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 AUTHOR
 Randal5
Joined: 10/23/2009
Msg: 1
communication trapPage 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I'm asking the guys on this forum if they have had the same experience. We have heard many times the complaint from women that we need to communicate our feelings openly and effectively to improve relationships. My experience has been that the response from most women is that my feelings are not valid or superceded by their feelings. It feels like I got suckered into opening a door for more criticism. Whoops, should I strike what it feels like? Ladies, feel free to respond. I know you will anyway.
 usmaleagain
Joined: 8/1/2013
Msg: 2
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 11:22:58 AM

We have heard many times the complaint from women that we need to communicate our feelings openly and effectively to improve relationships.


- That's what the pop-psychology of today would have you believe. The truth is, men and women are different. Women are often the more talkative ones, and tend and mend. Men, on the other hand, are wired differently... it's not that they bottle up their feelings inside; rather, they sometimes prefer to workout their problems in their own mind, alone. Read the book Men are From mars, Women Are from Venus by Dr. John Gray... the entire book covers this one particular difference.

While it's true that generally, women know more about relationships than men (they have more intuition), where they often fall short is understanding the subtle differences between men and women. If you want the facts, seek out an expert or book. Just being a woman alone does not qualify one as an expert on women.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 3
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 11:23:30 AM
If anyone, male or fe,ale, belittles you for expressing your inner most private thoughts and feelings...they are not your match and you should walk away. It is a bad sign for any decent future relationship.

Both sexes experience this from time to time, and not always from someone of the opposite sex. Some people even grow up with parents who do this to them as children. It is something we all have to keep in check and not allow.
 Randal5
Joined: 10/23/2009
Msg: 4
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 11:41:56 AM
Another trap that I refuse to enter is the guessing game.....as in " you tell me what you did wrong" or " you tell me why I'm mad"
 Deadliest_Snatch
Joined: 10/25/2012
Msg: 5
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 12:18:19 PM

Another trap that I refuse to enter is the guessing game.....as in " you tell me what you did wrong" or " you tell me why I'm mad"

Where do you find these types of companions? And why are you attracted to them?


You need to disengage from an interaction of that type (it takes two).
I n the long run, I think you realizethere are other types of companions from which you can choose.
 Proteaus
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 6
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 12:22:20 PM
Not sure if it is much of a trap or more the case that it seems a lot of them are addicted to this online dating . When I became active on this site last Dec. I set a time limit that I have to waste time on a online dating site . A lot of women will block you for merely asking how they are , or what they like for additional interests . Guess most are chasing that perfect little picture they have in their minds , unfortunately that's the only place that picture exists .
 Indira46
Joined: 8/19/2012
Msg: 7
view profile
History
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 12:25:10 PM
Tickle_me_pank, that is the best response I've ever heard! I can't wait for someone to pick a fight with me so I can use it.
 Aura1shine
Joined: 3/2/2011
Msg: 8
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 12:29:10 PM
Unfortunately, none of us has the same frame of references while growing up. When one behaved in a way that"s not a norm for the other expectations there will be communication dissonance- a mismatch of expectation.

Best to do is just ask why are you being mad and learn from that experience. However when one has a cognitive impairment by intentional lack of sensitivity to others( brush off as no big deal) or merely an ingrained up bringing in a manner of lacking consideration to others(selfishness), the repetition of undesired behavior would ensure further frustration and resentment.
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 12:32:36 PM
We have heard many times the complaint from women that we need to communicate our feelings openly and effectively to improve relationships.

i haven't. but then, i did my own work on my own behalf. i determined what kind of communication style worked for me, then kept searching till i found someone who shared it. we have no arguments over 'you need to communicate this way, you need to communicate that way.'

My experience has been that the response from most women is that my feelings are not valid or superceded by their feelings.

you might consider the idea that feelings are not arguable, and if you're with a woman who goes down that path, you might be better off with someone with a more compatible communication style. it's ACTIONS that are arguable, not feelings.

you might also consider your own agenda, and whether the issue here isn't your feelings being discounted, but that you chose a communication tactic for the wrong reasons: that you expected 'communication of feelings' to earn you some concession in a power struggle, rather than serving conflict resolution. this statement suggests that:

It feels like I got suckered into opening a door for more criticism.

people often end up feeling burned when they adopt an unspoken quid pro quo - a communication fault in itself, of course, because it requires mind reading, and isn't fair to that person or their partner.
 ironwinecoffee
Joined: 9/4/2012
Msg: 10
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 12:38:47 PM
It would be great if you could give an example. I would never tell somebody their feelings are not valid because well your feelings/perceptions are exactly that..... yours. I have probably told somebody I had a different perception or a different response/feeling about a given situation. The whole "ladies feel free to respond, I know you will anyway" not sure what to make of that.
 Whisky_River
Joined: 9/12/2010
Msg: 11
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 12:39:34 PM
Well...I'm sorry Randall...If your communication skills are anywhere near what you have set forth here...it's not very effective.
What do you mean by you opened the door for criticism...is this about a certain scenario...in real life or on line???
Please....more info would be appreciated.
I would only guess....You feel you are not being heard or understood...am I getting warm?
Good communicating...doesn't always mean...the other person ends up in "agreement" or the other person can understand.. your point of view.
Without specifics....all I can say is ...pick your battles and try to compromise and if it's too much of a deal breaker...get out!!
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 12
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History
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 2:06:13 PM
One basic and simple thing I've witnessed or participated in many times, along these lines is this:

the other person says "I want you to express yourself openly and honestly. Don't be afraid to say how you really think and feel."

Then they listen as the other person does so.

Unfortunately, the other person doesn't say what they hoped and expected to hear.

Therefore they dump them, or "discard their feelings."

It's NOT hypocrisy, and it's not a trap. They really did and do want you to express your true inner feelings and thoughts, its just that you aren't thinking and feeling what they want you to think and feel.

I've seen illustrative comedy routines based on that exchange. A cute gal and a normal looking guy are about to share an intimate private time together. The eager, lasciviously grinning gal calls for the guy to tell her what his favorite sexual fantasy is, so that they can act it out together.

He tells her. In the routine, it's something like "I dress up as a banana, and you dress up as small horse. You cover me with whipped cream, and then stand in the garage, with a rope around your head and between your teeth, while I..."

By which time, the gall is fully dressed, has her suitcase packed, and is loading a handgun, as she backs towards the door.

By the way, I challenge the notion that women are more intuitive than men. I think everyone is or can be intuitive, each about what they are most interested in. And everyone can turn their intuition off, if they are convinced that they can't get what they want unless they do, or if admitting to making decisions based upon it makes them seem defective in some way.

In other words, lots of people use their intuition, but they call it something else.

Another variation which is a little more frustrating, is that women will call for a man to open up and reveal that he is actually vulnerable and emotional. After he does, the woman only then discovers that she is prejudiced about men who are emotionally vulnerable, and think they are wimps. This could be a result of the woman buying into the latest pop psych fad.

That isn't an intentional "trap" either, it's more along the lines of self-sabotage by the women.
 barnabyjames1
Joined: 1/11/2013
Msg: 13
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 3:12:30 PM

That's what the pop-psychology of today would have you believe. The truth is, men and women are different. Women are often the more talkative ones, and tend and mend. Men, on the other hand, are wired differently... it's not that they bottle up their feelings inside; rather, they sometimes prefer to workout their problems in their own mind, alone. Read the book Men are From mars, Women Are from Venus by Dr. John Gray... the entire book covers this one particular difference.


Great post, I've read the book myself, explains this exactly. Too bad it doesn;t address those women who are chatty cats, and want to talk your ear off about nonsensical crap no one but them cares about.

If I'm not talking a mile a minute to you, it doesn;t mean I'm "mad at you", it just means I'm thinking and really don;t want to say much more because I don;t make a big deal about small stuff. Plusd, the game could be on, and I dont want you talking my ear off when I'm trying to watch my beloved team.


While it's true that generally, women know more about relationships than men (they have more intuition), where they often fall short is understanding the subtle differences between men and women. If you want the facts, seek out an expert or book. Just being a woman alone does not qualify one as an expert on women.



Haha, But to SOME women, it does.
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 3:15:34 PM
I think everything that everybody has said in this thread sounds like things that Hitler would say.
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 15
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 4:03:36 PM

We have heard many times the complaint from women that we need to communicate our feelings openly and effectively to improve relationships. My experience has been that the response from most women is that my feelings are not valid or superceded by their feelings. It feels like I got suckered into opening a door for more criticism. Whoops, should I strike what it feels like? Ladies, feel free to respond. I know you will anyway.



Another trap that I refuse to enter is the guessing game.....as in " you tell me what you did wrong" or " you tell me why I'm mad"


OMG! randal5, were you married or dating my ex? That's almost exactly how he behaved. Wait, did your women stomp out of the house and call you bytch after asking you what was bothering you? He did that too.
 Kay9876
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 16
view profile
History
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 4:10:37 PM

We have heard many times the complaint from women that we need to communicate our feelings openly and effectively to improve relationships. My experience has been that the response from most women is that my feelings are not valid or superceded by their feelings. It feels like I got suckered into opening a door for more criticism. Whoops, should I strike what it feels like? Ladies, feel free to respond. I know you will anyway.

When we share our feelings about important issues and/or things that repeatedly happen, it helps us adjust to each other and meet each other's needs. If a woman doesn't know how awesome (or horrible) you feel when she does "X," how will she know whether to continue doing it or stop?

On a similar note, if a woman doesn't know you have strong feelings about an external-to-her topic "Y," then she is cut off from that part of you. To be closer to you, she tries to learn more about you. And the closer she is to your heart and mind, the more likely it is that she will want to please you.

This is where communicating effectively comes into play. If your goal is to improve your relationship, tact and consideration of the other person is needed, especially if you are hoping for something from her, whether it is a change in behavior or simply understanding.
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 17
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 4:15:22 PM

My experience has been that the response from most women is that my feelings are not valid or superceded by their feelings.


What nerve. If it makes you feel any better, I’ve had two relationships in which the men did that. And Like you, my reaction was to not tell any more and to withdraw and eventually leave them. Bottom line is that people like that don’t care how you feel, and staying with them is miserable.
 63T
Joined: 5/28/2006
Msg: 18
view profile
History
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 4:24:08 PM
Randal5;

It feels like I got suckered into opening a door for more criticism


my feelings are not valid or superceded by their feelings

"Thinking" that you "got suckered" is not a feeling. It is a "thoughtful" accusation.
"Thinking" that your feelings are superceded by her feelings is manipulative and self loathing. You think poorly of yourself.
One does not "feel" suckered. One may "think" that they have been suckered.
The above quotes unfairly and wrongly place blame and responsibility on another because of your unmet personal expectations and other issues. The result will be that the other may become defensive, dismissive, combative, etc., as they may experience guilt or feel angry, sad or afraid. If I were that other person, I would ask why you "think" not "feel" that you are being suckered in an attempt to understand and rightfully shift the responsibility back to you, where it belongs.

What you are actually doing is attempting to manipulate the other person and unfairly.
Communicating feelings should not be done with an implied or otherwise expected reaction or expectation but rather with the intention of relating, bonding, sharing and evolving (positive). Your quoted statements are manipulative, inciting and stifling (negative) and, do not convey "feelings" at all.

You think that you are trapped because you are not comfortable with your feelings at all. You attempt to manipulate others rather than express your true, personal feelings which would then, allow the other person an opportunity to relate, respect and possibly recipricate in understanding and support or at least, open the door to constructive and meaningful dialogue.

" you tell me what you did wrong" or " you tell me why I'm mad

This quote is interesting as it could very well be a reaction to one of your expressed, so-called "feelings" quoted at the beginning of my post by someone who was unable or unwilling (dismissive) to address your accusatory, manipulative manner.

I don't mean to post this to be condescending or rude but rather, an attempt to help you to discover a different perspective which my be worthwhile to consider, or not.
 King_of_Nuthin
Joined: 3/17/2013
Msg: 19
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 5:00:01 PM
I can't wait to say "that sounds like something Hitler would say"
I think I'll use it anytime someone says something stupid or is trying to argue with me.

Randal, I have found the best thing to say is "When you do this it makes me feel like this..."
instead of saying something like "I hate when you do this..."
That way it's not directly placing blame on them.
 ouija2013
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 20
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 5:38:59 PM
I'm sure Randal has more examples
Didn't realize a giant Betty could be such the challenge.
I am going to use
" that sounds like something randal would say"
hate to give hitler any props
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 21
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 6:28:07 PM
randal5- Don't generalize.
Men and women are different from one another, but women are different from other women and men are different from other men.
Their are some real jerks and 'itches, but I still go by how the individual acts, not the entire sex.
I think the key to communicating is listening and communicating without accusing. If you disagree, you can do it without invalidating the other persons feelings.
Example: One of you keeps taking your shoes off and leaving them everywhere but the closet.
Bad communication: You're a lazy slob and I'm tired of picking up after you.
Good communication: Please put your shoes in the closet when you take them off.
Bad communication: You're a control freak, I'll leave my shoes where I want to.
Good communication: Ok, I'll start putting my shoes in the closet when I take them off.
 BorderCollieMix
Joined: 7/4/2013
Msg: 22
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 7:28:44 PM
I think talking about feelings is often a misdirection. Feelings depend on our thoughts, and it is our thoughts we need to communicate.

"When you do this, I feel . . ." is actually insufficient, b/c you haven't clarified for yourself or your partner WHY you feel a certain way. The behavior of the other person does not generate your emotional response; it is your thoughts about that behavior that lead to your emotional response--whether you are consious of those thoughts or not.

Example:

Partner comes through the door and does not greet you immediately. You think (perhaps subconsciously), "I must not be very important to him/her, " and feel angry or frightened or upset, and say something like, "Why are you taking out your bad mood on me?"

Partner comes through the door and does not immediately greet you. You think, "S/he has a lot on her mind." You say, in an open and encouraging manner, "You look preoccupied. Anything I can help with?

The exact same behaviors will be interepreted differently by different people. So to clarify one's emotions, one must also clarify the thoughts that are behind those emotions. Often our thoughts are completely off base--we are making assumptions about why someone is acting a certain way, and we jump to this conclusion, and the we have a negative emotional response.

It's much more effective to say, "When you do [this], I think [this] and therefore, I feel [this]." Your partner can correct your misinterpretation of their behavior by explaining why they actually did [this], and hopefully this will help the two of you avoid unnecessary conflict.

Once people start sharing what they are thinking--vs. feeling--it becomes easier to get to the heart of matters. You can learn if your partner interprets everything you do as somehow having something to do with them (You slam the door, I think you are mad at me, vs. You slam the door, and I think you have had a bad day).

I also think "venting" is a big waste of time and energy, but that's another discussion.
 hounddoug
Joined: 3/21/2013
Msg: 23
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 7:45:22 PM

that women will call for a man to open up and reveal that he is actually vulnerable and emotional. After he does, the woman only then discovers that she is prejudiced about men who are emotionally vulnerable, and think they are wimps.


+1. Bingo!


I also think "venting" is a big waste of time and energy, but that's another discussion.


I disagree. Venting is an excellent way to release the pent up anger, to "get it out of their system", and allow a person to think about the problem more clearly and not say or do something rash or stupid.
 Archiver
Joined: 3/10/2013
Msg: 24
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 8:02:56 PM

My experience has been that the response from most women is that my feelings are not valid or superceded by their feelings.


If your feelings are being invalidated, it sounds like a deal breaker to me. You should choose nicer women.

If she's just disagreeing with your opinion on something, loosen up and be open to honest discussion.
 King_of_Nuthin
Joined: 3/17/2013
Msg: 25
communication trap
Posted: 8/15/2013 8:09:44 PM

that sounds like something randal would say

I can't say that cause Randal is the singer of one of my favorite bands so it would just remind me of a few of their songs.
Besides saying that's something hitler would say isn't giving him props, it's telling the person they are an idiot like hitler.



I disagree. Venting is an excellent way to release the pent up anger, to "get it out of their system", and allow a person to think about the problem more clearly and not say or do something rash or stupid.

Absolutely agree, but venting to a partner about them is never a good thing. Call up your buddies to vent about your girl/guy. Call up your girl/guy to vent about your buddies.
Depending on your relationship with your girl/guy and your friends you can figure out which one to vent to about work, school, every day life.
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