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 ryuoki
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 1
How valued are men?Page 1 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
http://youtu.be/vp8tToFv-bA

Watch it and then offer your opinions. Seems this was the most valid section to post this discussion.

1) Even genetically men are obsolete currently. To make a new human an egg has 23 chromosomes and a sperm has 23 chromosomes each carrying their own genetic information. To clone you only need remove a healthy nucleus from any cell and dispose of the 23 in any womans egg and it will begin a new life. So why do we need men as a society if you can just take 2 womens eggs and place the 23 chromosomes from one into the other and let it gestate into another female that will then be viable to prolong the female human species all together bypassing the male component?

2) What exactly is our purpose after having watched this video and knowing where we are scientifically?

3) On PoF the apparent populations put men vastly higher than women to the point that it feels like china here. Why are you ladies still on the site? With so many men available why can you not find someone suitable?

4) Why do you ladies feel men have an easier lot in life over all when you get all the decisions for near every choice presented?

Any other questions someone has concerns about on this topic that I cannot think of at 10:30pm (it's late, I'm tired)
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 2
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/2/2013 8:31:27 PM
Obsolete?

Why?

Women want d i ck as much as men want sex.

They just hide it better.
 wherever_may_go
Joined: 3/25/2013
Msg: 3
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/2/2013 9:28:10 PM
For the purpose of God and to build his Kingdom. God knew us all by name before we were even born and he called upon us as his children. We are all equally his children and in his eyes we are loved by Him, the Heavenly Father.

Prayers and Blessings.
 MrMeSir
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 4
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/2/2013 9:44:37 PM
there has been an anti man campaign raging in the world for many years, respecting men is not on the forefront of the female agenda. lots of men too see nothing wrong with attacking other men, simply to make themselves look better in the eyes of society.

This is changing and will change, give it time, people are not filed with hate, just susceptible to propaganda.
 MrMeSir
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 5
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/2/2013 10:12:00 PM
4) I guess for the same reason men think that women have it easy. The grass is always greener. We dont have it easy, nor do you.


this is a convient excuse to remain ignorant, it's not a reality. Men and women are treated very differently by society, and told to be treated differently. In my country it is "illegal" to judge a person based soley on sex for employment, i am a male, and i have been rejected from several jobs for being a male, flat out told that they are looking for a female, even when the majority of their employees were female. I contacted the labour board here in canada, and they told me to contact human rights, i did so and they gave me tons of forms to fill out, they offered no help at all, and i have no time to waste standing up for my rights when i need a job.

I imagine if this happened to women it would be quite easy to find protection under the law.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/jan/22/discriminationatwork.workandcareers
 raxarsr
Joined: 7/10/2008
Msg: 6
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How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 1:40:47 AM
but who would kill spiders and open jars?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 7
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How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 2:35:04 AM
I'm with outmind, and not concerned about this. It's silly nonsense.

1. The males who are panicked or outraged about "women's lib" being anti-male, are being suckered by the most ignorant portion of the media, and by the other males who don't understand anything about it. Basically, being "anti-male-insanity" is not the same as being "anti-male."

2. There used to be something called "the Silly Season" in the world of news reporting and journalism. It was a wry name that journalists gave to the sorts of reports that they had to come up with when there wasn't anything exciting to talk about. "Silly Season" happens all the time nowadays, because with so many media outlets, someone everywhere has to fill pages with ANYTHING.

3. Another common journalistic phenomenon, is "wig-out about stuff the writer doesn't understand." It's EXTREMELY common when a non-scientist, non-Historian, Journalism-major-only gets a hold of a very complicated story like this one. The reporter gets caught up in imagining all sorts of extremely negative consequences resulting from the new whatever they just stumbled across (and really don't understand), and they predict all manner of tremendous changes, because predicting Big Things Afoot makes a journalist feel 'relevant.'
This is where the "we'll all be replaced by robot replicas" as well as THIS particular gem comes from.

4. There have ALWAYS seemed to be more men than women "on the prowl." This has more to do with culture and sociology than with facts. Men are more likely to "prowl" openly than women. Simple as that.

5. EVERYONE thinks EVERYONE ELSE has "an easier time of it" at one point or another in their lives, when they are feeling lonely and put upon. I too used to think that women had things waaaay easier in the mating department, simply because I thought all they had to do was wait for the offers to roll in, whereas I had to be the one to risk embarrassing myself by being the initiator every time. It took actual effort on my part to develop a more realistic understanding of human dynamics.

Bottom line, the "story" that generated this thread is overblown silliness.
 pinklemonaide5
Joined: 7/30/2012
Msg: 8
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 3:01:17 AM
Silly post. There are a lot of wonderful quality men and women.
 MrMeSir
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 9
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 5:10:40 AM
Women have fought against this for ever. Even today we are told we have equal rights, equal pay, and everything is equal. The reality is, we dont, especially once children arrive. How many women have to chose between a career and having children, how many men actually have to chose, they get both. We have it more now than ever but it is still not equal, men still dominate the higher paid jobs. Women still have to fight to get equal pay for doing the same job as a man. As for having to fight for it, many women literally had to put their life on the line, go to prison and demonstrate by chaining themselves to railings in order to obtain what we now call equality and is in fact nearly equality.


Really? by who exactly are you told this by?

men get both children and a career? Women don't? please explain this invention that simply doesn't exist.

Men dominate the higher paying jobs? oh noes, have you ever thought to consider that those top jobs are extremely far and few in between? That most men do not have top paying jobs, no one does? As for equal pay, show me where this is taking place, because you cn't, again it's fabricated. where's your evidence? the same sources that tell you you have equal everything everyday?

Because women in the pst had to fight with their lives for rights, now i have? thats your raational excuse?


please don't.
 MrMeSir
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 10
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 5:27:02 AM
The males who are panicked or outraged about "women's lib" being anti-male, are being suckered by the most ignorant portion of the media, and by the other males who don't understand anything about it. Basically, being "anti-male-insanity" is not the same as being "anti-male."


I really hope you aren't suggesting i be lumped in with right wing propaganda artists. Womans liberations had nothing to do with anti-man. the fact that women have lost respect for men, is a very real problem in society, assuming men have a gender bias, is wrong for anyone. actually looking at facts is a better guide to reality than simply going on what has worked for you.

Here's an interesting fact for you, yesterday anne rice had her facebook page flooded with anti male circumcision advocates, after she posted about being against female circumcision, her response was to call them all a bunch of sexist pig men who feel women should take second place to men. The funny part is, the place was flooded with moms, not men at all. Go to her facebook page and read away, right now. Thats sexism and the anti male voice that is very real, being used . in real time.

how is that even relevant? she isn;t known for being anti man, yet for some reason thousands of her fans support her calling a bunch of women, "sexist men" for speaking their mind while accusing them of wanting to supress women, ironic no? Also, support the fight against FGM. it deserves support.
 no_1_bby
Joined: 5/3/2006
Msg: 11
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How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 5:34:08 AM

but who would kill spiders and open jars?

I have hairspray, a lighter and a hammer.


Women want d i ck as much as men want sex.

They just hide it better.

Some of us don't bother hiding it. It tends to scare some men.

I'm not interested in getting into a d*ck-swinging competition here.. this annoyed the living crap out of me:

respecting men is not on the forefront of the female agenda

Perhaps SOME women are anti-male.. your comment presumes that ALL women have an man-hating agenda, and that is simply not so.

All kidding aside... I need someone to cuddle, and I simply prefer my bed-mate to have a penis. A real one. Not a fake plastic one.
 MrMeSir
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 12
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 5:36:04 AM

Perhaps SOME women are anti-male.. your comment presumes that ALL women have an man-hating agenda, and that is simply not so.

All kidding aside... I need someone to cuddle, and I simply prefer my bed-mate to have a penis. A real one. Not a fake plastic one.


lol ^_^
 tnt144
Joined: 2/1/2013
Msg: 13
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 6:43:38 AM
Well, there is this little thing called love. Need I say more?!
 wolftxusa66
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 14
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 7:13:54 AM
Why do women need men?
- Who else can they pin the blame on when things go wrong?
- How else can they gauge how far off from logical reasoning they are?
- Those sandwiches they make are not going to eat themselves...
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 15
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How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 7:19:06 AM
Honestly....
there are just as many men that don't respect women as there are women that don't respect men!!
This usually stems from some personal experience that the person can't get over!!

The only men (& Women) I don't respect......are the ones that don't deserve respect.
Passed that......I don't hold whole genders responsible for the actions of a few.
 MrMeSir
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 16
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 7:27:54 AM

Not an expert so please correct me if Im wrong. Male circumcision is just a clipping of skin and does not affect sexual feelings at all. I believe female circumcision prevents the woman from being able to orgasm, I believe its the clit that is removed. But Im not 100% sure. If that is the case Im sure you would agree it would be far worse for a woman than a man and maybe why people are campaigning against it. I believe male circumcision is a religous thing or for hygiene reasons. Womens circumcision is used to control the women so she does not enjoy sex and therefore stays faithful to her chosen husband. Again, this is just what I have heard I have not looked into it so dont quote me on it I may have got it wrong.


It's nothing like a simple clipping of skin, it often sends infants into shock due to excessive pain, imagine having part of your vagina clipped off with nothing to numb it? that's whats happening, it's not "just skin" its a very sensative part of the penis with thousands of nerve endings, whether it affects sexuality or not isn't really an issue, it does on occation kill the boy, a little known fact. yes still today with all out medical professional.

Female circumcision comes in a variety of forms, some more brutal than others, but honestly, why should we care the degrees of female circumscision? lets not take a knife to our daughters vaginas for no reason. It also doesn't prevent women from having orgasms, studies have been done, again, shouldn't matter.

Here's the thing, i am against both for children, adults can freely choose their own path, and no i did not take part in the flood against anne rice, i was disapointed in all sides on that one, to be honest.

I don't feel we should comepare infant boys and infant girls on a whether it's ethical to cut of peice of their genitals off or not, i believe the point is, it's their genitals and i have no right to their genitals, i wouldn;t dream of doing it to anyone.

I'll give you a few "reason" why parents are under the impression it's benificial, i should note that the places that do female circumcision also have similar views for girls. One of the biggest reason, aside from religion and simply branding to look more like dad, is to help repvent HIV, without foreskin men are indeed less likely to get HIV, however, babys do not have sex, children do not have sex, on top of that, it lowers the chance of getting hiv by such a small amount, it's not worth mentioning. condoms and being selective with you sex partners is always requires whether intact or not, or you run the risk of becoming HIV positive, as in, theres no protection in reality. Another one is that it prevents UTIs (urinary track infections), this is a big one, most boys who are circumsized do not get them, yay!!!! sadly, most boys don;t get them period, there is actually a large difference in the UTI numbers, unlike the HIV numbers, i think its something like .2% of circumsized boys get UTIs and 20% of intact boys get them, HOWEVER, this is in the firsts month of their lives, the numbers rapidly drops and boys and men are far less likely than girls and women to get them, whether they are intact or not. it just not a male issue. there's also penile cancer, again, this is a later in life situation, the choice to have the foreskin removed can be made in adulthood by the owner of the penis, if they so choose to have it removed.

I can tell you, of all the people i've ever heard about having foreskin operation done whilean adult, it has never been for health reasons. it's usually because of preasure from society to have them look a certain way, if you want to tlk about sick twisted view, yeah society wants women to be stick thin, but it wants men to cut off part of their penis...

In my country female circumcision is illegal in all forms, i am focused on making things right in my own country, so i am happy about that, but my happiness for that is mostly where it ends with me, as i believe its a noble cause, i do believe for those that have it legal in theirs, they should fight to stop it, i am not happy that male crcumsicion is legal, yet hasn;t been recommended for health reasons for more than 50 years, if ever. having been backed by religion, and lack of study and possible health benifits that don't ever seem to translate, it has continued, goig as far as creating a campaign of intact naturl penis's being ugly, our society has its issues for sure.

Another note, when these practices started, it was believed infants couldn;t feel pain, this has been proven wrong, and it wasn;t proven wrong that long ago, if you can believe it. i was recently told by someone i haven;t talked to in years that she had her 5 sons cut, and all 5 slept through it..... just another fact here, it's impossible to sleep throght it, it hurts too much, being in shock and sleeping are completely different things.

Sorry, you kinda actually hit on one of my subjects here, my fault i know, and i can go on about it a bit much. I don't judge people for doing it to girls or boys they're all doing what they think is best, all we can do is spread awareness, and hopfully stop religions from branding our children or anything else that hurts children for no good reason.
 MrMeSir
Joined: 2/17/2012
Msg: 17
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 7:29:59 AM

I wouldnt say that women have lost respect for men, I certainly havent. But I do agree with you to a degree especially within your age group. Raising two boys I can feel the negativity towards them. The natural instincts of a boy being frowned upon the skills that boys and men bring being put down. I have also witnessed in my job a lot of young males feeling they are less than they should be and I would agree I think this is a problem that needs to be addressed. I would like equality, for all, I do not want my sons growing up downtrodden or put in a position where they feel they do not have the same rights as a woman. I want my boys to grow into confident and capable young men. Its a good point you raise.


I think it's getting better, rather thn worse, so its looking positive. mothers of boys are the biggest pusher, so i thank you.
 jlynn1955
Joined: 8/24/2012
Msg: 18
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History
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 8:10:36 AM
Aw geez---this oughta be good. Where is Stubidoo when you need him?
 ryuoki
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 19
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 10:19:44 AM
Nice discussion. To say this is unnecessary topic is far fetched. It is something that has been going on and will continue. How many of you actually listened to 'Girlwriteswhat'? Women do not NEED men in our current society (just reread my #1) . Where as men NEED women. You hold all the cards. As for saying you have to choose between career and children.... not necessarily. There are stay at home dads. I personally was one while I was down from a spinal injury and still barely being able to walk managed to keep the house up while also doing the male dominated chores as well. I took my son where he needed to be and his mother only worked 2 days a week. She really did nothing on her days off unless she wanted to but that gets to digression I will not get into unless asked. There are plenty of tricks to opening jars. Spiders are not a real problem, put them back outside where they can keep pest populations in check.... but for a fact they would NOT be inside the house if there was nothing for them to eat in the first place so think on that one. And the old song and saying "anything a man can do a woman can do better" holds true in many cases, except distance pissing while standing, but who cares about that. That ones moot anyway. Also Girlwriteswhat touched on something in the video I see quite often here in these forums. A man has an issue and is just looking for a little bit of reassurance and gets slammed as being a whiner or crying in his posts. When a woman does this she receives quite a bit of support. Not negativity. Goes right along with societies coddling of females. Ladies can be just as tough as men at anything. Society says they are delicate glass and that these princesses are too fragile to be in certain jobs. BUNK!!! That is hogwash. Not much manual labor left that a machine does not do it in the first place, that a female cannot operate just as well as a male.

To say you need or want someone to love. The homosexuals have something to add to that. But it is a good point on the cuddling part that you prefer that one to 'have a penis'. It still comes down to personal preference and your personal value for having a male. Go back to 1) and create the scenario (in fact I believe The Outer Limits had a show just on this specifically). After say 100 years, new generations of females (who will then be the human race) will have no idea what a 'male' is. They would not know what they were missing in the first place. If you never had it, how can you miss it.

Women now days do not have near as hard as say 100 years ago. But then again it still was not 'hard' per say, but each person did their part for the family. The man still risked life and limb to provide. Something that continues now days but on a smaller scale with supermarkets available. With women's lib the previously male dominated work place is becoming more and more feminine friendly and making where men used to feel safe and secure less so for themselves. Again listen to the video link as she is far better with words than I am. To say that women have been persecuted for standing up for rights has not been violent in centuries really. The worst the women got in recent years was ridicule. Feelings hurt is not necessarily persecution. Nothing like Joan of Arc has happened in quite some time. Now days a woman has MORE rights than a man in MANY areas of society, especially when it comes to the children. Having them, keeping them. Of course the man has the choice of abstinence but that is difficult for the most part. It is hardwired in our genes to 'spread the seed'. We fight our biological nature every day to be more 'civilized' . Aggression is also hardwired in us. This ability to choose is what separates us from the rest of animal society. Chris Rock said it best and my quote may be off by a few words "Women are offered sex many times a day from the time they are like 12. It is no wonder it is easy for them to turn it down. 'Can I help you with that door?' 'Would you like some help carrying those grocieries?', when what is being said is 'Can I help you to some D!CK'. Men do not get that luxury often. So when sex is offered it makes it so much harder to turn it down." So women do not necessarily have it harder in today's society, but is in fact getting much easier for them. A woman can get medicaid off the bat from the government. Men cannot unless they have sole custody of a child. For equality lets start here in the dating sites. Why don't you ladies show you find someone attractive and start looking for 'the one' rather than waiting and hoping he comes along and finds you? That would be equal. Women hunt now days, so why not hunt yourselves a mate?

-----------addressing each post individually if not already above with my own opinions------------

Outmind, I stated genetically obsolete. Males are no longer necessary to perpetuate the species. We can be bypassed entirely should society choose to do so (or feminism gets even more power). I personally am a humanist and I would like equality and would love the 'woe is me' to end. We are the only species on the planet that can feel sorry for itself.

I never saw a wild thing
sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.
-David Herbert Lawrence

I do not want to get into theology on this matter. 'God' is another subject entirely.


1) Oddly, I didnt just want a child, any old child with some test tube. I wanted children with my husband. I wanted the life that went with them as well. A husband to grow old with, a family around me, a unit where we were all together. Never managed it but hey at least I tried. Believe me, raising them on my own was not my first choice, am sure its not for many women.


Again to say women HAVE to raise them when not with a man is not always the mans choice. I would love to have my son with me and I do not need child support from his mother to do so.

Now again lets talk about the VALUE of a man in todays society. As the woman in the video states, 'women just have to BE to be valued'. What defines a mans value in todays society? It seems many of the posts are based upon what was in this thread alone and few watched the video to make their comments. Again she is far more eloquent than I am.

Journalism is its own evil Igor. Media has but one real goal, RATINGS. The more scared they can make the public the more the public will continue to watch for further developments.

Sh!t my dad says "No. Politicians don't wanna scare you, they wanna keep you stupid. Fear is just the smell when ignorance takes a shit."

And the media just continues to push their own political agendas for what? RATINGS. I for one stand for the abolishment of money, and people and their skills for their community should be valued. But that is another discussion.

'On the prowl' ... go back up to where I talked about hunting.

Igor you just reiterated the point of women having it easier in the mating department without stating how they too actually have it hard. Unless the ladies are seeking good genes so their children have the best chances in life are a deciding factor they do have it 'easier'. You ladies do not have to straight up kiss the guy to show him your interest. Being a bit more bold by touching him and showing interest in him in most cases is more than enough to show you like the guy. Of course a man cannot touch a woman to show interest, society frowns upon that.

Based upon what I see going on, genetics are not even a key factor in mate decision period. I for one am rarely ever sick, and it's not because I am not exposed to pathogens. Only the most exotic of bugs actually effect me and it lasts half the time of others. My ex took our son with her back to El Salvador and they got sick during the week they were there. The only delay they had coming back was getting ticket arrangement situated. They were sick for a week. When they brought it to me, I was ill only 2 days. Maybe I am just so undesirable that even germs do not want me... must be it. I heal quickly, recover from fatigue fast, have a high metabolism, no allergies, high tolerances to heat and cold, etc, etc. Why am I not beating women off with a stick for procreation? Because having these things is no longer desirable for the purpose of mating. This lack of marrying a strong man to have strong children .... I guess I can put that around the Industrial Revolution as a starting point. But likely far more recent since individuals no longer need to hunt, protect their families as they did nor raise gardens to keep fresh produce available. This was just under 100 years ago. This is why more children have allergies, likely autism, among other genetic issues. I place the blame entirely on deodorants and perfumes. Pheromones are not being received or at most drowned out and covered by these chemicals society says we need to be socially acceptable. I do wear deodorant but not in huge quantities. And as for perfume/cologne very rarely. I prefer to wear what my date likes, otherwise I am usually doing without. Apparently I do not stink because no one is gagging around me or keeping themselves a 10' poles distance from. Bathing is enough for that. Moving on.....

Equal pay cannot be proven except between 2 individuals comparing their check stubs. When was the last time you actually did that with what is considered an equal coworker of the opposite sex?

To attract a mans attention, most women just again 'have to be'. If you have the looks it makes it that much easier. For those who do not, they have to try a little harder, but you still hold out waiting for the male to ask you out. Do you want chivalry or equality? It does not go both ways. Ask the guy out if you do not see a ring on the finger (and the finger changes for different societies).

Back to the start, not a silly post. Yes there are quite a few quality men and women but on internet dating, 'quality' cannot be shown in a profile. Instead it is just visual carnal desires to feed a specific fetish.

no_1_bby shows quite simply that men are not NECESSARY. Most women just need to grow a spine. You ladies just want a man because you have had the experience of one before. Again I addressed this above.


skills that boys and men bring being put down

Exactly what skills do boys and men bring that a woman cannot perform? Notice 'cannot' versus 'will not'. Those are too different word phrases with entirely different meanings.


Well, there is this little thing called love. Need I say more?!

Again tell that to homosexuals. Love does not know a specified sex. And again with the exclusion of a male in 1) how can you miss something you never had?


Why do women need men?
- Who else can they pin the blame on when things go wrong?
- How else can they gauge how far off from logical reasoning they are?
- Those sandwiches they make are not going to eat themselves...

Well there are a FEW who will take responsibility for their actions. The second note reminds me of Jack Nicholson's character in 'As Good As it Gets' when asked how he writes a woman's personality so well in his books "I think of a man, and take away reason and accountability".
Women eat sammiches.

Yes there are quite a few men who do not respect women, but those are in the nurture part of the learning process. While society is the environment that makes men 2nd to everyone else around them.

Has Stubidoo posted while I typed this?

Finally at the end. Let us continue this. I hope my points are addressed and maybe someone can give me some faith in humanity as a whole again. This post for the record has nothing to do with me specifically being rejected. I am well aware that the hundreds of rejections in my local area only mean that I must be running a race with Joseph Merrick and Quazimoto. But I am sure there is a woman who is desperate enough to focus on me as a person and not my horrible pictures. This is about men as a whole.
 shine1274
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 20
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 10:37:01 AM
Damn wimmins and their virginias.
 no_1_bby
Joined: 5/3/2006
Msg: 21
view profile
History
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 10:51:28 AM

no_1_bby shows quite simply that men are not NECESSARY.

Dude.. if that is what you got from my comment, you're failing to understand what I was going for.

It's called humour.

Most women just need to grow a spine.

Wow.

I'm getting the impression that you might see things in a way I'm not prepared to discuss at this time.

You ladies just want a man because you have had the experience of one before.

No. I want a man because f*cking myself gets boring after a while. A man can do things to and with my body that I simply can't do. Also... I'm heterosexual. A lack of men in the world won't change that.

Again I addressed this above.

tl;dr
 MutedEnthusiasm
Joined: 7/8/2011
Msg: 22
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 11:40:53 AM

How many of you actually listened to 'Girlwriteswhat'? Women do not NEED men in our current society (just reread my #1).

I listened to part of it, but her basic premise (which you reiterate below) is not my interpretation…

To clone you only need… So why do we need men as a society

Since she’s addressing cloning, reproduction and survival, the logical question would be “why do we need men as a species?”, not “…as a society.”

Society includes individual women and their wants and needs which happen to include men. Those wants and needs are far more personal and immediate than species survival.

The needs of society also include the building of bridges and blasting of tunnels and designing and manufacture of technology and composing of prose and poetry and love songs, and on and on… some or even most or maybe all of which could be done by women in some imaginary future but that’s not where we live right now, today.

Today’s society needs all the things that men do in order to remain today’s society. Remove men and you impoverish everyone.

I understand that she is making critical observations and theoretical statements about some schools of feminism, and some of it I probably agree with. But in saying that reproductive advances lead to social obsolescence, that’s where her view and mine part company. Human society by very definition means our needs for each other include the social, more than just sperm and egg.
 ryuoki
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 23
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 11:43:10 AM
I do appologize no_1_bby I did not hear the sarcasm tone of your voice. Damn text not making sounds or maybe it is my hearing.

Women growing a spine was in context to them asking a man out rather than sitting around waiting for something to happen and complaining that they never get good dates anymore. Should I spell it out more?

When you single out a sentence that excludes all context anything can sound bad. Here I will use two sentences:


I want a man because f*cking myself gets boring after a while. A man can do things to and with my body that I simply can't do.


So men are just sex objects to you when masturbation gets boring. That is your value of us.

And some of my points did not need to be retyped as I had already typed that out before I got to each individuals post.
 ryuoki
Joined: 3/13/2013
Msg: 24
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 11:46:06 AM
apparently there is a problem with editing my above post. Here is the addition:

By the way no_1_bby I am sensing some anger in there.... or was it more sarcasm?


Today’s society needs all the things that men do in order to remain today’s society. Remove men and you impoverish everyone.


Define this. What does a man bring to society that women cannot? The male zygote can be made obsolete as I addressed. Anything our bodies can do a woman's can do as well, plus gestate the next generation. Short of standing and peeing a distance there is no value on males in society. All the value is on females and given a few generations and the extinction of males women won't know what they are missing. Females can use a chainsaw, they can run fork lifts, they can work as mechanics, they can be land surveyors, they can........ Do not just give me the same old lines of wants and desires. Tell me what men bring that a society of women cannot achieve that makes us valuable.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 25
How valued are men?
Posted: 4/3/2013 12:54:38 PM

Outmind, I stated genetically obsolete. Males are no longer necessary to perpetuate the species. We can be bypassed entirely should society choose to do so (or feminism gets even more power). I personally am a humanist and I would like equality and would love the 'woe is me' to end. We are the only species on the planet that can feel sorry for itself.


Hahaha. I laugh at this. Men will not be obsolete because there are way too many dirty jobs that have to be done. Yes, some, but only some women can do them, but more than likely will not. Who is going to pick up your garbage? Do roofing? Do concrete? Lay bricks? Dig ditches?


The thing is that this whole argument is totally wrong. It pins an us against them, or one being better than the other. Neither one is better. Also, you forget, women are incomplete. Men are incomplete. Spiritually we need the other. Emotionally we need the other. The toughest, meanest guy, needs the softest, girlies of woman. It is the ying and the yang.

Also, children need both influences when growing up. Many women that grew up without a father's presence tend to have problems with men as adults. Boys also need their dad. That bonding that they make with their dads, make them better men, and also better at associating with women.

And while let's say that women do not need the man for procreation, and there are a lot of single mothers, but what will that do if there was no men. The woman still would have to go work, make money, lay that concrete while who will look after that child. The STATE?

All this is ridiculous.
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