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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Should genetic testing be private or open?      Home login  
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 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 1
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Should genetic testing be private or open?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)

A little-noticed bill moving through Congress would allow companies to require employees to undergo genetic testing or risk paying a penalty of thousands of dollars, and would let employers see that genetic and other health information.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-republicans-let-employers-demand-100034946.html



Are you starting to feel like cattle? What could come up in your DNA that you don't know a thing about but that could be used against you? Would they move on to the government deciding if you were are 'real' American or someone to be deported even though you were born here? How far could it go, or do you like the idea and think it's fair game to let your unknowns be privy to employers/government, etc.?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 2
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/10/2017 2:45:24 PM
the obvious factor is insurance--if you have a gene for an expensive disease, they can start socking it to you now (or if the GOP drops the ball on health care, deny you coverage and use your genes as evidence). When I was a kid, the theory was that alcoholism was genetic, and if your credit card history showed you bought a bottle for a gift at Christmas, maybe an employer or your life insurance thru the company or anyone else red lines you. With data mining the way it is now, you can get a lot used against you.

Trumpets, I realize, you're sick of me picking on you. But, this is YOUR PARTY doing this nanny-state stuff. Big Biz wants it in order to take the guesswork out of profiting customers. Software can track your purchases online or thru a credit card, TiVo used to record your viewing choices, license plate readers on cop cars can make a record of where they've seen you...Libertarians are supposed to be against this. I understand, big biz wants it b/c they can reduce guesswork, like what employees may become problems, what exact consumers should they focus advertising dollars on. LEO loves the idea of recording what neighborhoods do what crimes, so that they can focus tax dollars there rather than patrol the entire city.

we live in this now. of course, we also reveal TMI about ourselves on FB, helping it out. but what else are we doing about it?

"Giving employers such power is now prohibited by legislation including the 2008 genetic privacy and nondiscrimination law known as GINA. The new bill gets around that landmark law by stating explicitly that GINA and other protections do not apply when genetic tests are part of a “workplace wellness” program. The bill was approved by a House committee on Wednesday, with all 22 Republicans supporting it and all 17 Democrats opposed."
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 3
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/10/2017 5:03:35 PM
There is no way I would allow them to reveal my genetic profile...regardless of what they threaten me with.
The GOP are just shills for big corps...and will do anything they ask them to; they'd sell their own mothers if the price was right!
 LLove2LaughToo
Joined: 6/6/2016
Msg: 4
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/10/2017 8:04:43 PM

Are you starting to feel like cattle? What could come up in your DNA that you don't know a thing about but that could be used against you? Would they move on to the government deciding if you were are 'real' American or someone to be deported even though you were born here? How far could it go, or do you like the idea and think it's fair game to let your unknowns be privy to employers/government, etc.?


Ever heard of the movie "Gattaca"?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 5
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Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/11/2017 11:42:30 AM
dayna ...
I have worked for various different companies and only one ever required a physical exam prior to employment which they paid for ... a restaurant. That was back in the late 60's and I think they just wanted to be sure we didn't have any communicable diseases as we were going to be handling food and serving customers.

As a nurse, most employers have required a drug test prior to being hired and I have no problem complying since I just don't do drugs ... never have. They also require annual TB testing ... no problem.

I've always felt that "genetic" testing wouldn't be a bad idea when we get ready to have children ... might be nice to know if we are going to "mix" well when it comes to having babies. I have a friend who's daughter is dating a man who has a child by a previous marriage that has cystic fibrosis.

I didn't know this but they now have a genetic test that helps identify adults who are carriers of the gene variations. In the case of cystic fibrosis, I believe both parents have to be a carrier in order for a child to have the disease.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved the first DNA-based blood test to help detect cystic fibrosis (CF). It is called the Tag-It™ Cystic Fibrosis Kit. This test analyzes human DNA to find genetic variations that may indicate cystic fibrosis. The test will be used to help diagnose cystic fibrosis in children and to identify adults who are carriers of the gene variations.


I think if adults want to know about things like that ... they should be allowed to have testing without having to reveal the results to the government or employers or health insurance companies. People should have a right to know what's going on with them (for example) before reproducing but it should only be between the two consenting adults.

I recall back in the 60's, my husband and I were neighbors with a young couple who decided not to have children because they said there was so much "genetic stuff" going on between the two of them, it would not be good for a child. The man got a vasectomy and they became foster parents for many children who wouldn't have had parents without them.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 6
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/11/2017 3:23:25 PM
Won't take a job requiring urinating in a jar and won't take one requiring genetic testing.

Hopefully by the time my kids are old enough, a business will be thriving and they do not have to subject themselves to saving some company money.

For insurance purposes?
It never ends at that. There eventually is some other way that they figure out to use what they have against you.

I don't do drugs.
Call me paranoid.
Whatever.
 sleeps_in_mouse_pajamas
Joined: 6/26/2016
Msg: 7
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/11/2017 7:08:16 PM
One of my friends told me that microchipping all humans is going to become a reality in the near future and that if a person refuses they will be jailed.

What if a person has a genetic profile that reveals they carry a cancer gene? If nobody employs that person, will there be a system in place that pays for their living expenses and future health expenses such as welfare or will their be a plan in place to euthanize folks so the system saves money?

In order for a person to 'volunteer' in a hospital they must have a tb test and be tested to see if they have immunization antibodies and if the person doesn't they have to get a booster. I find the latter test to be an invasion of privacy but if you want to be a volunteer you have to abide. I get that they want to maintain infection control what about the people visit the hospital with unknown contagious pathogens?

I dunno. This world is turning into mush. No wonder so many people are depressed in western society. Nobody gives a flying frog about the other person anymore and I wonder if they ever did because this was referenced in a novel I was reading that was written in the early 70s.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 8
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/11/2017 7:46:35 PM
deetristate- Actually, I agree with you.
That isn't impossible, despite our differences.
Anyway.........
As a nurse, I'm subject to random drug testing.
That is NO problem.
Back in the day when I was young and foolish, I tried a thing or two, these days, I'm older and wiser and know better than to put something in my body that could kill me or ruin my life.
Required genetic testing is just too, big brother-ish.
I don't need tests anyway.
I've lost 4 Aunts to cancer. Almost everyone in my family has some form of Arthritis, so I wasn't shocked when THAT diagnosis came years ago.
I'm going in 2 weeks for my yearly mammogram, being high risk, I have to go yearly.
It fills me with dread, every time, but it is what it is and I don't play around about it.
I suppose employers could make a case they don't want to hire someone like me, who's genetic history isn't that great, but people would be shocked if they knew, like I do, that there are a LOT of people with a genetic history that could make them un-employable, were we to stand quiet and support such testing.
VERY rare is the person who doesn't have SOMETHING in their background that COULD mean they will eventually find out they have a serious health problem.
So, NO, such a thing (required genetic testing to get a job) should NOT become common!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 9
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 5:43:13 AM
"One of my friends told me that microchipping all humans is going to become a reality in the near future and that if a person refuses they will be jailed. "

>>>Once we start genetically testing americans, it could be easy to go to the next step, storing the results with your Social Security number. Its just really ironic this is being brought to you by the political party that fears registering gun owners. Republicans talk about nanny-states, yet they want to test our genes. Maybe they should test how they fool people so easily.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkup/2010/10/is_there_a_gene_for_liberals.html

"What if a person has a genetic profile that reveals they carry a cancer gene?"

>>>well, that person better hope the Republicans replace Obamacare with anything but GOPdontcare. they've only had 7 years to come up with a plan, at least the Democrats came up with SOMETHING.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 10
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 7:50:30 AM
"One of my friends told me that microchipping all humans is going to become a reality in the near future and that if a person refuses they will be jailed. "

I can see Trump ordering all Muslims to be micro-chipped, and the Trumpsters would see nothing wrong with that. It's ironic though, that the Trumpsters don't call for a law where Muslims are banned from owning guns, since they think all Muslims are terrorists who are in the country to overthrow the U.S. But the NRA peaches paranoia, and tells people any kind of ban will lead to more gun restrictions and eventually a total ban on guns, and the minions go along with anything the NRA preaches..

I know of a company where employees punch in and out by placing their palm on a screen, and the computer does a palm recognition. I'm sure there are high security places that have entry systems by eye or fingerprint recognition. So genetic analysis and using that information for whatever reason doesn't seemed that far fetched. Insurance companies would love to get that information.
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 10:29:28 AM

Ever heard of the movie "Gattaca"?

Yes. That's a relevant response. Great movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpzVFdDeWyo
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 12
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 11:49:12 AM
The debate of "nature" (i.e. biology/genes) vs "nurture" (i.e. life choices / environment) comes into play here.

Genetic testing (and the consequences that flow from the processes, procedures, politics and privacies related to that) is based on the assumption that "nature" is the dominant and, generally, determining factor in health and aging.

But a relatively new science called epigenetics is proving that "nurture" has material impact on which genes are expressed or are suppressed and is more significant in health and quality of aging than "nature." In other words, studies so far indicate that for the genes studied, it is possible to suppress many genes that cause 'bad' health outcomes and express many genes that cause 'good' health outcomes.

What that means to politics is the military/industrial complex (which includes politicians and big pharma) get you both ways - when it's in their best interest to use the "nature" argument against you, then that's what they'll use and when it's in their best interest to use the "nurture" argument against you, then that's what they'll use.

You're being denied health insurance (or this job, or this place to live, or this place to socialize) because you carry a gene that is known to cause x (cancer, insanity, anti-social behavior, etc) and we all know that genes control your destiny.
Or

You're being denied health insurance (or this job, or this place to live, or this place to socialize) because you carry a gene that is known to cause x (cancer, insanity, anti-social behavior, etc). When you are able to prove you do/don't do a,b,c (stop eating anything not organic, not encased or stored in plastic, don't live near coal or garbage burning plants, avoid stress, etc) and pass our health and wellness exam (which will say somewhere around page 156 that your gene map is the final determination of receiving whatever it is you're seeking), then you may get in the queue for consideration.
Or

It's all your fault you're sick even though you have the gene for x it could have stayed dormant if you didn't do x (stop eating anything not organic, not encased or stored in plastic, don't live near coal or garbage burning plants, etc). You're being denied health insurance (or this job, or this place to live, or this place to socialize) because you are irresponsible and just want to be a leach on society.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 13
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Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 3:30:23 PM
Overall, my studies and observations of human behavior have repeatedly proven that if people can do something, that they will. And speaking of "expression of genetics and nature versus nurture," the environmental influence of profits has always accelerated the "nature-driven" predisposition of humans to act, when they are able to.

In short, since genetic profiling can lead to greater profits for insurance companies, it will be used.

I personally think that the best hope we have, is to advance past the insurance model altogether. Gambling against each other (which is what insurance is all about) isn't good for us. Too many people devote themselves to rigging the game in their favor.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 14
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 3:51:42 PM
I would guess all of this genetic stuff is poppycock to the people who believe in astrology, where the alignment of stars and planets determines what a person is like and how their life will end up.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 3/29/2014
Msg: 15
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 4:19:27 PM
^^Yes of course. That's why as early as 2009 the top 10 institutions publishing research papers on epigenetics were (drumroll please for these metaphysical totally woo woo institutions with zero scientific cred):
1) Johns Hopkins 347 [papers cited >21,000 times
2) Harvard 307 papers
3) National Cancer Institute
4) U of So Cal 114 papers cited >7,300 times
5) U of Virginia
6) U of Cambridge
7) MIT
8) Vienna Biocenter
9) U of California San Fran
10) Babraham Institute (UK)

Source: Thomson Reuters, Science Watch March 2009
 2ufo2
Joined: 8/29/2016
Msg: 16
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 5:10:17 PM
What do they call those insurance guys who do the math? Actuaries?
I can see it now as the interviewers gather for the conference deciding on their choice of who to hire...

Well, candidate one has a 1 in 1,000 chance of developing skin cancer by the time he's 34.
He doesn't eat bacon or any nitrate produces, so that reduces his chances to 1 in 4,000. Plus he's a non-smoker.
But candidate two is clear on the cancer gene - less than 1 in ten billion.
She carries the addiction gene homozygously. That could be worrisome.
Addictions can be chemically managed. We can set her in the anti-anxiety department.
Did candidate one have markers for multiple myeloma, liver, or brain cancer? Those are the expensive ones.
No, he's clear on those. However, parents have had three automobile accidents in the past decade.
And?
He learned how to drive from them. Combined with his near-sightedness, it's not a chance we want to take.
It's not a driver position.
Per regulations, driving to or from work has been included in insurance coverage.
Fine, fine. We'll go with candidate two.
She failed the duty requirements test and there's an unidentified mutation in her genetics. MIT has just offered her a fake position not too far from their genetics lab.
Then take candidate one but make sure that his insurance is doubled and he doesn't drive anything.
And I remember when we used to hire people because they could actually do the job.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 17
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Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 5:23:39 PM
Well now we may all end up working in coal mines, since it's going to be the future of America, yikes!, so there's that. :P

I can see good and bad, of course, when it comes to this sort of thing, but mostly my DNA is surely not the business of corrupt politicians and corrupt insurance companies, which of course, are the two most likely to get this info. Drug testing I understand, but most people know how to fake a drug test and my worry is what lab is doing this, who is the tech, and what's the purpose for the testing, those things are in the hands of others and out of your control.

It would be interesting to have my DNA tested and know all those little quirky things, but no one else should have it. I can see the point of microchips when used in criminals or when someone is missing, etc., but again, there is always that corrupt POS using this stuff for greed & power. Insurance companies are out of control,
 therainman2
Joined: 3/4/2017
Msg: 18
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Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 6:16:18 PM
This just sounds like we will be losing even more privacy and freedom. What else is new? This whole system in America with our health care has been a laughing joke since Clinton (Bill).
 LOLTrump
Joined: 3/7/2017
Msg: 19
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/12/2017 6:26:47 PM

This whole system in America with our health care has been a laughing joke since Clinton (Bill).


Did you forget what country you signed up to POF with?
 funchesf
Joined: 6/27/2014
Msg: 20
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/15/2017 8:32:35 AM

Posted By: daynadaze
Are you starting to feel like cattle?

"Soylent Green is people" ...or perhaps Spam is ..or perhaps Chicken McNuggets are


Posted By: daynadaze
What could come up in your DNA that you don't know a thing about but that could be used against you?

being a Mutant could probably be used against them ....with all the new chemicals and elements being introduced into air water and thus into the food chain deceptively and acceptably referred to as "Global Warming, Climate Change" ... it's inevitable to test if Man is evolving into another Species or into whatever....


A little-noticed bill moving through Congress would allow companies to require employees to undergo genetic testing or risk paying a penalty of thousands of dollars, and would let employers see that genetic and other health information.

it's the same as demanding that Welfare recipients take drug testing to receive benefits ...and now the same thing is about to happen to the Middle Class with Genetic Testing...which is why once you agree that it's ok to take away someone's "supposed" rights then you open the door to take away your "supposed" rights .. the mentality is since the employer is providing the employee with health care then the employee should in return forfeit some of their rights ...


Posted By: gtomustang
the obvious factor is insurance

under Obamacare you wouldn't have to rely on your employer's insurance but once Obamacare is repealed then ponzi scheme companies like "Mein Kampf Insurance" or "Alt-Right Mutual" will start popping up which your DNA info will be sold...oops..er..I meant your DNA info will be "Analyzed Categorized and Logged for Future Studies" by "others"


Posted By: CynthiaSM
You're being denied health insurance (or this job, or this place to live, or this place to socialize) because you carry a gene that is known to cause x (cancer, insanity, anti-social behavior, etc) and we all know that genes control your destiny.

it's clearly a way around the second amendment ...which is why the NRA began to back-pedal when it came to mental health being an issue pertaining to the right to bear arms ....because genetic testing can be used as a valid reason to deny those with an antisocial insanity gene the right to bear arms which in turn will cause them to be ostracized by their neighbors and society

and that is most likely what this DNA testing is all about ushering in The Age of Eugenics ....technology is advancing at such a rate that one day everyone will have the knowledge and the means to destroy mankind...Genetic testing would provide a way to detect and rid the planet of those that have those specific antisocial genes .

Genetic Testing would answer the question if a "Religious or God Gene" exist and if so it would probably end Religion ...I mean let's face it, you can't have someone such as a next door neighbor that follow the commands of unprovable entities that was delivered unto them by their talking dog and then entrust them with the technological power to destroy the world minus any failsafes

the reasons to rid the planet of religion is in fact biblical itself...when God grieved for creating Man but yet allowed Noah and the rest of the ark crew to live knowing they had within themselves the same gene that would cause them to repeat the same crap that cause him to flood the planet in the first place when he should have drowned everyone and recreated the Human Race or at the least removed the religious gene.... but then he wouldn't have any followers...it's a catch 22


Posted By: daynadaze
I can see good and bad, of course, when it comes to this sort of thing, but mostly my DNA is surely not the business of corrupt politicians and corrupt insurance companies,

but it can be argued in court that your DNA is their business and most likely they will win ....since they are insuring the company you work for they would need to know what they are insuring and the risk involved ...if someone at the workplace has an antisocial gene which might result in them going "Postal" the insurance rates will be adjusted in kind so the company most likely won't hire such a person with such a gene
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 21
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/15/2017 8:52:46 AM
"but it can be argued in court that your DNA is their business and most likely they will win."

What would be next? Insurance companies telling people who don't have "proper" genes that they shouldn't be having kids and should be sterilized, because of the risk of passing on those "bad" genes, and will drop coverage of anybody who defies the "no breeding" clause in their policy, or deny insurance to people who have "bad" genes, but already have kids? What about the offspring of people who are labelled to have bad genes? Would the offspring carry the label of being a potential bad gene risk forever because of a parent's gene profile?
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 22
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/15/2017 9:37:33 AM
Just like anything else, just say "no."
They wanted employees at one job I had to sign a document giving them access to personal email. We just refused to sign it. It went away.

Problem these days is people are so scared of employers and the government.

I can always clean houses to make money rather than submit to that.

I refuse to just accept that these things are inevitable.
 tomfiend
Joined: 3/9/2017
Msg: 23
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/15/2017 9:46:43 AM

"but it can be argued in court that your DNA is their business and most likely they will win."


Whether an employer can legally demand your DNA makeup before employment is open for debate, but I don't believe a Court would sanction it...its an invasion of privacy...protected by the Constitution.

Whether Congress can mandate a fine for refusing to provide genetic information.... No chance....that would never pass Constitutional Muster....

But....your DNA can be lifted from a coffee cup....so who knows what nefarious means a company would go to to see your genetic profile.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 24
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/15/2017 9:53:31 AM
in the end, big biz will love it b/c its analytical and clear and "proveable". If you have X gene, then you will have X. Science sez so, it must be true. Inject nuture or butterfly effects or any other factor that can alter the development of the X gene, and now "We" can't decide what you might turn into....and that's a risk. Easier for the pencil pushers to say, you've got X gene, you'll end up with X, we have to cover ourselves so we can reduce risk.

health care a joke since Bill Clinton and Hillary tried to do something about it? You mean "9 out of 10 doctors smoke Pall Malls" wasn't funny? :)

"Age of Eugenics" is an interesting reference, the end of the 1920's I think was the first age of eugenics as the science that was going to save society. Criminals have certain skull shapes, and of course it eventually "legitimized" Hitler's hatred of Jews.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 25
Should genetic testing be private or open?
Posted: 3/15/2017 10:48:18 AM
What is in any individual's genes is beyond their control.
So any attempt by employers, (or the government,) to somehow "use" that information, as the basis for any decisionsabout you, is nothing more than "discrimination".

So my answer is "private". Always.
Obviously, it should only ever be used for the purposes of medical precautions, against likely predispositions to disease.
- But even then, many people would still prefer not to "know", so it has to be with consent.
However.....

In my "ideal world", I'd like to see anyone convicted of any "racially aggravated crime", (or any such stupidity) given a mandatory "sentence" of being told the exact geographic origins of their many and diverse genetic ancestors, and so help dispel the rise of the kinds "popular nationalism" (/"racism"), which we're currently seeing, raising its ugly little head (again), all over the world.
(Note: not the medical information, unless with consent)

Science should be playing a greater, and more active role in undermining all these stupid notions of "racial purity", or even of "race" at all.
Eg The "jews" would in fact be the same "race" as the Palestinians. (If "race" existed, at all, which I don't think it does.)
There are far too many such "tribal" disputes, like that, based on such erroneous beliefs in "race".

I'd just love to be the person who got to tell some "white supremacist" that he was "8% Sub-Saharan African".
And I'd make that information "open". "For his own good", obviously.

I remember reading somewhere, that every single person alive today, is related, to something like "52nd cousin".

I know, I know.
You all think I'm a bit "kumbayah". (sp?)
I'm just hoping that one day, science will provide enough information to stop all the rest of you "tribal types", from wanting to keep murdering each other, periodically.
I can dream, can't I
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