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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after wha      Home login  
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 PopCultureGeek
Joined: 11/27/2016
Msg: 1
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?Page 1 of 1    
Couldn't fit everything in the title, anyway, this is what I've noticed for a couple years now, and it has kinda always bothered me, annoyed me, filled me with resentment, whenever I hear a discussion, conversation, words or sentences that involve the words, phrases "going for what you want, go for what you want, goes for what he wants or going after what you want" it's always associated with masculinity, manliness, etc.

So what is the logic behind why going after what you want or going for what you want is masculine, manly behavior? Me personally I've never been a fan of masculinity, I've kinda always resented it, like I've always hated certain gender roles, and I got this response from somewhere, this is what it said:

"It is masculine to do, act, build, create.

It is unmasculine to sit back, procrastinate, be lazy, let life happen to you."

So in other words, women were meant to just "exist" in life and do little or do nothing? I'm not trying to bash women here, seriously some guy actually wrote that to me, etc.
 halforhalfnot
Joined: 9/13/2016
Msg: 2
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 9/8/2017 7:10:07 PM
Number one, it doesn't need to be explained by logic. That's what masculine means. In the same way that fast means moving quickly.

Secondly, unmasculine is not the same as feminine. Feminine is not defined as "just existing."
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 3
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 9/8/2017 7:26:06 PM
It sounds to me like you're making the classic mistake known as "caring what stupid people think". Is there any particular reason you have for this self-limiting behaviour?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 9/9/2017 5:03:55 AM
Hmm. Well, what I've always heard and seen, is that "going after what you want," or "being willing to do what is necessary to get what you want" isn't masculine or feminine, it's just being a responsible adult of any kind.

The only reason I can come up with why someone would conclude that it was ONLY masculine, is because lots of people speak about pretty much everything in old-fashioned, archaic ways, and the gender article traditionally used by old-fashioned people, is "he," or "him." In lots of old writings, including our own Constitution and Declaration of Independence, that tradition is seen wherein only all MEN are created equal, for example. Women aren't mentioned in either base document. That doesn't mean that women are ignored directly, but it does reveal some old traditional thought patterns, impeding the minds of some older people.

If you add in the rather crude, thoughtless and despicable way that certain groups, even today, like to insult others by saying they "act like girls," and it's not hard to understand why someone might put that all together and think it's also only considered masculine to "be a go getter." There is still a lot of misogyny built in to American insult behaviors, and with the thoughtless backlash against "political correctness," it's getting worse, rather than better. (Note, that is not me supporting P.C, that's me opposing the CARELESS Anti-PC movement, which is as bad or worse than the unthinking PC movement was).
 PopCultureGeek
Joined: 11/27/2016
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 9/10/2017 1:09:22 AM
ya, basically I hate and resent having to "penetrate"
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 6
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 9/11/2017 12:18:26 PM
Women are receiving, encompassing and containing, possibly, providing and generating life in their womb- men are not penetrating they are entering with consent... lol and often this accepted logical fallacy of penetration can result in violence. Even as men believe in penetration-women who believe or accept a position of penetrated and glorify this position or believe themselves to be subjects of penetration- is a very difficult social norm to change. I have hope for future generations in abjuring these standard ideologies.- Good discussion topic..
 PopCultureGeek
Joined: 11/27/2016
Msg: 7
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 9/20/2017 2:17:27 AM
ya and guys are not supposed to hate or resent this, what bothers me more is when people say we do the choosing, or that us guys have control, I never saw it that way. Another response I got from somewhere is: "Getting past your shyness is part of becoming an adult. If you cannot ask a girl on a date, how are you going to be able to ask a boss for a job or a teacher for a chance at a better grade. Being able to go after what you want/need is what separates the men from the boys."

That really pissed me off the most, so if a woman goes after what she wants, that makes her masculine?
 PopCultureGeek
Joined: 11/27/2016
Msg: 8
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 9/29/2017 6:32:39 PM
What is the god damn logic behind why taking initiative is a masculine trait, masculine thing? It really pisses me off and I've always resented doing it
 2plunk
Joined: 10/1/2016
Msg: 9
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/15/2017 5:41:59 PM
So what is the logic ? – there is none.. sm.

Bottom line, woman are changing—big time,
and once they’ve figure out, what they’re supposed to do.
Man can figure out-- how to react.

Till then—keep your head down—smile and say ‘yes mam’
Make sure you teach your children all you’ve learned..
And everything will be Okay..
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 10
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/16/2017 4:05:03 PM
It is not women only who perpetuate these roles-you step in and do it-you missed humor-if that was your attempt-instead you exemplified the irrationality the OP posed and logic questioned..

Bottom line, woman are changing—(...)
and once they’ve figure out, what they’re supposed to do. Man can figure out-- how to react.

Most women as well as men resent the whole idea of "supposed to do" that is exactly the masculine/feminine ideology challenged in the discussion topic. The reason women and men are changing is because they challenge masculine and feminine roles. It is no longer accepted, that a tenet of masculinity is agreeing with the tenet of hysterical illogical feminine. Or females have no idea what they want... or what they are supposed to do..This is dinosaur thinking.
Get with the program do not base your masculine identity on your relationships with women"man can figure out how to react"- have your own identity-nobody cares if you reveal your heterosexual misconceptions to further your relationships with women in general. As if saying "If a man in society who wants to get laid(or have female companionship) he must pander to women"- really This is far from the current social climate.. even gender assignment is challenged...
- which is why -Thank God- ideology is changing and roles are being challenged.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 11
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/16/2017 6:42:47 PM
PopCultureGeek- I'm not clear on what you resent.
Do you think women "expect" you to be masculine? Do you think we think you should make the first move?
Or, do you reject your male peers who think you aren't "manly" if you aren't assertive?
Either way, you are renting other people space in your head.
There are people of both genders who have old fashioned notions of what is "feminine" and what is "masculine."
It's a self limiting mind set born of a stubborn refusal to progress, which is sad, in a way.
You can NEVER control other people.
All that matters is knowing who YOU are, what you stand for, what you want for yourself and from life.
Whatever "that" is, go for it. It's on you to make a good life for yourself and no one else.
There will always be people who point fingers at others. Reject it. Those kinds of people just don't want to face the mirror, so they nit pick at other people.
Those are people to stay away from. Look at it that way. You recognize it, so consider it a good thing that you recognize toxic, miserable people.
STOP letting what other people think matter to you. Focus your thoughts on being your best self, not what someone else says you should be.
 2plunk
Joined: 10/1/2016
Msg: 12
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/20/2017 8:18:50 PM

It is not women only who perpetuate these roles-you step in and do it-you missed humor-if that was your attempt-instead you exemplified the irrationality the OP posed and logic questioned..


Relax--

We-- as a society have been shifting in our understanding of, what it is to be, male and female.
Actually—I’ll stick my neck out here—sm.
Woman,, have been shifting in their understanding of who they are.
Not so much men—why ? –We didn’t have to.. Are roll was rolling along just fine..

Think about a woman and man – 1920s, 1940s even 1950s, and how they would have dressed for a social function.
Now consider 2017—and a man and woman dressing to go out for a social function.
The woman can be dressed in black pants with an open collar T-shirt and a black leather jacket, and look stunning !

Ok –now picture a man in that same time frame—that would be like going from..

A man wearing black pants with an open collar T-shirt and a black leather jacket
To
A man wearing a -- pink dress and a, poke-a-dot parasol.

It’s a morphing reflection, of the populations needs.
Socioeconomics, new drugs, education, have all contributed to cultural shift—
This shift has had a profound effect on the feminine status.
Men not so much—

While this is nothing new in history—I’m quite sure the woman of Rome experienced a similar—perhaps even greater shift during the Punic wars—Where they stay home and ran the sate of affairs.

OP is justified—and is a reflection of the confusion.
Fermium and masculine equality—sounds great.

So--
When the captain yells –‘to the lifeboats—Men and children first..’

Would you be ok with that ?
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 13
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/23/2017 7:36:56 AM
A better choice is for her to tell her passengers- aged, children, handicapped first then able adult men and women. In many native American cultures, it is elders, infirm, children- then healthy able bodied men and women. really do not see the need to separate by sex.


Not so much men—why ? –We didn’t have to.. Are roll was rolling along just fine.
This is exactly with what many are having difficulty. Retaining status quo behavior and communication styles from the 20th century creates struggles in many arenas-(intimate, employment,political relations)- refusing to accept and make adjustments to accommodate the changing social structure. For both men and women entrenched in past social role identity. "The will to Change" Bella Hooks. Many women who have sons perpetuate the patriarchal masculine identity.

Clothes are just fashion statements have little to do with standing in society. A bald women with a beard and mustache- would her beauty still resonate? Does a women of today even need to worry about who finds her attractive? Or men for that matter? Wear and style yourself in your comfort.

FYI not at all tense or upset? just my pure observation of your written statement.
 2plunk
Joined: 10/1/2016
Msg: 14
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/26/2017 5:10:33 PM
OP—What’s the logic ?

The logic is-- A need to change.

And If Women feel that equality is in order, then---
All men should be able to get together, and burn their jock straps..
You should organize a bonfire—sm.


This is exactly with what many are having difficulty. Retaining status quo behavior and communication styles from the 20th century creates struggles in many arenas-(intimate, employment,political relations)- refusing to accept and make adjustments to accommodate the changing social structure. For both men and women entrenched in past social role identity. "The will to Change" Bella Hooks. Many women who have sons perpetuate the patriarchal masculine identity.


Agree—full heartily..
But—it’s difficult to redirect the herd, and there’s always opposition to change.
But change has come—whether you’re a man or a woman—the herd is shifting.
Perhaps not fast enough for some—But I guarantee, if women desire it to be –it shall be..
Unless there’s a concerted effort to-- repress...

And of course that’s a digression for another thread.
I’m always amazed at- how deep a good question can go.

And lastly--the change is more than a Male Female issue—
it’s about equal human rights.
Children, women, men, black, white, the lost tribe—
what ever,, slavery and oppression is being questioned once again.
 reason782
Joined: 1/28/2017
Msg: 15
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/30/2017 2:06:15 AM

whenever I hear a discussion, conversation, words or sentences that involve the words, phrases "going for what you want, go for what you want, goes for what he wants or going after what you want" it's always associated with masculinity, manliness, etc.


Really, how often do you hear this?


So what is the logic behind why going after what you want or going for what you want is masculine, manly behavior? Me personally I've never been a fan of masculinity, I've kinda always resented it, like I've always hated certain gender roles, and I got this response from somewhere, this is what it said:
"It is masculine to do, act, build, create. It is unmasculine to sit back, procrastinate, be lazy, let life happen to you."


So anything masculine you aren't a 'fan' of? It shouldn't matter.


So in other words, women were meant to just "exist" in life and do little or do nothing? I'm not trying to bash women here, seriously some guy actually wrote that to me, etc.


That's some guy for you.
 Inicia
Joined: 4/12/2015
Msg: 16
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/30/2017 5:29:00 AM

That's some guy for you.
really humorous. like it.
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 17
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 10/30/2017 1:04:00 PM
Men are stronger. So men have always made all of the important decisions. Women are not evolved to make important decisions. They're very emotional. Good for looking after small children. But give women political power and you get liberalism
 2plunk
Joined: 10/1/2016
Msg: 18
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 11/1/2017 6:02:10 PM

Men are stronger. So men have always made all of the important decisions. Women are not evolved to make important decisions. They're very emotional. Good for looking after small children. But give women political power and you get liberalism


Not so sure I should venture into this—sm.
But I feel like writing.

I can’t say I agree with that statement, but I‘m no expert.

--imo.

I say woman have always been a solid structure in the curvature of history..
I can’t think of a single important decision that has been decreed, ‘without’
the involvement of woman..
I think the notion of strength being confined to physicality is a non-starter.
Strength of—Character, Conviction, Belief, Action—all of which can and do,
over come physical strength.

Reflection—
Reading about food tasters the royal beef-eaters—etc..
You can have a million man beer-drinking brawlers standing on guard,
But if the food, water, or wine is –shall we say tainted—you’re dead..

And who do you think had the best kitchen recipes ?

Remember Grandma’s little-book of remedies—sm…

Happy Halloween !
 PopCultureGeek
Joined: 11/27/2016
Msg: 19
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What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 2/3/2018 1:51:07 AM
I've just always hated and resented it with a huge passion that I want no part of it
 whosmeow
Joined: 10/19/2017
Msg: 20
What is the logic behind why going for what you want, going after what you want, is masculine?
Posted: 2/3/2018 3:37:05 AM
I feel that in the American culture current gender lines have become blurred enough that this next generation will be the first not to face this issue.
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