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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Expected media response to Paris attacks: "Islamophobia" Propaganda a      Home login  
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 gurufabbes
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 1
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: "Islamophobia" Propaganda and SpinPage 1 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
So after these attacks, let's go through the usual shpil of media bullshit that our minds will be corrupted with to placate the righteous anger of the civilized world.

--"terrorism has no religion" and "no amalgamations » (pas d’amalgames) » Such attacks are equally likely from Buddhist and Hindu terror groups

- "Islamophobia": The real problem and real evil in the world is not Islamist terrorists indisciminately murdering hundreds of people: It's US (Yes, YOU) and the fact that some Muslims in the West feel uncomfortable boarding a bus, whether or not anything real has happened.

-"self-victimization": The evil West brought this on itself through not doing enough to help the Al Nusra Front and ISIS topple the secular Bashar Al Assad government. It's not the fault of the terrorists that they can't keep their hands to themselves, but our stubborn refusal to cave into their demands.

-"It's not us": It's actually noone. Noone supports these terrorists. Essentially martians landed and started massacring innocent people twice in Paris. To show irrefutable evidence of this proposition, we will have random amateur commentators from certain, ostensibly Muslim-looking, backgrounds tell us how horrible it is and how much they condemn it. And by "it" they mean "any crime against humanity" for a cause that they personally do not believe in, generally.

-"Help for refugees": See these attacks? Now you see what they're fleeing from? See, racist Europeans? The solution is to let millions into Europe who will do the exact same thing and have us all share in the equality of equal exposure to violent barbarism.

-"Refugees are not terrorists" (Sequel to "Refugees -Welcome") Never mind that at least 2 of the attackers were among the throngs of illegal migrants and that there may be many more. The other 90% of the illegal invaders that you didn't vote to let into your country and live off the social system that your parents and grandparents worked and died in 2 world wars for, probably are not.... yet.

-"the far right is taking political advantage of the attacks" When someone accurately predicts an outcome (months and years in advance), we would usually have to admit that they are right, right? Wrong, if they are far right. Then they are far wrong. Get it?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me know if I've left any out. But this should be about right, based on what occurred in January. And on 911.. and pretty much any and every terrorist attack committed by a particular group of people that one may not name, lest one be labelled.
 SheldonCooper02
Joined: 5/8/2015
Msg: 2
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/14/2015 8:08:29 PM
I always say after a terrorist attack, ask yourself a question:
Who benefit from the attack ?

Actions taken by US, France (to a lesser degree), EU, NATO and their justifications
will tell us who benefited.

Russia already showed us whose little child ISIS is.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 3
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 3:41:53 AM
gurufabbes

That is why the Dems will lose if they don't change their acts. They need to get out of the clouds and stop surrounding themselves by old hippies ( and wanna be hippies) and discover the actual pulse of the country. They need to see reality.

I still wonder whether there is some benefit to them from all of this that is not apparent. They can't be THIS delusional and self destructive or self-hating, can they?

Maybe it is just basic fear?

Instead of limousine liberals maybe they should be called helicopter liberals, i.e., if there is a problem a helicopter will whisk them away while the regular people remain in the stadium, so they don't really give a care about the consequences of their decisions.

Or like some of the posters here, they spend a few hours a day among the "down trodden" and then head back to their own version of sanctuary cities ( walled or extra suburban, bedroom communities, no low income housing areas.) and tsk tsk those who don't welcome these"migrants."

Dems should have already learned that polling, in this climate of being attacked if not giving the PC statement, people will not share with pollster their actual feelings or how they will actually vote ( See Kentucky governor race).

There is a lot brewing among people of all demographics that does not bode well for Dems unless they wake up.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 4
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 7:00:47 AM
OK, to play the Devil's Advocate on my way out the door:

Yes, such attacks are equally likely from Buddhist or Hindu terrorist gr0ups. The most suicide bombings recorded come from the Tamil Tigers.
Europe went thru a wave of terrorism in the 1970's. Italian Red Brigades, French Direct Action, and other groups who were...white middle class college students with Communist support, waving its red flag. Europe's been here before.
Who supports the Sunni terrorists? well, there have been some traces back to...our allies in Saudi Arabia and other Sunni OPEC countries. Do we drop a nuke on their oil wells?
8 million refugees, and 2 may have dropped their passports in France. That's an interesting ratio.
From the bombing of the Maine to Operation Northwood to the Gulf of Tonkin, there's been a history of belligerent, far right wingers taking advantage where they can find it. or, perhaps, where they create it.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 5
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 7:46:41 AM
See guru-
That is the mentality that we are dealing with.


And a song I heard today that further illustrates what we are dealing with as far as mentality.

"New Americana"

Cigarettes and tiny liquor bottles,
Just what you'd expect inside her new Balenciaga.
Vile romance, turned dreams into an empire.
Self-made success now she rolls with Rockefellers.

Survival of the richest, the city's ours until the fall.
They're Monaco and Hamptons bound, but we don't feel like outsiders at all.

We are the new Americana,
High on legal marijuana,
Raised on Biggie and Nirvana,
We are the new Americana.

Young James Dean, some say he looks just like his father,
But he could never love somebody's daughter.
Football team loved more than just the game
So he vowed to be his husband at the altar.

Survival of the richest, the city's ours until the fall.
They're Monaco and Hamptons bound but we don't feel like outsiders at all.

We are the new Americana,
High on legal marijuana,
Raised on Biggie and Nirvana,
We are the new Americana.

We know very well who we are, so we hold it down when summer starts.
What kind of dough have you been spending?
What kind of bubblegum have you been blowing lately?

We are the new Americana,
High on legal marijuana,
Raised on Biggie and Nirvana,
We are the new Americana.
We are the new Americana,
High on legal marijuana,
Raised on Biggie and Nirvana,
We are the new Americana.
Oh oh
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 6
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 8:13:48 AM
Substituting one kind of propaganda and self-delusion for another, especially on the grounds that it "feels right," is pitiful, irresponsible, and even more destructive than the common "media takes" on all of this.

Most of what I'm seeing so far, isn't the result of either careful study, or of logical thinking. Coming to any real understanding of why people behave as they do, requires a great deal more work than either the loudmouths of the press, or the loudmouths USING the press to COMPLAIN about the media have demonstrated they even realize is needed.

The situation in the Middle East, and the way it has shown up elsewhere in the world, has a VERY deep and VERY complicated history to it. Posturing about how angry WE are that people have attacked us is not more rational or responsible than the attacks themselves.

Pretty much all of the OP's listed "usual shpil of media bullshit" are, in fact, entirely inaccurate. They are purposeful misreadings and misinterpretations of some things that actually have been said, with a few pure right-wing propaganda talking points sprinkled in.

One example:


-"It's not us": It's actually noone. Noone supports these terrorists. Essentially martians landed and started massacring innocent people twice in Paris.


No one has said what the OP claims has been said. Some HAVE pointed out that not all, or even a majority of Muslims are terrorists, or support them in any way. Pretending that this means that anyone has declared that NO ONE supports the terrorists, is a lie.
 gurufabbes
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 7
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 8:21:19 AM
"OP's listed "usual shpil of media bullshit" are, in fact, entirely inaccurate. They are purposeful misreadings and misinterpretations of some things that actually have been said"

Or they could be a very blunt but accurate reading from someone who was living there back in January and saw all of the ensuing local media coverage. Food for thought.

"Coming to any real understanding of why people behave as they do"

I don't particularly want to understand why bloodthirsty obscurantists murder innocent people in the heart of Europe. I want them wiped out.
The media shouldn't relativise the danger and threat but rather might be better off sounding the alarm and letting us know who the enemy is.
 Orione7
Joined: 12/22/2014
Msg: 8
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 10:31:06 AM
Israel and Amerika are evil.... oh wait that should be a headline..
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 9
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 1:51:03 PM
Seems to me like ISIS is Islam's tea party. The most rigid, scared, backward looking crew trying to run the whole meghillah.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 10
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 2:13:40 PM
It's not about "Islamophobia" unless you choose to believe it is.

This and other deals were bound to bite back: http://www.madamasr.com/news/economy/sisi-weapons-deal-be-financed-french-govt

Sisi: Weapons deal to be financed by French govt
Sunday, March 1, 2015 - 17:18

By: Mada Masr

Go after the war profiteers; oil tygoons, banksters, political puppets, arms dealers, weapons manufacturers, war chemists , lobbyists, greedo financiers and start putting them in jail!! It is the only way to end war.

Blaming each other, the down trodden or nut bar religious "radicals" only tells the "big boys" you are fine covering their azz, going to war for them, being lied to, being coerced, being taxed, shoved over, being conned , bombed etc.
Quit giving them any support and quit backing their murderous ways by falling for their b.s. supporting trade deals, electing them over and over, and quit minding their bushiness's for them and doing their dirty work/fighting for them.

Follow the money and the "deals" and "contributions"/super pacs/bribes. Never mind the hate speech/propaganda.

These types that are the real pros at making regular folk "collateral damage" and turning "them" into radicals/fanatics.

They used them, turned on them. Do you think you will be/are any different?

The greedos all share the same "god" first and foremost...the almighty $.

Lest we forget.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 11
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 5:07:25 PM
#9


I don't particularly want to understand why bloodthirsty obscurantists murder innocent people in the heart of Europe. I want them wiped out.


Bloke, you got a lot to learn!

Part 1.
Take the statement for example:

I don't particularly want to understand why bloodthirsty a)_____________ murder innocent people in the heart of b)_____________. I want them wiped out.

Insert the following words into the above blanks a) Infidels b) middle east.

Now that you've managed to do that, now picture some poor shepherd or farmer who just got the $hit bombed outta of his house & property somewhere in the ME, or afghanistan by an F16 or drone.

The shoe being on the other foot, you can now see how some pple on the other side might feel about you.
No, I'm not justifying acts of terror, not at all!
but the killing of innocents is not exclusive to one side only.

Part 2.


but rather might be better off sounding the alarm and letting us know who the enemy is.


well, they can safely say that its a segment of the Muslim population
How do you tell the extremists apart from the regular folks, I dunno
But these are largely the same population of pple, who you have been letting into your country for decades to work in low scale/paying jobs; and whose presence you didn't mind one bit as long as they kept themselves in place.

Good luck in "wiping them out"
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 12
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 5:50:56 PM
gurufabbles- "The media shouldn't relativise the danger and threat but rather might be sounding the alarm and letting is know who the enemy is."
No.
The medias job is to report, not to look for the enemy.
Besides, they report whatever sells, whatever is grabbing attention right then.
Meh, I believe VERY little I hear/see in the media.
Bomb the shit out them?
Interesting strategy.
Bomb who?
Our enemies are numerous.
I'm not ok with collateral damage.
Does it happen, sure it does, will it contuse to happen, yes it will, but to knowingly espouse "bomb the shit of out them" is just wrong headed and not wise.
The truth is, given the number of groups that hate us, is that they can strike anywhere, any time and they aren't going to send us a memo first.
The best thing we can do is continue intelligence, keep our military ready and strike when and where they operate.
We have to protect military bases and keep security high at other obvious targets. (if 9-11 should have taught us anything, it's that)
Terrorists are awful people, but the problem didn't start yesterday and it can't be solved overnight.
Be careful what you endorse in your anger. It is too easy to become like the very thing you are angry about.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 13
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 6:46:54 PM
Just for S&G's, here's a video of the shooting at the concert:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/nov/15/paris-attacks-footage-shows-moment-shooting-starts-in-bataclan-theatre-video?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook

Its dark and its crowded...wonder how many civilians practicing "punching paper" in these conditions. Seems similar to that Colorado movie theatre shooting.

as for what ISIS might be planning:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 14
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 6:48:40 PM
Message 1 ...
Let me know if I've left any out.
Yeah ... you left out the "X-tians" ... you know, the ones who went into Iraq and Afghanistan and got rid of all the people who were keeping "al qaeda" out and trying to pass out bibles to convert the populace. Remember them?

(By the way, you misspelled "schpil" If you're going to use a word, the least you could do is learn to spell it correctly. Spiel.)

What makes any of you think those "X-tian" soldiers played no role in all of this? We indoctrinate the troops and send them on their way. We poison them against the very people we send them in to help and even encourage them to break the laws of those countries and distribute "X-tian" propaganda!

Message 2 ...
... we either lead the fight to crush Islamic terrorism or we learn to live with periodic attacks on our own soil.
What about other types of "terrorism"? Are you promoting we fight all types of "terrorism" or is your emphasis just going to be on the Muslims?

Message 5 ...
... there's been a history of belligerent, far right wingers taking advantage where they can find it. or, perhaps, where they create it.
Yeah ... see they're not gonna own that. "Far right wingers" don't seem to think they'd do anything like that.

Message 9 ...
... and letting us know who the enemy is.
The enemy? You wouldn't be able to see the enemy if you stumbled on it ... not even if your life depended on it!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 15
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 7:32:15 PM
Some of ISIS's funding was robbing the banks in the cities they took over. Then there was the black market sales of the historical statues/art/etc that they didn't destroy. Also there were million-dollar ransoms paid for non-American journalists by their governments (America doesn't pay, but the families might have).

If memory serves, ISIS doesn't speak on behalf of the Muslim population, but on a radical branch of Sunni Wahabism (sic). Al Quada, ironically, had issues with using Afgan opium for a money source b/c Mohammed had mentioned something about poisoning of the body (can't remember the full line about it). Some hewed to the belief, others of course strayed...and others went down the middle with counterfeit OTC drugs.
 gurufabbes
Joined: 9/22/2010
Msg: 16
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/15/2015 10:37:51 PM

(By the way, you misspelled "schpil" If you're going to use a word, the least you could do is learn to spell it correctly. Spiel.)


And burn... oh. Except for the little fact that it's not a German word I'm using here.
And shpil is the way it's written. And you actually just misspelled that as well... but who cares?

I love when people come around with the little knowledge they have, all proud of themself, and then come out looking more stupid.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 17
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 5:37:59 AM
I wonder whether some of you would apologize to or make excuses for a home invader or street robber who killed your child and dog.

"Sorry I have a home" " sorry I put your robbing or murdering comrades in jail."
"Sorry I have things worth stealing" "sorry that I am breathing"

Some after being robbed would scream, "It's the Christians," always hilarious.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 18
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 6:50:05 AM
True. Some people need it to happen to them

Some would still apologize.

The French left who put them in this position said that. Even some MSNBC and some CNN reporters are Now freely saying Islamic terrorism.

As one man said, nothing that you could do to anyone would justify anyone killing your relatives and pets and blowing up your house.
 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 19
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 7:38:01 AM
I am going to quote Hillary here. She said something like this "Containment does not work, ISIS needs to be eliminated."
Again I paraphrase because I heard it in the radio.

What that means, is that now that France is in, create a coalition force, kind of like what Bush Father did on the 90's Golf War, instead of the son's unilateral, weapons of mass deception, war. Put boots on the ground and completely destroy ISIS. Then create a Neutral zone, so refuges can begin to go back. But more importantly, it's time to find and expose their sources of money and prosecute those sources. So some of those untouched Saudi's or oil magnates that secretly support these groups need to be put to justice.

Defuse the narrative of hate. To do that, Palestine needs to have their own sovereign nation. That is also for the best interest of Israel. As it is, Palestine are not allowed to vote in the state of Israel, and have no representation. So if they were to annex to Israel and given rights, they would have enough power to vote and change Parliament in Israel. They do not want that, so to be fair, they should give then the right of self rule. There should be some sort of a treaty where where the Arab world accepts the existence of Israel as well. I know that hell will freeze over before this would happen. But anything done unilaterally will be seen as an act of weakness by Israel, and thus giving these other nations, such as Iran more bravado.
 OswaldSpengler
Joined: 11/8/2015
Msg: 20
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 7:55:57 AM
As several White Nations , Poland , Hungry and Slovakia bravely assert their independence and stand their ground ; the answer to islamo terror is simple. DON'T LET THEM IN. Japan does not have an islam problem. Japan is not multi cultural. Very Simple. The right to self rule.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 21
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 8:23:16 AM
Message 21 ...

What about other types of "terrorism"? Are you promoting we fight all types of "terrorism" or is your emphasis just going to be on the Muslims?

Yes, on both counts. We fight terrorism where- and whenever we are capable of doing so ...

Sooo ... anytime, anywhere we have used "terrorism" on others ... should we also fight that?

How about the "terrorism" that we reigned down on the Muslims by the fact that we illegally went into their countries and murdered, maimed and mutilated hundreds of thousands of innocents, poisoned them and their land with illegal bombs? Does that count as the type of "terrorism" we should fight? No?

Then, does it include the kind of "terrorism" the Palestinians endure from the IDF on a daily basis? Should we perhaps fight that? (That would be fighting ourselves too ... after all, we support it ... right?)


... yes, I would put an emphasis on Islamic terrorism since it is, to borrow a phrase, a clear and present danger.

Is that the same type of "clear and present danger" found by the "Dumbya/Gumpya"/"D1ck the Torturer" administration? You know, when they told us about the "clear and present danger" of the WMD's?

I wonder if we did anything to bring on any kind of hard feelings from the Muslim population? I wonder if any of it might have been antagonized by the "X-tians" who openly antagonize the Muslims with the burning of their holy books, the attempts at converting them and indoctrinating them (in their own countries) by illegally distributing "X-tian" bibles and other religious propaganda?

I wonder if it was right of us to train our military to hate Muslims and then send them to Muslim countries for them to call them despicable names, treat them in demeaning ways? I can't imagine that would eventually backfire on us ... eh?


Expected media response ...
I keep hoping that they'll finally get it right, but it's owned by the kind of people who want to keep things stirred up and steer the public away from whats really going on in the world. Have you ever seen the media actually tell the truth about what we did in Iraq?
 OswaldSpengler
Joined: 11/8/2015
Msg: 22
Dieversity. Genocide or Suicide?
Posted: 11/16/2015 8:40:05 AM
The most acceptable muslim would be an individual wishing to remain in THEIR homeland and better THEIR exsistence.
 high-ground
Joined: 6/16/2013
Msg: 23
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 9:05:39 AM
Cotter #29,

How many babies have you thrown out with the bathwater ?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 24
Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 9:34:03 AM
Indeed, the Iraqi invasion and destabilization, planned a month after we were already in Afganistan:

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/print.htm
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/doc03.pdf
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB326/doc08.pdf

likely led us to here and now, and we'd like to avoid doing that mistake twice. Invasion opened a literal Pandora's Box. George H.W. Bush likely didn't continue in 1991 to Saddam's door b/c he might have seen that SH kept the Shi'a and Sunni from going at each other. For sure, letting a Shi'a government get into power that would go after the Sunni made Sunnis think that alQuada or an equivalent was a good buffer to the arrests etc the Iraqi Shi'a government were doing.

The genie is now out of the bottle, sure. But, we do need to consider, after we take out ISIS...what follows? What do we do to keep another genie from bubbling up in its own bottle, waiting to be uncorked? Maybe thinking about where we want to end up, gives us a direction to go in. For example, if we think we want to end with Iraq in three pieces, then maybe we get support from Iran promising them one piece, from Sunnis promising them their own piece, and the Kurds their own.

A nationalist threat, like Nazism, is easier to battle than to go against fighters fighting for an ideology. Nationalists just want a country. ISIS seems to want more than a caliphate. They believe in purifying. They'll slaughter other Muslim faiths and interpretations as easily as they'll go after those outside their brand of religion.

So do we pull a WW2 and all gang up against them? If we do, allies will want something. Drawing up territory on a c0cktail napkin is what got us here initially in the 1940's. Will it work this time? Or do we need another carrot? simply offering to help out against ISIS, you'd think that would be enough, but likely it won't. the best time to get a deal out of the government is before you sign the papers, and likely our allies in a battle will say, "hmm, since we have you here...what else can we get?"

do we open up a second front....on their idealogy? Instead of going after a group that claims,"hey, they're out to get us"--which, duh, proves their message is the true message-- and then they get replaced by yet another group, as al Quada did, replaced by a group that used modern internet tech to get a message out rather than release a video on Aljazeera, what if we could use their status as "The voice of the radicals" to discredit the ideology...we might find that they start falling from within as we try to take them from without. Let them become like the Soviets and the Nazis, where their message starts being seen by the faithful as propaganda lies.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 25
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Expected media response to Paris attacks: Islamophobia Propaganda and Spin
Posted: 11/16/2015 9:47:43 AM
Message 32 ...
Cotter~ that is type of words Isis are using in order to recruit and is getting more bombings in Syria not less
Sorry if that's the way you see it, but disregarding how ISIS cam about will not make it any easier to tackle it.

It's sort of like mold. No matter how many times you wash it away, until you find and eliminate the source, you will have the mold.

Their attacks and the types of attacks are nothing new to civilization. Our own minutemen could be categorized as "terrorists in present day. They were private colonists who independently organized to form well-prepared militia companies self-trained in weaponry, tactics and military strategies. That's what "terrorists do.

The misguided feel they are acting from injustices~ the guided are aware that they are doing no such thing
The guided? Who would that be?

The on-going antagonism we are contributing to will just fuel the fire. We are openly supporting the antagonism that fuels ISIS ... just as we openly support terrorism in other countries.

So what is our stance? Do as we say, not as we do? That's BS.

Do you think for one minute the things we do in the world and the way we treat others do not add fuel to the fire?

I'm just pointing out what is fueling the fire.

Why should we ignore our on-going contribution to this whole mess?

To the posts below ...
Message 35 ...
Cotter,
Your hatred and intolerance of Christians in some of your posts is apparent.
Hatred? Nope ... I just don't think it should have anything to do with with the actions we take in the world.

I could care less about "X-tians" one way or the other ... but as long as it is allowed to rule our military and foreign relations ... we will have a problem.

Are you really going to deny that we did not send bibles to be distributed in Muslim countries? Do you not see that as a form of antagonism?

We do not need "religion" of any kind in order to conduct ourselves appropriately in the world.

Message 36 ...
Good grief. Our military agonizes over whether a couple of family goats might become collateral damage...nevermind innocents who might be nearby.

Our military mows down entire towns with no regard to innocents who might be in them. How do you justify that?
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