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 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 1
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Entitlement and boundariesPage 1 of 1    
Is there anything you feel entitled to? If so, who is responsible for providing that?

What about boundaries...? If we don't get what we need, who's fault is that? Ours, for not fighting for it? The gov'ts? Or someone else's for not providing it? Or? What if we had it and it was taken away?

This can include relationship issues like demanding honesty or health issues like clean water or any issue.

I believe I'm responsible for accepting or rejecting whatever it is I want in a relationship with a spouse, even if they "blow it" when it comes to my expectation, but promises made? I expect them to keep them. (if they can).

What about our parents or our children? Should they accommodate us? We them? Should we tolerate? Expect anything?

Is there anything you demand or feel entitled to? or won't put up with? If so, who's to blame and how do you handle it?

Your views?
 nanshe
Joined: 10/27/2013
Msg: 2
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/7/2013 1:47:43 AM
I believe I'm only entitled to whatever I put out there/ whatever I'm willing to give.
 ElysianEyes
Joined: 5/26/2013
Msg: 3
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/7/2013 2:20:05 AM
Like the above^.
And entitled to promises.
I can appreciate not all promises can be met due to whatever outstanding circumstance, but I hate HATE it, when people say they simply CHANGED THEIR MIND get over it.
It's total disrespect and exploitation of a person's trust.

Boundaries with humans at maximum stops at harm. Boundaries are what God has ordained, what ethics dictate, etc.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/7/2013 4:34:08 AM
Such a vast and varied subject area.

My government is responsible to see to it that I have clean water and safe products and that my fellow citizens aren't allowed to put THEIR agendas ahead of mine for the wrong reasons. It's MY responsibility to push my government to do IT'S job.

I don't think of "boundaries" as having anything to do with "needs." "Boundaries" have to do more with things like "tastes," or "inclinations" or "personal desires." A "need" is something that isn't up to me, without which I cannot physically function. Too many people apply the word "need" to what they happen to want, because they want to manipulate everyone else into giving them what they want.

As to "promises:" this is one of the many fundamental things that we really SHOULD be directly taught about as children, but no one even so much as mentions it. Making and keeping promises isn't a simple thing at all. Before anyone can MAKE a promise, they have to put in a lot of time and work learning about themselves, so that they know what they CAN promise, and what promises they are capable of living up to...

...and, the same amount of time and work applies to the people who CALL for you to make promises. They also have to do a lot of work and learn about the world and themselves, before they have what it takes to CALL for promises. After all, most promises are like most contracts: they don't just bind ONE of the people signing it, they bind BOTH of them. When you extract a promise from someone, you are usually offering them a commitment of your own in return. Too many people have not been trained in how to ASK for promises. Whether it's a citizen-government situation, where the citizen wants the government to promise something, but the citizen doesn't want to deal with the consequences of having the government do (or not do) whatever, or whether it's a person in a human relationship who wants to extract one-sided promises from mates or children or parents, the problems that result are the same kind of mess.

"Be careful what you wish for." Also be MINDFUL about what you demand from others, because it does obligate you to do so, whether you realize it or not.

The parent-child relationship is completely different from all others. If you deal with your children as though they are miniature mates, you will fail as a parent. If you deal with them as though they are employees in a business you will fail as a parent. If you deal with them as though they are citizens of your nation, you will fail as a parent. You do have to deal with them as though they are all of those things, and much more.

It's common in political circles these days to claim that "Entitlement" is a dirty word. Greedy, selfish, and terribly short-sighted people have worked very hard to try to paint everything that anyone expects from them as equal members of a society, to be those people feeling "entitled," and therefore wrong. These people want nothing but one-sided promises from everyone else: they want the protections of government, and the support from government whenever THEY want to do something, but they want to do and give absolutely nothing in return. They pretend to be fighting against other's false sense of "entitlement," but all they are really fighting for is their own selfishness. THEY are the ones who think that they are "Entitled" to walk all over everyone else.
 ElysianEyes
Joined: 5/26/2013
Msg: 5
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/7/2013 6:43:30 AM
^ Very good post.

On promises -
You're right. I too don't think we are taught the meaning of a promise as children, or even as adults. A promise for many seems to be an offer, which the offerer has the prerogative to give or take back at whim. Whereas a promise is a responsibility. One need not say "I promise". And certainly the promisee would have to owe something in return. Even as much as a gratitude.
Where I struggle though is -- and this is through discussion with a friend some time ago - is, what if you do carry through a promise, but it's not the other person's liking? Say you promised a BMW. So, you got a BMW. But it happened to have a scratch or wasn't the latest model. Is the promisee entitled to get nasty -- even though you probably spent all your life's earnings to purchase this BMW?

I believe every human is entitlted to dignity and respect. Some people tend to use their status or wealth as a reason for entitlement. While on the other hand, some poor people believe they are entitled for free money from passer by's.
"You're rich, you can spare us a few..."
And...
"You're poor, useless piece of.... I am a doctor, you need me, so rub my feet."

Or... "I am a woman.... therefore..."

I'm not quite sure about entitlements based on status. It kind of annoys me.

Justice is another inherent entitlement.
And people who do good righteous things, are entitled more so for support to increase their good work.

going back to status... hmm.. i guess status does in some ways matter.... for example, a child's entitlement vs an elderly's entitlement....
 motown_cowgirl
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 6
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/7/2013 7:35:30 AM
I liked Igor's post but I don't want to go that far down into the weeds with it.


Is there anything you feel entitled to? If so, who is responsible for providing that?

yep. personally, I feel entitled to my own happiness and I'm responsible for providing that. socially, I feel entitled to my freedom as framed by the bill of rights and I'm responsible for that too, but in a different way.


What about boundaries...? If we don't get what we need, who's fault is that? Ours, for not fighting for it? The gov'ts? Or someone else's for not providing it? Or? What if we had it and it was taken away?

I have lots of boundaries (albeit not completely inflexible ones) when it comes to relationships (as we typically talk about them on POF) because I don't see those kinds of relationships as very useful or interesting. so if i don't get what i need out of a relationship, i simply walk away from it. "whose fault is it" is just another who shot john question. fix the problem or get rid of the source, *simple*. i'd rather not to bring the government into my answer since i don't see them as particularly useful or interesting either, except in certain prescribed ways which are already clearly defined in the Constitution, or when I'm feeling politically peckish.


What about our parents or our children? Should they accommodate us? We them? Should we tolerate? Expect anything?

as an adult, my parents are no longer required to "accommodate" me. should i tolerate or expect anything from family members... it depends on the context and it's not a question I'd answer in a vacuum.
 Bachelorette.Number1
Joined: 4/18/2013
Msg: 7
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/9/2013 7:16:03 PM
I feel entitled to breathe, eat and be safe from criminals. But I could get mugged tomorrow...
And I think all my "demands" have fallen to the wayside...Things that come along now I view as blessings.
My entitlement issues probably faded away after I had 3 babies, so by the time I was 30-ish. I thought I was entitled to Lancome mascara. Little did I know!

From my family I ask for honesty and that's about it. Everything else is just gravy after that and I'm grateful for all they give on their own. If I don't get honesty, I ask why they aren't being honest and go from there...

No one has to do anything they don't want to as far as the rest of it goes.
Boundaries? Are self imposed. Too many, you're alone, too few, you're miserable.
This is such a varied subject with a gazillion answers within another gazillion scenarios...

I say - Stay with people who have a good enough character, a willingness to understand a view point other that their own, and
a desire to work things through. Everything else, like entitlement, boundaries and demands can be worked out if the ones involved aren't too selfish, too self absorbed or too immature.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 8
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/10/2013 4:01:59 AM
Excellent thoughts from all sides.

I'm reminded of something I wrestled with often, especially early in life, with all this. That is, the seemingly little thing that I was taught as a child, about saying "please" and saying "thank you." It seems to be connected to the idea of a sense of entitlement, at least in some ways.

I can see where it's not hard to get confused, when someone tells you that you should, or must say "please" as you are asking for something. Lots of children and grownups alike, get the idea that they should get whatever they ask for BECAUSE they say "please," rather than grasping the more subtle reasons why saying "please" has importance. I have witnessed often, where people of all ages have built on a misunderstanding of "please" and "thank you," and committed all sorts of acts of horrid selfishness. And this goes in every direction, too. In political views, the Left, the Right AND the Center, all make the same mistakes, in slightly different flavors, all based on how they misinterpreted things like the meaning of being polite.

Someone can think that saying "please," is the same as paying a fee, so they should automatically get what they ask for. Someone else can, because of that kind of thinking, come to resent anyone who says "please," because they think that politeness is a game of one-upmanship, where whoever says please first, wins.

"Thankyou" gets seen sometimes as a pro forma thing to toss off, without any real meaning, and at it's worst, it gets seen as a way to AVOID paying for what you get from someone else.

Back in the horrifying seventies and the vengeful eighties, I saw all sorts of twistings up of these sorts of things. I remember noting in the seventies, how some people who thought they were promoting "liberation" would declare that saying please and thank you was a BAD thing, because "please" was an admission that someone was your superior, and "thank you" was an admission that the other person was giving you something that indebted you to them, rather than it being a celebration of equality. And in the eighties, I saw thinking go the other way, where people who resented all that seventies stuff, began to demand that everyone should be selfish, and accept that everyone is just out for themselves, so you'd better do whatever it takes to own your own steamroller.

So I thought a lot about 'please and thank you,' and I today think it's a subject area with a lot of subtlety and a tremendous amount of importance, most of which is missed by too many people. 'Please' and 'thank you' isn't, or shouldn't be just about the words, or about power struggles. It should be a recognition of the real interdependence everything and everyone has on each other. It's a recognition that takes a lot of personal effort, and genuine study, but I think most people believe that it comes naturally, much as most people think that 'maturity' is a result of time going by, and not of what happens, and what a person learns, as time goes by.
 ElysianEyes
Joined: 5/26/2013
Msg: 9
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/10/2013 5:50:46 AM
IgorFrankensteen,

"Thankyou" gets seen sometimes as a pro forma thing to toss off, without any real meaning, and at it's worst, it gets seen as a way to AVOID paying for what you get from someone else.

^ lmao. Speaking of which.... how about when people say, "I'll have what she's having, Thanks."<-- Is the thanks a form of entitlement in this context? To me, it presupposes that the request will be met without a call for a plea.

I'd say terms like please, thankyou, sorry, etc, are part and parcel of a social contract. Besides for the sake of being polite, it embodies status -- you say "please" to the owner or master of whatever you are pleading for. Thank you could be as you said, a way to dodge payment, but then, it could be just what the owner simply wants to hear. Gratitude.

I also do think the degree of entitlement can vary depending on the degree of gratitude. Life could be an entitlement, but when a person murders and rapes another. The entitlement to life is restricted/incarcerated, or in some places, terminated.
 63T
Joined: 5/28/2006
Msg: 10
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 12/10/2013 10:27:41 PM
Please allow me to offer my perspective in the context of love and romantic relationships.

Entitlement happens when feelings are consistently denied, unresolved or projected upon throughout early life, rendering the self, incapable of empathy or compassion, giving way to unreasonable or inappropriate expectations, an associated perception of automatic compliance and a perceived deserving of immediate attention.
So, regarding an expectation to act faithfully, according to promise* is not unreasonable and therefore, not an entitlement.
Expecting or deserving to be loved by another is unreasonable and therefore, an entitlement.
Being dependent on another for love and support especially as a child but, not expecting or deserving, is not unreasonable and therefore, not an entitlement.
Children are born dependent (not deserving or expecting) on the nurturing and sustaining love, attention, support of another.

The difference between need, desire or want is the degree of emotional intensity.
A demonstrative expression through desire or want is healthy and nurturing. A demonstrative expression through emotional need is damaging and discouraging, despairing.
A loving, healthy relationship cannot be forced through an intense emotional need or attempt to relieve guilt, loneliness, fear (such as fear of abandonment).
A relationship can become increasingly unhealthy and damaging, relative to the increasing emotional intensity. As emotional intensity increases, a want or desire can become a need, very quickly or, progress over time through feeling(s).

Healthy boundaries are compassionate and respectful expressions of a set of rule(s) for recognizing and fulfilling a need, desire or want.
Unhealthy boundaries are selfish and disrespectful expressions, lacking or failing to set rule(s) or, ignoring, avoiding needs, desires or wants.
Though, boundaries may be violated, we are responsible to reinforce our boundaries or break away, detach from the violator and, if necessary or appropriate, follow up with defensive action (i.e., restraining order).

Recognizing, embracing and accepting responsibility for our part is vital to a healthy resolve while blaming is denying, dismissing the opportunity for resolve (stifling).

Keeping one's word is important to me (integrity). Utilizing the term, "I promise", suggests a gradation of committment as in, if one does not actually say, "I promise", it's not as important or, worthy of lesser value or committment.
*Any form (written or spoken) of specific intent to act or not act at some point and in some method in the future is a promise, whether verbally expressed as "I promise" or otherwise (I will, etc,.). The intensity of emotion as a response to a betrayal (broken promise) will dictate the seriousness of the breach and the action taken as an attempt to resolve, restore or dismiss.
 B3ll0na
Joined: 11/7/2017
Msg: 11
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 2/6/2018 8:05:20 AM
Is there anything you feel entitled to? If so, who is responsible for providing that? Im entitled to my peace and i give myself that.

What about boundaries...? If we don't get what we need, who's fault is that? Ours, for not fighting for it? The gov'ts? Or someone else's for not providing it? Or? What if we had it and it was taken away? if we dont get along then its just that. Who cares move on. Is what it is

I spent years working myself out and fixing issues i had and i admit i wont tolerate anyone with issues they either fail to see or work towards fixing it at least.

:)
 Gwenhwyfar2014
Joined: 2/17/2014
Msg: 12
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 2/25/2018 2:48:40 PM
We are entitled to nothing. However, we have the choice to decide whether or not we accept people into our lives that do not accept our boundaries, our standards, and our wants/needs.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 13
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 3/4/2018 3:38:05 PM
One other element in all this that I forgot to mention, is that we are all dynamic, ever changing beings, in a dynamic, ever changing world.
That means that even with promises and entitlements and all our communication and learning skills, we ALSO have to be prepared to change our own mind, we also have to be prepared to adjust when others change THEIR minds.

While that doesn't alter the meaning of a promise, it does mean that sometimes we need to renegotiate.

Now. How MUCH we need to be prepared to renegotiate, is tricky. Some people will expect or demand that their mate be willing and ready to accept any change, to the point where making a promise is meaningless. I had to deal a long time ago with someone who wanted to completely change the rules between us, while still adamantly declaring that everything they ever said to me was still true. They were defending their past selves, while wanting to follow the desires of their present selves. That exchange was what taught me not to MAKE promises of certain kinds. Mainly, not to bother to promise the future, when all I really meant, was whatever was in my mind now.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 14
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 3/5/2018 1:27:05 PM

Is there anything you feel entitled to? If so, who is responsible for providing that?

We all feel entitled to something, rightfully or wrongfully. It doesn't always require a "who" for "providing". Your question's way too vague.

If we don't get what we need, who's fault is that? Ours, for not fighting for it?

Depends, depends, depends.

I believe I'm responsible for accepting or rejecting whatever it is I want in a relationship with a spouse, even if they "blow it" when it comes to my expectation, but promises made? I expect them to keep them. (if they can).

Depends what it is. Don't use your "gut" (aka Feelings) as the benchmark. Step outside yourself and assess things based on what is fair.

What about our parents or our children? Should they accommodate us? We them? Should we tolerate? Expect anything?

You're being Way too vague. You need to give concrete examples -- and assess variations where "I kinda feel entitled to X, but I'm actually Not" VS "I feel entitled to X, and yes, One is entitled to at least that."

We're entitled to Respect from someone when we're respectful to them. We're not fully entitled to x/y/z from a spouse if you made an unrealistic x/y/z Demand that wouldn't be realistic to fully get from them, even when they agree to it. Assuming x/y/z by default, isn't how people are by nature -- but something more than that.

Am I entitled to a GF to never go out to the bars with friends, because she said she wouldn't and my sacred "gut" tells me I have the right to be jealous if she does and that it's wrong? No.
 justinelle
Joined: 8/28/2017
Msg: 15
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 3/13/2018 1:37:21 PM
The USA is entitled to create wars whenever adn wherever it likes. It can ignore, disregard, or tear up treaties, agreements, as soon as they are signed if necessary. The USA is entitled to bomb anywhere in the world, occupy any country illegally, Syria being the latest without an authorisation whatsoever, and defying international law. The USA is entitled to overthrow or undermine any government it decides it wants to, and put in power any puppet it desires as part of the new democratic process. The US government can now rig any election in the USA itself, through surveylance of any opposition parties or individuals, as Obama appears to have done. The USA is entitled at home to backdate any law it decides is convenient and so that criminal parties cannt be prosecuted, as in the financial chrisis. In fact the USA can contravene any law on earth if it wishes, as the USA is the Law on Earth, and has and is willing to use military power to prove the point. THe USA can devistate any country and as in Vietnam leave the contaminated filth for the peasants to clear up as in Iraq, the Balkans, Afghanistan, and the rest, leave the inferior peasants to enjoy the deplected uranim as part of their daily life. As for the birth abnormalities and contamination, the inferior nations deserved it, and its an ever present reminder for the rest of the world, not to dare question or deviate from US interests.

THe US is Exceptional, which is now The US First, just the same stated god given right to rule and do to the globe what it wants for profit. Everything is for profit, and nothing must stop the profit. The US is a corporate war economy corpo with the driveing ambition, US interests are in promoting and encouraging war on a global scale.

Only 6 soverign states to be destroyed, under the new jackboot of global impoverishment. Well you have to control population growthsomehow, and maybe a nuke here or there will free up land for re-colonisation. This policy is not new, ask any indiginous tribe still surviving in the USA, living in the luxury of marginalised land deplected of resourses. Today its American Exceptionalism, or America First, just rebranding...surely?. But yet abain an idea of NATURAL / INATE superiority over lessor peoples, another idea pinched from NAZI ideology amongst many, as once Germany was the Master Race, a superior race and we all know how history went with that bunch of delusionists.
 Cynderella
Joined: 3/8/2007
Msg: 16
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 3/13/2018 11:33:29 PM
I blame my mom for my entitlement issues for not allowing me enough pennies to get the only black gumball in the machine.
I blame my dad for my boundaries issues for putting me on a leash as a two year old hellion.
We are responsible for our own actions and failures.
When we face them head on we become better peeps.
 justin_0116
Joined: 3/12/2018
Msg: 17
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 3/15/2018 2:09:28 PM
I believe the things you're entitled to start from yourself and radiate outwards, diminishing with distance. For example, I believe everyone is entitled to their own reasonable self-defence, safety at home, safety at work, and the necessities of life. What I am not entitled to is, for example, the state of a city-owned road. That's the responsibility of the city, and the responsibility of the neighbourhood to petition the city should the state of the road degrade.
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 18
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 5/5/2018 8:39:42 PM
Certain religions actually teach to never make a promise because you cannot predict the future- and to make a promise and fail it is a lie_ a blight on your soul. often when "boundaries" are crossed the boundaries crossed require consequence- and often promises are only made to avoid consequences of crossing "boundaries" And that boundary crosser is a liar, weak, cowardly and manipulative. I am entitled to make informed decisions about my life- if someone lies to me my resulting decisions are based upon a lie? It is just a preference not a need I get it but why is someone else entitled to rock my stroll with damn lies??? Who entitled all these liars- talking about state city government responsibilities- talk about failed promises- can we say politicians???
 ghostata
Joined: 3/29/2018
Msg: 19
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 5/6/2018 11:39:56 AM

Certain religions actually teach to never make a promise because you cannot predict the future


Really.... that is about all religions do..make all sorts of promises.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 20
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 5/6/2018 2:01:37 PM

Certain religions actually teach to never make a promise because you cannot predict the future- and to make a promise and fail it is a lie_ a blight on your soul.

I would say that's pretty silly. It depends on the promise you make. Don't make promises you have a decent chance of not keeping -- and put promises into perspective when making them. EX: If I make a promise to a gal that I'll take her out that night, and then something crazy happens out of nowhere to thwart it (and have evidence to show her) -- it's her fault if she is pissed at me, not mine.
 AbcdeDaniel
Joined: 12/18/2017
Msg: 21
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Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 5/6/2018 10:38:12 PM
I don't really believe in being entitled to anything, at least not for free. You're entitled to what you're willing to take (as well as the consequences of taking it). Actions and consequences basically.
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 22
Entitlement and boundaries
Posted: 5/7/2018 4:39:32 PM
^ yep! to action there is a reaction or vis-a-versa you chose
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