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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 usernonymous
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 1
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)Page 1 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I think it's bunk. Obama, like all politicians, don't want to have a conversation, they aren't having one with the gun control issue. All politicians want to do is put their face in front of the cameras and please their base with the notion that they are doing something.

The truth is that the Micheal Brown story isn't the issue, the issue is much larger than him, or even the relationship between the Black community and Police. The shooting is the end of the story. What is more important is the beginning and the middle that leads to the end.

If you want to have an "honest" conversation, both sides need to sit down and lay out all they feel and there has to be some sort of forum where ideas and plans can be formed.
The purpose of a "Conversation" isn't to get things off your chest, it's to find a solution to a problem.

Things like Body cameras, community policing, surplus military gear isn't the conversation. It should be more like "why does many of the violent crimes happen in the inner city?"

The issues should be around The family structure, the poor government services to help the poor, lack of emphasis on education, drug addiction.

The conversations need to be non-judgmental, two-way and moderated by someone who can help frame a project to alleviate the situation.

While I have libertarian leanings, I found that the two people's views I agreed with were liberals. One is Pharell Williams (the singer) and the other was David Brooks of the NY Times.

Here is some quotes from Meet the Press:


DAVID BROOKS:

Listen, we all have to have a new social compact on this. Whites especially have to acknowledge the legacy of racism and have to go the extra yard to show respect, understand how differently whites and blacks see some of these police issues. And whites can't just say, "Does this look right to me?" But, "Does this look trustworthy in the African American community?"

That has to be the standard. At the same time, we have to understand that we're no longer in the civil rights era. This is not a question of good versus evil, right versus wrong. Racial inequality has become entangled in all sorts of domestic problems of disappearing jobs, family structure, and this is mostly a question of good-intentioned people trying to do the best they can with very naughty social problems, which now overlap with racial problems.

DAVID BROOKS (on the Obama's call for a "conversation"):

Yeah, I really don't believe in the conversation about race. If we're going to be friends, we don't sit around saying, "Oh, we're such great friends, let's talk about our friendship." We don't need a conversation, we need a project. And a friendship is about s omething else. It's outward looking. So the project has to be about social mobility.

It's about early childhood education, all the things that failed Michael Brown. Family formation, jobs, if we have a common project about the Harlem Children's Zone, about KIPP schools, then we'll have something to do together. And that will unite us obliquely.

CHUCK TODD (referring to Pharrell Williams):

You know, Professor Ogletree, it was interesting, Pharrell Williams, who's got that song that we all love, Happy, he said something in a interview with Ebony when he said, he was talking about Michael Brown. And he said this, "It looked very bullyish. That in itself I had a problem with. Not with the kid, but with whatever happened in his life for him to arrive at a place where that behavior is okay."

Why aren't we talking about that? Are focusing on the wrong part of this conversation? We're talking law enforcement and the relationship between the black community and the law enforcement community, when we obviously had a breakdown somewhere in Michael Brown's life.

I found that little snippet from a show I'm not a huge fan off to be a revelation and the GROUND FLOOR to getting this "conversation" started.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 2
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/2/2014 12:30:40 PM
Your post contains many well-considered, thoughtful, and meaningful suggestions.
Lots of excellent ideas in what you have shared above. I concur with many of them.
 cold_coffee
Joined: 8/5/2014
Msg: 3
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/2/2014 7:07:34 PM
Let me get my checkbook.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 4
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 6:22:50 AM
Give em inches.There are people that go to food banks that have money for alcohol and cannabis every single day.
 L_LuuLuu
Joined: 8/2/2009
Msg: 5
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Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 11:57:14 AM
Time for "dialog" on race relations has long passed.

Whites already aware that the "dialogue" will entail them being shouted down and forced to hear the same monologue that drones on and on without ceasing.

Just let us know what we owe blacks an apology for this time. And then, we'll cut you another check.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 6
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Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 1:45:15 PM
As long as there are teabaggers and republicans who can't accept that a "black family" lives in their precious White House, I don't see much productive coming out of any conversation that might happen.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 7
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 2:09:14 PM
Back in the early 90's when I was at university, enough people raised the issue of "rape culture" that the administration decided to have an hour-long disussion on this and two other subjects, along with a Q&A. Do the math, and you knew walking in that meant 15 minutes for every subject--enough time to discuss the presence of a problem (which most knew, and those who don't know don't want to see it) and zero time to get into, "how do we solve it". Plenty of institutions still want to move slowly from, "let's admit there's a problem" to "let's discuss solving the problem" to eventually, "let's discuss how we'll carry that out." a few sacred cows have to be moved to the slaughterhouse ramp.

It took a century to create the stereotypes and prejudice, it'll take a while to get rid of it. Go to India and Pakistan, research the friction between the Muslims and the Hindus, or between tribes. We aren't the only ones who turn to violence. so after we agree to actually do something about the problem...then we have to do that something. like the song says, once we know what to teach, its time to "teach the children well".

Get rid of the racism, you pull away some of the obstructions of progress. But how much poverty disappears in our modern economy, as entry level jobs get replaced not by immigrants but by cheap computers? If a group remains poor, does some of the stereotypes against them return in the minds of the oppressor? will there be, "I told you so!"? the industries that profit from people too poor to pay the bill so they get hit with fees....if racism is gone and so is your credit score, does all the work matter?

As any teacher will tell you, a student who doesn't want to learn...doesn't invest in themself. We can lead the horse to water, but it still has to want to drink, and intellectual laziness knows no skin color. It isn't going to be one thing that has to change for real change to occur over generations. a lot of people are in that middle space you spoke of.

fighting the blatent racism--the separate water fountains, etc--is still easier than rooting out the subtle racism that hides in the shadows. Its hard to say, "did you hire John over Jamail for a reason other than experience?" and be sure you're getting the honest answer.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 8
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 3:17:38 PM
@gto
Let's say we take an example of how two groups were characterised during the forties.People would say that Germans lived to work and Italians worked to live.Germans identified with a race and Italians identified with a nationality.I'm just tossing these as examples of differences in people.
Do you remember any of the old people that lived through the depression era feeling that handouts made people weak?Liberal solutions seem to be the only ones too many people are reaching for.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 9
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Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 3:45:04 PM
Message 7 ...
Get rid of the racism, you pull away some of the obstructions of progress.
Well, if they get rid of the racism, it will mean they won't have as many votes to suppress, but that'll just mean they have more time to pick on the poor and women.

It won't mean that the teabaggers will cut back on voter suppression of the black or minorities either, because a lot of those people will still qualify as targets since we all know many are poor. Hmmm ... double jeopardy ... eh?

Nope ... it's gonna take more than just getting rid of racism ... because you also have to factor in that you're talking about changing some of our most influential citizens' religious beliefs. That takes thousands of years ... thousands. In that case, gay "racism" is relatively new ... it's a baby compared to the ingrained racism existing in some of our "older" religions.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 10
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 4:13:54 PM
^^^^
Cotter what would make you think that racism will ever disappear? Did it disappear in South Africa with one man one vote?And a black majority that votes 100 percent ANC?Is South Africa improving?Because some people appear to be on a lemming march for just such a scenario.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 11
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Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 4:48:40 PM
Message 10 ...

Well, if they get rid of the racism ..
Cotter what would make you think that racism will ever disappear?
My statement was stated as an "if".

I personally don't believe it will ever disappear. We can dream, but we can't ever expect everyone to walk down the road of life and see it from our eyes Racists would hope that non-racists would see it from their eyes, but those of us who have gotten past the racism simply just can't look back ... we can't go back and it becomes a dream, a hope, that others will eventually see the light.

We are too many now and we are no longer isolated countries with limited transportation and movements just don't happen anymore from marches of protest or sit-downs. Families are divided in this ... my own family is a good example. My older sister is clearly a racist and claims to be a born-again Xtrian. My ex-husband is a racist and claims to be a non-believer.

We're products of our environment and make adult choices. My sister made an "adult" choice to be a racist after she was raised not to be a racist. My ex-husband was raised racist and continues to be one.

It would help if the religions could start by promoting more open-minded ideas ... but that will take a long, long, time and the world really doesn't have that much time anymore in order to peacefully live among the diversity we have created just by being smart and learning to travel really far and long distances very quickly.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 12
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 5:00:39 PM
We have a President, an Attorney General and Al Sharpton, to just name three, that only want to incite.
Like Minister Gentry has pointed out, blacks(whites and any other color can be included in his words) need a check up from the neck up.

Benjamin Watsons words. Google this black mans words. AWESOME!

Sherriff David Clarke on Al Sharpton and Holder and Farrakhan...Google it. (Clarke is a DEMOCRAT) ...AWESOME!

And on top of the liberal BS on here we have the emoticon posters and the lol"s screaming it is because their is a black man in the White House. These racist liberal posters should probably listen and hear what the three above black men have to say. But they won't, their brains are already frozen to hatred.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 13
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 8:56:58 PM
Skoochie, you continually skip past facts, you continually skip pas t what honest black people are saying and all you have is no one is listening to Obama......Look at the blacks who disagree and tell me please where they are going wrong? The ones I have mentioned? You can't so you avoid. That is all our answers to how you really feel and that is you could care less the real issues going on. Carry on
 __TEXASCHICK__
Joined: 11/9/2011
Msg: 14
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Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/3/2014 9:11:04 PM
I find it offensive when the President manages to make a fuss over the shooting death of a young black man committing a crime, however does not do same for a young white man.

Just my thoughts
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 15
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/4/2014 3:57:56 AM
There can never be intelligent conversation until intelligence first enters the room.

Examples of this are prevalent and very obvious when it come to threads just like this. One of the hardest things to do is to look in our mirrors and admit what we see. Until this can happen, most are just happy to listen to themselves speak. Again, lots of examples of this in some of these threads.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 16
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/4/2014 5:44:19 AM
@Walts
And intelligence cannot enter the room until you give up on the fixation that writing a check for a trillion dollars and giving into everything that people whine for will result in some kind of magical world.Whether its blacks in America or natives in Canada you feel the solution is to just give them stuff.Homelessness? Plenty of homes to be taken over in Detroit lie in ruins.Native reserves?Houses get trashed and replaced how often?Liberals have no viable solutions.Coddling people does not help.Get a job and don't spend your money on fast food,alcohol and drugs for starters.then make an effort to be a father to your children instead of attempting to impregnate every woman you see.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 17
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/4/2014 5:53:41 AM

And on top of the liberal BS on here we have the emoticon posters and the lol"s screaming it is because their is a black man in the White House. These racist liberal posters should probably listen and hear what the three above black men have to say. But they won't, their brains are already frozen to hatred.


Why did you leave out the old white racist men who spend all day watching Fox news quoting Uncle Ruckus and yelling at clouds?



p.s. "their is" should be "there is" , but do not worry I can only assume it was a very cloudy day.
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 18
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/4/2014 6:09:14 AM
"p.s. "their is" should be "there is"
________________________________________________________________________________
^^^^My mistake. Thank you for making that a part of your post. It shows you have nothing to add. You are another liberal avoiding what is really happening.
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 19
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/4/2014 7:17:14 AM

^^^^My mistake. Thank you for making that a part of your post. It shows you have nothing to add.


Thanks for going out of your way to let me know you have nothing to add to my nothing to add.




You are another liberal avoiding what is really happening.


Yeah yeah we know, birth-certificate / Benghazi / Ebola / death panels / war on christmas etc, we get it, you are afraid and scared.


Conservatives Are Weak Terrified P*ssies

The Young Turks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Mgum60VGg&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&feature=share&index=7
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 20
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History
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/5/2014 5:49:18 AM
LOL....love it,tough talk on the internet....nobody is afraid of you or your kind,you get your way by hiding behind the bully of big government because it is the only way you can.
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 21
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/5/2014 6:24:57 AM

You are another liberal avoiding what is really happening.

Aj, I am curious to know what you think is "really happening."
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 22
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/6/2014 10:00:46 AM

Like Minister Gentry has pointed out, blacks(whites and any other color can be included in his words) need a check up from the neck up.

Benjamin Watsons words. Google this black mans words. AWESOME!

Sherriff David Clarke on Al Sharpton and Holder and Farrakhan...Google it. (Clarke is a DEMOCRAT) ...AWESOME!

If you look up Clarke, you will see that he ran as a Dem to get the job but does not identify with either (or any) party.

Anyway, my problem with these three gentlemen is that their central solution to all this is to "get right with Jesus." The problem with that is that people in the US have "gotten right with Jesus" for centuries-- both slaves and their owners were "right with Jesus." The Jim Crow south is known as "the Bible Belt." Yet here we are now in our race relations despite that history of devotion to Christianity-- perhaps even because of!
 etourdi65
Joined: 8/20/2014
Msg: 23
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/7/2014 9:19:24 AM
Really..so out of over 13 million arrests and millions more interactions less than a tenth of a percent end badly for the criminal...yet you believe that riots and protests are justified ..you are full of it .. What do a majority of the people who were hurt or killed by police have in common.. Here's a hint its not skin color. They were breaking or were thought to be breaking a law...you don't know what is happening..
When a segment of society commits a disproportionate amount of violent crime..you cry racism because police increase their presence in the areas where that segment resides..
It sucks when criminals are killed by cops...but there is no real evidence that their race was a factor...the cop in the garner case did not intend to kill the suspect..if had he would have shot him...all you tough libs act like you know about physical altercations...how long does it take to choke someone out? It takes seconds...what happened to garner was not a choke it was a combination of factors pressure on his neck and wind pipe compression of his rib cage etc...plus his prexisting physical conditions..it looks bad on tape but no one intended to kill him and there was no excessive force used..he resisted arrests they constrained him...you guys don't know crap about submission techniques...
 HFX_RGB
Joined: 7/26/2014
Msg: 24
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/7/2014 11:47:39 AM

They were breaking or were thought to be breaking a law...you don't know what is happening..


Exactly, which is why african American men are stopped with the same frequency as whites, because otherwise if cops where just stopping random people to frisk them or ask them questions we would not have this situation.




what happened to garner was not a choke it was a combination of factors pressure on his neck and wind pipe compression of his rib cage etc...


Yeah kids he only blocked off the air, so totally not a choke.




you guys don't know crap about submission techniques..


Oh no, we got a ufc wanna be over here.
 calguy14
Joined: 8/17/2014
Msg: 25
Obama's call for a Conversation around race relations (and the police)
Posted: 12/7/2014 3:45:07 PM
@skoochie

So every time the cops confront a man with a gun they should just talk it over with the guy?The cops had no way of knowing what the guy was up to with a handgun,only that he had been waving it at people.the orange marker on the tip of the barrel had been removed....for the reason of?


@brandished
Yes its questionable that ems didn't attempt to revive him.Somebody should ask.Maybe ask the black officer in charge at the scene.

Edit
Skooch,I thought libs were against the concept of gun ownership,real or not.Maybe just play guns to keep people happy?
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