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 Novapunkrock
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 1
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The Power of NoPage 1 of 1    
Okay this is my first post here but I've lurked for a long time. So be gentle. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how women think and difference between men and women perspectives. Of coarse everybody is different but I'm speaking in general. That being said there is one thing that I've never been able to wrap my head around. That thing is why do most women want their man to tell them no to things.

This has came up a few times in relationships of mine where a woman might say "You say yes to too many things that I ask you." This makes NO sense to me. If I ask you something for a favor or otherwise it's because I want you to say yes otherwise I wouldn't ask. It just baffles me.

I mean I get it if your asking for the world and the guy is doormat and you can't respect him. But I don't get when it's just everyday menial things. Please people shed some light on this quandary.
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 2
The Power of No
Posted: 5/25/2013 5:01:48 PM
I think its because its too agreeable, there is no limit, no boundary, nothing to beg for, nothing to show character.

I've always theorized that no man wants to be with a woman that gives him everything he wants or needs. There has to be something held back. I don't have an issue with a man agreeing to my every whim but even that gets tiring after a while, no extreme is good.
 Novapunkrock
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 3
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The Power of No
Posted: 5/25/2013 5:04:22 PM
Oh trust me. I do not play the "nice" guy. I'm a "good" guy. Not a "nice" guy. I'm quick to shut something down that I don't like and wear the pants in my relationships but still I just can't wrap my head around why if your asking for something you want to be told "no".
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 4
The Power of No
Posted: 5/25/2013 5:10:21 PM

Okay this is my first post here but I've lurked for a long time. So be gentle...

Do you mean, first post with this account?

Or first post in this particular section?

Because this is not your first post on POF.




I feel like I have a pretty good handle on how women think and difference between men and women perspectives.

This would be your first mistake.




Of coarse everybody is different but I'm speaking in general. That being said there is one thing that I've never been able to wrap my head around. That thing is why do most women want their man to tell them no to things.

FYI: Speaking in General = None of this actually means anything.




I mean I get it if your asking for the world and the guy is doormat and you can't respect him. But I don't get when it's just everyday menial things. Please people shed some light on this quandary.

You are over-thinking it.
 Bachelorette.Number1
Joined: 4/18/2013
Msg: 5
The Power of No
Posted: 5/25/2013 9:28:20 PM
Because I personally don't want to be treated like a little princess.
I prefer opinions, suggestions and talking things over like adults.
 HelenBackAgain
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 6
The Power of No
Posted: 5/25/2013 10:28:42 PM

This has came up a few times in relationships of mine where a woman might say "You say yes to too many things that I ask you." This makes NO sense to me.

That's because it doesn't make any sense. Stop dating psychos.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 7
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The Power of No
Posted: 5/25/2013 10:53:26 PM
Actually it does make sense. Or rather, it CAN make sense.

I can tell you the short and simple answer to why some people do this. It is because they only really trust boundaries which they have tested. It's a bit like the people who upon seeing a railing around something dangerous, will walk over and shake the railing violently.

When someone asks you many things, and you say yes to too many of them, the person might have reason to doubt that you are saying yes for the right reasons. While most of us would like someone to place our happiness above their own, we don't want them to do so to the extent that they now make US 100% responsible for whether we are pleased or not.

Carried a bit further, it is simple to set up an example, where the person who says yes too much, says yes to their loved one placing themselves into danger.

Much worse than physical danger to the relationship, is functional emotional danger. This is what the "nice" guys and gals walk right in to over and over. They say 'yes' to things that they actually want to say 'no' to, and then when the mate goes ahead on their say so, the 'nice' person becomes bitter and resentful, even as they continue to pretend to care about the other.

Hence, this is what I THINK these women were trying to tell you. They don't push your limits because they want them not to be there, they do it so confirm that they are reliable, and that you are reliably who and what you have portrayed yourself to be.
 HelenBackAgain
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 8
The Power of No
Posted: 5/26/2013 1:25:47 AM
I'm sorry, Igor, that sounds to me like a stage of development we should all have outgrown by sometime in adolescence. Children push boundaries so that they will receive limits, needing reassurance that they are safe.

Adults who need to do that are just crazy-makers.

Or, y'know... stop dating psychos.
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 9
The Power of No
Posted: 5/26/2013 1:32:36 PM
Let's forget the testing boundaries thing. We aren't talking people that really don't care about what they do, but those people out that won't say no to doing something they would rather not do because they haven't got the courage to say No.

These are the people anyone should want to avoid. They are the ones that assume their giving in earns them the right to having things they want. It never turns out well because their resentment at their disappointment for not having the things they want given to them eventually surfaces in equally unhealthy ways.
 corporealcull
Joined: 11/25/2012
Msg: 10
The Power of No
Posted: 5/26/2013 2:15:46 PM
hmmmm... sounds like daddy issues to me. It also seems to agree with the idea of being attracted to power, for better or worse...


Actually I think what IgorFrankensteen said was spot on, especially the part of making others be responsible for their own happiness to an extent. But I don't think it's right to do so.

What's interesting is if you consider why don't guys do this? And I think actually they do, but they don't take it so seriously because they have always been taught to be largely responsible for their own emotions. I think they do this when they mess and joke around, testing the other persons limit of humor. Of course then again, it's not exactly hard to get a rise out of a girl...

I think it has to do with how each sex decides to manage their emotions, whether it's intensive (male) or extensive (female). And so necessarily there is miscommunication. How to fix this.... hell I don't know. The only thing I could imagine that would work is if both parties recognize that this is a reactionary emotional issue, so don't get caught up in it and just break things down into things that truly matter, and get emotional about that instead. Easier said than done unfortunately...
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 11
The Power of No
Posted: 5/27/2013 7:10:13 AM
I'm sorry, Igor, that sounds to me like a stage of development we should all have outgrown by sometime in adolescence. Children push boundaries so that they will receive limits, needing reassurance that they are safe.

Adults who need to do that are just crazy-makers.

Or, y'know... stop dating psychos.


I'm with Helen on that, although I also would note that the OP is 28, and if he's dating younger, women in their early 20's, he might tend to run into this more often - while I agree 'testing boundaries' should be outgrown, a 20y/o out on their own is often in many ways still developing boundaries they didn't get a chance to 'living at home'. By the OP's age (late 20s) I would expect that to be gone in *most* people ("some people never grow up").

I have, over the course of life/dating, been accused of many things - being "too agreeable" has been one at times, which sometimes amazed me when its her wanting me to choose between the pink or blue floral placemats for the dinner table... like, uh, whatever you want. "But you must have an opinion! You're just agreeing with me to avoid it!"... um, well, quite honestly I'm a guy and I really *don't* give a crap, I'd be quite happy with paper plates and no placemats. ... so no, I don't really care either way or have a preference. But, then again, yeah, sometimes you wind up giving an opinion (pick the blue floral ones, the pink ones she'll think you're too gay ) just to keep the peace (it would be 'white lie', I really *wouldn't* care, but if picking one made her happy...).

... but if it was something I really felt strongly about, I would say so.

I think the same runs in both directions though - I've often found that some women will avoid any disagreement/argument to 'keep the peace'.

In and of itself, it's not always a bad thing if its minor little stuff, but it can be a serious issue when it starts happening over bigger things that build resentment by avoiding it. I think it's often driven by fear - I've met people who seem to sabotage every relationship, who I think have some fear of losing themselves... and others who jump in wholeheartedly/fearlessly, but then question *everything* about the other person if they so much as show any sign of doubt or wanting to take more than 0.27seconds to decide when the wedding is. (or, in simpler terms, they expect someone to react like they do - and there is something 'wrong' if they don't, rather than learning to work out & accept the differences). I think as human beings, we are all at the same time both complex in ways and simple in others - the trick is to realize/understand which is which, and not be quick to judge the simple in complex ways, or the complex in simple ways.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 12
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The Power of No
Posted: 5/27/2013 7:37:16 AM
Yes, this is why I specified "this is why SOME people do this," I did not say it was a result of wisdom, or of clear thinking. I was simply giving the main reason I have concluded was behind this sort of behavior when I have seen it.

Almost everyone makes such mistakes in the course of driving themselves through their lives. Usually, we do grow past such crutch-like behaviors. Some do, some don't. Just as with physical crutches, these temporary "solutions" tend to get in the way of living life accurately.
 Bearfish13
Joined: 11/3/2012
Msg: 13
The Power of No
Posted: 5/27/2013 8:12:30 AM
I think its just a matter of having a backbone and being able to put your foot down when the time comes, and this doesn't apply to dating, to every aspect of your life
 corporealcull
Joined: 11/25/2012
Msg: 14
The Power of No
Posted: 5/27/2013 9:14:16 AM
^^^^


Well, for one thing I wasn't serious with that statement actually, just found it strange how well it works at explaining everything.
But I don't buy the whole "it's a reflection of who you are" reason, EVERY guy will respect you enough to tell you what's going on, once they get close enough. But like I said, it's also just not as natural for a guy to have to explain their feelings to everyone, that's just not the way they feel.
If they say "yes" more than they should because they're sparing your feelings, it DOESN'T automatically turn them into pushovers, it's just way too believable that there will come a time where they will start an argument over something they disagree with. In my opinion, you are turning it into something it's not because it's convenient.
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 15
The Power of No
Posted: 5/27/2013 9:20:27 AM
No that's not true. You don't want to date someone who is too much of a yes man, because then you wonder if they actually have an opinion or whether they just go along with it for the sake of getting on. That can cause certain problems in a relationship when there's a disagreement and the guy would rather keep quiet than respect you enough to tell you what's going on. If a man can't respect me, then I can't respect him. I feel uncomfortable with men putting me on a pedestal.


That does work both ways. Case in point, I bought my house in 1991, and it came with "avocado green" appliances (dishwasher, stove, and 'fridge). The GF of a few years moved in w/ me in 1994, and within 2mo's the fridge died... now, no problems with that - it had to be pushing 20yrs old, so we ran out for some ice that night (was a Saturday late afternoon/early evening when we found it dead) and loaded stuff up into a cooler on the floor, I wrangled the old fridge out of the space (it was between a wall and some cabinets), disconnected the water for the ice maker, we cleaned out the dust bunnies , and I wrestled it out onto the back deck so it was out of the way. And I measured the space for it, 35" wide, 6' tall.

Next day we went shopping for a new fridge. She wanted ice & water in the door, no problem... she gravitated to this side-by-side GE fridge, ice & water in the door... except 36" wide. I commented (logically) that it wasn't going to fit in the 35" space that was there, but right next to it was the *identical* model in every way, just 34" wide, we should get that one ($100 cheaper or so, but, price wasn't the point, width was). Her comment back was "well, we'll just have to redo the kitchen then!" Again, logically, I said that redoing the kitchen right then wasn't really an option when all our food was in a cooler on the floor, and if she *wanted* to do that I was more than open to talking about it, but right then probably wasn't the time, and if we were going to do that then we both would have to contribute (I was paying the mortgage & bills, so her paycheck - roughly same as my pay - was all hers). Her response? "FINE! Forget it then!" and got all pissy and stormed away. Wound up not buying anything just then... next morning (Monday) at work I happened to mention the fridge dying, and one of my coworkers said an elderly couple down the street from him had retired, and was redoing their kitchen with all chrome SubZero appliances (new cabinets, everything) and had a side-by-side GE they'd just bought 2yrs earlier they were looking to sell - turned out to be the exact same 34" wide one she'd wanted the 36" version of, so I bought it for $500, put it in that night...

... of course she wouldn't talk to me (pouting over not getting her way) for a week. Yeah, you want to feel 'disrespected'... all I wanted was a fridge so we weren't living out of a cooler - logic (me) said that getting one that would fit in the available space (where the water was for the icemaker too) made more sense than ripping the kitchen apart with no plan/design for what she wanted to do made no sense. Emotionally, to her, she didn't get what she wanted so it was "pout and don't communicate".

Y'know, if she wanted a $100 blender to make nice foo-foo drinks? Go for it, pick what you want, I really don't care. If that makes me a "yes man", well so be it - it's just not something that I care strongly about. When you're talking $10K+ for an entirely new kitchen, I think it should be something that should be discussed.

Needless to say, I still have that fridge, coming on 20yrs later - and not the GF (she was gone a year later). The fridge was the better deal.

Respect goes both ways. One can easily argue that "testing" someone all the time is disrespectful. And it does take an understanding, to what you said about "you wonder if they actually have an opinion or whether they just go along with it for the sake of getting on" of realizing that most guys *don't* care about the pattern of the dinnerware, or whether the color of the blender matches the kitchen decor, etc... but they are gonna care when you want the 8' wide sectional sofa that needs to fit in a 6' wide space. Its a silly example, but when either (or both) people can't communicate, that's usually the result.
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