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 StrayCat33
Joined: 11/28/2013
Msg: 1
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic WorldPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
This was my FB status that I made last night on my FB. It was in reaction to the arrest of Pakistani politician Altaf Hussain living in exile in UK. He was arrested yesterday under so called money laundering charges by Scotland Yard. This is what I had to say on my FB:

Consider this:

Usa and western powers (including Israel) supported anti Soviet forces and elements in Afghanistan. Result? Afghanistan became a safe haven for al qaeda and Taliban.

Usa and western powers with the backing of arab states weakened the power of Saddam and imposed very unfair sanctions under a false pretext. Decade later saddam was finally overthrown. Result? Iraq became unstable and tilted more towards Iran. A major foreign policy disaster.

Usa, gulf arab states along with turkey are supporting anti assad forces actively. Even when they know it is the alqaeda fighters who are doing most of the fighting.

Anti usa militants have already taken over Libya.

Now, british government is after altaf hussain when he is the only nationally recognized Pakistani leader who and his party stood up against taliban openly.

Looks like usa and western powers on purpose want to suppress the anti al qaeda and anti extremist elements in the islamic world. So later they can invade and attack each country by claiming they are doing in the name of freedom.

Thouguhts on this?

I hope this thread doesn't get closed.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 2
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/4/2014 6:17:38 PM
I'm not doubting your claims, but you provide no proof, it's your words alone.
Where is your backup?
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 3
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/5/2014 4:30:05 AM
The murder of Imran Farooq meant a full investigation into the dealings of MQM was required. If that investigation provided evidence indicating they were engaging in illegal activities, then the eventual arrest of the leader was inevitable. If Altaf Hussain can provide evidence that negates the suspicion of illegal activities for which he bears responsibility, then he'll be released. If not, he'll be charged and have to defend himself in court. It has nothing to do with his ideology and everything to do with his actions.

If your concern is that the anti-money laundering laws are in some way unjust or that he has been the victim of improper conduct, then you should say so instead of talking about things which are irrelevant to his case. If your concern is about a lack of willingness to disregard laws and justice when it is politically expedient to do so, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your understanding of the advance of civilization. And then inform the mob burning cars in Karachi.
 StrayCat33
Joined: 11/28/2013
Msg: 4
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/5/2014 9:50:33 AM
^^^

Like British secret services and Scotland Yard didn't were not aware of his operations while he has lived in UK for 20 years? Not only that, they even gave him UK Citizenship.

I refuse to believe this.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 5
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/5/2014 2:56:29 PM

Usa and western powers (including Israel) supported anti Soviet forces and elements in Afghanistan. Result? Afghanistan became a safe haven for al qaeda and Taliban.

Usa and western powers with the backing of arab states weakened the power of Saddam and imposed very unfair sanctions under a false pretext. Decade later saddam was finally overthrown. Result? Iraq became unstable and tilted more towards Iran. A major foreign policy disaster.

Usa, gulf arab states along with turkey are supporting anti assad forces actively. Even when they know it is the alqaeda fighters who are doing most of the fighting.

Anti usa militants have already taken over Libya.

Now, british government is after altaf hussain when he is the only nationally recognized Pakistani leader who and his party stood up against taliban openly.

Looks like usa and western powers on purpose want to suppress the anti al qaeda and anti extremist elements in the islamic world. So later they can invade and attack each country by claiming they are doing in the name of freedom.

Thouguhts on this?


My thought is, that you are attributing far more collusion, knowledge, and competence to the players listed, than any of them have shown that they are capable of.
 1Fish2Catch
Joined: 5/7/2014
Msg: 6
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/6/2014 6:56:38 PM
It was an absolute privilege to visit a base that had KBR and I speak from experience.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 7
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/7/2014 1:56:51 PM

All the avoidance and deflection to fit a blog, but no explanation of the purpose of the Iraq war. We just have the evident outcome that it was all for contractors to make money. It certainly didn't accomplish anything besides creating more terrorism.


Those of us who are well read in History, and who have studied the past as dispassionately as we can manage, know that ALL wars that get fought, are the result of a plethora of motivations. Not just one, or even two or three.

The reason why those who seek to profit from others dying are usually successful at avoiding direct responsibility for starting a war, is because of this. They tag along, they hide their greed behind other peoples declarations of patriotism or fear, and they sometimes help to hide evidence that could prevent a war.

The example of the Iraq wars are good ones. Both were officially fought, at least from the US point of view, to preserve American concerns, such as the safety of allies, access to resources, and similar vague "security" concerns. Iraqi dissidents wanted us to believe various lies and exaggerations, so that we'd fight for them. Iran wanted us to believe they were necessary, so that we'd take out their prime enemy in the region. In the case of the second invasion, it's clear that some of those who helped, were simply "bribed." The Bush administration wanted us to believe the second one was absolutely necessary, on the surface, because Saddam was making a show of not cooperating with inspectors, and here at home, for the same reason why Putin wants to show off the power of Russia in the Ukraine: because acting "tough and decisive" in front of the voters, energizes your base, and gets lots of your opposition to quiet down, for fear that they will appear weak, or unpatriotic.

These many real reasons why wars which should never be fought, end up happening anyway, will play into the hands and minds of those who want to see a single Bad Player at work, such as Halliburton, or some conspiracy of Bilderbergers or whomever. They will also make it easy for most people to correctly dismiss the conspiracy theories, and to incorrectly continue to let the genuinely criminal participants escape clear recognition and prosecution, for their genuine, though usually subtle, participation in the subterfuges that led to the wars being fought.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 8
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/27/2014 6:34:58 PM
Divide and conquer at it's finest!

Financing desperate "extremists" to do their fighting before they bomb the hell out of them and take over has been the method for centuries. So has setting them up for failure and arresting them.

Why we fall for it and blame each other is beyond me.

Follow the money.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 9
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/28/2014 12:11:22 AM

Result? Iraq became unstable and tilted more towards Iran. A major foreign policy disaster.


Agreed. Why?? : 5+ years of Blind-eye policy from the "present" administration. ISIS, ISIL, et al, overran the entire region. Being observant of these developments would have mucked up the flawed concept of "full withdrawal with horse blinders on".

Now, the "present" administration is trying to save face by very publicly announcing they are "increasing funding" to moderate rebel factions. LMAO....that's their answer to the problem.....stick a band-aid on the jugular vein..... deflect & deny....mission accomplished!!!



Syrian rebels buckling in face of jihadis


Jun 27, 8:11 PM (ET) By ZEINA KARAM (AP)


BEIRUT (AP) — The Syrian rebels that the U.S. now wants to support are in poor shape, on the retreat from the radical al-Qaida breakaway group that has swept over large parts of Iraq and Syria, with some rebels giving up the fight. It is not clear whether the new U.S. promise to arm them will make a difference.

Some, more hard-line Syrian fighters are bending to the winds and joining the radicals.

"This decision is a year and a half too late," said Ahmad Ramadan, a senior member of the Western-backed Syrian National Coalition opposition group. "Had it not been for Obama's hesitation all along, this wouldn't be happening in Iraq today nor would there be this proliferation of extremist factions in Syria," he added.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140628/ml--syria-rebel_attrition-9587fab0d9.html
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 10
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History
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/28/2014 5:09:50 AM
Back to the idea that there IS or WAS a way for the US to act or have acted, which would have resulted in all the so-called "anti-extremist forces in the Islamic world" getting together in triumph....

The whole idea that everything that has happened depended upon, or has been a reaction to, the actions of the U.S. President of the moment, is ridiculous on the face of it. Attributing "moderate stabilizing intentions" to the various factions which outside national powers have aided over the decades, is incredibly naive, and requires that we completely overlook how these groups have themselves behaved.

In Afghanistan years ago, in order to oppose the Soviet Union, the US and others supported who ever was willing to fight against the Soviet occupation. In Syria, the US and others have selected whichever group opposed another group which they preferred (note that preferring one group over another is NOT the same thing as actually LIKING them), and sent them aid.

National leaders who are taking your tax money and handing it over to foreigners, will ALWAYS want to pretend to your face that the people they are funding have saintly qualities. Ronald Reagans' infamous "Freedom Fighters" in Nicaragua weren't especially wonderful people, they were just trying to overthrow the elected government that "we" didn't like, because it was too close to being communist.

ARE there really any significant "anti-extremist forces in the Islamic world?"

So far, from what I've been able to see, there are none. There appears to me, to be only two categories: the bulk of the population, which just wants to get along day to day, and will go along with anything that brings peace to their local area...and all the groups who want to be in charge of everyone else. What most outside nations have done repeatedly, as they so often do, is to roll in, make EVERYONE'S lives a mess for a while, install the closest thing they can find to themselves as a new local leader, and then act very surprised when neither the local people who's lives have been destroyed by all the fighting, nor any of the groups who's long-standing goals have been temporarily thwarted, are willing to "play nice."

By the way, bringing up the idea that someone who stood to benefit MOST from lots of extra financial support and military aid, and citing THEM as an unbiased expert source on what Obama (or any other President) should have done, is rather on the absurd side, don't you think?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 11
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/28/2014 10:20:16 PM
Its just a bit more complicated than that. First, Saudi money and CIA training and Pakistan's ISI give the mujuhedeen support, they pull a Vietnam on the Soviets, and when the SU pulls out, so does our support...which creates a vacuum for warlords, leading to a chaos that the students, or Taliban, end up fighting. Locals support the strongest side out of desperation. not unusual to find in any warzone, really.

You forgot Bosnia--when the Muslims there were getting kicked around by everyone, al Quada went in to do training, typically by using Chechins who were good at urban combat from practice in Grozny.

Coalition attacks Iraq, Bush asks for rebellion, the wrong people rise up, and no fly zones and sanctions applied and a long time later, Saddam gets overthrown under a plan to hand everything over to Chalabi, who's a no-show. Its a period of time when Sunni Saudi Arabia is doing proxy war with Shia Iran, which can also be seen in Syria. After all, those "extremist forces" tend to get a lot of indirect financial support, thru charities and the like, from Sunni states. and Hezbollah gets called in from Lebanon to help Syria fight urban warfare, which The Party of God got really good at from bouncing the Israelis out of Beirut. And Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and Dubai are really, really good friends of our's. they aren't shy about moving money around.

Libya has become a nice arms depot lately--some of that weaponry sent to Syria, came from the stockpiles Kadaffy duck built.
 blartfast
Joined: 2/21/2014
Msg: 12
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/29/2014 1:59:27 PM


leading to a chaos that the students, or Taliban, end up fighting.

I realize the party line places the rise of Islamist extremism in the area at the feet of the U.S

Except that is NOT what the poster said. The poster said this:

and when the SU pulls out, so does our support...which creates a vacuum for warlords, leading to a chaos that the students, or Taliban, end up fighting.

Huge difference between the two, although the accurate quoting doesn't leave much room for "rah, rah America" and "boo, anti-American" rhetoric.

The Islamist resistance to Marxist government had begun years before 1978

Yes it did, but it never came close to the international reach that groups like al Qaeda have had SINCE the US started giving them all that support and training and paying Pakistan to help do it. That international capability came as a courtesy direct from the US.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 13
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/29/2014 8:02:41 PM
Wasn't al Qaeda created in a u.s. courtroom to go after bin laden? ( under similar laws used to bust the mafia).
 blartfast
Joined: 2/21/2014
Msg: 14
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/29/2014 8:14:11 PM

Yousef had not been involved in the Afghan war against the Russians.

So what of it?

This just seems like more evidence in support of the international reach that all the US support and training helped them to obtain.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 15
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 6/29/2014 8:36:30 PM
when i had mentioned Bosnia, I wasn't refering to Matchlight's post, I was referring back to the OP. everything can't be about matchlight :) lol but seriously, as for giving alQuada an international capacity, we could start with where those Stingers ended up--in the Persian Gulf war between Iraq and Iran, found by the Navy who wondered if they'd somehow get used on Navy fighter jets. The CIA offered $100,000 afterwards, not sure where else they may go. and we can take the argument from there--or I can let the rightwingers continue to argue, they tend to prove their own selves incorrect :). just b/c we teach a guerilla force how to fight, doesn't mean they can't take the lessons elsewhere in the world (funny, their memories just don't have a convenient "delete" key)...or that they can't simply teach the next generation what they learned. the idea behind taking down airliners first was tried on Pacific flights before being perfected for domestic ones.

the CIA calls getting bit in the ass, "blowback." Funny they'd have a term for something that doesn't exist...unless, apparently, it does.

modern islamic jihad, as we care to know it, could concievably begin with that first GWOT, during the Reagan administration, when terrorists in Europe all tried to name themselves some sort of "Red Army" and quoted the Palestinian cause. Their first target was Israel, until they decided maybe hitting the paymaster might not be a bad idea, and thru the 1980's servicemen were advised, "don't wear your uniforms on foriegn airlines, it will make you a target." Target for what? well, the terrorists claimed retribution for naval shelling of Beirut (but again, if you say American foriegn policy leads to a reaction, then that's "blaming America" party line).

before Iraq, the largest CIA op was Afganistan, to say they couldn't have stopped the ISI support if they wanted to is a little thin. Yes, ISI benefited by getting an armed force for Kashmir, and eventually a larger monster was created that the CIA did lose control over. but at the time of Cold War, it was sure handy to say, "those aren't our people, they're ISI's". and some of those camps naturally got built w/ the help of a big Saudi construction company with government contracts, y'all may have heard of it. (one of his sons, actually, in his manifesto for alQuada, said one of his goals was to get American troops out of the holy land. again, not to blame the US, but bush was kind enough to follow thru on the request.)

as for going into countries, it sure is funny how many in Africa rape and pillage, but when there's no oil to be found, only Medicins Sans Frontieres ever go in...but if the OP's theory was correct, we would have been all over Libya--their crude is light and sweet, and to die for (pun unfortunately intended). no sense letting the Chadians run in one more time.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 16
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/4/2014 2:18:52 PM
Do you care to read a clear and concise study by Kathy Manley and Stephen Downs May 2014 of Project SALAM and the National Coalition to Protect Civil Freedoms to see all the tricks the government uses to keep going with this outrageous campaign against "extremists"( against all of us really as we also are having our lives affected by their "war on terror").

There is a public download available from their site http://www.civilfreedoms.org/?p=16005

The 6th amendment is continually being used to cover the governments underhanded/criminal "war on terror" operations. We can't allow this to keep going.

"what are you going to do, when minority means you?"

for an introduction interview...

http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-910-inventing-terrorists-with-kathy-manley/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CorbettReportRSS+%28The+Corbett+Report%29

This should be on everyone's reading list, especially on this day... July 4th.

A patriot just might want to stand up and demand accountability (and change) to the tactics used against their fellow american's and themselves.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 17
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/9/2014 9:37:03 AM

Result? Iraq became unstable and tilted more towards Iran. A major foreign policy disaster.
Our only interest in Iraq was to rob them of their natural resources and wreak havoc on Muslims.

Result? More Muslim hate and intolerance here in the US ... millions of innocent civilians murdered for no good reason ... thousands of our military killed, maimed, mutilated ...

I personally have no problem with Iran helping ... if we're willing to do business with Karzai who has engaged in cordial relations with Iran as well), then we should also be cordial with Iran. Iran has helped to overthrow the Taliban (our "enemy"?) and has helped in the reconstruction of Afghanistan.

I find it interesting that Karzai was willing to let Iran help in Afghanistan but is now apparently making disparaging remarks about Iran. Hmmmm ... playing both sides against the middle?

I personally think that if Al Qaeda can get the US in a fight with Iran ... it'll kill two birds with one stone ... two (supposed) enemies will engage in a dogfight with each other ... and the only reason any of it is happening has become more and more apparent. Even in the 911 report it was clear that we are constantly under attack because of our support for the Zionists.

The price we pay to support the bullies of the Middle East ... billions more being poured into Israel so they can kill even more Palestinians ... more civil unrest in the Middle East ... we might as well be throwing the bombs on Gaza ... we bought and paid for them and sent them to Israel as well as the means of delivering them. Depriving the Palestinians of food or water or a way of life just doesn't suffice any more?
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 18
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/9/2014 11:02:12 AM

Depriving the Palestinians of food or water or a way of life just doesn't suffice any more?

Maybe if they spent less money on rockets, they'd have more to spend on food and water.

At some point, the Palestinians have to start taking responsibility for their own actions.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 19
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/9/2014 12:56:43 PM

Maybe if they spent less money on rockets, they'd have more to spend on food and water.
I seriously doubt they buy any rockets ... they don't have money being shoved up their ass for that the way the Zionists do.

At some point, the Palestinians have to start taking responsibility for their own actions.
It's a two-way street.

When you have IDF taking pot shots at you night and day (under orders), you're not going to be inclined to fall in love with the people who have been holding you captive (in the most cases) for your whole life.

It's no secret that the IDF goes out of their way to antagonize the people they have trapped and tortured for years. There are hundreds of IDF who now refuse to participate in that kind of repugnant behavior which has given the world an eye on what they're really up to.

http://electronicintifada.net/content/refuseniks-say-they-wont-attack-civilians/2676
Refuseniks’ say they won’t attack civilians

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-conscientious-objector-to-refuse-idf-service-for-8th-time.premium-1.512882
Israeli conscientious objector to refuse IDF service for 8th time

Walls trap Palestinians away from their land. Checkpoints keep Palestinians from desperately needed healthcare. Towns are denied access to life-saving water ... I think that can qualify for "antagonizing" at the least ... more like abysmal and appalling behavior.

http://www.ngo-monitor.org/data/images/File/Amnesty_water_112.pdf
Pages 7 - 12 are quite interesting ... try not to get thirsty reading about it.

Human frustrations run over and at some point, it's just human nature to react to such repulsive actions. We all know that. I wonder what the death ratio is.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
If Americans Knew - What every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine

What is disgusting to a lot of us ... is that we support that to the tune of billions and billions. We might as well be turning that water off, killing those people in the ambulances being held at checkpoints on purpose, stopping those people from working their land and feeding their families. We contribute to that immensely. And 911 was one of the paybacks.

The Zionists actively bulldoze Palestinian homes with the occupants in them. If the occupants try to leave, they're shot. I simply can't imagine having to eventually live through such a horrific experience. I lost my son almost 9 years ago and cannot possibly imagine what it must be like to lose an entire branch of my family just because they happened to be at home at the same time and a captor decided they wanted their land for their plush green settlement.
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/11/06/333261/zionists-continuing-expansionist-plan/
Israel continuing expansionist plan with impunity

We antagonize nation after nation with our killing sprees. How many Muslim Iraqis were killed in our quest to steal their natural resources? How many were maimed and mutilated? How many have been poisoned by our use of illegal DU bombs? For that matter, how many of our military did we poison in that way?

This film tells a lot! Watch it.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/peace-propaganda-and-the-promised-land/
 whippedboi
Joined: 3/12/2013
Msg: 20
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/9/2014 1:25:32 PM
these debates about who is "More right", Israel or Palestinians remind me of debates between devout persons of faith & atheists, lots of screaming, both go away more convinced than ever that they are right and always were..
no-one ever changes their mind..
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 21
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/9/2014 2:21:34 PM

I seriously doubt they buy any rockets ... they don't have money being shoved up their ass for that the way the Zionists do.

You're absolutly right - I don't know what I could possibly have been thinking.

They don't buy rockets. They automatically appear under their pillows, delivered by the tooth fairy, 'cause they keep loosing their teeth because of a lack of dental. Or maybe the tooth fairy doesn't exist, and she's just an invention in a Zionist plot to suck even more money from the Palestinians for dental care.

It's a two-way street.

Yes, it is - and it would be a lot easier to believe that you actually meant it if your postings weren't so one-sided and virulent. I don't think I've ever seen you post anything that didn't paint the the Palestinians as total innocents, or the Israeli's as anything other than evil.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 22
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/10/2014 10:12:40 AM
I don't take this lightly because I consider it to be a critically important issue of our day. We continue to alienate people and other nations and then want to cry in our beer that the US is so hated. Well, no one likes a bully and that's what we are. We support the bully of the Middle East ... something we created.

For those who have not gone to see just what the death ratio is ...
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Chart showing that just since 09/29/2000, 131 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,526 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.
So as of 14 years ago, around 12 Palestinian children for every 1 Israeli child.

Chart showing that just since 09/29/2000, 6 times more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis.
1,110 Israelis and at least 6,878 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.
Wow … 6 times more Palestinians killed. Looks like the Israelis are making good use of all those lovely weapons we send them.

Chart showing that just since 09/29/2000, only 50 Israelis and 55,933 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.
More than 1000 times more Palestinians have been injured? I wonder if the IDF is gonna run out of ammunition any time soon? Nah … the US will accommodate them. See below …

Daily U.S. Military Aid to Israel and the Palestinians Fiscal Year 2013
Chart showing that alone during Fiscal Year 2013, the U.S. provided Israel with at least $8.5 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians.
I wonder how many American children could be fed with $8.5 million per day.

UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians 1955 - 1992
Israel has been targeted by at least 77 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by 1.


Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees
Chart showing that Israel is holding 5,271 Palestinians prisoner while 0 Israelis are possibly being held prisoner by Palestinians.


Current Illegal Settlements on the Other’s Land
Israel currently has 262 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.


We just continue to antagonize more and more … and we wonder why they want to harm us?
 NotGorshkovAgain
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 23
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Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 7/10/2014 4:05:10 PM

So as of 14 years ago, around 12 Palestinian children for every 1 Israeli child.


Wow … 6 times more Palestinians killed. Looks like the Israelis are making good use of all those lovely weapons we send them.


More than 1000 times more Palestinians have been injured? I wonder if the IDF is gonna run out of ammunition any time soon? Nah … the US will accommodate them. See below …

Horrible numbers (and I don't dispute them). But they don't tell the whole story.
The Palestinian rockets are aimed at cites - CIVILIAN targets. They're not even TRYING to hit military targets. Their intent is to kill as many Israelis as possible - period, full stop. They are incredibly accurate - no better than a WWII dumb bomb dropped from a bomber flying at 20,000 feet. So even if they ARE "aiming" at something military, the odds of them actually hitting it are slim to none.

The Israelis are trying to take out military targets - to wit, the missile launching sites, missile storage, weapons workshops, etc. There's only one small problem - the Palestinians INTENTIONALLY place those facilities in residential neighborhoods, place anti-aircraft positions on the top of schools, etc. Why? As attempt to defend - the hope is that the Israelis won't attack for fear of said civilian causalities. If they do anyway, it's a bonus - they've lost their misses, but now have a propaganda coup.

The Israelis also use smart bombs, which are incredibly accurate - they will land within a few meters of their target 90% of the time, and have much smaller explosive warheads than traditional dumb bombs - which serves to reduce the damage to things that are NOT the target to as little as possible.

So, the Israelis have a choice - they only way they can NOT inflict civilian casualties is by not defending themselves in the first place. I don't think even you would suggest that that don't have that right, cotter. But since they ARE defending themselves, they go out of their way to reduce the causalities as much as possible.

Now - where does the fault lie? Does it lie with the Israelis, who are trying to defend themselves - or with the Palestinians, who INTENTIONALLY put their population in harms way, hoping that it will protect their "brave" warriors?

Bottom line: when you try to fight using women and children as a suit of armor , you loose the right to complain if they get killed.


I wonder how many American children could be fed with $8.5 million per day.

I wonder how many Palestinians children could be fed with the money that is spent on smuggling rockets & rocket parts. It's not as one-sided as you suggest.

UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians 1955 - 1992

How many since 1990, when the Berlin Wall came down, and the cold war "officially ended" A: 1, since rescinded.
I have no doubt on the number of Security Council resolutions, but I have no reason to believe that those numbers would not be equally skewed - The western powers don't tend to use their vetos as often as the Soviets/Russia or China
.
Israel has been targeted by at least 77 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by 1.
Which has a lot to do with how the UN operates. 45.9% - almost HALF - of all resolutions passed by the UN Human Rights Council condemn Israel - but Israel is a long way away from being the worst civil rights violator in the world. You're talking about 3rd-world politics, not reality.


Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees
Chart showing that Israel is holding 5,271 Palestinians prisoner while 0 Israelis are possibly being held prisoner by Palestinians.

"Political Prisoners"? REALLY?
When you are put in jail because of what you think, or for peaceful protest, you are political prisoner. When you are put in jail because you've been firing rockets into another country, or planting roadside bombs, or trying to walk onto a public bus while wearing an explosive vest, you are being jailed for WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, not your political beliefs.

Current Illegal Settlements on the Other’s Land
Israel currently has 262 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.

NO argument here. Bottom line, it's dumb, it's stupid, it's needlessly provocative, and serves no purpose other than to piss off the Palestinians. This is one thing I DO fault the Israelis for. I lay the blame there on the Israeli political system which makes it impossible to form a government without the support of some of the very conservative, right-wing religious parties.

We just continue to antagonize more and more … and we wonder why they want to harm us?

I really like how you seem to gloss over the fact that throwing a couple of thousand rockets into another country is also just a wee bit antagonistic.

Like I said before - it's not nearly as one-sided as you suggest.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 24
Alienation of Anti Extremist Forces in Islamic World
Posted: 4/19/2016 9:31:29 AM
Not bright to bring a rock or a knife to a gunfight..unless you WANT to "lose"..have people killed, as an Israeli soldier or cop shoots a knife attacker..that way you can gain sympathy and have Western liberals, especially Jew-haters, cry over it and lobby against Israel.
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