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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 1
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?Page 1 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Whether you are a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or a member of any other religious faith, the growing gap between the very rich and everyone else is a profoundly moral issue.

It is an issue that needs to be vigorously discussed by the American people, and that urgently needs to be addressed by Congress.

The United States is the richest country on the face of the earth. Yet, there are more Americans living in poverty today than at any time in our history, the middle class is disappearing and we have the most unequal distribution of wealth and income of any major country in the world.

Today, the top one percent owns 38 percent of the nation’s financial wealth. Meanwhile, the bottom sixty percent owns just 2.3 percent.

Today, the richest 400 Americans own over $2 trillion in wealth, more than the bottom 150 million Americans combined.

Over the past decade, the net worth of the top 400 billionaires in this country has doubled – increasing by an astronomical $1 trillion.

Last year, the top 25 hedge fund managers made more than $24 billion, enough to pay the salaries of more than 425,000 public school teachers. What does that say about what we value as a nation?

Since the Great Recession, 95 percent of all new income created in this country has gone to the top 1 percent.

The Walton family (the owners of Walmart) owns more wealth than the bottom 40 percent of Americans.

Meanwhile, the U.S. has the highest rate of childhood poverty than any major country on earth.

Half of Americans have less than $10,000 in their savings accounts and have no idea how they will ever be able to retire with dignity.

Since 1999, the typical middle-class family has seen its income go down by more than $5,000 after adjusting for inflation.

Whether you are Catholic or Protestant; Christian, Jewish or Muslim; Hindu or Buddhist, what all of the major religions teach us is that it is immoral when so many have so little and so few have so much.

A land where millionaires and billionaires have never had it so good, while tens of millions struggle just to survive is not what Christianity is about. It’s not what Judaism is about. And it’s not what America is supposed to be about.

Today, the United States is No. 1 in billionaires, No. 1 in corporate profits, No. 1 in CEO salaries, No. 1 in childhood poverty and No. 1 in income and wealth inequality in the industrialized world.

From a moral perspective, from an economic perspective, and from a political perspective, we have got to do better.


Where can we begin?


http://www.sanders.senate.gov/vermont/income-inequality-moral-issue
 Orione7
Joined: 12/22/2014
Msg: 2
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/23/2015 2:01:13 PM
Europe is that way Bernie ------>
As are Aus, Canada, NZ.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 3
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/23/2015 2:15:11 PM

Where can we begin?

I think a barbeque... and a dinner plate... might be the best place to start...
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 4
view profile
History
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/23/2015 6:31:59 PM

Today, the United States is No. 1 in billionaires, No. 1 in corporate profits, No. 1 in CEO salaries, No. 1 in childhood poverty and No. 1 in income and wealth inequality in the industrialized world.

From a moral perspective, from an economic perspective, and from a political perspective, we have got to do better.

I can't pick a fight with that. Sounds like he's on target with that.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 5
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 4:15:27 AM
Can American Dems come up with options other than Hillary Clinton, Warren, Sanders and Biden? Is there no one else?

I would like to know whether anyone has any ideas about any one else.

Is there no one else worth mentioning or who could have a decent campaign?
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 6
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 5:54:11 AM
Wow , never thought I would agree with Orione 7. Sanders is a kenard.

What kind of candidate runs away from 2 angry 3rd worlders? Another kenard. BLM.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 7
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 6:08:38 AM
Wow , never thought I would agree with Orione 7. Sanders is a kenard.

What kind of candidate runs away from 2 angry 3rd worlders? Another kenard. BLM.
----------------
Do you ever post anything that isn't content free?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 8
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 6:09:29 AM
Actually, one of your threats Biala, a biracial, and both live in Seattle. Is that 3rd world?
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 9
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 6:25:34 AM

Can American Dems come up with options other than Hillary Clinton, Warren, Sanders and Biden? Is there no one else?


No, unfortunately the Democratic party does not have a clown car, so this will have to do.




I would like to know whether anyone has any ideas about any one else.


Is that because you are unable to think for yourself, or was that you best attempt at trolling?




Is there no one else worth mentioning or who could have a decent campaign?


Are you trolling or do you not know anything about Sanders?
 BialaPolska
Joined: 5/20/2015
Msg: 10
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 7:01:05 AM
Dee , Yes. Absolutely.

How could any response be nothing less than "context free". When candidates become threatening to a specific demographic ; one can expect backlash. Whites won't buy into geNOcidal practices and then pay for it with our tax dollars. Bernie can't even stand up for himself in public. Just another cucktard welcoming illegals with open arms and wallets.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 11
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 7:11:09 AM

Bernie can't even stand up for himself in public. Just another cucktard welcoming illegals with open arms and wallets.


In your incoherent and possibly meth fuel rant, you left out that he also kicks puppies for some reason.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 12
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 7:37:37 AM

In your incoherent and possibly meth fuel rant, you left out that he also kicks puppies for some reason.

I'm still waiting... for him to tell us who... "Kenard" is...

and just what... exactly... he has to do with any of this... He keeps periodically mentioning this guy... but has never told us who he is...
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 13
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 10:03:44 AM
We begin by examining what made the US an economic super power and figuring out what went wrong. The ideals that made the US a global power were based around individual freedom, personal responsibility, and strong family values. These things created an environment of upward mobility that lifted more people out of poverty than any steal and spend government program ever has. All of these things have been under constant assault from multiple vectors, particularly since 1913...the year the Republic died. There's no Republic without state legislatures having representation in the national government. Additionally the 17th Amendment is the only Amendment to the Constitution that is blatantly unConstitutional. Article5 S1 "no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

Wealth disparity is a problem, but National Socialism isn't the answer, following the law is the answer. The federal government needs the living crap smacked out of it and to have it's Constitutional chains placed back upon it. It's an overgrown illegal monstrosity that tramples all over the rights of the individual and the individual states in favor of Marxist doctrine(greater good to the greater number) and ignores Constitutional checks on federal overreach. People listen to candidates that wax rhetorical about how best to spend other people's money and ignore the fact that it's not theirs to spend. Taxation is theft, sure as carjacking is theft, but politicians want you to focus on the "free" goodies. If they talk about who they'll steal the money to pay for the "free" goodies at all it'll be an easily vilified generic minority...usually "rich people". Bernie Sanders talks about a couple years of free college, but neglects to mention that nothing is free. Things that politicians say are free are simply deferred cost items, and the bill will come due, it will just come due when they're no longer in office. The people that will have to pay the bills that Bernie Sanders would rack up can't vote yet, haven't been born yet, and have no voice. Yet he speaks about how immoral the wealth gap is? How is it possible to see this as anything other than pure hypocrisy?

We've already been down this road multiple times. The foundation for the welfare/warfare state was lain in 1913 and we've been at perpetual war ever since. Trillions spent and LBJ's "war" on poverty hasn't dented poverty. The future has already been mortgaged and a 2nd and 3rd mortgage has already been taken out. The bill is overdue and more immoral spending on the backs of our own grandchildren and great-grandchildren is not suddenly going to fix anything. We need to embrace sound money, personal responsibility, strong family units, and limited government. These are the principles that made America strong and it's only a resurgence of these principles and a rejection of collectivism that will stop the decay.
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 14
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 10:14:25 AM

How is it possible to see this as anything other than pure hypocrisy?


Easy, have a better than 3rd grade education on how investing in the future nets greater rewards.

Or move to a country like Somali that is just exactly the utopia you describe.
 Orione7
Joined: 12/22/2014
Msg: 15
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 10:23:45 AM
National Socialism? National Socialism is a far right wing ideology... Nazism.
More like the modern republican party than anything else.

Socialism (a left wing ideology) and Nazism/national socialism are totally different. America has warped fascism too.
Viva il Duce.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 16
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 10:44:43 AM

The ideals that made the US a global power were based around individual freedom, personal responsibility, and strong family values.

Well... there's your first mistake... none of those "ideals"... lead to "global power"... in any way...

These things created an environment of upward mobility that lifted more people out of poverty

No... having one of the worlds only remaining... intact... and fully functioning... manufacturing and distribution bases... not to have been bombed into near oblivion... and a virtually captive market because of it... allowed that to happen... same as it did for Canada... which experienced the same... just based on a smaller population...

National Socialism isn't the answer, following the law is the answer. The federal government needs the living crap smacked out of it and to have it's Constitutional chains placed back upon it. It's an overgrown illegal monstrosity that tramples all over the rights of the individual and the individual states in favor of Marxist doctrine(greater good to the greater number) and ignores Constitutional checks on federal overreach.

What...?!? "National Socialism... AND... Marxism...?!?

How is it... that you get to the place where... "up" and "down"... "left" and "right"... "in" and "out"... mean the same things...?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 17
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 11:18:45 AM
Its funny that when BS gives up the mic for BLM, he's a coward, but when the GOP gives up the mic to Donald Trump, none of the GOP candidates are cowards.

Wealth gap is nothing new, the middle class is actually a new phenomenon. What would help those barely keeping their heads above water is a little term called "class consciousness". In other words, stop hating them darn darkskinned people for being what they are, and realize...economically speaking, the lower middle class isn't far away . But as Prez Bartlett once said on the TV show The West Wing, no one wants to identify with the poor, they want to identify with the rich.

recognize you're one health care crisis away from being bankrupt, and you might want to start fighting for them. But if you keep believing they are out to take your job, rather than you being replaced by your coworker with an extra computer program to help them do your job and their's, if you keep thinking the guy handing you your check while wondering how to cut overhead is your friend....you aren't going to have many allies. just angry men to stand next to you, wringing their hands and talking about how their fathers used to have jobs and pensions.

what made America so great? lack of economic competition. After 1946, who was there? Germany was literally divided and in ruins. The British Empire was falling apart, colonies like India weren't the competitors they are now. We did have a military rival, so we could take that money we made (and without computers, consider the huge payroll--we paid people to type letters, mail them, do filing, etc. now the exec has a phone in his pocket doing all these jobs. pump gas? now you do that and pay with a card. that's another job gone. every time you swipe a card, that's a former job for people who weren't white collar) and spend it for purpose. We don't need bombers and tanks and aircraft carriers to wipe out enemies now, we use drones. So there goes those jobs.

now we have plenty of economic rivals, fewer low end jobs to absorb those without a master's degree, and war doesn't raise the economy like it did in 1945. Loads of countries believe in family values--and government handouts, and yet individuals do economically as well or better. They do fight fewer wars, however.

winning a battle against a weaker foe is easy enough. Its the occupation that costs so much. America lost most of its battles against Great Britain up to 1812, but it won the "cost war". it cost too darn much to keep us under thumb. Every empire runs into this problem.

we can bomb a terrorist on the other side of the planet, but we can't fix the potholes in your street that increases not just the cost of car ownership but the transportation costs for business. want to know why America is falling down? go stare at the pothole and see if you figure out where our perspective went.

and yes, mungo, you're spot-on about the unions. we forgot what brought us here. we demonize the wrong things. but then, a better education in schools might help. teach people to think critically, not regurgitate what they heard on Faux News. decades ago, Pogo told us...we have met the enemy. and it is us.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 18
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 11:30:27 AM

just angry men to stand next to you, wringing their hands and talking about how their fathers used to have jobs and pensions.

And... funny enough... in a great many cases... those jobs and pensions... were "union made"...

And yet... the same unions that "made" their fathers' jobs and pensions... are blamed for THEM not having... those "union made" jobs and pensions...
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 19
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 11:52:01 AM

Easy, have a better than 3rd grade education on how investing in the future nets greater rewards.


Thanks for the ad hominem, guess you've already ceded the debate. BTW we've already invested trillions we don't have and cannot ever hope to repay. Always someone willing to steal someone else's money at gunpoint because THEY know how best to spend it...and yes that's Marxism. Theft is wrong, whether you're government or a street thug on meth.

For everyone that still buys into the false left right paradigm of a Socialist/Progressive/Democrat left vs a Fascist/Conservative/Republican right...I invite you to look up the true name of the Fascist Nazi party.

A Nazi is a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Yeah, suddenly doesn't sound so opposite of a Marxist/Socialist/Communist does it? Could it be that the real paradigm is collectivists vs individualists and we've all been duped? Gee, I dunno, but it doesn't seem to matter much which party is in charge of the executive and/or legislature, the macro policies do not change. Republican or Democrat, the only thing that's really up for debate is a few social issues that government shouldn't have a role in anyway...the welfare/warfare state goosesteps onward.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 20
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 12:06:06 PM

For everyone that still buys into the false left right paradigm of a Socialist/Progressive/Democrat left vs a Fascist/Conservative/Republican right...I invite you to look up the true name of the Fascist Nazi party.

A Nazi is a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Yeah, suddenly doesn't sound so opposite of a Marxist/Socialist/Communist does it?


THAT'S your justification...?!? It "has the word 'socialist' in it"...?!? You are going to need a whole lot more than that... to make it fly...

Could it be that the real paradigm is collectivists vs individualists and we've all been duped?

Dude... democracy... is by it's very nature "collectivist"... a republic... is by it's very nature "collectivist"... According to your "thesis"... any form of democracy... even a republic... is "marxist"...

This quite inadequate attempt to "redefine" the "paradigm of the political spectrum"... to something you find... more "palatable" to your own beliefs... is not only faulty in its construction... it is completely self-defeating... simply for the very reason that this "truly constitutional gov't"... you seem to pine for... is by it's very nature "collectivist"...
 sacredrain
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 21
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 12:14:28 PM
Why would I have to "make it fly"? Just look around. Government is into everything, and in particular government is into seizing the means of production...the very definition of Socialism.

Yes, government, both Democratic(mob rule) and a Constitutional Republic are by definition legalized monopolies on force. The difference is that one attempts to define and protect the rights of the individual and the other does not. Yes, both systems are imperfect, but one is far more imperfect than the other. Democracies lead to totalitarianism and Republics have to be broken to become a Democracy so that they can become totalitarian. We're there. The rights of the individual are a long lost memory at this point. Politicians like Sanders spout Communist populist propaganda by the metric ton and people eat it up. It will afterall, be those "others" that will have to sacrifice for the greater good of "society" right? Surely not I.
 Orione7
Joined: 12/22/2014
Msg: 22
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 12:33:04 PM
The social part of the NSDAP referred to the social aspect of the returning soldiers who formed the party.
They modelled it on the fascists in Italy, very right wing and non socialist.

Then both nations and others went to war with the creators of socialism in a war of annihilation.. rip... Italians.
Shouldn't get hooked on names... Americas name is the United states.... Aint united worth a damn.
East Germanys name was the German Democratic Republic... democratic? no.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 23
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 12:35:34 PM

Yes, government, both Democratic(mob rule) and a Constitutional Republic are by definition legalized monopolies on force. The difference is that one attempts to define and protect the rights of the individual and the other does not. Yes, both systems are imperfect, but one is far more imperfect than the other. Democracies lead to totalitarianism and Republics have to be broken to become a Democracy so that they can become totalitarian. We're there. The rights of the individual are a long lost memory at this point. Politicians like Sanders spout Communist populist propaganda by the metric ton and people eat it up. It will afterall, be those "others" that will have to sacrifice for the greater good of "society" right? Surely not I.

The biggest reason... you need to "make it fly"... is because your entire reasoning is false... Everything you've said... is based on a false.. and incomplete... understanding of the terms you are throwing around...

Democracy and Republic... are NOT interchangeable terms... They each describe a separate element of gov't... Democracy is a system of gov't... while... Republic is a form of gov't... One is "systemic"... The other is "structural"...

A republic can just as correctly be autocratic... as democratic... and... democracy can just as correctly be a monarchy... as a republic...

Again... your argument is thoroughly flawed in its formation and structure... It simply doesn't make the point you are trying to make...
 HFX_RGB2
Joined: 4/14/2015
Msg: 24
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 1:22:43 PM

A Nazi is a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Yeah, suddenly doesn't sound so opposite of a Marxist/Socialist/Communist does it? Could it be that the real paradigm is collectivists vs individualists and we've all been duped? Gee, I dunno, but it doesn't seem to matter much which party is in charge of the executive and/or legislature, the macro policies do not change. Republican or Democrat, the only thing that's really up for debate is a few social issues that government shouldn't have a role in anyway...the welfare/warfare state goosesteps onward.


Based on that complete load of BS I can only assume you are going to tell us about how great Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum (Ayn Rand) was.
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 25
Sen. Bernie Sanders, Where can we begin?
Posted: 8/24/2015 1:46:45 PM

Additionally the 17th Amendment is the only Amendment to the Constitution that is blatantly unConstitutional.

It also behooves me to point out... that this statement is blatanly false... and betrays a complete misunderstanding of constitutional principles...

Amendments to the constitution are never "unconstitutional" simply because they disagree with an earlier part... they take precedence... even if the earlier part is not specifically repealed... by the amendment... THAT is the PURPOSE of an amendment... and an amendment process... to CHANGE earlier provisions... by the enactment of succeeding provisions... called AMENDMENTS...

It's pretty basic...
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