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Joined: 11/10/2015
Msg: 2
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The question of "who pays" is a minefield around here so watch out for 'incoming'. The only rule I know of anymore is that there aren't any rules anymore.

Her upset at you bringing up the topic is a clue to her personality and you may want to file it away for future reference.

Have you suggested dates where there is no cost involved and how did she react? Has she brought you cookies yet? And snogging? Have you entered that arena?

Can't wait to see how this thread plays out :)
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 1:59:03 PM
When?? I like to think that right in the beginning - but if she hasn't mentioned anything by dates 3 - 5... then [I feel] that's a pretty good time to consider how much you're willing to invest in her and to bring it up.
Me being me, I would have been insisting on 'dutch' from first date... however that's just me...

When I did go out on two dates with a gentleman who insisted on paying for both, despite my strongest objections at the second date... I knew he wasn't listening to me or respecting my opinion and I knew we weren't going to be a match (there were other reasons on his part too, but the fiscal issues were one of mine)
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 5
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 2:02:24 PM
The problem is that you've have already set the precedent of always paying, so she now expects it.

I personally find women like that annoying users. They also at times will offer to pay, but only to test you to see if you are what they call a real man and puts them in their place and offer to pay.

The best way to put them in their place, and still be a the gentleman, is tell them, this one is on me, you buy drinks on the next venue. If they get offended by that, then you got yourself a juicy gold digger that wants to milk you for all you got, instead of true partner.
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 6
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 2:05:42 PM

I've taken a woman on ten dates over a period of five weeks. None of the dates were expensive ($20-$70) but she has never offered to chip in or pay.

Have you used any coupons yet?
(That's an inside joke here on the forums)

None of the dates were expensive ($20-$70)

I wonder what you do consider expensive, then.

who pays

The closest thing around here to a "rule" about who pays is that generally, the person who asks for the date pays.

Now, then you have the problem of what type of date you're going to pay for.
Some women do judge you by the amount of money you spend on a date. And whether you use coupons.

My view is that whoever pays gets to determine how much gets spent, since it's their money.
Fortunately, here in Southern California, it is possible to find all sorts of free activities (even involving food sometimes), so a guy could date a "traditional" woman (who expects the guy to pay all the time), and still not be forced into a string of expensive dates while getting to know someone.

And use COUPONS wherever you can.

Can't wait to see how this thread plays out :)

I did my part.
Joined: 9/20/2015
Msg: 8
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 2:25:25 PM
WooHoo! A Who Pays thread! Just in time for Xmas!

Let the reindeer games begin! :D
Joined: 12/18/2015
Msg: 9
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 2:27:03 PM
I always use the “he/she who asks, pays” rule. Additionally, if he invites/pays for dinner, I offer a). to leave the tip or b). drinks/coffee at the next place we head off to. After 10 dates, I surely would have issued an invite to one of my favorite restaurants or at the very least offered a home-cooked meal. She sounds kinda selfish.
Joined: 9/9/2015
Msg: 11
view profile
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 2:37:02 PM

To be fair, I should point out that she has offered to cook for me. In fact, we've cooked for each other. Again, everything about the relationship has been wonderful except when the restaurant check arrives.

Then let it go.
Joined: 8/19/2008
Msg: 12
view profile
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 2:46:38 PM
To answer your question, zero. Any woman who accepts a date, should pay her own share. I figure stop asking her out to dates and do the cook at home thing. I am not sure where you want this to go or even if you are in a relationship with her, but in the old, traditional ways that she is so fond of, wouldn't you two be married by now?
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 13
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 2:47:13 PM
Take her to McDonalds and say "This is what I can afford at the moment."
Joined: 6/28/2014
Msg: 14
view profile
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:00:58 PM
I usually offer to pay my share. Normally I am told no. Or I just reach for my wallet and again, am told "I got this"
One got angry at me "don't you think I can afford to take you out??" He claimed I publically embarrassed him
So, it can get awkward and honestly I not sure how to act anymore.
For the record, I have no problem whatsoever paying my share.

Perhaps it is something to discuss before even going to the restaurant.

I have cooked and baked in return on many occasions. The time, cost of ingredients and effort has often surpassed a restaurant ( I don't just throw hot dogs and fries together :) )

So -If she has offered to cook for you,, that is probably her way of repaying you for the restaurant dinners

Let it go
Joined: 12/3/2015
Msg: 15
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:04:42 PM

To be fair, I should point out that she has offered to cook for me. In fact, we've cooked for each other. Again, everything about the relationship has been wonderful except when the restaurant check arrives.

At what stage of the relationship are you?

Have you kissed, got intimate, had wild sex already?

There's a point in any relationship where you both contribute to the activities that you have together. There has been several women that I did not mind paying for the simple reason that right off the bat, she had already dropped 50 to 60 bucks on baby-sitters, so to ask her to pay would be too much. But those are things that are discussed. That are shared. Even old fashioned women understand that and they are willing to contribute to the activities.
Joined: 11/7/2015
Msg: 16
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:04:59 PM
Well, I certainly hope the woman is putting out. Kidding. Nice man: I think it depends on the cohort. I find that men my age (45, give or take) or younger are fine with me paying, but that men ten or so years older than me insist upon paying - probably because they're closer to a time when women were a bit more likely to forsake careers for domestic duties. Was your lady friend a stay at home mom? If not, then I have to say, she's just being a bit of a twa- I mean princess.
Joined: 12/18/2015
Msg: 17
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:06:36 PM
“‘To be fair, I should point out that she has offered to cook for me. In fact, we've cooked for each other. Again, everything about the relationship has been wonderful except when the restaurant check arrives.’

Then let it go.”

Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 18
view profile
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:08:02 PM
Does it matter what we think?

She has cooked for you and done other things that you interpreted as her wanting to please you. You are still upset because she won't offer to pay for dinners at restaurants. How is what we think going to change that?

You seem to have addressed this with her and she won't see it your way, so apparently you are not on the same page with her. I suppose you could just stop taking her out to restaurant dinners and do other things instead. That might take care of your resentment over her unwillingness to get the check. But it sounds as if the only solution that would satisfy you is if she changed her mind and did what you wanted her to do. So maybe it's one of those "apart from that one deal breaker everything is wonderful" situations. It sounds as if you'd both rather be right than happy.
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 19
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:17:39 PM

So -If she has offered to cook for you,, that is probably her way of repaying you for the restaurant dinners

Let it go

I agree---provided that the OP was a guest in her home, and she purchased the ingredients and used her own electricity/gas to prepare the foods.
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 20
view profile
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:18:39 PM

I've taken a woman on ten dates over a period of five weeks.

I dunno, 2 dates a week is strong, but not super-strong. So you've been seeing her for 5 weeks, off to a good start from the get-go. "Hitting it off", I guess (in and out of the bedroom I hope!).

None of the dates were expensive ($20-$70) but she has never offered to chip in or pay.

Yeah, that's not the best sign -- but what is her financial situation? I think the gesture to at least pay for a few drinks when going to another place after dinner is just as conservative-culturally-ethical as a guy paying for dates when a gal isn't poor or anything. So you do have a reason to raise your eyebrow if she can hold her own in life.

I brought this up after date ten and she took offense, said it was too soon for me to start complaining.

Ahhh, you shouldn't be Complaining though. The key is how to bring it up. Initially on the introductory dates, you say "Here, I'll get this." Women will appreciate it to varying degrees, but it sounds like this one has a bit of Entitlement Syndrome. But she would have at least been reminded that hey, he is treating me. Ok. After the introductory dates you asked her out on, you do this: "Here, I'll get this," like you have, but aim to go to another place like a bar/tavern down the road, and say "I'm going to the bathroom, can you get me a Bud Light?" Now, if a gal is going to flip out about that (silently to herself or outloud), and you don't want that kind of gal, you just did a weeding process. But you fairly set the stage not to take anyone by surprise by saying "Here, I'll get this," on the first couple weeks of dates.

My question: How many dates should a man pay for before the woman contributes?

Her "too soon" line was BS, by the way. Date #10? Over a month of dating? You're past the introductory phase. You're not Asking to Take Her Out anymore -- that's when it's past the introductory phase, and a gal should be contributing out of decency/normalcy to separate herself from those with Entitlement Syndrome.

And when is it appropriate to bring it up?

You could bring it up before your 10th date. There's no universal time line; that depends on how well you two have meshed. But you can bring it up another way: Coffee talk about guys & girls -- and you're happily buying when you're out and talking about it. Steer conversation about the dating world a bit and guy/girl stuff -- things with humor among other things. And bring it up about paying and say you like the guy to have the foot in front to pay by default, and always in the introductory dates when he Asks to Take Her Out, but just like some guys wanting it to always be unconventionally split Down The Middle Each Time which is weird -- I also think a gal who's financially OK in life to Never contribute on dates when they're starting to date is just as weird too."

Much the same as if you're talking about Michigan vs Michigan State football, where she may like UM, but you might be a bit more of a Mich State fan. Handle it right, it's just conversation to feel each other out... just don't drop the snap and try to force the punt [see UM vs MSU football game this year]. ;)
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 22
the less attractive one
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:26:02 PM
I agree with the notion $20 isn't an expensive date...but everyone's mileage may vary. I also agree with IG's notion that she's been trained to accept the old fashioned idea that the man brings home the bacon, so he can afford to pay. I have a female friend I pay for, but she's easy on the eyes and I've gotten some free furniture from her, so in a way we are equal. I pay for parking at the beach, I get to see her in a bikini. I buy dinner, I get to enjoy her appearance and company. Not bad for $20. Likely men pay more for professional escorts :)

a bit of snoggin' would be nice, but eh, beggars can't be chosers, right? If we males get offended a lady doesn't pay (or pay enough), our choice is obvious--dump her and find someone who's head over heels for us. Why don't we do that? b/c we're hoping to keep putting quarters into the slot machine we have now and get a pay off.

it is what it is. what relationship is perfect? very rarely have I met people who wanted the pleasure of treating me to a dinner. for whatever reason, there aren't many people in this world who think spending money on someone else is a fun thing. At the end of the day, if its better than being alone...then that is what you are paying for. if you'd have a better time alone, then even $20 is expensive to pay for an evening you wish you were alone.
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 23
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 3:29:14 PM
After 4 - 5 dates is a sufficient amount dates for her to pick up the bill or invite you to things and paying the bill. It's not that hard to look up a man's favorite sports team, see when the next game is, invite him to a sports bar to watch the game, and buy him a meal for (if he's into sports).

A few years ago I was seeing someone who took me to see the U2 3D Concert movie and lunch afterward...and she paid for everything. This was date 5 or 6. I told her U2 was my favorite band I think on the first or second date. The fact she remembered that detail and planned a date around it was a nice a treat.
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 24
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 4:12:58 PM

To be fair, I should point out that she has offered to cook for me. In fact, we've cooked for each other. Again, everything about the relationship has been wonderful except when the restaurant check arrives.

Then let it go.

Or stop going to restaurants until it doesn't bother you anymore.

P.S. she has very selective "old fashioned values" if inviting you out (so she doesn't have to pay at a restaurant) is where she draws the line but she says yes to pre-marital snogging?
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 25
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 4:51:00 PM
I don't like the sound of it OP... And I don't like all this "getting offended" business. I like to begin contributing something starting with like the 2nd or 3rd date, if a man is nice and I like him.
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 26
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 5:24:50 PM
^^^That caught my attention too (the getting offended part), as well as the next part of the statement: "said it was too soon for me to start complaining." What the heck does that mean? To me, it has gold digger written all over it. The OP is going to be asking the same question after date #50 or date #100.
Joined: 4/16/2014
Msg: 27
view profile
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 5:53:12 PM
Markmywords23, the appropriate time to bring up something that's important to you is: whenever you feel it's appropriate.
If you let someone else tell you it's "too soon" or make you feel bad that you voiced something that was significant for you, then you have more problems than picking up the tab.

The whole "who pays" issue will be hotly contested--with opinions mostly divided by gender--but the only important one is how *you* feel about it. No one else here has to sit there at the table with you when the check comes and deal with the situation, only you.

Personally, as someone who's dated a bunch, I believe it is still the case that women expect the man to pick up the tab for the most part. Some will insist on splitting the bill on the first meet, but after that they will want to be taken care of. It's just how it is. So, I make it clear to women I date right up front--at least by the 3rd date--that I will not be their suitor. There must be a reasonable amount of reciprocity. We'll alternate taking each other out, or something to that effect. I have dumped otherwise good women for that very reason, that despite my clear view on the subject (and their initial agreement with it), over time they reveal themselves as expecting me to pick up the tab the majority of the time. Whether it is a test is irrelevant.

Stand up for who you are and what you feel regardless of how others feel about it.
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 28
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 5:56:06 PM
Opinions mostly divided by gender? I don't see that in this thread. Everyone agrees the girl is bad news.
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 29
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 6:06:57 PM
markmywords23- The person who does the inviting pays.
HOWEVER, 10 dates in and YOU are always the one asking AND paying?
My gold digger radar is ding, dinging.
She should have offered to go dutch by now, at the very least, by 10 dates most women would have taken a turn and paid for you both.
Maybe you should rethink whether or not you want to continue seeing this woman.
She doesn't sound like a very good person.
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 30
who pays
Posted: 12/22/2015 6:10:45 PM
It really doesn't matter what anyone here thinks.

You know how this relationship is going to go. If it works for you like that, even with reservations, then carry on. If it doesn't, then it's time to move on.
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