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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > Home ownership a dealbreaker?      Home login  
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 sealady111
Joined: 5/31/2015
Msg: 1
Home ownership a dealbreaker?Page 1 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
I went out to lunch with some ladies today and the topic of home ownership came up.
We were discussing 'deal breakers' and the importance of finding out the important things before getting too involved in a relationship.
A friend of ours is getting divorced after only 1 year of marriage. She is 32 and wants a home and children and he does not.
We all thought that these things should be sorted out, well before the relationship becomes serious. She also has/had no idea about his finances. Never asked. She has found out that their situation and expectations of their relationship are unworkably different.

All of the single ladies own their own home or have it nearly paid off (by their own money earned from working) and said that they would not get involved with a man unless he owned his own home, had a good job and reasonable retirement savings.

Comments like "He doesn't even have his own home. Nope!!!"
Ages of the ladies ranged from 50 - 60.

Be honest.
If you have worked hard for your entire life, saved and been financially responsible, is it important that your partner be the same?
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 2
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 3:20:38 AM
Most women want someone who has what they have or more, it's pretty common. I can't blame them really. Find somebody who is better off than you are and you'll have less problems (or find one as well off as you at least).
 high-ground
Joined: 6/16/2013
Msg: 3
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History
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 3:50:56 AM
Sure hope her dad didn't blow 20,000 on her wedding. I thought engagement and courtship was the time to explorer the dreams and needs of each other.

As for your more mature friends, just how do they plan to find out someones financial worth. But in today's world of equal pay and equal rights expect more men to impose those same expectations.
 Eric_Summit
Joined: 11/3/2009
Msg: 4
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 4:37:33 AM
My romantic relationships over the past thirty or so years have been far more emotion-driven than ledger-driven.
 marysunshine02
Joined: 10/11/2015
Msg: 5
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 4:39:26 AM
Is this more about how well off you and your friends are and how you own homes, yachts, etc. and have great jobs and how wonderful you are? Cool.

Seems to me the 32 year old friend is dumb as a stick if she didn't get a few things settle prior to her marriage a year ago. I would think even the dumbest of dumb would have discussed where and how they would live as well as whether they wants children. Like the other poster said, I hope Daddy and Mommy didn't spend a small fortune on their daughter's wedding.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 6
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 4:46:57 AM

If you have worked hard for your entire life, saved and been financially responsible, is it important that your partner be the same?


What does this have to do with owning a home?

I can do one and still not have the other. In fact, in this area, right now, it's at the point that it's almost "smarter" NOT to own a home ( which includes a mortgage of unimaginable proportions). Some would call that being "financially responsible" because they are smart enough not to go into debt just for a roof over your head. Houses are suppose to be for shelter, nothing more. Nowadays though, it's seems it's a sign of "financial responsibility"???????

Not always.
 sealady111
Joined: 5/31/2015
Msg: 7
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 4:50:44 AM
I asked the 32 year old.

She is convinced that they discussed and agreed prior to the wedding.
Her husband is significantly older.
She 32 he in his 50's.

I do not consider our ladies group well off. We are normal or average.
 hemingway234
Joined: 6/6/2015
Msg: 8
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 5:17:17 AM
^^^^if they discussed it previously, then that's fraud on his part (not legally, but it captures the spirit of the thing).

Also, most women that age want to have kids - the guy should have known better.
 Paladin2015
Joined: 5/29/2015
Msg: 9
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 5:24:27 AM
{quote]She 32 he in his 50's.

There's your sign.....daddy issues.
 marysunshine02
Joined: 10/11/2015
Msg: 10
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 5:29:49 AM
Most mean that age don't want children. And there is asking a question lol me " do you want children" and listening to the actual answer or listening to the answer you want to hear. IMO this couple were both nuts. There is no fraud when both appear to be ill prepared for adult decisions.
 Strawberry_Jello
Joined: 5/13/2014
Msg: 11
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Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 6:00:59 AM
I have talked to and met several men who either don't have their own home, or have something much less impressive than what they had before.
With divorce, the market crash, housing crash, and retirement, many of these men will never recover financially. I don't hold it against them.
I do draw the line at living in a motel, or renting a room from an ex. Yes, they are out there.

Hardly anyone around here has their home paid off. So you Aussie's are doing well in comparison.

~~~

Oh, I'm sure he knew better. And he phrased his answer in such a way that she heard what she thought she heard, and he can now say he didn't say exactly that.


Also, most women that age want to have kids - the guy should have known better.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 12
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 6:59:20 AM
As Walts says, financial responsibility and owning a home are not the same.

I don't own a home, I prefer to rent since it gets me an exercise room and a swimming pool I don't have to maintain.
The breaking point of my marriage when I knew I wanted to get a divorce was when he chose to be fiscally irresponsible at a time when I asked him to be a little more responsible for a single month (January after an extravagant for us Christmas). He bought a gaming system and games costing almost half of our combined take-home pay (which wasn't large). He couldn't contain his impulse buying that long though we agreed to not spend without discussing large purchases. In the end, it wasn't the money he spent but rather the fact that he lied, ignoring me and my concerns so frequently.

So now, being financially responsible is an important quality in my future partner. More important is listening to concerns and following through on promises.
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 13
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 7:48:48 AM

All of the single ladies own their own home or have it nearly paid off (by their own money earned from working) and said that they would not get involved with a man unless he owned his own home, had a good job and reasonable retirement savings.


1) Owns his own home - Yep (mortgage = $0)
2) Had a good job - Nope (on disability with decent income; decent according to me - $27K)
3) Reasonable retirement savings - According to their standards of what reasonable is, I would bet not.
 Brisco414
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 14
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 8:25:23 AM
No not a dealbreaker unless they're not financially responsible. Divorce sometimes brings hardship to both men and women. It's how they manage their finance is what matters most.

I've owned a few homes throughout the years. Currently I'm renting. I can afford to purchase another home but right now renting gives me the freedom of choosing where I want to eventually settle down when I retire.
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 10/8/2015
Msg: 15
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 8:45:22 AM

sealady111 :
If you have worked hard for your entire life, saved and been financially responsible......


I don't own a home, I prefer to rent. And I glad I didn't own any property during my second divorce, it was a living hell. I went away for a week for a work related training, and even though we'd agreed dividing our belongings, she took it all.


There are many reasons to not buy a home:

Financial:

A) Cash Gone. You have to write a big fat check for a downpayment. “But its an investment,” you might say to me. Historically this isn’t true. Housing returned 0.4% per year from from 1890 to 2004. And that’s just housing prices. It forgets all the other stuff I’m going to mention below. Suffice to say, when you write that check, you’re never going to see that money again. Because even when you sell the house later you’re just going to take that money and put it into another downpayment. So if you buy a $400,000 home, just say goodbye to $100,000 that you worked hard for. You can put a little sign on the front lawn: “$100,000 R.I.P.”

B) Closing costs. I forget what they were the last two times I bought a house. But it was about another 2-3% out the window. Lawyers, title insurance, moving costs, antidepressant medicine. It adds up. 2-3%.

C) Maintenance. No matter what, you’re going to fix things. Lots of things. In the lifespan of your house, everything is going to break. Thrice. Get down on your hands and knees and fix it! And then open up your checkbook again. Spend some more money. I rent. My dishwasher doesn’t work. I call the landlord and he fixes it. Or I buy a new one and deduct it from my rent. And some guy from Sears comes and installs it. I do nothing. The Sears repairman and my landlord work for me.

D) Taxes. There’s this myth that you can deduct mortgage payment interest from your taxes. Whatever. That’s a microscopic dot on your tax returns. Whats worse is the taxes you pay. So your kids can get a great education. Whatever.

E) You’re trapped. Lets spell out very clearly why the myth of homeownership became religion in the United States. Its because corporations didn’t want their employees to have many job choices. So they encouraged them to own homes. So they can’t move away and get new jobs. Job salaries is a function of supply and demand. If you can’t move, then your supply of jobs is low. You can’t argue the reverse, since new adults are always competing with you.

F) Ugly. Saying “my house is an investment” forgets the fact that a house has all the qualities of the ugliest type of investment:

1) Illiquidity. You can’t cash out whenever you want.
2) High leverage. You have to borrow a lot of money in most cases.
3) No diversification. For most people, a house is by far the largest part of their portfolio and greatly exceeds the 10% of net worth that any other investment should be.

Personal reasons to not own a house.

A) Trapped, part 2. Some people like to have roots. But I like things to change every once in awhile. Starting March, 2009 I was renting an apartment directly across the street from the New York Stock Exchange. It was fun. I’d look out the window and see Wall Street. How exciting! Before that I lived in The Chelsea Hotel with Chubb Rock. Last year we decided to relax and move a little north. Now I look out the window and see the Hudson River. And its quiet and I can walk along the river in the morning with no noise. It took us two weeks to pick a place and move. No hassles. I like to live a hassle-free life.

B) Walls. You can’t change the walls when you rent. A lot of people seem to want to tear down walls. Or paint them. Sometimes when you rent you can’t do these things. Well, make sure you have a landlord that lets you tear down walls. There must be some ancient evolutionary tic that makes us want to tear down walls or put nails in them or paint them. I don’t get it. I like the walls to stay right where they are.

C) Rent. People will argue that the price of the mortgage, maintenance taxes, etc is all baked into the price of rent. Sometimes this is true. But usually not.

D) Psychology. Look at your personal reasons for wanting to own. Do you feel like you can’t accomplish something in life until you own a house? Do you feel like its part of getting married and “Settling down”, i.e. creating a nest for your future children? For you, is it a part of becoming an adult. Is this what your parents taught you? Examine the real reasons you want to own and make sure they are coming from a good spot in your heart.

E) Your time. Do you really want to spend all that time working on your house? Is this where your time is best spent towards creating a happy and fulfilled life for yourself?

F) Choices. I feel when I rent I always have the choice to leave. To live wherever in the world I want whenever I want. Adventure becomes a possibility even if I never take advantage of it.

G) Stress. For me (not for everyone) owning a home equals stress. I saw what my parents went through at their worst moments owning a home. I saw what I and others went through in the Internet bust when I first owned a home. I saw what people went through in 2008. People were killing themselves. I don’t like that sort of stress. This is how I deal with stress.

H) Cash is king. I like cash in the bank. I like having access to it. I don’t like it all tied up in one illiquid investment. I want to fill a bathtub with all the dollar bills I would’ve used as a downpayment on a house. I want to bathe in that bathtub. I’m going to do that later today in fact.

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/03/why-i-am-never-going-to-own-a-home-again/
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 16
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 8:47:38 AM

I went away for a week for a work related training, and even though we'd agreed dividing our belongings, she took it all.


Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
 call_me_tater
Joined: 12/30/2014
Msg: 17
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 8:49:08 AM
I've never viewed home ownership as the marker for financial or personal success.
Around here, rent is higher than mortgages for similar digs.

Home ownership has serious financial implications. I bought mine 23 years ago for $100k. It's now worth more than double that, but the $300+k projected interest I will have paid means I paid over $400k for a possibly (based on market at any given time) $250k house...not a good return when you also figure in maintenance to maintain market value, plus the high property/school taxes here in NY that renters don't pay.

My home is in a highly desirable middle class neighborhood in the suburbs and will be easy to sell; the selling price will be much more than what I purchased it, but I will never get back a true profit.

Yes, a "good job" is important but what about the victims of downsizing who are working their way back up and have stable jobs that might not be their ideal?
Your friends might reject them today but chase them in a couple of years when their situation becomes attractive again?

What if someone just doesn't care for the burdens associated with ownership or prefers the amenities associated with many apartments such as pool, gym, maintenance, etc?

I own my home and my mortgage is much much lower than rentals of similar size.
At one point I considered renting out my good sized home for additional income and living in a small apartment.

But I love my big fenced yard, the freedom to do as I please with the inside, not paying extra for each animal I have...
I like gardening and cutting the grass, and enjoy my pool with those I invite over, like the storage of my basement and garage, my driveway, and my conveniently placed washer/dryer that is not coin operated.

I have the time to maintain it all.
We are each different and have different needs.

It's shallow to judge based on own vs rent, material goods such as driving a Chevy vs BMW, how many toys, retirement savings, etc.
I suppose your friends want similar or better, but may miss out on perfectly compatible men who may not be in the perfect place?
Better to look at whether someone lives within their means, is independent (age appropriate), has goals and integrity, and is a good person.
That lowly renter also might very well have a bigger retirement, more savings, more investments...

You better be the "whole package" yourself before judging others.
What if a man looks at your shoe closet and decides you are frivolous and thinks that money should have gone into your 401k? Sees your toys and thinks you're not responsible enough? Looks at your home and decides you will be too busy with it (time wise and $ wise) and sees that as a deal breaker?

I view my home ownership similar to leasing a car. At the end of my payments, I own something free and clear vs having to give it back--possibly with losing more money for wear and tear.
Then again I tend to keep things and only replace when necessary. My truck is 13 yrs old and going strong...am I judged because I don't have the latest model and does it mean I am poor?
 Paladin2015
Joined: 5/29/2015
Msg: 18
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 9:37:05 AM
I'm still in our house.....hoping she will quit claim the deed and go for a disilusionment.....cuz if I have to sell it there wont be much left over...she didnt take anything....she left with a trunk full of clothes in the 2009 impala LT2 I bought her for her 41st birthday(paid cash) and never looked back...

Her moms furniture is still here, her furniture is still here...she didnt even take more than a couple pictures.....and carefully sorted any pics of me out....

Hell I just handed her a box of her mom's jewelry just last week.
 VolkanoKing
Joined: 8/1/2014
Msg: 19
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 10:17:57 AM
"If you have worked hard for your entire life, saved and been financially responsible, is it important that your partner be the same?"

This is a great question. And for me, the answer is yes.

It's all about shared values, and money is *such* an important factor. I tend to be very practical about relationships and I consider where a man is in his life..and how did he end up there, good or bad. Owning a home is not necessary, but *a history of financial responsibility* is. Keeping jobs. Doing well at jobs. Managing debt. Saving for retirement. It reflects so much on how a man feels about himself (I dated one guy who ended up telling me he was $15,000 in debt because of bar tabs...turned out he was an alcoholic) and how he is investing in himself, and if his behavior lends itself to someone who is interested in coupling or just being a bachelor/single.

This is also why I have no interest in "younger men." I've already lived thru my 20's and 30's and the career/financial goals you set for yourself. I am interested now, at almost 50 with an almost paid off house, to meet people who have "traveled the road."

Someone made a very good point to me that when you are younger, relationships are a start up. When you are older and have assets, it's more like a merger.

Finances, if you expect to interweave lives, are incredibly important.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 10:30:48 AM
It would depend on why they did or didn't own their own home, etc. Renting makes more sense for a lot of people, etc. And if you both have everything already, and you decide to marry/live together, who has to give up what? Sometimes it's much easier if one isn't all tied down. It's always going to depend on why they are where they are in life.
 Seki1949
Joined: 9/4/2013
Msg: 21
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History
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 10:55:15 AM

In the end, it wasn't the money he spent but rather the fact that he lied, ignoring me and my concerns so frequently.


Summarizes the end of my second marriage. I was married, I wanted to be married, I thought I was set for life.

$33,000 in unknown credit card debt that I discovered by accident. It would have been better if she had cheated on me.
Stealing from me is the unforgivable sin.

$33,000 in unknown credit card debt! How could I not know? I knew something wasn't right, but not the extent of it. How could I not know? Would be impossible to explain to strangers.
 ClooneysTutor
Joined: 10/14/2015
Msg: 22
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 11:06:23 AM
Irony at its best.

Older gals claiming to be invisible to men their age, yet also stating they've met hundreds of men they deemed not worthy of them.

You made yourselves invisible by hiding behind a mortgage or yacht. Ruling out men with a past. Men that chose partners that earned less then them.

I'll say this though, I'm somewhat grateful that the shagging happens before the ledger talks.

Go ahead and bring up the ledger talks before the shagging and let us know how that works.




Comments like "He doesn't even have his own home. Nope!!!"
Ages of the ladies ranged from 50 - 60.


And how many of these gals put this dealbreaker on their profiles?

Uh huh. Zilch.

Regarding the 32 year old, something sounds amiss. Possibly the 50ish guy is sterile?

I could see not wanting kids a deal breaker for her, but the mortgage? Yeah, her heart was really in this guy.

He was silly to think he could win over a younger woman with a mortgage. Who wants to win the affection of a mortgage seeking entity?



 Whatsamatterbaby
Joined: 5/6/2015
Msg: 23
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 11:27:30 AM

Home ownership a dealbreaker?


Well now, let's see... I was with a man who owned several homes. And paid his employees minimum wage. I'll settle fewer homes and more altruism, thanks.
 bAc0nflav0redbac0n
Joined: 10/10/2015
Msg: 24
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 11:28:20 AM
I own two homes. I'm also fiscally responsible. I also have tenants in one of my home, responsible section 8 family who maintains my property and keeps it occupied.

Not everybody who's fiscally responsible owns a home.

Does the man have respect for himself? Does he pay his bills in a timely fashion? Does he take out less than he can afford? Does he maintain what he already has with pride and dignity? Does he like his job or find satisfaction in things that he does if he can't work because of disability? Does he struggle to pay for his family's medical bills, but still manages?

I look for overall stability and responsibility. It's more complex than what's in his bank account.
 spot4username
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 25
Home ownership a dealbreaker?
Posted: 10/18/2015 12:12:27 PM
I am dirt poor. I have made sure that through the years any man who was thinking of dating me was crystal clear on that fact. I pay my own way in life. That is all I would ask from a man - be able to take care of yourself.
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