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 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 1
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Independence VS InterdependancePage 1 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
So was thinking about this the other day.....

For me, if I want a relationship then I have to learn how to be inTERdependent rather than independent.
What that means is trusting that my partner is capable of making good decisions in my absence, and that sometimes, I can put down the 'yoke of responsibility' and HE will pick it up voluntarily and carry it for a while....

That doesn't in any way mean that I lose the ability to survive on my own, but it's more that I allow myself to NEED someone else and recognize that not only do I no longer have to do it all alone, but that someone else may actually do it better!!! Whatever the 'it' may be....

One of the MAIN things that I've heard from men at the end of relationships is that they never felt like I 'needed' them...It was explained that I was rarely if ever, vulnerable, and they often felt like if they left my Life tomorrow that I would probably not miss them much....That seemed to make them feel..extraneous and superfluous... and I realized that was my self-protection, as whenever I 'needed' anybody, they went away.....
So if I never needed anyone, stands to reason that I wouldn't be emotionally devastated if/when they left....

What does interdependence mean to you? Do you believe that it is something that is necessary to a relationship?

Just curious what folks think about this....
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 2
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 3:56:52 PM
The best representation of the unity that (hopefully) comes through marriage is when the couple participates in the candle lighting ceremony: the couple starts with a lit candle each representing their individuality and together they light a larger brighter candle. Once the larger candle is lit and burning bright the couple then sets their STILL lit candle near but not prominent to the larger candle. The symbolism is that the couple is bigger and more important than the individuals, but that the individuals are still essential. When I see some ceremonies in which the couple blow out their individual candles i want to jump out of my seat and protest.
The individuals are still there, the relationship is synergistic not oppressive.
Proverbs 31 shows that the expectation of the husband and wife as equally important and each having supportive roles.

TK
 LadyEssKay
Joined: 2/13/2015
Msg: 3
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 4:04:25 PM
I am not a person to ask for help (to a crazy degree - I will try to move furniture up and down stairs myself) so its a bit of a struggle to be interdependent. When I am in a relationship, I do try to make sure he knows he is needed, but I have to actually make a conscious effort to do so. It's not because I don't think he can do things, or that he can't make good decisions, but because I'm just used to doing it myself, and therefore, to have someone do something that I can do myself, makes me feel like a burden of sorts. But I do really appreciate when he takes the initiative and just does it (except if he attempts to do my laundry. I get really twitchy with that, because I like it done a certain way :)). I dated a man who loved to cook and he was incredibly talented in it. He would insist that he do everything, but there I was, like a bloody gnat, in the kitchen every 5 minutes, asking if he needed help. But once the meal was done, I was very appreciative and made absolutely certain that he knew that I appreciated it.

The question is, how does one break this habit, without the interdependence becoming dependent?
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 4
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 4:21:45 PM

When I see some ceremonies in which the couple blow out their individual candles i want to jump out of my seat and protest.


Me too!!!! Omg, first time I saw a Catholic ceremony they did that, and I was just a kid! I STILL thought there was something just NOT right about that.....

Ladyess....

That's pretty much what I'm talking about, just allowing the other person the 'room' to help or to jump into the leadership role for a bit....
I think and from what I've seen with long-time married couples, some it actually is more on the dependent side....My own mother wouldn't drive although she could and had a valid license....But it was clear that it was a 'dependence' that worked for them....

For me it the difficulty comes when I'm in the position of NOT having to make all of the big decisions , and here I'm talking we are at a stage where we are living together at least. Having dome everything myself for SO long, it's difficult to just say ,"You take care of it...", although I have done that and will do it, because when you get right down to it, the ONLY person who believes that YOU'RE indispensable, is YOU....
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 5
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 4:37:32 PM
Dee4166- Good question, food for thought for sure.
It depends on the people/person involved.
No two people are the same.
What works for some couples/people, will not work for others.
I gave TOO much in my marriage, it finally set in that he wanted to be babied and waited on and I just wasn't going to do it anymore.
However, even though I will NEVER do that again, that type of marriage works for some people.
Sometimes it's the man who gives, sometimes it's the woman.
It led to discontent for me, but if it works for them, then more power to them.
More than anything, communication is key.
I can't say I went wrong NOT saying anything, I did, BELIEVE me. He just didn't listen or believe I would leave because I taught him to do so by staying.
I take MY part of the responsibility in that.
I learned that in addition to speaking your mind and saying clearly what you want and need, you have to take enough time to make sure that the other person is self respecting enough to respect someone else.
There's also trust and listening, caring.
Ideally, and this is JMO, BOTH people give, both people take and yet still maintain who they are individually.
It isn't easy, but I think it's possible.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 6
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 6:27:03 PM
Learning to say or accept "No" as in, "that doesn't work for me" helps tremendously. If your ex's had a problem with you saying this or them saying it to you, that is something they have to work on.

Also try to remember most people LIKE to help others and many hands make light work so feel free to ask AND accept "No" or "Yes" for an answer.

It's only if you are in the habit of asking others without first trying, that you are cheating yourself of the experience and/or using them...or need to get stronger.
 Literate_Hiker
Joined: 1/1/2015
Msg: 7
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 7:51:31 PM
It depends on whether interdependence is healthy or unhealthy.

Co-dependent: addicted, hooked, unhealthily attached, slavish trust.

Cooperative: collegial, united, harmonious, reciprocal, agreeing, team, collaborative.

Reciprocal: connected, dependent, give-and-take, united, interactive, returned.

I want healthy, cooperative, reciprocal interdependence in a relationship.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 8
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 8:28:08 PM
What an excellent thread subject. Thank you for opening this.

I think this is one of the most fundamental of areas of concern and of confusion in human relationships. It was certainly a repeating problematic theme during my youth, and I still see many people at my current age struggling with it.

One of the prime confusions, comes in mixing up or conflating "need" with "devotion," or with "dedication." Especially when young, a LOT of people think that it is the height of romanticism to proclaim that they "need" their mate. People write songs, and very bad movie scripts repeating it, to the point where even now, people chatter on about "needing" each other, as though it's a positive thing to be in need.

I myself came to view talk of "needs" as a nearly pure negative, particularly in the area of romance. It is a sort of "poor man's substitute" for other things which people value in a relationship. In fear that one will be left behind, the idea that they are "needed" can seem to be like a guarantee of sorts. If you "need" me, then you will not leave me, even if I falter.

The trouble is, I have found, that 'need,' inevitably triggers resentment. And it makes deception and even cheating more likely rather than less so. This is why it is so common to read or hear people proclaiming that they cheated on their mate, because they "needed" more affection than they were getting from them.

Again, especially when young, I have seen people try to create a sense of need between themselves, again in order to firm up the bonds between themselves. The words "independence" and "interdependence" are very often misused or misunderstood in light of this. The phrase "I can depend on you" can be used to mean "I desperately need you," but it can also mean more positive things, such as "I can rely on you" or "I can trust you."

Similarly, "independence" has often been taken to mean something other than being able to take care of oneself. Too often, people declare their "independence" within a relationship, but what they mean is that they are going to refuse to pay any heed to the other person's sensibilities, especially emotional ones. That kind of "independence" is extremely destructive.

One of the biggest common mistakes people make, is to try to artificially create a sense of need between themselves, as a romantic gesture, or as a sort of negotiated treaty. Believing it is NECESSARY to "need" each other, they create artificial needs. One might even stop taking proper care of themselves, and try to turn the other into a sort of spurious parent, since that's a "need" scenario they are familiar with. We see the classic old-fashioned Hollywood tales, where the woman pretends to be physically helpless, and to need the firm guidance of the man, while the man pretends to be inept in supposedly "womanly" things like cooking.

All of that is why I have finally determined that I shall never try to build a relationship on mutual "need" again. I want my last and greatest mate to be someone I want to be with, who just wants to be with me. Not who needs me, and not who I need. We will each be quite 'independent.' But we will also be committed, devoted, and reliable for each other. We will not choose to set aside pleasures and lusts of the moment because we are 'interdependent.' We will do so because we actively do, and want to, care for each other.
 xlr8ingme
Joined: 3/16/2015
Msg: 9
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 8:48:13 PM
I think far too many of us have become so independent, that we forgot how to become interdependent. Are any of us willing to give up enough control of our lives to have a healthy interdependent relationship? That might just scare the tar out of some. A committed relationship requires much more than interdependence, and trust to thrive. It requires unconditional love. Maybe that's why so many of us on this site are still here single years after year. We refuse to give up enough control to another human being, to discover what unconditional love is all about.
 LadyEssKay
Joined: 2/13/2015
Msg: 10
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/30/2015 8:54:48 PM

One of the biggest common mistakes people make, is to try to artificially create a sense of need between themselves, as a romantic gesture, or as a sort of negotiated treaty. Believing it is NECESSARY to "need" each other, they create artificial needs. One might even stop taking proper care of themselves, and try to turn the other into a sort of spurious parent, since that's a "need" scenario they are familiar with. We see the classic old-fashioned Hollywood tales, where the woman pretends to be physically helpless, and to need the firm guidance of the man, while the man pretends to be inept in supposedly "womanly" things like cooking.


So Igor, what would you suggest to people like Dee, who has actually been told that the other person didn't feel needed? She didn't try to artificially create a sense of need, but yet they ended the relationship for that reason. And it's not the first time I have heard of that happening. I've heard that from many men. How do you differentiate between a legitimate need, versus an artificial one? And what if one of the needs is to feel needed?

Maybe I'm not really equating what feeling needed is to a man.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 11
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 12:04:20 AM
One of the MAIN things that I've heard from men at the end of relationships is that they never felt like I 'needed' them...
--------------------------------
Maybe they just weren't very good at anything and weren't dependable enough to trust them to do something.

Being independent doesn't mean doing everything yourself though. It means you have choices and aren't going to implode if someone screws up. People who go out of their way to say they are independent almost always are not.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 12
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 4:51:26 AM

So Igor, what would you suggest to people like Dee, who has actually been told that the other person didn't feel needed? She didn't try to artificially create a sense of need, but yet they ended the relationship for that reason. And it's not the first time I have heard of that happening. I've heard that from many men. How do you differentiate between a legitimate need, versus an artificial one? And what if one of the needs is to feel needed?

Maybe I'm not really equating what feeling needed is to a man.


I think that most people who claim that they want to feel "needed," are actually trying to say something else. That's where the real problem lies.

I suspect that most of the time, someone who says they want to feel "needed," actually means that they want it to matter more to you that they are there, than that whatever else is going on, happens. They know, for example, that you don't really NEED them there to watch a movie. The movie will roll no matter what, and that you can see it fine whether they are there or not. They just want the whole point to you, to be that the two of you see it together, and not that it gets seen.

An extremely closely related relationship complaint, is to say "he/she didn't make room for me in their life." That is trying to describe exactly the same thing, and it's often the subject of confusing scenarios where someone just getting together with you admires your abilities in some area, but after you are together for a while, they complain about you doing the exact same things in the exact same way that they previously admired.

The solution to that mystery isn't to pretend that you can no longer perform the task without their help, that sort of "making people feel needed" makes things much worse, because they know you are faking it, which is downright insulting. The solution, if there is one, is going to be much more subtle. It could be that as you are performing the task, that you are adjusting how you go about it to account for the fact that your mate is there. In cooking, you alter WHAT you cook, to include their dietary concerns and their level of hunger at the moment, instead of plowing on with what you wanted to cook anyway.

Each aspect of relating has it's own possible conundrums to it. But the main point is, that the use of the word "need," often serves to more confuse things, rather than to clarify them.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 13
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:32:44 AM
According to Wikipedia....

Interdependence:
In relationships, interdependence is the degree to which members of the group are mutually dependent on the others. This concept differs from a dependent relationship, where some members are dependent and some are not.

In an interdependent relationship, participants may be emotionally, economically, ecologically and/or morally reliant on and responsible to each other. An interdependent relationship can arise between two or more cooperative autonomous participants (e.g. a co-op). Some people advocate freedom or independence as the ultimate good; others do the same with devotion to one's family, community, or society. Interdependence can be a common ground between these aspirations.


Just so we all have the correct definition.....

@Vicky...why do you feel that stopped between yourself and your husband when you had kids?
Do you not anticipate ever being in another live-in relationship? Is that why you say that isn't something that you look for or want now?

I don't really have that issue so much anymore of guy's telling me that I don't need them enough...but once upon a time, it very much WAS an issue. And you hit the nail on the head with the 'nurturing' syndrome....Seems they were largely attracted initially at my 'capability' and confidence, and were ultimately put off by the very same thing....As Igor pointed out happens, quite frequently, ime....

The VERY thing that attracts you, is the VERY thing that you end up hating the most, for some people...

I learned how to be more appreciative of their efforts, and to say so, and I also learned how to let go of certain situations....

One I remember was when there was a snowstorm and my b/f was trying to start his car, and no go....

I've always owned second hand cars and while no expert, I DID make sure that I knew enough to NOT get ripped off by a garage....I also learned how to do basic maintenance and repairs, ie. change battery, oil and brake pads, fix a flat change a tire, etc.
Any way, long story short, it was clear that the alternator wasn't charging the battery and he insisted that it was the battery. Ended up staying out side and getting I think it was 3 boosts, before some guy who was there, said HE thought it was the alternator, and my b/f 'magically' heard him....

I had the good grace to keep my mouth shut!!! LOL

So yeah, now, I've learned that sometimes I have to let someone figure it out for themselves, even though I know better....But when he turned to me and said that he was SO glad that guy came along and helped him, I almost spontaneously combusted!!! LOL


Never said a thing though, other than 'Yeah, good thing!'.....
So now, if he mows the lawn or buys the groceries, I've learned that a lot of praise is really what's being asked for, not so much a feeling of being needed....It's really been more about being and feeling appreciated.

I don't necessarily get that back in kind though, as it seems like a lot of guys want to feel that your world would end if they weren't in it...and so, I have a tendency to not ask a lot, or even clue them in to all that I actually do....
As well as the fact that I would never be able to just lay down and die should ANYBODY leave my Life....
There's an awful lot of people who are no longer in my Life that I thought that I would never be able to live without...Yet here I still am...and many of them are now long gone....
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 14
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 6:39:29 AM

What does interdependence mean to you? Do you believe that it is something that is necessary to a relationship?


Absolutely. I was in a relationship with a bipolar that could drown in a glass of water. I had to constantly bale her out, to the point that it became toxic. If I did not give her money for her to do her nails and hair she would then dive into a deep negative depression and take everyone down with her. I became what is called a codependent. I lived my life waiting of the other shoe to drop, were my needs were not being served and anything I did for her was not good enough.

I exited that relationship and went into a relationship were there were no fights and we were both happily and completely independent, unfortunately that lead to feelings of alienation or that maybe love was not there. She dumb me. She was the smarter of the two for identifying what was wrong.

Then I met my girlfriend. She has two boys. She realizes that men are important in bringing up boys. She also likes how I can take control of a situation and give it my style. Our sexual life is so rich and at the same time so spiritual that we send each other texts mid morning telling each other how much we love each other.

She dotes on me, I dote on her. In my book we have reach a state of interdependence. I can bounce her something that happened to me and instead of panicking or running for the hills, she provides me with feedback that is accurate and helpful. She realizes as well that we both need sometimes our space, our private moment. For me, it's a time I can devote to writing my new novel. For her to decompress.
 Fire_and_Ice4_You
Joined: 10/28/2014
Msg: 15
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 7:28:04 AM
Igor....When I read your comments on your current relationship....I visualize Tom Cruise's infamous ..."couch jumping"...

What does interdependence mean to you?

For me....the word "interpendence" ( must be a new buzz word).....means two independent people coming together and still respecting each others opinions, needs and supporting each other emotionally.
No secret.....we should all want that...I would hope!
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 16
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 8:51:09 AM
It's a tricky balancing act for me. I find I'm probably too independent these days. I like the sense of accomplishment that comes from being able to do things for myself. Having said that, I do know when there are things that I am unable to do myself where I may need, and ask for, assistance. What I find annoying as all get out is being put in the position to feel I have to give up doing something just to make the other person feel "needed" and then having to thank them over and over again because they have that particular need, and it's likely more the reason for them assisting than anything else. If it's something that I can do for myself but being assisted would free up more time to do something more pleasurable together, I'm all for it. To have a partner constantly ask to do something in order for them to feel appreciated just smacks to me of them being needy, rather than it being heartfelt assistance, and I find it a turn off.
 Qura
Joined: 8/5/2014
Msg: 17
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 9:17:51 AM
I'm one of those who agrees that "need" undermines relationships, and favors terms like partnership or teamwork to describe the type of relationship I want.

I like Igor's example about the movie, b/c it is clear that this is a "want," not a "need." We can enjoy the movie alone, but we choose to wait for the greater enjoyment of sharing the experience, connecting over it. If we lose the person whom we chose to wait for, we may feel like we lost someone we "needed," because the sense of loss and the actual loss of that specific pleasure is gone--but if we are emotionally healthy, we re-adjust and move on. Maybe we feel that loss for the rest of our lives, because we can never again experience that specific feeling of enjoyment (or maybe we don't)--but in my book, that still isn't a need, because I continue to have joy and meaning in my life in other ways. Yes, I "needed" that person to feel that specific enjoyment, but I don't "need" him, specifically, to experience the joy of sharing a movie with a loved one.

I would love to have someone in my life like that--someone I'd wait to watch the movie with (other than my kids, of course). So far, I haven't met someone I have connected with like that. It might happen, it might not. I'm still happy, either way.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 18
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 9:19:56 AM
I can be independent or interdependent as much as I want to be at any given time.

I can do a lot of stuff on my own, but frankly I don't want to.
I had a flat tire last week. I can change the tire, but I stood there looking at it
wondering WHY, and along came a guy from work who quickly offered to change it
for me. I let him, thanked him profusely and then later gave him a gift certificate to
a local diner.

I don't want to change the oil in my car, I don't want to drag the trash cans back in
on trash day, I don't want to shovel the mile long driveway, I don't want to drag computers
and printers from one office to the next anymore. I don't want to pull giant boxes of books
off the shelf in receiving anymore, and I don't want to drag 3 bins of trash out to the dumpster
in the snow and rain and freezing cold. I can do this stuff, but I don't want to.

On the other hand, I don't mind doing all the cooking, I do most of the cleaning in the house,
I take care of the yard and plant the gardens. I organize the cookouts and BBQ's, birthday
parties and other celebrations. I set up systems at work and help others with their programming,
I organize the books and help straighten the store. I gather up the trash and put it by the door.

If I ever find myself totally alone in the wilderness, I figure I can make do. Most people can do
stuff on their own if they have to. Unless you find yourself living in a cabin, growing all your own
food, weaving and knitting your own clothes, you're dependent on someone.

I think Babs had it right...people do need people, no matter how much they try to pretend otherwise.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 19
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 10:10:25 AM
I feel exactly as Browneyeboo do. I can do it all and pretty much have since I was 19, always taking care of the SO but really alone with kids that last 11.
I'm tired! lol

I don't need a man per say but would like to have one
It used to be that I would squawk about it (first marriage) but now I understand
Pick up that trash and I'll bake you a pie
but allow me to voice my thoughts please and I'll respect yours
I think this is where the male/female role versus being individuals can balance itself and compromise at the same time.
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 20
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 10:38:43 AM

What that means is trusting that my partner is capable of making good decisions in my absence

Like cleaning the dishes correctly? ;)

and that sometimes, I can put down the 'yoke of responsibility' and HE will pick it up voluntarily and carry it for a while....

.... that he will Like doing the dishes?? ;)

One of the MAIN things that I've heard from men at the end of relationships is that they never felt like I 'needed' them...It was explained that I was rarely if ever, vulnerable, and they often felt like if they left my Life tomorrow that I would probably not miss them much....

Yeah. This has nothing to do with responsibilities like taking out the trash, picking kids up from school, baking a pie, giving one some pie - lol. Sure, if one is Noticeably stringent on that stuff over time, it will have an effect. But it doesn't make or break things.

It comes down to Attitude. How one comes across. Their mentality is still as if it's date #x, not in a Relationship. THAT is the key. If you've been seeing someone for x # of months, but to you it feels like merely date #x -- you're Emotionally distant from them. They'll read that. That's what they mean. Saying "I got it" when it comes to the dishes, trash, and baked goods -- that by itself means little, and just Could be a Reflection of their emotional distance that the other person already feels.

When we've been seeing someone for a good while, and we're still/always Emotionally Distant like that -- it's because underneath it all, we're still butt-hurt over an ex(s).
 Ladyinred4755
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 21
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 11:08:12 AM
From Browneyesboo:

I can be independent or interdependent as much as I want to be at any given time.

I can do a lot of stuff on my own, but frankly I don't want to.


From charminc:

I feel exactly as Browneyeboo do. I can do it all and pretty much have since I was 19, always taking care of the SO but really alone with kids ................


Exactly!

Over the past several years, I learned, that just because I CAN do it all, I don't WANT to, nor do I NEED to do everything for myself.
Very early on in my relationship with my BF, I explained to him, "I'm strong, independent and don't need a man to take care of me. However, I also realize I no longer need to be, THE ONE to take care of everything. I will happily let you help me, do things for me, open doors for me, help me with my coat, change the mud flaps on my truck and change the gear mechanism in the garage door, etc, etc. For everything you do for me, I will be happy to tell you AND show you how much I appreciate what you do for me".

LOL, Damn it feels good, I love it!
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 22
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 11:34:36 AM
I thought the balance between the two has already been achieved in modern day marriages-the system where a marriage is more like a business transaction between two separate entities. Each person has their own bank account, retain the assets they came in with, negotiate how much each person pays for common household expenses, and each person buying whatever they want with their own money without needing permission or approval from their partner, or even notifying their partner-even if it's something like a new car or boat. And since everything is separate, it gives each person the option of immediately leaving the relationship as soon as one of them gets bored, without taking a financial hit, which is the major priority. And some will demand a pre-nup to make sure they don't get ripped off when it ends.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 23
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 3/31/2015 10:09:58 PM
norwegainguy- Now THERE'S a refreshing bit of honesty I appreciate. (your last line)
I take it you've been burned, too?
I have come a LONG way, I have to give myself credit for that.
Trust, obviously I was too trusting and it was equal parts him and me that things went south.
He's gone and has been, so there is little for me to learn from the past anymore.
I'm learning to trust in my OWN judgement again, but it's a process.
I'm always open to advice to keep working on that.
 Dee4166
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 24
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Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 4/1/2015 6:50:30 AM

It comes down to Attitude. How one comes across. Their mentality is still as if it's date #x, not in a Relationship. THAT is the key. If you've been seeing someone for x # of months, but to you it feels like merely date #x -- you're Emotionally distant from them. They'll read that. That's what they mean. Saying "I got it" when it comes to the dishes, trash, and baked goods -- that by itself means little, and just Could be a Reflection of their emotional distance that the other person already feels.

When we've been seeing someone for a good while, and we're still/always Emotionally Distant like that -- it's because underneath it all, we're still butt-hurt over an ex(s).


Well, it's a theory.....

Unfortunately doesn't really apply in my situations. I was 'all in' in ALL of my relationships and was quite clear about that....with the exception of when I was MUCH younger and coming out of a dysfunctional family.

There was NO question about that. Also, I'm NOT into serial relationships, as in I am 'always' in a relationship, so I don't take the issues from one relationship to the next. One f the main reasons that I'm so careful about doing a relationship autopsy at the END of each relationship.

As many here have said, I CAN do what I need to in order to take care of myself, but it would be nice if I could also NOT have to do everything, when in a partnership.

This is about more than 'doing the dishes'?!?!?! It's about can he be trusted to ensure that the bills are paid? Can he be trusted to recognize a problem with the household and correct it without my having to take care of it? Can he be trusted to plan a vacation? Etc.
I was with one guy for example, who, when sent to the grocery store would come back with the most expensive things he could find, despite knowing full well that we were on a tight budget at the time, as well, he would buy things that we had NO need for and that would end up going bad.
It was a complete waste of money and was pretty frustrating that an adult wouldn't 'get' the fact that due to HIS negligence with money that had put us on such a restrictive budget in the first place, that we now had to economize in any way possible.

That's more the kind of thing that I'm talking about.

I have seen MANY couples where one or the other simply under functions so that the other partner is forced to over function. I see that not being 'trusted' to take care of things has quite the advantage for those people. They do less, worry less and reap the benefits equally...

Something wrong with that picture....Which is probably the prime reason for myself that I'm not keen to move in with anyone either, anytime soon.....
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 25
Independence VS Interdependance
Posted: 4/1/2015 8:13:58 AM

Msg 25: Very early on in my relationship with my BF, I explained to him, "I'm strong, independent and don't need a man to take care of me.


If, before making your declaration, he expressed how he's independent and doesn't need a woman to take care of him or for any other purpose, would you high five him for being a real man? Did you prove your independence by paying for your own meals and drinks on dates?
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