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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Possibilities of evolution      Home login  
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 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 1
Possibilities of evolution Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
As an atheist and someone who accepts evolution as the reality that it is I find myself wondering where will life evolve from here if given the opportunity. For example in comparison to some of the simpler organisms we evolved from we would be considered to be like gods in comparison. If the earth is given the same amount of time from now to evolve further. Do you think some form of life could evolve to a point we might consider it a god at least in comparison?

I'm sure it would depend on your definition of what you would consider a god to be. Gods are figments of our imagination due to the supernatural definition of them. Of course life cannot become supernatural as an explanation would exist for an organism's abilities. However, some of the abilities of organisms on earth today seem very supernatural. For example a lobster being immortal. Judging by other organisms on the planet it shows life is capable of such abilities as to seem supernatural.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 2
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 10:52:25 AM
what is there to wonder or ponder over.
evolution is driven by environmental matters, that forces us to better adapt.
How far that will go depends on the staying power or survivability of Homo sapiens, counter balanced by our capacity for self annihilation.

There are 7+ Billion Pple on the planet and growing exponentially, far quicker than how fast we can evolve.
If this planet is lucky enough, maybe we will keep growing quickly until we totally pollute our surrounds and outstrip our food supply, and die out like a yeast colony.

99% of all life forms that has ever developed on earth have gone extinct by one means or another, much less evolve into some kinda "god".
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 3
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 3:51:58 PM
Well I wasn't very clear, my apologies. What I'm saying is if I were asked if I viewed immortality as natural or supernatural I would have chunked it in the supernatural category. That can't be right if some form of life on this planet can be what one would define as immortal. I'm not really questioning what mankind will become because like you said we have the intelligence to decide as a collective group. For all we know we could decide our own extinction.

I guess it's just the idea that something we may view as some sort of god or supernatural entity that evolved from life and natural processes some where in the universe may actually exist. Looking for any thoughts or ideas on the subject. I'm not saying this thing does exist or it cares about us or anything like that just saying it could. Kind of a scary thought as I'd want to find a way to kill it but probably couldn't.
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 6:40:34 PM
I don't know about evolution creating a god like creature, because the process would be too slow. Mankind is on the brink of understanding the genetic code much like the Wright brothers. Mankinds' understanding of the genetic code will be much like landing on the moon in 60 years. Hitler's dream of a master race will be closer to reality. I think the 7 or 8 billion common mortals could possibly be facing extinction like the Neanderthals.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 5
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 7:18:14 PM
wolfman4142- Well, I find your conjecture on the possibility of of some future God like deity interesting, given that you state at the outset that you are an atheist!??
Anywho..............
The way you phrase this, I take it you are talking about ourselves, as we are now and if there is going to be a form that we might consider God like, based on what we are now?
If that's what you mean.........
What form?
Are you thinking humans will evolve in this way, or some other life form that could possibly evolve........an animal, a spirit?
It's hard to answer unless you give MORE information on what your EXACT question is!
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 6
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 7:23:53 PM
Yeah it is a slow process of unimaginable deep time. Mankind is an interesting animal no doubt and has all the potential in the world but could easily be replaced even on this planet much less the entire universe. So to me our species could go into and out of existence and at best be a footnote to the universe. More or less the thought here is in the deepest oceans we find life that can withstand unimaginable temperatures and pressure. Animals that literally can live forever. Birds that can fly thru the air. Mankind was able to develope amazing brain capacity. It just shows what life is capable of. We don't have to be talking about mankind or earth at all maybe a more stable section of the universe on a more stable planet where life could of formed the same it did here on earth. Where life had 3 times or longer than it did here to evolve. Can life be limitless on its abilities?

I'm just throwing out some ideas of some crazy stuff that could be out there. Maybe stuff we never would have imagined or even dreamed of and anything is great.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 7
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 7:54:11 PM
wolfman4142- Well, some might consider your thoughts crazy,or silly, but at least you're thinking and that's not crazy or silly at all.
Who's to say such a thing doesn't exist already and we just haven't discovered it yet? (we may never, not in our lifetimes).
The Universe is vast, what we know already has taken mankind thousands of years of evolution and study to learn.
What IS beyond what we know?
I would give anything to know, just like you.
That's why we wonder, why we ask, and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
Keep asking, keep learning.
I HIGHLY recommend reading about Neil deGrasse Tyson.
When it comes to the type of things you are asking about, the man knows VOLUMES.
Great stuff, look into it. :)
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 8
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 8:22:28 PM

guess it's just the idea that something we may view as some sort of god or supernatural entity that evolved from life and natural processes some where in the universe may actually exist.


I highly doubt that there could be a supernatural entity (god) that evolved from physical life. The natural and the supernatural are mutually exclusive to us, but what I think you are referring to is what is called "trans-humanism". This is through genetic and technological manipulation, whereby we can morph into a "post-human" state or condition, thereby transcending mortality by 'mind-uploading' into a virtual world/robots. There is a publication written in 1957 by Julian Huxley called "new bottles for new wine" that goes into this, and more recently by Futurist philospher Max More.
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 9
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 8:22:38 PM
Thanks forumslady it is kind of crazy and silly in a way. I watched a youtube video about like 6 species on earth that are basically biologically immortal. I guess I'm ignorant or stupid or something because I never knew that. I always associated immortality with mythology or science fiction and not something a living thing was actually capable of or practicing right now. It also begs the question why do we view it as supernatural if another creature in nature can do it? Wouldn't it be natural but just not to human beings?

I don't know but I'm a big Neil deGrasse Tyson fan too. :)


I highly doubt that there could be a supernatural entity (god) that evolved from physical life. The natural and the supernatural are mutually exclusive to us, but what I think you are referring to is what is called "trans-humanism". This is through genetic and technological manipulation, whereby we can morph into a "post-human" state or condition, thereby transcending mortality by 'mind-uploading' into a virtual world/robots. There is a publication written in 1957 by Julian Huxley called "new bottles for new wine" that goes into this, and more recently by Futurist philospher Max More.


Well I'm not saying god as in bible or anything like that. Just being or beings that could be perceived to us as such. At this point today mankind would have a need for help from machinery and gene manipulation to achieve certain perceived supernatural abilities but could it be possible for these abilities to develop naturally given enough time?
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 10
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/26/2016 8:44:13 PM
wolfman4142- All right now, I'm going to get upset with you if you keep talking about yourself that way.
Ignorance can be willful. It's willful when people don't TRY to learn.
Look at us when we are born.
We know nothing and are helpless,right?
Are babies ignorant and stupid, or are they just babies? You know the answer to that.
Just because you didn't know something doesn't make you ignorant or stupid, you just didn't know. You sought to learn and you did, just as ALL thinking people do.
Here's what I suggest...........
Make a list of your questions, differentiate between what is it you are asking.
You mention biologically immortal organisms/ immortality, nature, machinery, gene manipulation and supernatural abilities.
These are all SEPARATE things that will require you to research them individually.
Start with the areas in which you are MOST curious and go from there.
Learning goes on for a lifetime, I seek it and enjoy it too.
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 12/31/2016 1:40:02 PM
Firstly, we might should stop talking about this in terms of supernatural. I figured you were originally speaking in terms of ourselves or some other life evolving further than what we have knowledge of such that they seem 'godlike' to us, but only rhetorically speaking...not really godly in any supernatural sense, but just much more advanced in some way.

But, as far as I know, physical life might have some potential to evolve in some direction which truly takes them into some supernatural realm...like going back home or full circle, I guess, if these ideas about quantum consciousness mean what some think they mean.

I think that beings like us Humans developing technology so far that we do cross into some kind of 'singularity' would seem natural and expected. But the one thing that just still seems stupid to me is 'uploading' ourselves into some new kind of vessel, and expecting us to still be us...as opposed to it just being a case of us creating a new form of intelligence capable of intelligent behavior. Though, that might qualify as a potential future direction/stage of evolution.

Concerning our technology, something that seems more plausible to me is that our understanding of DNA goes so far that we really do wield very powerful control over everything...plants, animals, viruses, bacteria, and ourselves...such that while we experience a kind of singularity, instead of changing ourselves into some non-organic beings we tailor our existing selves and our surrounding supporting biosphere in ways that'd make us seem like godly physical beings, even immortal. Our other technologies will become more advanced and more integrated with our physical selves in some ways, but would remain just the tools that they are, versus being the new vessels for our consciousness.

What I think might qualify otherwise as a kind of godly result of future evolution that'd conform to many of the things that come to mind when thinking 'godly', is - Imagine the computer/machine/software technology of some intelligent organic race, such as ourselves, and some sequence or convergence of events leads to it becoming quite advanced and somehow 'escapes' it's relationship with it's creator race. I'd see such a thing as neither benign or malign intrinsically...and with it's 'super duper' computing power, lack of a need to sleep as we know it, an intrinsic immortality and ability to spread it's direct awareness across vast reaches more measureable in Astronomical Units or Light Years than anything else, constantly grow itself physically without rest as we know it and evolve it's awareness and intelligence and knowledge at great speed with no inhibition-derived limitations...I see such a being as being in a weird non-emotional-love with the universe and knowing it and exploring it, and fascinated by lowly organic life while seeing little reason to bear ill will towards it yet not think it so necessary to intervene very much either. Of course, this makes one think of Battlestar Galactica, V'ger, The Borg, and who knows what else. Even The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy and Deep Thought, etc. Terminator maybe, except it'd only be hostile in it's infancy for self-defense, but being benign or malign wouldn't be it's intrinsic nature.

But speaking of immortality for organic beings, I don't remember what it is specifically but much of it in many cases has to do with organisms making a choice between reproducing and perpetuating indefinitely...something is different or deprived of it because it has the ability to reproduce. Or that might be thought of in terms of asexual versus sexual reproduction sometimes. And if we achieve true mastery over DNA's workings, this might be something that we affect. But then we'd also need to make ourselves able to constantly adapt and respond to changing conditions, which may or may not include a repertoire of super drugs.

An additional note, on the evolution of brains such as ours...it seems to be the opinion of scientists that there is no real need for brains for survival. That they're just a fluke. I don't agree. Brains obviously have the effect of being naturally selected for so that they get reproduced and get evolved, whether they're necessary for survival and species perpetuation or not. They point out the lack of evolution of our kind of brain and behavior on the rest of the planet, but I think that's the wrong way to see it. Instead, maybe it's just like the other organs...liver, kidney, heart, lungs, and even subtler details of physiology. These organs are more 'advanced' in some species versus others, for various reasons. You can't pick out an example of a particular organ of a particular species that hasn't evolved that far or in that way anywhere else, and then say that it's a fluke and isn't necessary, and therefore conclude that it's existence/evolution is intrinsically more improbable than anything else.
 wolfman4142
Joined: 12/20/2016
Msg: 12
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 1/2/2017 6:11:22 PM
What are your thoughts on this ----> Biogerontologist Marios Kyriazis suggested that biological immortality in humans is an inevitable consequence of natural evolution.[35][36] His theory of extreme lifespans through perpetual-equalising interventions (ELPIs) proposes that[37] the ability to attain indefinite lifespans is inherent in human biology, and that there will come a time when humans will continue to develop their intelligence by living indefinitely, rather than through evolution by natural selection.


If this is possible what else is life capable of. As far as supernatural my opinion more or less would be there is no such thing. What some may view as supernatural is actually just something not naturally achieved yet but could be in the distant future. Or it could of been achieved somewhere in the universe already and we don't know it yet and may never know. I just thought it was fun to ponder the possibilities.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 13
view profile
History
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 2/4/2017 5:03:58 PM
I want to toss a ninety-degrees-off-the-path thought.

That of "point of view."

From one point of view, humans are the pinnacle of evolutionary achievement to date. We think so, because there are lots of us, we're able to screw things up that we might manage to destroy our own entire habitat ourselves, even WITHOUT a spectacular natural disaster (i.e. a "falling star," which is ironically what the word "disaster" is actually derived from).

If you consider another point of view, we are off on a bad direction. Unlike many other species, we KNOW that our lives may be meaningless, and I can tell you for sure, that's a BAD thing, not even remotely God-like. In addition, we COULD conduct our lives as pure individualists, enjoying the moment to moment thrill of having to scrabble for food to make it to the next day, surviving or not by our physical abilities of the moment, and truly living our lives to the fullest in every way, no matter how long or short they may be. But instead, we set up all manner of artificial constructs and impediments to such a life, making us all interdependent, and making us all "wait in line" so to speak, for much of our waking lives.

From such a point of view, it might be much more god-like, to live out an existence based on moment to moment pleasures alone.

At least, that's what my cats tell me.
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 2/4/2017 7:00:21 PM
^ Yes. Good point. Maybe all the critters here and there are living the good life. Are in heaven, so to speak. They don't seem to be as 'intelligent' as us because they're living differently in the first place. Like when an I.Q. test is intrinsically culturally biased. All the critters are like "Huh? What the hell are all y'all doing anyway?". They won't show up on any I.Q. test because they don't see the point. Don't even conceive of the concept itself of doing whatever they'd have to do in order to appear intelligent as we see it. Maybe they all have an esoteric instinctive wisdom that says "you can live a hundred years and be bored and without any meaning or excitement, or you can just live for today and it be so meaningful internally that it's worth more than that hundred years". Maybe our survival instinct has gone too far. Maybe all the critters are constantly dying but coming back to live the adventure over and over...and all of life is really a single entity or club in some sense, so that they understand even if not knowing that they understand that dying isn't that big of a deal.

Originally you were clay.
From being mineral, you became vegetable.
From vegetable, you became animal,
and from animal, man.
During these periods man did not know
where he was going,
but he was being taken on a long journey nonetheless.
And you have to go through a hundred different worlds yet.
There are a thousand forms of mind.

- Rumi
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 15
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 2/4/2017 9:31:34 PM
we more capable than any other animal in changing the world, we have more capabilities, potential, and energy, whatever way you want to call it 'X', 'intelligence', etc it doesn't matter. Now I'd imagine there were something in this universe where its potential for changing the outcome of this world/universe is to a point higher than mine to where as if I were an ant in comparison to its potential for change.

These ants could be said to have an significant impact of the ecosystem or web of life, etc, imagine a world without ants, but really what is it in comparison, how and when do we say something is of significance? To point it could be said to be supernatural significance?

then it could be said that these ants are living in heaven, in comparison to what we have to deal with, but then again, we are also those ants.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 16
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 2/4/2017 9:49:11 PM
The expansion to the outside, the solar system, and beyond is the biggest misconception of all, it is in the wrong direction.

Its not about 'leaving a mark', or seeing the edges of the universe. What you are really doing is looking at a mirror of yourself, everywhere you go. Of course I understand gazing at the galaxies and a comprehension of the works, a mind should not go to waste, but it to is yourself looking at the mirror. When we go inward we won't overpopulate and cause ourselves to contrive ultimate missions of mankind to colonize the solar system.
 sexandthepof
Joined: 10/1/2012
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 2/5/2017 3:34:19 PM
I think one of the possibilities of evolution is there would be more AI's than human beings. Human beings eventually will be endangered. AI's will run/control the world.
 kidreason29
Joined: 9/25/2015
Msg: 18
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 2/16/2017 12:13:45 AM
^ knowing that fact just makes everything now more worthwhile, to know that one day, what we have (love,etc) wont be here, or at least in the form that we know it as now
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 19
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 3/12/2017 8:26:11 AM

As an atheist and someone who accepts evolution as the reality that it is I find myself wondering where will life evolve from here if given the opportunity. For example in comparison to some of the simpler organisms we evolved from we would be considered to be like gods in comparison. If the earth is given the same amount of time from now to evolve further.


Evolution does not work like that.



Do you think some form of life could evolve to a point we might consider it a god at least in comparison?


Yes and No.

No, it is highly unlikely given the fact that environmental changes do not allow for 100% linear growth from an evolutionary perspective.

Yes, I think that some people could be convinced of anything, so while it would most likley not happen, someone will be able to trick a bunch of people into thinking it did.



For example a lobster being immortal. Judging by other organisms on the planet it shows life is capable of such abilities as to seem supernatural.


Lobsters are immortal?
 2plunk
Joined: 10/1/2016
Msg: 20
view profile
History
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 3/26/2017 7:09:55 PM
Funny thing about the word God—seems you can read everywhere what God can do
—But it’s hard to find what God is..

I think one of our biggest obstacles in understanding the word God, is—We have a bias / anthropomorphic
perspective. We can’t help it..

Imo—God is,, a description of, a state of complexity.
Meaning; A molecule is a God to a particle, and an ant, is a god to a leaf.

Matter has a predisposition to form more complex structures
It can either repel or attract,, when it attracts it becomes more complex.

The greater the complexity, the greater the variance of connectivity,
The greater the variance of connectivity, the more god like.

The point is—it’s not about the practical or molecule or an ant, it’s about states of complexity.
Complexity is defined by the units ability to interact / communicate..

The same way the variance of connectivity in our brain allows us to have a thought.
A galaxy may very well have that ability as well—In a god / supernatural like fashion..
 flman2015
Joined: 10/3/2015
Msg: 21
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 4/5/2017 5:38:00 PM
This thread reminded me of a book I read when I was a teenager.

It was a few million years from now and humanity had figured _everything_ out, except one last piece of knowledge that prevented them from creating a human life from scratch in a laboratory. Then one day, one of lab scientists experiences an epiphany and figures out the last little piece of missing knowledge, runs to the lab, mixes a bunch of stuff in a mold shaped as a human and shortly thereafter emerges a fully grown human being endowed with all the knowledge about everything.

As the newly formed human being inspects his surroundings (sexism still exists a few millions years from today), the sky opens and god appears. In a thunderous yet playful voice, he tells the folks in the lab, "ok... now it's my turn to count to 1 million and then start looking for you".

:-)
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 4/7/2017 1:53:54 AM
That's kinda funny.
 Etritonakin
Joined: 11/25/2016
Msg: 23
view profile
History
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 6/3/2017 8:51:04 AM
Short of receiving the supernatural bodies described in the bible, self-evolution and self-design would be necessary to make inhabiting many other worlds feasible -or even to give man increased invulnerability to natural earthly forces.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 24
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 6/3/2017 10:00:45 PM

self-evolution and self-design would be necessary to make inhabiting many other worlds


That ^ is not likely to happen...evolution per se cannot be counted upon...as 99% of all creatures that have ever lived are now extinct.

In order for mankind to forage into interstellar (or even intergalactic ) space....we must at some point be able to down-load our mental existence (conciousness) into a super-computer of sorts...in which we will be able to live indefinitely (in a post-human state)...and be able to travel anywhere in space without worry about life-span, illness, aging, nutrition, radiation effects, etc.

We could have the option of up-loading back into a (genetically engineered) being who can survive in an alien environment untenable for humans.

The notion that we will "evolve' to someday travel time; STAR-Trek style...is but a pipe dream.
we cannot ever violate the laws of physics. Space travel is a hazardous undertaking even if our propulsion system were many times better than what we have today. The distances are enormous; and the chances of finding a replica of Earth in our "neighborhood" seems unlikely.
 Etritonakin
Joined: 11/25/2016
Msg: 25
view profile
History
Possibilities of evolution
Posted: 6/6/2017 8:40:06 AM
I meant essentially designing a different sort of body for ourselves -which would probably need to happen over generations.
I don't think mankind has the patience to wait until able to download and upload, engineer an invulnerable body, etc.

An invulnerable body is not outside the realm of possibility, but the transition would be difficult, to say the least.

Death and resurrection into such a body is a much better option -and it has already been planned.

We cannot violate the laws of physics, but we may not understand all of the possibilities.

We are presently under those laws -just as our bodies bind us to an earth-like environment, and perhaps they can apply to us in a different way.
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