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 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 1
Income Level and Dating ExpectationsPage 1 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
I found a link from a university that put out average household incomes on an interactive nationwide map, but broke it down to the town/suburb/neighborhood level - you can zoom in and see your local areas in colored detail...

http://project.wnyc.org/median-income-nation

After interacting with single friends from several different suburbs, and reading thousands of profiles, I've really noticed how the dating expectation level rises quite steeply from very specific affluent areas on the map - maybe not always a demand for a higher income, but definitely for a college degree or a management-type job or some other pre-determined level of 'success' that relates almost directly to those darker colors on this map - almost to the point you can 'lock' in their dating expectations by a zip code.

Part of online dating is breaking down those communication barriers created by distance as well as income and other barriers your social circles usually create, but I still see people trying to force their own social circles/norms back into these sites all the time, because that is what they are used to being around. People may not want to believe this kind of discrimination is possible in today's day and age, but I think it does happen to some extent. An example I can give is there is a really small poor neighborhood a few miles from where I live (basically a large Mobile Home Court) that shares the same zip code with a much larger middle-income suburb, and since POF pre-determines that zip code as the 'poor' town name there's about a dozen profiles listing 'disclaimers' that they are NOT 'Trailer Trash".

I know people are always going to be influenced by their upbringing and neighbors to some extent, but can YOU kind of draw lines of expectations on a map that almost match an income level? Do you think dating expectations and income ARE strongly related / influenced? Do you avoid/be wary of people from certain cities/areas because of where they live, or because of how much they make?
 gcdeb
Joined: 4/25/2011
Msg: 2
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/20/2013 11:44:01 PM

Do you think dating expectations and income ARE strongly related / influenced?
For a lot of people, yes.


Do you avoid/be wary of people from certain cities/areas because of where they live, or because of how much they make?
No to both for me. The most fulfilling relationship of my life was with a man who lived in a dumpy little apartment and he had about half the disposable income that I had.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 3
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/21/2013 9:35:07 AM

I know people are always going to be influenced by their upbringing and neighbors to some extent, but can YOU kind of draw lines of expectations on a map that almost match an income level? Do you think dating expectations and income ARE strongly related / influenced? Do you avoid/be wary of people from certain cities/areas because of where they live, or because of how much they make?


I can't say I've ever considered income levels when dating. I consider a person's attitude. A lot of people make excuses for not working. For example, they'll say they feel depressed and should be in disability. But it's okay for the rest of us to struggle and work hard for our money. Or they'll let their boyfriend/girlfriend pay their rent, food, clothing, education, etc. I don't think income levels really matter as long as you're attracted to them and you both put effort into life.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 4
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/21/2013 10:06:24 AM
someone who has an entrepreneural mind, thinks, acts, and speaks in a different way than someone who is happy working a job that demands little of them...and pays accordingly. Its not snobbish to admit that--the former is looking about noticing opportunities, brainstorming naturally the potential ROI if someone were to provide the needed product/service, et cetera, while the latter...isn't.

when you truly want more in life, you tend to get it. those who are happy with what they have, spend their time enjoying it rather than moving up. neither one is right--they are just right for themselves. I used to be poor, now I'm a millionaire, but when someone complains to me about something in their life, I try not to instantly suggest a solution that involves throwing money around. when I go somewhere with someone and want to go into a good restaurant just b/c I'm hungry, I try to keep in mind the person I'm with may be living paycheck to paycheck. money is merely a tool, but when you lack a tool, it changes how you operate.

you can't assume all wealthy people have common sense. but, when you see smoke, it isn't paranoia to grab the fire extinguisher. should a dating site computer pre-select for us, by working the odds? well, the problem for me was never asking a woman out--it was getting her to say yes. so, if i miss someone here due to some pre-selection based upon my zip code, chances are in the summer I'll meet them face to face at some event I go to in their town.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/21/2013 10:25:42 AM
I don't think it's so much income levels that matter, by themselves. It's more what kind of life people went through to get wherever they are.

There are well to do people who got there by luck and don't realize it, who look down their noses at people who aren't as far along, and there are well off people who had to bust butt to get where they are, who can appreciate and value peasant-level folks as equals.

I've seen people with unrealistic expectations on all levels of income.

I've also seen that there's lots of stuff that is indirectly related to income levels, which can make people incompatible despite themselves. Some interests require higher incomes in order to pursue them, and so someone of lower income wont have been able to develop the experiences to be able to relate to the other one.

On the other hand, some people grow in ways that have nothing to do with wealth at all, and can do wonderfully together despite one being a "princess," and the other being a "working class schlub."

I don't see where there can be a science to it. Too much room for variations and exceptions.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 6/22/2012
Msg: 6
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/21/2013 12:16:36 PM

I've seen people with unrealistic expectations on all levels of income.

Agreed. People can be self-entitled no matter what their economic status may be.


I've also seen that there's lots of stuff that is indirectly related to income levels, which can make people incompatible despite themselves. Some interests require higher incomes in order to pursue them, and so someone of lower income wont have been able to develop the experiences to be able to relate to the other one.

That's pretty much what I'm alluding to in reading dating profiles - their idea of 'fun' ends up being on a higher price list. The clubs and bars and restaurants they prefer, that kind of thing. Being from Minnesota it takes some cash and travel time to go to tropical locations. Listing 'Boating' as a past time is quite common, but there is a huge difference between someone who's willing to get in the water at the landing and help unload a fishing boat off a trailer versus the ones that just want to tan the rear deck in their bikini.

I agree the science is a lot of fuzzy math - but it really does strike me how living on the 'wrong' side of the freeway seems to change attitudes.
 c_deacon
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 7
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/21/2013 12:42:58 PM
Many times it is not where you are at, but more, where you came from, and that can lead to certain expectations because one accomplished it themselves.

Now......A question for you and the posters......how does this all relate if one owns multiple places and has multiple zip codes? One can have a main home in an affluent neighborhood, and a condo in the mountains, and a cabin in the woods, and a home on the beach, etc., and all can be of different geographic groupings.......go figure!

cd
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 8
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/22/2013 2:14:16 AM

Part of online dating is breaking down those communication barriers created by distance as well as income and other barriers your social circles usually create,

OP, where did you get this idea?? Online dating is about being able to present yourself to a wider audience - that is a passive activity in that it doesn't make the viewer do anything. Whatever the viewer does is of their own volition - if they aren't ready to try someone from the other side of the tracks then seeing a profile doesn't change that.


how does this all relate if one owns multiple places and has multiple zip codes?

My 2nd house was 300 miles away from my main home. I didn't want to get into another LDR so I put the zipcode of my main house. But, in the city field I listed both cities.
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 9
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/22/2013 5:32:24 AM
I only consider income if I come to learn he is being chased to pay his bills. Im not into that. I have met men from the parts of my city that are known to be lower income, it's all about how responsible I feel they are, no matter how much they make. Income can change in the blink of an eye, it's what you do with what you have that matters to me.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 10
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/22/2013 5:47:29 AM
Basically if a person "looks down" on someone that would be "classified" as being this or that is really stereotyping. Sure, someone living in low income areas or zip codes that aren't the most favorable, lots of them may not be desirable but you can turn it around and say lots very well may be desirable, you have to know the person, you can't judge "a book by its cover" mentality. And then you can look at affluent areas or men or women with great income in great supposedly zip codes and lots of these people may be some of the least desirable people you would want to meet. It's all relative. Same goes with guys or women saying he or she was attractive so by saying this, it automatically "qualified" them as being good relationship material. Huh? No, it does not qualify them as being great relationship material. So until you get a better understanding on some of these things, you can't clump everyone into the same outcome.
 juliettes7
Joined: 11/4/2012
Msg: 11
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/22/2013 6:02:56 AM
I think how someone spends needs to feel compatible. If they blow money on concerts, collecting things but come close paying basics or they can't cook and eat out all the time--it may not be deal breaker but it is a difference that may grate, depending on other factors.
I think people gravitate to or at least understand those who made similar choices. If a person's lifestyle is too different, like they love gambling, golf, sports events and all their free time and money is around that, no there isn't any point for me, but because they are male and I'm female, I've been told hey "love can overcome all". I don't think so.
If I'm seeking companionship, it's just as easy if not easier to pick someone with more in common.
 __TEXASCHICK__
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 12
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/22/2013 10:33:53 AM
From my own profile,,,

''a man needs to have income of some sort, a place to stay, and wheels, not being harsh, but real.''
 c_deacon
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 13
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/22/2013 11:27:24 AM
And a woman needs the same.....don't you think? And not minimum wage, living at home with parents or having four roommates, and driving a car that does not need repair all the time, and not a grocery cart!!

I have a female friend that has a PHD and still has made so many poor choices with men, finances, moving and living, that she ended up living in her car!!! Education does not always mean more with financial gain, and some will find ways to set themselves back over and over, and look for a relationship to save them........go figure!

cd
 Chipsss
Joined: 5/21/2008
Msg: 14
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/22/2013 1:04:55 PM
I think it’s pretty obvious to say that judging someone by their income in an unfair society can be different to judging someone by their income in a meritocracy.

At the very sharp end of the former is inbreeding such as within aristocracies.

The latter is further from inbreeding and closer to natural selection. Women within such societies will be at an advantage for their judgement, and have broader criteria (albeit perhaps still including a mans wealth) because those criteria will be more relevant in such a society.

The high divorce rate of the economic rent seeking society may also be due to the cost of living contributing to marriages breaking down. So not just the poor choice of partner I am implying due to a society that masks natural selection.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-52829/Britain-highest-divorce-rate-EU.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/divorce_rates_threaten_marriage_more_than_a_doma_repeal.html

I don’t think its that much of a co-incidence that the users of a German swimming pool will be more likely to look like the cast of bay watch while a US or UK (2 countries well known for their high obesity rates) one will be more likely to look like the kind of people who like to put their feet up and watch baywatch on the Telly with a packet of crisps.

None that any of this is to say that the modern day equivalent of “killing all the first born” (as below) reflected now wasn’t already part of nature.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/the-rich-get-richer-through-the-recovery/?_r=0

~

http://www.cambridgenetwork.co.uk/news/britains-skilled-workers-and-entrepreneurs-are-leaving/

http://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/hro/news/1075511/britain-losing-talent-thousands-graduates-jobs-abroad
 jlynn1955
Joined: 8/24/2012
Msg: 15
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/24/2013 8:20:55 PM
I dont pay much attention to income level. I'm leery of men who are not working, in that unless you are retired or in school, if you dont have a job you shouldnt be spending money dating. I can understand in these days in times why a person might be living with is parents, etc. It depends on if it's ongoing or not. What efforts he is making.

I am also leery of men who change jobs and even careers a lot.If you can't commit to a job....If you can't/don't keep a job....If you run from jobs when there is difficulty....If it's always someone else's fault you left.

I think just because someone lives in a mobile home and/or is poor does not make them trailer trash. As far as I'm concerned the Kardashians are trash.

I wouldnt avoid someone because of where he lives. More important is how he takes care of he residence, etc.

And yes, all of these things should also apply to women.
 ladymercury
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 16
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/24/2013 8:44:27 PM
Do you avoid/be wary of people from certain cities/areas because of where they live, or because of how much they make?


Not at all. These kinds of things are of no concern to me. Take the money out of trade and you're still working with value. The numbers are a smokescreen in my opinion.
 VolcanoKing
Joined: 8/6/2012
Msg: 17
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 7:56:31 AM
This brings up an interesting theory I am "testing" as I wander thru life.

OK, let's say with a woman, things aren't as dire as her living in a car...but let's say she has a modest job bagging groceries or unpacking boxes at a supermarket, and a well established guy comes in who really thinks she's hot. He's compelled to flirt, and may start to get ideas about "showing her the bigger world"..what he's accomplished, what he's done, you know..impress her, and...maybe get her out of her supermarket life. I can totally see this happening. Her accomplishments so far have NOTHING to do with whether or not he finds her attractive and may possibly offer her a new and more expansive life. Whether it works out or not, she may be very very tempted. This is a big opportunity.


Second scenario: Woman walks into supermarket. Well established career just like the man, home owner, 6 figure income, attractive, etc etc and she runs into a *guy* unpacking groceries 20 years her junior.

What are the odds she's going to stop, start flirting (OK flirting, fine but...) encouraging him to go out on a date? To become part of her life on some level?

Which scenario makes more sense...and if you picked one that does...WHY did you pick it?

I find this so interesting, and I think there are some hardwired truths to how we find mates, and what themes repeat themselves over and over. Not *exceptions* to themes..but to the themes themselves.

Of course, the man and the young woman may not, as it turns out, feel enough love for one another to make it last, or she may marry him and strip him dry financially..these are risks people take over and over.

The other scenario just makes no sense to me. BUT...that is JUST me. I cannot imagine, after all I have experienced to get to where I am, to take under my wing a guy young enough to be my son. How do I relate to him? My desire to have sex with a younger man isnt going to be enough to help this along. I would feel like a mother.

Just some thoughts, right or wrong.
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 18
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 9:05:26 AM
Volcano, I think sometimes the 'male/provider' and 'female/nurturer' roles reverse. Established men with 6 figure incomes have been 'burned' before and are looking for women with 6 figures. Ironically, these women with the 6 figures don't 'need' a man except for sex. Men looking for money and women for sex. Role reversal and underscores something else I've observed, what you're looking for in a mate isn't necessarily looking for you.

I was the classic provider in 2 long term marriages. I accept my part of the failure of each, but I now view marriage as a business contract. It has no sacred meaning to me.

I respect women that are my financial equals, without a doubt, and that excludes the women that count their alimony as listed incomes and call themselves home owners that won't date us renters (another story for another day).

The few women I've met that were financial equals clearly indicated they were looking for fun and nothing serious. See what I mean?
 VolcanoKing
Joined: 8/6/2012
Msg: 19
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 9:40:08 AM
Maybe with some of these women, they dont need anything but the "fun times" because they dont need that traditional provider thing..the stability to hang onto because they are handling it themselves. (and thank god we can do that today)

Personally...being in that income bracket myself, I am NOT looking for just a "fun time." I would love a relationship where both of us have alot to bring to the table. The whole "let's just have sex thing" is not only meaningless to me, but dangerous..met quite a few people online (and off) with STD's.

No thanks.

My original point was about the men who overlook the fact that women may have more menial jobs because looks are more important, and how women may not be so eager to do that. I think the cougar thing is not as popular as it's made out to be.

And yeah yeah yeah it does exist but NOT in the numbers the older men/younger woman thing does.

Not surprising tho, SO many things have been turned on their head over the last 40 years. Fascinating subject.
 spot4username
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 20
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 10:21:55 AM
I'm dirt poor. I don't hide that fact. I am very upfront about my finances from the beginning. I don't have crazy debts or anything (no cc bills) I just don't make much money. Some guys care and some don't.
 drivingharmony2
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 21
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 10:53:52 AM

I now view marriage as a business contract. It has no sacred meaning to me.


To each his own; however, I find this very sad. Although my marriage failed, I feel I "get it" now. I think of things I did wrong in my marriage and I won't make those same mistakes again. I still believe marriage is sacred. With that said, I don't think it's necessary to be married, to be happy as a long standing couple.


I would love a relationship where both of us have a lot to bring to the table.


Exactly!

What I find interesting.....guys who brag about making six figures incomes; however, after all is said and done, paying child support, alimony, etc.....their left over income dwindles quite a bit and they complain about never having any money. Maybe, we should be discussing DISPOSABLE income and dating expectations. In my opinion, huge difference.
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 22
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 11:06:48 AM
Or better yet, I view a committed relationship between 2 loving partners just as sacred as a marriage. I don't see marriage being any more 'sacred'.

Yes, disposable income. Thank you. Subtract the alimony received and paid, student loan debt, etc. Very revealing.
 BACHELOR02
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 23
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Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 12:01:10 PM
What's the difference how much a woman makes, if she insists on the man paying for eveygthing and doesn't contribute to the cost of dating? I've dated women, with six digit incomes, who never spent a dime. And I've dated women, who live from paycheck to paycheck. I believe this scenario applies more to women, than to men. As a female I dated once told me "when it comes to what most women look for in a man ...water seeks it's own level". I believe most women will only date a man, who is on their income level, or higher. Whereas, most men of means will date a woman, who works in WalMart, if he likes her.
 drivingharmony2
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 24
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 12:58:34 PM
In my opinion, a lot of men have issues with dating women who make more money than them. I think many men equate their self worth to how much money they make. When a man believes he has self-worth, he is a confident man which is an extremely admirable and attractive quality. Of course, this can happen with or without income but if some men equate their self-worth to their income level, then they will be more attractive than the men who do not.

I am curious Bacherlor02......you date women who make six figure incomes, yet these women "insist" on you paying for everything and "don't contribute" to the cost of dating? Personally, I find this hard to believe.....but that's just me.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 25
Income Level and Dating Expectations
Posted: 12/25/2013 5:52:54 PM

In my opinion, a lot of men have issues with dating women who make more money than them.


How many women would have issues dating a man who makes less money than her-especially if it's a big gap?
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