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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Caitlin Jenning      Home login  
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 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 1
Caitlin JenningPage 1 of 35    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35)
gosh, surprised no one jumped on this. I've been getting memes on Facebook all week putting CJ next to pictures of military vets and asking who's the hero. so, let's start the debate.

Sometimes, when one reaches an older age (likely the one CJ's at), one decides that what's inside a person determines who they are, more than what's on the outside. Transfering from women to man doesn't make you automatically smarter, becoming a woman from a man's body doesn't make you more compassionate, facelifting ten years off your appearance doesn't make you think like a younger person. Supposedly, you just are what you are. unless, perhaps, changing how you look on the outside gets your favorable responses, which in turn increases your confidence, and as a result you take more chances than you used to.

does changing the hormones inside your body really affect your thinking, and if so, does that really change your personality? Are gender stereotypes about personality types valid? is removing or adding something to your body so you feel comfortable with it, a good way to get comfortable with yourself? if a young person decided they wanted to change their body in order to get comfortable, would that be acceptable or is there a certain age where one is "able to make that decision wisely"? Is there a difference between CJ and, say, Heidi Montag? is it simply a matter of, "you've got the money, go for it"...or is it important enough that insurance should cover it?
 xlr8ingme
Joined: 3/16/2015
Msg: 2
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 1:08:37 PM
I think this is a crazy mixed up world we live in. It seems like the more options we have through technological/medical advances, the crazier it gets. The global perspective of America as a nation is warped enough. Surgeries like this bring "to each his own", to an entirely new level.
 overunity
Joined: 8/16/2014
Msg: 3
view profile
History
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 1:31:23 PM
"CJ" still has the same XY chromosomes.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 4
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 1:52:28 PM

"CJ" still has the same XY chromosomes.


Very likely, which is why he's related more to his feminine side than his male side all these years that he's been suppressing. It's not as black and white as XY chromosomes but has more to do with the variances in XY - for more read up on such articles as found at http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome


does changing the hormones inside your body really affect your thinking, and if so, does that really change your personality?

Apparently it does or can, as evidenced by men taking more testosterone hormones becoming more aggressive, etc.


Are gender stereotypes about personality types valid?

Only to a degree and based on the chemical/hormonal composition of each individual. For instance, because one male may want to jump out of airplanes and climb cliffs and the next man may not (as well as applying that to women), it depends on their natural level of adrenaline, their need for more, etc. Typically, males have more testosterone than women and women have more estrogen than men and is what creates a basic stereotype - however, with each person having different levels of hormones, there are varying subsets of personality types depending on those levels. On top of that, there are learned societal behaviours that are adopted which compel or force an individual to display different personality traits, even if they don't inherently feel they were born to feel that way.


is removing or adding something to your body so you feel comfortable with it, a good way to get comfortable with yourself?

You'd have to ask those who have done it, but I get the impression it must help or so many wouldn't feel compelled to follow through with it.


if a young person decided they wanted to change their body in order to get comfortable, would that be acceptable or is there a certain age where one is "able to make that decision wisely"?

Being that the human brain doesn't stop maturing until the mid twenties, I'd consider that age would be more appropriate to make a better and more informed decision.


Is there a difference between CJ and, say, Heidi Montag?

I believe there's a difference between plastic surgery for the sake vanity and plastic surgery for the sake of gender reassignment. Although it can make both individuals feel better about themselves, there are entirely different reasons for it.


is it simply a matter of, "you've got the money, go for it"...or is it important enough that insurance should cover it?

With the number of people who live an extremely troubled life because of it, I believe insurance should cover at least part of it, especially psychological counselling. That some people have the money to "go for it" is, I would imagine, fortunate for them.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 5
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 1:58:51 PM

"CJ" still has the same XY chromosomes.

Perhaps... but maybe not... he may have never been an "xy"...

And here is question... What if he is an "xxy"...? THEN what would he be...? male...? female...? neither...? both...?

And more importantly... does it REALLY matter... for anybody but him/her/them/it...?
 cold_coffee
Joined: 8/5/2014
Msg: 6
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 3:32:24 PM
He probably took steroids to win the Olympics and this is the side effect.
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 7
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 3:40:52 PM
he doesn't have klinefelter syndrome. men who have it aren't known for identifying as female, although they do have certain physical features that are 'female-ish'.

I heard an interesting interview about him-her yesterday. jenner admitted his gender identity disorder to his first wife many years ago. he also admitted it to his second wife. they went to counseling; she was told he would always have the condition and that it can't be changed. jenner never admitted it to his third wife until..... surprise.

he was also alienated from his kids for many years and was described as being socially awkward and emotionally 'weird'. but since he ---> she, she has reconciled with her children. I wouldn't wish any of what he has going on on anyone. I hope the transformation has brought him some peace, and by all accounts it appears to have done just that.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 8
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 4:09:03 PM

he doesn't have klinefelter syndrome. men who have it aren't known for identifying as female, although they do have certain physical features that are 'female-ish'.

I didn't say he had Klinefelter syndrome... that is your limited assumption only...

Here's a hint: Not all xxy are Klinefelter... not all Klinefelter are xxy... and those people tend to highly identify as gender non-conformal...

Whether he ACTUALLY is xxy really isn't relevant... the point is related to assuming... xy must... or at least necessarily should... always identify/be identified as "male"... or xx must... or at least necessarily should... always identify/be identified as "male"... In some cases... it is clearly a matter of individual perspective...

I felt it necessary to point that out to you... given the response you gave... Clearly you missed the point...
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 9
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 5:20:20 PM
Can we still dislike her just because of the whole reality TV nonsense? Or even for That's Incredible - for those of us old enough to remember?
 tgif333
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 10
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 6:52:27 PM
he can have all the operations he wants but he'll be a man until the day he dies.

he's a founding member of the Kardashian Society and is an excellent example of where we are going as a country.
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 11
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 7:05:11 PM
@ message 8, yes not all xxy males have ks since ks is a description of a body of symptoms called 'ks', thanks for splitting hairs. Only xxy males that have the symptoms are, therefore, ks. I just thought i'd point that out since you have clearly missed the obvious. But if you want to assume that jenner is asymptomatic and therefore does not have ks, then i guess that's just peachy. Meanwhile i'm pretty sure that if jenner were a non-ks xxy male, then someone would have found a way to make some media hay out of it. As if. Feel free to invent an alternate reality.
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 3/5/2011
Msg: 12
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 7:18:01 PM
The guy already had four children when he married Kris Kardashian. I am no fan of the Kartrashian Klan, but I agree with his last ex-wife (Kris) when she asks, "if he always knew that he wanted to be a woman, then why get married and have kids with me in the first place?"

That's just cruel. Obviously, anything goes in Tinseltown.
 motowncowgirl
Joined: 3/24/2015
Msg: 13
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 7:32:19 PM
I'm sure jenner isnt the first person on the planet to struggle with his sexual identity. Yes it's something he admitted to his first wife and obviously discussed in detail during counseling, but that doesnt mean he fully came to terms with it. Otherwise he would have made the switcheroo sooner. Denial and conflicted feelings make people do all sorts of contrary things.

People have gotten divorced for less. Oh well, anytime you marry someone youre taking a chance. If you want an iron clad guarantee, then wait for death.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 14
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History
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 7:45:11 PM
Message 1 ...
Supposedly, you just are what you are.
It sounds like BJ/CJ just wasn't happy in the skin he/she was born with. People can't jump over their shadows and it seems that those who are not happy in the bodies they're born with probably do need the chance to make adjustments so they can live a happy life ... even if it's not necessarily as "normal" as some would like it to be. (What is "normal"?)

unless, perhaps, changing how you look on the outside gets your favorable responses, which in turn increases your confidence, and as a result you take more chances than you used to.
I have known people who have made huge changes to themselves just by going on a diet and exercising. It appears (in most cases) to increase their confidence and self esteem in many aspects of their lives.

does changing the hormones inside your body really affect your thinking, and if so, does that really change your personality?
It seems to me that the "change" with BJ/CJ took place many, many years ago and at that time (as far as anyone knows) BJ/CJ was not ingesting "hormones". Men ... if you have gained any substantial amount of belly fat could ask himself the same question.

Belly fat on men produces estrogen ... over and above what any man needs in his body. Among other things, it causes penis shrinkage, increase breast size.
http://www.seasonswellness.com/itsnotjustawomanthing/
Not only do high estrogen levels decrease testosterone in men, they also increase inflammation. And this is VERY significant. Inflammation, just like stress, is a biochemical process.

Inflammation is the natural result of the immune system. Remember the last time you got a paper cut? It was incredibly painful, probably red, warm and swollen, all cardinal symptoms of inflammation. Inflammation, in the right setting, is actually the body protecting itself. However, when the immune system becomes imbalanced or chronically activated, the immune system causes damage through inflammation. For example, chronically activated immune cells in the brain (glial cells) play a pivotal role in the development of Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, and Multiple Sclerosis.

Inflammation is a SERIOUS issue. Chronic inflammation has been linked to many of the chronic diseases of aging: Type II Diabetes, obesity, hypertension, and cancer. In fact, a new term has been coined to describe inflammation arising from Something to think about if you the gut which results in many of the above listed disease states - metabolic endotoxemia.

What causes high estrogen levels in men?
1. High aromatase activity = high estrogen. First, high endogenous estrogen levels in men come from high aromatase activity. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts androstenedione and testosterone into estrone and estradiol respectively. Aromatase is present in many different tissues. But in men aromatase is highly concentrated in that mid-life bulge.

Unfortunately, aromatase activity in men increases as we age due to stress, weight gain, and inflammation. None of us are going to get away from aging (it’s right there with death and taxes). And who do you know that has NO stress? (Remember, it is estimated that 90% of doctor visits are stress-related.) Typically, as we age we gain weight and have more inflammation.

That “age-related” tire around the mid-section is more than just unsightly. It is a hormone and inflammation-producing organ. Remember metabolic endotoxemia, the disease-producing state I mentioned earlier? Metabolic endotoxemia is inflammation arising from the GI system which causes obesity and then turns right around and produces inflammation. It’s a vicious cycle! And guess what is concentrated in fat? If you guessed aromatase activity, then you are absolutely correct. Aromatase activity in men accounts for 80% of estrogen production.
As far as I know, BJ/CJ still has male genitalia (the full package) so this might get really interesting.

BJ/CJ might still be interested enough in women to be able to deliver the load while appealing to a lesbian partner? A lesbian dream come true? Or not.

is removing or adding something to your body so you feel comfortable with it, a good way to get comfortable with yourself?
I can't speak for other women, but I know I felt a lot better after I had my "ovariohysterectomy". I use my "Estradiol" every day, 365 days a year. I have been using some form of Estrogen ever since I had my surgery back in September 1985. I've never felt better in my life, I never had to go through menopause and have high energy levels which comes in handy when going on outings with my daughter and grandson ... and great nieces and nephews. On the other hand, I expected to feel a lot better since it was done in order to keep me from bleeding to death.

If a person can afford to alter their body to bring them better into their comfort zone ... I say let them go for it. As for whether or not it should be covered by insurance ... I have no opinion just yet.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 15
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 8:24:35 PM

...."if he always knew that he wanted to be a woman, then why get married and have kids with me in the first place?"


Yeah really eh, he should have just come out then, not like it is a big deal or anything.

Probably did not struggle with the fact his livelihood is based on his imaged or anything like that.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 16
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 8:34:36 PM

Meanwhile i'm pretty sure that if jenner were a non-ks xxy male, then someone would have found a way to make some media hay out of it. As if. Feel free to invent an alternate reality.

Well... I guess I might as well... considering you seem to feel free to believe I said something I didn't... and once again... managed to completely miss the point...

Here... I'll repeat it for you...

"Whether he ACTUALLY is xxy really isn't relevant... the point is related to assuming... xy must... or at least necessarily should... always identify/be identified as "male"... or xx must... or at least necessarily should... always identify/be identified as "female"... In some cases... it is clearly a matter of individual perspective..."

Do you see it now...? Or do you still believe you've read things that haven't been written...
 aj7125
Joined: 11/28/2014
Msg: 17
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 9:04:11 PM
Motown, you will have to excuse poster/msg #8. As we all read his response to you, he is just being his normal arrogant pr!ck(look up the definition). You had an opinion and he very eloquently, I mean arrogantly "tried" to put you in your place. Instead of addressing you to agree or disagree with you, to tell you that he felt you misunderstood his post, he tried to humiliate your opinion. Obviously we all who know this poster does so all the time. He is quite the defensive type poster
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 18
view profile
History
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/3/2015 11:52:10 PM
Caitlin Jenning, really? You couldn't be bothered to look up the spelling, I mean at least get Jenner right, after all he is one of American's most famous Olympians.

As for a person feeling they are in the wrong gender body is nothing new, the surgery to change from one to the other has been done for a very long time, this is nothing new. It's was covered extensively when others have had it done, others who were known as celebrities. Of course your everyday person having it done doesn't get any coverage unless they were on some documentary.

Jenner has been struggling with this since he was a child, and like most children going through this he was confused. Jenner tried hard to understand all that was happening to him. As for Kris not knowing, what a load of bullshit, he was taking female hormones and working toward the surgery when he met her, she knew from the start. She's just going for getting attention from being the poor harmed wife, she always knew, he dressed up like a woman in the privacy of their room, she wasn't shocked by any of this, she's just pissed that he's making his own moves with a TV show and getting more press than she is.

As for what Caitlyn Jenner has finally done, good for her, it's about time she got to be who she feels she is inside. I'm sick to death of people making fun of someone with a gender issue, what do they find to be okay for a person to have which they have no control over, or do they pick and choose who to make fun of? I have no tolerance for jackasses or those who like to play like they don't get it. If Bruce Jenner had never married into the crazy Kardashians, this would still be all over the news, he was Bruce Jenner, he's famous, now he's Caitlyn Jenner and she's happy, she's still making the news and is getting a TV reality show. These tired old bigot jokes were stupid when Chaz Bono had the surgery, they just as bigoted and tiresome now.
 shirleywonton01
Joined: 4/30/2015
Msg: 19
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/4/2015 1:58:49 AM

...."if he always knew that he wanted to be a woman, then why get married and have kids with me in the first place?"
---------


Yeah really eh, he should have just come out then, not like it is a big deal or anything.

Probably did not struggle with the fact his livelihood is based on his imaged or anything like that.



That's a good point.

I've always thought that if you haven't walked in their shoes, how can you judge, but my gut reaction everytime I see this sort of thing is that it is perverted and self-centered. Because why did he not choose the path of selflessness for the sake of his children and continue living as a man? If he had not had kids or married 3 women, do whatever but don't blast it on t.v. Heterosexuals will never find this anything other than disturbingly bizarre. In other words we will never accept it as mainstream behavior especially as he sacrifices the well being of his children so he can wear make-up and girls clothes.
 gcdeb
Joined: 4/1/2015
Msg: 20
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History
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/4/2015 4:26:09 AM

Heterosexuals will never find this anything other than disturbingly bizarre
Please don't present yourself as speaking on behalf of all heterosexuals.
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 21
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/4/2015 4:44:44 AM
Transjenner seems to be just what the NWO ordered . A "renaissance" person without identity. A product of our handlers. Say , have you noticed more andrgenous folks in public lately? Just askin.
 tgif333
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 22
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/4/2015 5:25:16 AM
the first time they put his transformed photo on the tv in that dress my penis contracted into my body like a scared turtle.

his situation and transformation from a manly Olympian gives me major cold water shrinkage.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 23
Caitlyn Jenner
Posted: 6/4/2015 6:34:16 AM

the first time they put his transformed photo on the tv in that dress my penis contracted into my body like a scared turtle.


That is about as stupid as someone who rides a Mt bike with the front forks on backwards.
 etourdi65
Joined: 8/20/2014
Msg: 24
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/4/2015 7:31:03 AM

Perhaps... but maybe not... he may have never been an "xy"...
Or he may simply be suffering from a Mental Disorder.
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 25
Caitlin Jenning
Posted: 6/4/2015 7:46:58 AM

Or he may simply be suffering from a mental disorder?


Did you choose to be a male heterosexual ?
Or do you have a mental disorder ?

How about throwing some biological information into the mix?

http://www.majickalproductions.biz/bekasite/resouces/In-Womb%20Development.htm


Transsexual Brain Development
Like the normal male embryo, the male to female Transsexual brain starts out female.
Then between the 8th and 24th weeks, the ‘XY’ chromosomes introduce testosterone
hormonal changes, but the hormonal washes as faulty.
They are either insufficient or ill timed.
When this happens, the fetus develops a male body.

However, some of the default (original) female brain processes remain intact. Thus, the brain’s
gender identity remain intact. Thus, the brains gender identity remains female. This means that
Transsexual males whose process of brain masculinization was incomplete, Their default female
brains still function.

The degree of arrested development can vary. The orgininal brain circuitry
that was missed in the masculinizing process provides a continuing feminine influence.
This explains why many Transsexuals, biological males know, from as early as 3 years old,
that they are actually members of the opposite sex.

What is the job of the ‘XX’ and ‘XY’ chromosomes?

It seems that one of the jobs of the ‘XX’ and ‘XY’ chromosomes is to govern the introduction of testosterone into the womb. However, chromosomal influence is limited by the many glitches that can happen during the fetal growth process. This is why each human being possesses a unique mixture of male and female traits. Some of these mixes (eg: Transsexualism) make the individuals who have them significantly different from society’s expectations. This causes these people much confusion and suffering. Indeed, there are, in our world, many males who have ‘XX’ chromosomes and many females who have ‘XY’ chromosomes.

Being Transsexual is not a choice

What can be known about Transsexuals?

Transsexualism does not rise from being exposed,
in childhood to the clother, toys, activities, and goals
of the opposite sex. Nor are Transsexuals; sex addicts,
morally corrupt or mentally ill.
Transsexuals are simply people who have the
body of one sex and the brain wiring
of the opposite sex.


It helps to be educated before you judge or comment.

Btw...we all start off FEMALE in the womb.
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