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 razors_edge55
Joined: 11/25/2013
Msg: 1
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History
when was america great??Page 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I have to ask ,cause thinking about history there is always one or more ,left behind ,poor ,homeless ,or discriminated
so I have to ask "where are we going" ????sure us has power ,,money ,,,does that ,,only that make you great?,
has america ever been great?? or just a dream,I'll take 5 or 10 years when america was great ,,for every one ,,tell me ??only 240 years !
what does the brain trust here have to say
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 2
For who?
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:15:55 PM
America was great for the WASPs in the 1950's, except there was a recession in 1958 when GM started making some ugly cars (except the Chevy Impala). America had little economic competition in the world, computers hadn't replaced manual labor just yet, so the Baby Boom population could buy products, the government was funding a Space Race that helped also fund R&D that we enjoy today thanks to silicon chips shrinking the size of everything, and our biggest threat was another country, not a terrorist group. The Soviet Union wasn't going to bomb a bus station, but they sure gave us a focus, an outsider threat.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/50selectrical.html

But if you weren't white, male, and Protestant? Well, at least you weren't competing with the WASPs for jobs. And you knew your place in other fields, too. Mom could stay at home if you were middle class, or maybe get a part time job. It wasn't the same as being Rosie the Riveter with all that responsibility. And if you watch the cable TV show "Mad Men", you get the idea of how predatory a white collar workplace could have been for your sweet grandma.

oh yeah, butterchuck raises a point. TV meant that we all had a shared experience--you went to work the next day and could talk about Uncle Milty or Conkrite. Now we have 157 channels and YouTube, maybe people can talk about the Walking Dead.
 razors_edge55
Joined: 11/25/2013
Msg: 3
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History
For who?
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:21:17 PM
thanks GTO ,but how many blacks were Lynched in 1958 and after ??? not great
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 4
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:22:01 PM
When the Beatles appeared on the Ed Sullivan show in 1964 - the crime rate actually dropped during their performance !!!!!!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 5
For who?
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:22:36 PM
http://faculty.berea.edu/browners/chesnutt/classroom/lynching_table_year.html

yep, there's a table of lynchings.

also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching

http://www.greatblacksinwax.org/Exhibits/lynching.htm

lynchings tend to be about punishment and putting people back into their place. If a group of people (it wasn't just blacks) seem to be getting too much representation in politics, there may be an increase of terrorism (not just in America).

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/11/9/just_like_after_reconstruction_trump_vote
 razors_edge55
Joined: 11/25/2013
Msg: 6
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History
For who?
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:26:25 PM
not to say we are not trying ,,,,but we are far from a more perfect union ,,,
 halforhalfnot
Joined: 9/13/2016
Msg: 7
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:26:31 PM
At the end of WW2, the US had 90% of the world's industrial capacity. The people had come through the Great Depression, and years of war. The future was bright and everything was getting better every year. This is the world that today's elderly grew up in. Polio got beat; small pox immunization was wiping out that disease; life expectancies were increasing; the US was widely respected.

As long as you were white, not a leftie, and straight, you reas8nably expected things to just keep getting better. That's why even Goldwater got the majority of white, college educated voters. It's that nostalgia that both Reagan and Trump called on.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 8
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:32:29 PM
Interestingly, Reagan talked positively about America, a shining city on the hill, "morning in America". Chump seems to take a more negative focus, on how bad our treaties are, made by losers. We'll see how much he changes that, since he's already walking back promises made to Trumpets who voting thinking he wasn't the Establishment. Tho, ironically, when voters were part of the WASP Establishment, was when they were doing good.

What was good for General Motors, was supposed to be good for the country. Remember that expression? Being a "company man" was supposed to be a recipe for success.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 9
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History
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:35:50 PM
America had high industrial output during the times you mentioned # 7 Half. In some ways this is equated with "Greatness" and in some ways it is"nt. Fortunately, for many at the time it was just what was needed..... No one cared what it was called but simply did what was needed.....

Aaaaahhh, History.
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 10
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:39:00 PM
Also, see the post below this one
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 11
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:40:25 PM
Also, during the Woodstock festival....but then Altamont happened a few months later....

Sigh




In order to maintain the highest quality grade A forums that you can smoke in your forum pipe and just lay back and let your eyes glaze over you can't be a postin more than once in a blue moon

so neener neener and also neener
 Tomfiend
Joined: 10/3/2016
Msg: 12
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:40:27 PM
Define "great". America has always done great things...saving Europe was great. Curing disease was great. Due process requirements are great. But in a huge country like ours, you will always have not such great people. Your queston makes no sense.
 Butterchickenchuck
Joined: 9/18/2015
Msg: 13
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:41:57 PM
Wow, how did all these posts pop up ?


How about we make this Forum great again ?



Step 1 : Create a CYBER WALL to keep those annoying Canadians off this Forum !
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 14
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History
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:48:03 PM
Yeah, and it falls every time it snows or rains really hard, too. Big woop.

America was "great" at all sorts of times, depending on your perspective. But what Trump and his followers mean by it, is entirely unrelated. Really, what Trump ran on, was advocating a FEELING about greatness. It's an ego thing, in the end. If you look in to the past, you'll find that at all the times that lots of people were riding high, enjoying the good life, and high-fiving each other all the time, that they were ALSO in the process of making the most self-destructive mistakes possible.

Things seemed TREMENDOUS in the 1920's. Everyone was making money in the stock market, the music was hot, and life in the US was a non-stop party for almost everyone. We'd just won a World War all by ourselves, and the whole WORLD realized that we could kick ass militarily.

Then, as it so often happens, it turned out that that stock market wealth, was all an illusion. The fake wealth vanished in a puff of a few days of sell offs, and the Great Depression set in. The government set about gradually working the country back from that mess, and tried to head off another private industry generated collapse, by regulating how stocks were traded, and making various common business tricks and cheats into Federal crimes.

Then there was the 1950's. Same kind of story. We thought we were the across the board smartest kids on the planet, EVERYONE who was left alive after WW2 loved us, especially the vanquished Germans and Japanese, we could sell our products ANYWHERE (because no one else had any to sell), and we were all rich rich rich.

But since our business leaders WERE able to do anything and still get rich, they gradually stopped working on getting rich by making better and cheaper products, and shifted to getting rich by playing accounting tricks, and getting the tax laws changed, to allow them to hide more profits. So when the world changed, and Japan and others started making better and cheaper products, the bottom fell out, and we had the mess that was the 1970's. Wild inflation, as everyone tried to game the system by printing more money.

Ironically, since lots of people don't bother to study any history at all, they actually think that if we go back to making the incredibly stupid decisions we made when we were all rich, that the wealth will come back. So instead of keeping the FIXES (regulations) for the horrifying depressions, they want to unleash the false economics that made everything to SEEM wonderful. A great simile, is that they know how it FEELS like you're flying, right after you drive over a cliff at high speed, so that's what they want us to do.

For myself, I'm not sure that Trump actually has a clear idea about what "great America" means, I suspect his well-honed promoters' knowledge, told him that talking about Making America Great Again, would SELL well. That's why he keeps contradicting himself from one moment to the next.
 razors_edge55
Joined: 11/25/2013
Msg: 15
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History
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 3:53:29 PM
Igor you rule ,,,well said,,
but I have to disagree ,,we did not win the "great" war 1914 ,1918 we just showed up,in 1917 ,,and did our bit ,and it was over ,we only won with the promes of more men to come
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 16
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 4:00:45 PM
Not my business to say....



But I thought it was doing OK., not perfect , by a long way, but ok.,
waaay back, around November 7th. 2016
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 17
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 4:07:40 PM
The big problem for a Trump presidency is, how long will his supporters wait for America to become great again-where everybody has the great paying jobs Trump promises to get for them with new companies popping up everywhere, where the U.S. becomes whiter because all non-white foreigners have been deported, and everybody prospers right away and lives the American dream? Will they start to lose faith if everything they hoped for in a Trump presidency doesn't get done after 6 months, a year, two years, 3 years? How long would it take for the beer goggles to come off?
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 18
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 4:15:36 PM
Financially, it's probably as great as it ever was, which means there have always been problems to be faced, one of the biggest having been the start of income tax (3%) initially to pay for the civil war and then increasing thereafter, brought on by more wars (and the current war machine the U.S. is) and an ever growing population which required more taxes.

It's probably also been as great as it ever was (read not great at all) when it comes to bigotry, racism, misogyny, elitism, and a certain arrogance. Any one of them are either brought about by fear of someone or cause fear in someone. It's like the more things change, the more they stay the same. Your country is more in turmoil at the moment because of fear, which was what allowed Hitler to gather his followers. Germany felt weak and vulnerable to invasion and at this point in history, U.S. citizens feel vulnerable and weak when it comes to terrorism and are looking at someone to blame, which is turning out to be their own citizens more than terrorism. Add that to the fear caused by the existing and recently promoted bigotry, racism, misogyny, elitism, etc., and from the outside looking in, it's definitely not as great as it should be, never mind was or could be. Trump's recent influence over the past 18 months has gone a long way to promote, by constant repetition and acceptance by not shutting it down when it should have been, that which is not great about your country. You have no chance of being "great" unless and until steps are taken to not promote such tolerance of the "isms".

I wonder if this was like it was during the fall of the Roman Empire...
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 19
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when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 5:35:11 PM
It'll probably take Trump a few years to make America great again. Before all those companies can move their manufacturing back to America they got to fix the infrastructure to move these refrigerators and supply factories with raw materials and energy. Now would probably be a good time to go back to junior high school and learn to become a tool and die maker or television repairman.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 20
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 6:04:49 PM
#14 says:


Then there was the 1950's. Same kind of story. We thought we were the across the board smartest kids on the planet, EVERYONE who was left alive after WW2 loved us, especially the vanquished Germans and Japanese, we could sell our products ANYWHERE (because no one else had any to sell), and we were all rich rich rich.


Part of the (evolving) Truman doctrine was to bolster the economies of fledging nations in the post war era to prevent them from turning "red"; which caused a fair degree of 'wealth' to slowly exit the US in the 50's & 60's.
 junipermoon
Joined: 3/1/2006
Msg: 21
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History
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 6:08:19 PM
eliot said it best:

'i have seen the moment of my greatness flicker
i have seen the eternal footman hold my coat and snicker
and, in short, i was afraid.'

and like eliot's anti-hero, america will vanish into the corners of the evening, lingering upon the pools that stand in drains, curl once back on our unseemly selves, and fall asleep.

we will murder, we will create. but the end will come, not with a bang, but a whimper.
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 22
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 6:19:56 PM
The American Civil War was a civil war in the United States fought from 1861 to 1865. The Union faced secessionists in eleven Southern states grouped together as the Confederate States of America. The Union won the war, which remains the bloodiest in U.S. history.

I like the USA, I wed an American. Now because you can print money doesn't make one great
I do hope that comment re moving jobs back was tongue in cheek.
Bet there isn't an American on this forum would would pay $50 for flip flops because the made in the USA

I admired what many did during Katrina... not the bad stories the stories of hope and supporting each other
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 23
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History
when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 8:35:15 PM
How is Trump going to bring manufacturing back? Either the cost of products would be so high you couldn't buy anything or workers are going to have to go way back in time where the pay won't get you anything, then what? But mostly, how is he going to bring any of this back? People voted for Trump because he fed them what they wanted to hear, he's not going to produce any of these promises, he going to fill his cabinet with butt kissers and his children, you know he's going to give his children important jobs and then what, you think that's going to bring back this fictional greatness? What time period, exactly, is this great America going to be? Trump buys most of his products from China, he thinks Putin is a great leader, so is that the greatness he's bringing back, Russia's economy? What, exactly, are people who voted for him expecting? Are you looking for pre-civil rights, when white men ruled with an iron fist? Pre-women voting, when white men ruled with an iron fist? The 1950s, when white men ruled with an iron fist? Pre-birth control? Are we going to have to produce our proof of being white?
 purplerider1200
Joined: 9/10/2011
Msg: 24
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when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 9:36:51 PM
How nice that you're giving him a chance to prove himself. Obama proved he **** up a country in 8 years. It only took hillary 18 months to divide a country, with her lies.

By chance, did you happen to notice that Republicans managed to take control of both house and senate? Or that there are now 32 republican governors. Naa, you didn't see that. Gee, only 70% of the country thought we were going in the wrong direction.

Yes, I voted for Trump. Not because hillary was a woman. I didn't vote for her because I didn't like what she stood for. Nor did I vote for obama. His policy sucked too.

Trump will give jobs based on performance. Not because you're a friend. His kids are going to be running his businesses. The dammed healthcare website was given to a couple of michelle's college cronies. They managed to screw it up, and charged a premium for it.

You butthurt dems are mad because you lost. But then, you're too stupid to see that your own party is screwing you over.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 25
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when was america great??
Posted: 11/11/2016 11:37:51 PM
Mad because 'we' lost? You lost, now take responsibility.
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