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 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 1
BrexitPage 1 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
Just throwin' a bone to Vlad here since apparently he isn't allowed to start threads.

I have stuff to say on this, but I'll wait and let Vlad make the first real post.

Okay. Apparently this has to be at least 200 characters or they won't accept it. So I will have my say.

I see real advantages and disadvantages to the EU. Lets face it, Europe was pretty much in an uninterrupted state of war since before the Romans. The EU makes everyone interdependent and that means nobody in invading anybody else. In terms of trade, it means that the whole EU is one big common market. That allows companies to grow the way American companies have grown in the past with one big domestic market.

But I get pretty damned leary about governing bodies that aren't directly accountable to the people. Brussels bureaucrats have inordinate power without any real checks. And the whole thing around the PIGS nations shows how tying your cart to every nation makes you vulnerable.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 2
Brexit
Posted: 2/22/2016 5:44:59 PM
I think it's usually stated as PIIGS..Portugal,
Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain..2 "I" countries with seriously lagging economies.
strange how there are the 2 opposing forces working..1 for more independence..e.g. what was once Yugoslavia morphed into 4 separate nations in a short time..Czechoslovakia became 2 separate countries..Scotland has many desiring to separate..

OTOH, the EC agglomeration.

FRG and DDR merging into 1 Germany...
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 3
Brexit
Posted: 2/22/2016 7:26:47 PM

We have to get out of the resource drain that is the EU.


that ain't what Cameron wants! His aim is to stay in the EU and is happy with the concessions.
He stated that if the UK leaves the EU so will an enormous numbers of jobs; investments, etc.
In short, he feels that there is more to lose than to gain by leaving!


For those that decry that statement and say the UK is rich, it ain't.


yous proclaim to have your economy in the top 5 in the world; but now you are crying about your country not being "rich"? Pathetic!

Why don't you tell your leaders to cut spending on the military, and quit giving welfare payments to your royals (as if they need more money!). And why didn't yous freely discharge Scotland (another seemingly welfare state that you have sink money into) after they yearned for independence; or didn't you know that they would be content just to leech off the UK.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 4
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/23/2016 1:30:17 AM
Halftime
Cheers mate. I posted on the elections and debates thread to answer gto but i shall post again on here. This referendum will affect over the pond. It is about taking back the right to set laws and trade as we please.

Yule once again shows his complete hatred of over this side of the pond. Your perogative geezer but like most shermans you know fvck all about over here. But carry on.

Yes the folk in scotland bottled it. But that is not what this referendum is about. Cameron wants to stay? Well whoop de bloody doo. The eu is corrupt. Unelected and carried out in secret. Time to go and bring democracy back to the folk. Just take this TTIP malarkey. It is purely for multi nationals to exploit.


"A single European nation suits the US government, its multinationals and its military. One leader is a lot easier to deal with than many.

The same goes for a single currency. This is clear in moves by the EU and the US to impose the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), which will allow the corporations of both blocs the chance to exploit each other’s markets, smoothing out “obstacles” in the process.

The NHS would be targeted by US health-care companies and trade union rights threatened. Negotiations to bring in TTIP have been taking place in secret. There is no voting involved, no pretence at democracy, little proper coverage by the media.

The main parties are broadly supportive. With TTIP comes the Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) system, whereby business can take governments to court if its profits are infringed upon. This is mind-blowing stuff, but our politicians say nothing."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/06/john-king-left-wing-case-leaving-eu
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 5
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/23/2016 1:31:58 AM
"However, there’s one reason to leave which trumps all of those reasons to stay, and trumps them hard: popular sovereignty, the crucial right of a people to consent to the political system they are governed by. The EU thwarts that right, in a serious and severe way, and that’s why we should vote to wriggle free of the Brussels bureaucracy.

It directly waters down our democratic clout through granting ever-greater authority to institutions like the EC and the European Court of Justice, whose edicts and rulings can be imposed on nations regardless of what national governments, far less national plebiscites, think of them. That is anti-democratic. End of. And it should be viewed as intolerable by anyone who considers himself progressive, and who recognises that every radical, inspiring leap forward in modern times – from the Levellers to the Chartists to the Suffragettes – has been about people wrestling from the authorities the right to choose who governs them; the right to political say-so.

The EU is a union not of peoples, but of elites. It has in recent decades become the sphere in which national elites, feeling ever more estranged from their national electorates, have effectively taken refuge"
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/love-democracy-then-leave-the-eu/18054#.Vssw4uqnxcs

http://getbritainout.org/eu-myths-facts/
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 6
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/23/2016 1:37:08 AM
Greece tried to show resistance to the unelected rodents in brussels and the folk voted in a socialist government. The new government were going to fight tooth and nail to end the so called austerity measures. They got the full frontal assault by germany.


"Europe is sliding into “a modern 1930s” and authorities are “making it up as they go along”, Yanis Varoufakis has warned as he launches a new movement which he says will “democratise” the continent.

Speaking to The Independent as he outlined his vision of the DiEM25 (Democracy in Europe Movement 2025) project, the self-described “erratic Marxist” says he wants to remove power from an unaccountable, authoritarian elite and distribute it fairly to the continent’s citizens.

“But in Europe we have no democratic process!”

Major political decisions, like how to deal with debt or respond to financial crises, have been handed over to the Eurogroup (the 19 finance ministers whose countries use the euro) and the European Central Bank, the supposedly apolitical body that controls interest rates across these countries. Neither, he says, are properly scrutinised.

In Varoufakis’ mind, Europe is run by an elite that is more unaccountable than ever. The European Parliament is a toothless body, “a parliament in name only, a parliament that cannot legislate. It's the only parliament ever that can't.”

“As soon as you criticise, you are immediately cast out as anti-European,” he argues, while politicians who turned a blind eye towards this process were “mightily rewarded”, both with election funds and favourable treatment in the press.

He hopes the “conversations” will eventually lead to a “basic consensus” on how to bring more democracy to the way Europe is run. Then they can fight elections.

He rose to prominence crossing so-called ‘big finance’ and ‘big industry’, the “unholy cartel” he argues is the “main driver of EU policy.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/yanis-varoufakis-europe-is-sliding-back-into-the-1930s-we-need-a-new-movement-a6863311.html
 Orione7
Joined: 12/22/2014
Msg: 7
Brexit
Posted: 2/23/2016 5:05:37 AM
Good, get lost, even though they have Euro dna...
If they go they can be kicked out of UEFA too... that would be a pleasure...

The Poms own nothing... all their car makers are foreign owned...
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 8
Brexit
Posted: 2/23/2016 7:09:34 AM
Yule appears to be a Brit-hater, or Euro-hater

more likely, an 'everything not USA' hater..

I wouldn't take anything he (?) writes too seriously.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EriEOWHPqcU
Posted: 2/23/2016 7:43:01 AM
if I remember correctly, Bill Clinton as president got the North Ireland peace process going in return for, among other things, favorable tax status for American companies. now, coincidentally or not, American companies are using Ireland (among other places) to help with a tax dodge (https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/tax-reform/report/2014/01/09/81681/offshore-corporate-profits-the-only-thing-trapped-is-tax-revenue/). I believe I also remember, the UK was brought kicking and screaming into the EU, claiming it was a continental thing...or were they knocking on the door, trying to get in? I forget. The former Soviet states seem to think getting into the EU is like getting into NATO--something to cross off the to-do list of being recognized.

I thought the germans would have enough pride in their currency, to not like the PIGS to come in and try to keep their fiscal heads above water. It never struck me as a small thing to tie one's currency to someone else. California was once the seventh largest economy in the world, the first to be unable to inflate its own currency, and look what happened to it by not being able to juggle the books when necessary. nobody like to juggle the books, but sometimes it has to be done for the long term good. Tariffs can sometimes be a necessary evil.

Water rights. Ecology laws. Property rights, intellectual and otherwise. Market protections. Policies against vulture capitalists. These can all be shot down under some trade policies. There's a book "diary of an economic hit man" that discusses the worst case scenario, of politicians forced into running their country the way foriegn banks and investors want it run for their own bottom line.

another reason to vote for Bernie Sanders? http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/bad-trade-deal-worse-than-i-thought-sanders-says

 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EriEOWHPqcU
Posted: 2/23/2016 7:58:53 AM
I see that London mayor Johnson is campaigning for Britain to exit the E U.

It is more easy for the US to control all of Europe dealing with the EU, as responsive to the people as the US Congress.

He has four things on his side. Merkel's creating the invasion of Europe (it will take the ferocity if the FSU people to stop it), paying into the EU is not really helping Britain and the people could regulate and legislate themselves.
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EriEOWHPqcU
Posted: 2/23/2016 8:05:39 AM
trade deals not always great.

OTOH, history shows that throwing up protectionist trade walls seldom works out well..maybe in the short term, for the protected industries,,in the longer term...no

the reaction in the late 1920's to slowing economic growth..high trade barriers.

and we reaped the Great Depression..
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 12
view profile
History
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EriEOWHPqcU
Posted: 2/23/2016 8:18:12 AM
We have been told by the american trade rep that brexit means we do not get to play with you shermans. In fact your rep froman is very very keen for us to remain in the eu. Of course TTIP benefits america more than it does us. And of course the fact that we, the citizens, have absolutely no say or are allowed any input into this shows the contempt shown by the bought and paid for by big business politicians and unelected troughers.

"TTIP’S TELL-TALE 12TH ROUND?

The United States and European Union are expected to dive deep into controversial investment protection provisions of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership when they meet today in Brussels for the 12th round of negotiations on the proposed pact.

“I think it is important that you bear in mind this is a very complex subject, that it has many dimensions, and that it is going to be the first time that we have an intensive discussion on the issue with the United States,” a European Commission source told reporters. “Both of us are convinced that we need to find a way of ensuring that investors are protected, without in any way interfering in the right to regulate of states.”

The EU broke off negotiations on the issue in January 2014 in the face of a public outcry over the “investor-state dispute settlement” provision that would allow companies to sue governments over regulations they believe are discriminatory or unfairly damage their investment.

EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmström instead has proposed creating a permanent court with 15 independent judges and six appellate judges appointed by the U.S., the EU and a third country for such cases.

But U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman has been unenthusiastic and the American business community also is skeptical."
http://www.politico.com/tipsheets/morning-trade/2016/02/ttips-tell-tale-12th-round-robb-reassures-on-tpp-biologics-commerce-itc-roll-ahead-with-tire-cases-212817#ixzz40zC7mKmp


And in a finger wagging arrogance we get lectured by froman..........


"US warns Britain: If you leave EU you face barriers to trading with America.

Trade representative Michael Froman says UK would face same tariffs and barriers as China, Brazil or India in the event of Brexit.

The United States is not keen on pursuing a separate free trade deal with Britain if it leaves the European Union, the US trade representative, Michael Froman, said – the first public comments from a senior US official on the matter.

Voters are due to decide by the end of 2017 whether the UK should remain in the EU, and opinion polls show rising support for leaving the bloc.

Froman’s comments on Wednesday undermine a key economic argument deployed by proponents of exit, who say Britain would prosper on its own and be able to secure bilateral free trade agreements (FTAs) with trading partners.

The US is Britain’s biggest export market after the EU, buying more than $54bn (£35bn) in goods from the UK in 2014.

“I think it’s absolutely clear that Britain has a greater voice at the trade table being part of the EU, being part of a larger economic entity,” Froman told Reuters, adding that EU membership gives Britain more leverage in negotiations.

“We’re not particularly in the market for FTAs with individual countries. We’re building platforms … that other countries can join over time.”

If Britain left the EU, Froman said, it would face the same tariffs and trade barriers as other countries outside the US free trade network."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/29/us-warns-britain-it-could-face-trade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu

Ah but now comes this wee revelation. Corruption and vested interests anyone?..............


"It was revealed yesterday that Obama trade representative Michael Froman, who took it upon himself to intervene in the referendum debate to warn against Brexit, was previously paid by the EU. Froman worked as part of the European Commission’s Forward Studies Unit, a department tasked with monitoring and evaluating European integration. The cosy relationship doesn’t end there…

Not only did Froman work for Brussels, his wife Nancy Goodman did as well. She took on a post at the Directorate General For Competition, which is also part of the European Commission. Froman confirmed the pair’s conflicting interests in a speech to Brussels in 2013:

"It is nice to be back in Brussels, and I am particularly pleased to make this city my first stop in Europe as U.S. Trade Representative. It doesn’t seem like that long ago when my wife Nancy and I were camped out in the lobby of the Berlaymont, phone directory in hand, cold-calling offices in hope of finding someone to take us on as stagiaires [Commission trainees].

After a few days and some persuasion, my wife found a position in DG Competition [Directorate General For Competition] and I found one in the Forward Studies Unit, the predecessor to today’s Bureau of European Policy Advisers.

So not only was Obama’s Brexit-bashing trade rep in the pay of Brussels, his wife was too…

http://order-order.com/2015/11/03/us-trade-reps-wife-worked-for-eu-too/
 caballerosiempre
Joined: 12/5/2015
Msg: 13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EriEOWHPqcU
Posted: 2/23/2016 3:20:41 PM
Often they are better infrasructures in poorer countries because they are newer..they went from donkey and cart directly to high speed trains and superhighways, so to speak..the infrastructure is 10 or 20 years old as opposed to 90 or 100..

in communication they went directly from virtually none, to high speed fiber optic cable..never spent $ billions on copper cable..
or went directly from a few isolated land line phones..to almost everyone having a cell phone..cheaper to put up cell towers than lay millions of kilometers of copper cable and wire..1st world comms still over copper wire in many places.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 14
Brexit
Posted: 2/23/2016 6:23:07 PM
#5 blad says:


Yule once again shows his complete hatred of over this side of the pond.


Hate is such a terse word; I prefer to use the word disdain
That is, disdain for an attitude of entitlement,
entitlement to more than what you merit.


Your perogative geezer but like most shermans you know fvck all about over here.


the good thing is that we don't need a whole lotta data to know what goes on by your side; in other words, if it smells like sh.it, it is usually just that!


Cameron wants to stay? Well whoop de bloody doo.


If he opted to leave, then yous will pay a very dear economic price. Uncle Samuel will chastise yous greatly!


The eu is corrupt.


So is FIFA, but that didn't prevent yous from partaking, did it now!
Its funny how yous whine about "corruption" when you can't be ones to spear head it, eh!
Your superiority complex has some cracks in it!


TTIPmalarkey. It is purely for multi nationals to exploit.


many of whom come from the major EU countries!


A single European nation suits the US government, its multinationals and its military. One leader is a lot easier to deal with than many.


exactly!

``````````````````````````

Hullo says:


1 Where did I proclaim that?


Not you personally, but this is how the UK has expounded itself over the years.


2 Plural of you is... wait for it... you


Not according to your sweaty comrade, vlad.


As for "discharge Scotland", I strongly suggest you check my nationality before spouting your trivial, banal gobberisms


You will have to excuse me but I'm not terribly inclined to check out the profiles of other men; but since you peeked my interest, it should now be obvious that you(s) are part of the UK's (financial) woes rather than the solution. Which goes back to what I said about feeling 'entitled', and not to mention lamenting about the UK's stance on EU membership, yet you defecated away your chance at self determination.


with Putin thinking he still has power whilst, in fact, his nation is the cuckold of China and America.


and who do you think the EU (including the UK) is the cuckhold of?
Let me clue you in; Britannia no longer rules the waves!
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 15
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 5:24:47 AM
Yule
"Hate is such a terse word; I prefer to use the word disdain That is, disdain for an attitude of entitlement, entitlement to more than what you merit."

Deary me. "Disdain?" eh? Lol. "Entitlement?" "More than we merit?". Gee whiz. Well thats us been told in a student type way then eh?

So whats the word on campus regarding TTIP then? Have you any view? Have you any view on the refugee/economic migrant crisis? Have you any view on the basket case nations like spain? Have you any view on the way greece has been attacked and threatened by the eu to cut services to the bone for their citizens?

What about the lack of accountability to european citizens fom brussels? How about the de unionisation of workers? The creeping privatisation of our nhs? The mass influx of cheap labour undercutting wages? Probably not. But carry on you geezer your hissy fitting is more entertaining than your lack of ken about europe.

Now how about the rest of yous shermans and canucks?

Yous got any views on unelected officials making laws in secret? Any views on citizens being arrested and jailed for showing dissent against the corrupt system?

As for TTIP i read that hillary USED to support ttip then changed her mind. Sanders is against it. As is the donald.

I see trump done the business again? Kinda ironic the "disdain", "entitlement" and the "attitude" sherman political elites showed and expected from the citizens eh?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 16
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 8:28:10 AM
^

So whats the word on campus regarding TTIP then? Have you any view?


You have propaganda then you have the truth!
There is plenty of propaganda out there but the truth often gets mired, so in your few sober moments, maybe you could go research some unbiased sources.

Just like with any trade agreement, there are advantages and disadvantages
I am (generally) in favor of any agreement that will allow greater access of US made goods and services to the EU
But the real question for yous, is: Do you really want globalization!
If the answer is "no" then yous never should have joined the EU because that is where it was all heading for.
Yous could have been just like the Scandinavians but greed got the best of yous.


Have you any view on the refugee/economic migrant crisis?


I already told you what i think of it;
yee will reap what yee sows!


Have you any view on the basket case nations like spain?


Funny how yous were eager to draw them into the EU soon after their beloved dictator died, eh!
So yous could sell your wares in a new market, and make them all kinds of "easy to repay" loans
but now they are a "basket case" because their environment is not profitable enough for yous.


Have you any view on the way greece has been attacked and threatened by the eu to cut services


Ahhh great, you lament about Spain being a basket case nation, but when the EU tries to shape up a floundering member, yous call it an attack! Man, if that doesn't earn you a free pint, I dunno know what would!


What about the lack of accountability to european citizens fom brussels?


what is Cameron saying about it?


The creeping privatisation of our nhs?


Better than letting it implode I guess, but what do you expect when your leaders opt to spend more on profitable ventures than on the health of its pple.


The mass influx of cheap labour undercutting wages?


We here have been dealing with this for decades, and the remedy is that you have to adjust and find a different way of making a living. Some low tech jobs will never come back, and businesses need to stay alive and they'd rather pay a non documented worker 1/2 the wages that they've been paying you to do as good (if not better) work!

Is it right you ask? Perhaps not, but this is a part of "globalization" I guess. Yous should have known it going in!
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 9:29:07 AM
Yule
"You have propaganda then you have the truth! There is plenty of propaganda out there but the truth often gets mired, so in your few sober moments, maybe you could go research some unbiased sources."

And pray tell how you would find out from other sources when all the meetings are behind closed doors?..........

"The European Commission is making the secret Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade deal even more secret, introducing a new rule that means politicians."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ttip-controversy-secret-trade-deal-can-only-be-read-secure-in-reading-room-in-brussels-10456206.h

"But the real question for yous, is: Do you really want globalization! If the answer is "no" then yous never should have joined the EU because that is where it was all heading for. Yous could have been just like the Scandinavians but greed got the best of yous."

We never joined the eu. We joined the common market. We were never given a vote on joining the eu.........


"Have you any view on the basket case nations like spain?

Funny how yous were eager to draw them into the EU soon after their beloved dictator died, eh! So yous could sell your wares in a new market, and make them all kinds of "easy to repay" loans but now they are a "basket case" because their environment is not profitable enough for yous."

Who was eager to draw spain into the eu? I've already explained we joined a COMMON MARKET not a centralised eu............


"Have you any view on the way greece has been attacked and threatened by the eu to cut services?

Ahhh great, you lament about Spain being a basket case nation, but when the EU tries to shape up a floundering member, yous call it an attack! Man, if that doesn't earn you a free pint, I dunno know what would!"

Shape up a floundering member!!!!!! Lol FFS geezer maybe you should try reading about the greek situation. As for pints i can buy my own. In fact i shall have a few tonight before i go to the football...........


"What about the lack of accountability to european citizens fom brussels?

what is Cameron saying about it?"


Cameron is a tit. I was asking you............


"The creeping privatisation of our nhs?

"Better than letting it implode I guess, but what do you expect when your leaders opt to spend more on profitable ventures than on the health of its pple."

I see you know as much about the nhs as i do of sherman health care..............


"The mass influx of cheap labour undercutting wages?

We here have been dealing with this for decades, and the remedy is that you have to adjust and find a different way of making a living. Some low tech jobs will never come back, and businesses need to stay alive and they'd rather pay a non documented worker 1/2 the wages that they've been paying you to do as good (if not better) work! Is it right you ask? Perhaps not, but this is a part of "globalization" I guess"

Ah so you support the exploitation of non documented labour? Is that the american way? Or the globalised way?.............

"Yous should have known it going in!"

We never joined the eu. We were never asked. We joined the common market...........
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 18
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 9:42:40 AM
Many years ago there was the famous Battle in Seattle. Coverage of it basically came down to some Starbucks getting vandalized. But over 100,000 people came from all over the US to protest secret trade agreements. And this was in the days before Facebook - it was organized by fax and early email.

There has long been a populist resistance to sacrificing sovereignty for corporate interests. It's traditionally been a lefty thing, but we're starting to see it echoed on the right. The TPP here and the TTiP over there is all negotiated in secret. Even though George Soros might want to see the UK stay in the EU, I'm pretty sure he's just as pissed as you at the secret negotiations. He's all about the Open Society, Karl Popper, and fighting tyranny.
 FGRN83
Joined: 1/21/2016
Msg: 19
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 12:55:30 PM
A Slavic Union would politely tell soros and his geNOcidal ways to shove off. Western beta males will be constantly picked on by soros and an anti white NWO weaponizing blacks and browns.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 20
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 12:58:37 PM
Just as a personal note, you can't pretend to be an alpha male when you're so damned scared of everyone who doesn't look like you.

You can't keep seeing yourself as both a victim and the self directed actor of you own life.
 FGRN83
Joined: 1/21/2016
Msg: 21
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 1:07:34 PM

@ msg 25. Sure can. Just as a Slavic Union. White People need to create their own destiny , no one else's.

Just as a personal note , Why be a cuckhold while your own countrymen allow invaders to rape your females?
 Orione7
Joined: 12/22/2014
Msg: 22
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 1:23:22 PM
There could not be a Slavic union.
1 Slavs hate each other.... usually based on religion.
2. Hopefully the Serbs take back what is theirs and crush the Cro's and Bosnians.

Serbia and Russia maybe...
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 23
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 4:25:03 PM
#22 VLAD



And pray tell how you would find out from other sources when all the meetings are behind closed doors?


we already know what the basic tenets of the ttip are; the negotiations are just that...plain negotiations, which tend to be conducted in private because certain disclosures cannot be made public (whether by the corporate entities or by the mutual gov'ts or representatives thereof) fearing unnecessarily disclosing sensitive data being made public for others to use against whatever entity it pertains to. The other reason that it is secretive is because of the fear of inducing mass hysteria; so yes, I could perhaps understand a tad why some it gets done in private.

Has your leadership been asked about why this treaty is being negotiated in secret? if so then what answer did they give yous!



We never joined the eu. We joined the common market. We were never given a vote on joining the eu


I dunno just which Scottish elixir you've been dipping into bloke, but apparently it has taken its toll on your noodle.

go on: eucountrylist.com

and you will see your Union Jack proudly displayed as a member country of the EU.
And just in case there might have some error I also looked up some other sites, and I found the same list of countries; yours included.

You do know that the EU encompasses the common market countries (of which your country became a member in 1973--despite the objections of DeGaulle).



I've already explained we joined a COMMON MARKET not a centralised eu


well some Brit musta signed on the dotted line when yous wasn't looking!
Btw, having maintained your own currency does not preclude yous being members.
and if you are not EU memebrs then WTF are you worrying about the TTIp for?



Cameron is a tit. I was asking you


I would think it is Brussels's responsibility to account to the member nation's leaders, and then its the individual members to account to its citizens, dont you think!

Who the hell elects your leaders; or are they appointed by the ruling party?



Ah so you support the exploitation of non documented labour?


I do?



Is that the american way?


Unfortunately it is!
Unless Trump takes office and does what he says he's gonna do about the 12 million undocumented workers, in which case we will soon be paying substantially more for a typical bag of veggies (which will then be collected by unionized workers at union wages).



we never joined the eu. We were never asked.


Keep on repeating the above ^ over and over as you down your pints tonight, and it might come true!
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 24
Brexit
Posted: 2/24/2016 8:41:04 PM
^

The UK joined the Common Market. not the bloated EC. Simple.


It doesn't matter WTF you may have joined in 1973, it is what you are in now that counts!
and if yous are truly not part of the EU then WTF are yous worried about the TTIP,
who is making yous join?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Brexit
Posted: 2/25/2016 7:43:06 AM
"Nobody under the age of 56 in Britain has been given a vote on Britain's membership of the EU because the first – and only – referendum took place in 1975. Britain is now one of the least enthusiastic members of the 27-strong union after a series of measures which have led to deeper integration."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/18/britain-europe-eu-essential-guide


IF you believe in the concept of democracy then the citizens should have a voice. I believe that the True Democracy that Switzerland has is the way forward. Politicians lie. It is what they do best. Political parties produce manifestos proclaiming their aims. We USED to have a cozy wee set up of labour, tory and lib dems. Supposedly for the workers, big business and the nonces.

We were lied to about joining 'the common market'. What it's true aims were...........


"The 1971 F&CO letter to Ted Heath stating in no uncertain terms that the then so called Common Market was, in fact, a deceitful ploy to transfer UK sovereignty to Brussels. When he said in parliament and to the British people that it was nothing more than a trading arrangement he was lying and he knew he was lying.

In 1972 Edward Heath said that the EU was only a COMMON MARKET. “There are some in this country who fear that going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified. Thus he deceived the UK into joining the EU. He was lying and he knew perfectly well at the time he was lying.

When challenged later as to why he lied he said ‘the British public are too stupid to be involved in governing themselves’.* So there!

FCO 30/1048 A document kept secret from the British public until it that came to light under the 30 year rule.

The truth is out: 1975 referendum voteres were DUPED

SECRET Cabinet documents released from Whitehall this week gave a fascinating insight into the way voters were duped in the run-up to the 1975 referendum on Britain’s links with Europe. The Foreign Office papers were declassified following a year-long freedom of information battle by the Eurosceptic pressure group Britain for Business.

And they reveal that official advice given to ministers in Harold Wilson’s Labour government about the full impact on the country of joining the European Economic Community, the forerunner to today’s European Union, was not disclosed to the public. Ministers were warned that the lawmaking powers of the Brussels bureaucracy would lead to “a gross infringement of the sovereignty” of the Westminster Parliament.

And a senior official told Mr Wilson, who was then prime minister, that transferring powers to the Brussels-based European Commission threatened the “most serious attack on Parliamentary democracy with which this country was faced”..
http://www.theeuroprobe.org/edward-heath-and-a-letter-from-the-foriegn-commonwealth-office-1972/

* heath might well have had a good point there as the liblabcon run the nations for years. But no more.

I believe that working folk are not there to be exploited for financial gain. I believe that a decent days work deserves a decent days pay. I believe that working folk deserve decent housing. I believe that working folk should have time to spend outwith working hours as socialising time. This does not happen under globalisation.

Citizens lives and well being should not be measured in how much medical care costs. Mass migration hinders all the above. Migrants are exploited as cheap labour.

There is a good chance brexit will fail. Project fear. Dire warnings of ruin and destruction. Of course the fact it is huge multi national conglomerates, global finance and the worst face of capitalism along with snouts in the trough politicians who are issuing the warnings should act as a wake up.

Yule
"It doesn't matter WTF you may have joined in 1973, it is what you are in now that counts!
and if yous are truly not part of the EU then WTF are yous worried about the TTIP,
who is making yous join?"

Hopefully we will not be part of the eu soon. As for ttip and who is making us join i think the list of global capitalists who are funding project fear may be a good place to start.
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