They may not be considered the cream of the crop but at least they're mostly harmless. What's the quote, ``Kill a person,... no I'm a scientist, we only kill continents, countries - sometimes a convention - but a person,... never''.


Paul, you seem to be confusing 'immediate and tangible productivity' with 'total usefulness to society', and possibly also confusing 'the moral validity of a profession' with 'deficient individuals or institutional processes'. If you're serious about this as some kind of Khmer Rouge-style anti-intellectualism, start another thread where we can have an intellectual debate on the merit (or otherwise) of intellectual professions, without derailing this thread.


On topic:
A decade ago I used to eat pretty much anything. I've had a gradual evolution as I've learned more about the poor treatment of animals, environmental problems with animal wifery, and also what makes for a healthy diet. Now I don't eat junkfood, don't eat any animals except some fish, and I'm still consuming dairy. So still room for improvement.

To people who do eat meat but are concerned about it, I'd suggest starting with a reduction in the frequency and portion sizes to get started with. That's what I did. It is easy enough to go from eating a lot of meat most days to a smaller amount some days - much easier than going to absolutely no meat at all. If everyone halved their consumption, that would halve the number of animals killed overnight without hitting the barrier to action caused by thinking you have to give it up totally to make a difference.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 21
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 5:10:17 AM

I drive to hours to get milk from a cow who I know is loved and cared for...

You can't be serious right???
Do you honestly believe that??
Where do you think the one calf a year is, that keeps that happy cow producing happy milk for you???
If its lucky its dead......if its unlucky, its in a veal crate and then its dead!!
Cows are hugely maternal animals and will cry for weeks for their calves that have been sent to slaughter at only a few days old.
Google 'Bobby calves' and see the real dark side of our milk glugging habit.
This IS the reality that the dairys don't want you to know about.....its ignorance that keeps allowing them to behave like this.

If everyone halved their consumption, that would halve the number of animals killed overnight without hitting the barrier to action caused by thinking you have to give it up totally to make a difference.

So easy hey??...but total goes against most peoples Consume,consume,consume philosophy.

Apparently being born chromasonally challenged is a taboo

Hardly worth commenting on....but shoulder chips are mighty unattractive.
 Paul9473
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 22
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 5:33:48 AM

Khmer Rouge

oo that's a little harsh. Rest assured that any anti-intellectualism is largely self-directed. Anyway it isn't relevant as you said. No derailing has occurred; it was a mere opening paragraph (like this one I guess), a bit tangential but back on track (I had hoped) with the rest of the post.

I agree entirely about meat portion reduction. Definitely makes for a healthier diet for one. Personally; however (and I hope it's not sidetracking), I find the motivating issue not so much poor treatment of animals, but rather the human aspect - that such a large portion of the worlds grain production (that could alleviate poverty if distributed properly) is used as fodder to produce tastier and juicier steaks. mmmm... sorry, that was hard to say without thinking of steak...
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 23
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 5:45:52 AM
So Hilly, are you telling me, that i know nothing about the dairy industry when my dad was born and raised on a dairy farm? And you are also telling me when I go to my grandmothers to get milk, the 5 cows she still have, are mistreated unless I am there?
I worked on a small farm and we worked extremely hard on spray free crops. 4 of us worked very hard.. I no longer live or work there but I travel to get good food from good sources..
I cannot save the world, but half arsed judgement are up there with a chip, its intolerance that creates chips in the first place.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 24
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History
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 6:18:55 AM

oo that's a little harsh.


My apologies. But you definitely deserved it for the scientists = genocidal remark
The request for a new thread was not a rebuke for the digression, simply an acknowledgement that pursuing it would have entailed a lengthy discussion unrelated to the topic of this thread. I'll be happy to defend the blood-sucking lawyer profession anytime if you change your mind.

The point about the resources required to produce meat compared to grain is a good one. There are lots of sensible arguments to cut back on meat, not just the overtly emotional ethical argument. I actually started reducing my meat consumption after reading the Garnaut report, becuase of the greenhouse gas emissions required for meat production. When I was unemployed for a while after leaving uni, money was tight and it made even more sense to cut down on meat. It was only once I'd already started the process that the ethical issue became apparent, once I'd realised that it really was a choice I was making that I didn't have to.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 25
Pick on someone your own size turkey!
Posted: 3/22/2013 6:53:50 AM

are you telling me, that i know nothing about the dairy industry when my dad was born and raised on a dairy farm

My Dad was a chef....I know jack sh1t about cooking....go figure.
I haven't looked at your profile but im guessing your Dad is in his 70s-80s........farming back then was as it should be.......today it's just bulk, factory production and f*ck the animals.......


are also telling me when I go to my grandmothers to get milk, the 5 cows she still have, are mistreated unless I am there?

One wonders where the 5 calves are though............
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