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 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 1
Healthcare For AllPage 1 of 1    
What seems to be needed in the U S A as well as other countries, such as the U K, is universal healthcare that covers auditory, dental, occular &c health. Whether as a result of the ambitions of Bernie Sanders etc, my instincts tell me that its introduction is inevitable. But the N H S, with its insatiable thirst for funding, conceit of nurses, arrogance of physicians, laziness of some surgeons, tardiness of response and corruption may not, despite its admirable qualities, be a model for copying. Therefore, the question is how to organise a system that serves the people responsively and affordably
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 2
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/14/2017 11:54:19 AM
From what I'm seeing of its patient customers or clients having to wait for ages to consult a family physician &c, I'd say that the the Canadian health-system is also in need of reformation
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 3
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History
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/14/2017 1:07:00 PM

my instincts tell me that its introduction is inevitable


Don't hold your breath.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 4
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/14/2017 3:17:07 PM
^


Don't hold your breath.


I might get here sooner than you think because the current patchwork system we have is not sustainable
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 5
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/18/2017 9:24:30 AM
In glancing at how healthcare is provided in several well-known countries, I'd say that it could be improved in most of them: and that, in the times before its adoption of full-blown artificial intelligence, the internet would play an important part in that. These improvements would be in widening the coverage and making it responsive, effectual, safe and affordable. But there should also be a betterment in customer or client protocol. These scarce resources oughtn't be apportioned, unfairly, to some groups more than for others
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 6
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/18/2017 11:08:19 AM
If National Government is to be the ultimate funder of healthcare, this may impinge on the allocation, in general, of welfare benefits. In times when such actions are affected by political 'correctness', surely it is appropriate to question whether the continually-pregnant, those diagnosed as being mentally-ill, hordes of immigrant families, those who'd like us or themselves to believe that they are 'addicted' to some seemingly glamorous substance &c are receiving far more than their fair share. In the U K, it appears to be a widespread activity that parents-in-the-know get their children 'diagnosed' as being 'autistic', 'dyslexic', 'attention-deficit-disordered' or what have you, in order to obtain superior treatment and enhanced welfare-benefits. And there seems to be more of this going on than meets the eye, for it's in the interests of those profiting from it to try and keep such to themselves. This deprives traditional medicine of the resources it needs to make accurate, speedy and affordable diagnoses, and to prescribe effectual, safe and economical treatments
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 7
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Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/18/2017 2:23:43 PM
I agree that some version of universal health care is inevitable, for two reasons:
1. Everyone we compete with has it already, so we cripple our private industry competitively as long as we continue to refuse to do the same;

2. Medical care delivery is one of the elements of human life which DOES NOT FIT the basic requirements of anything which can be successful, using a capitalist competitive free market approach. This is because the profitable PRODUCT of a successful medical situation, is someone who doesn't need the services that the industry best provides.

But I'm sorry, there is no hope at all that doctors will stop being arrogant. This is because the process that people go through to BECOME doctors has been designed to thoroughly ferret out anyone who isn't an arrogant jerk, and flunk them out of the system.

You might as well call for an end to NFL quarterbacks, who think they sit at the right hand of God.
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 8
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/18/2017 3:40:36 PM
It seems to go something like so. If physicians, surgeons &c are appointed to control, apply or distribute considerable otherwise scarce resources, as they would, in a regular system of universal healthcare, they might well get conceited; and if paid direct for their work by, say, central government, arrogant and wasteful with it. In other words, to keep them on their toes and, maybe, humble, they should be remunerated by their customers, who could claim that they be reimbursed for such by their health authority. And by that means the sick or afflicted would become their clients too
 BeckyHT
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 9
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Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/21/2017 2:53:57 PM


I agree that some version of universal health care is inevitable, for two reasons:
1. Everyone we compete with has it already, so we cripple our private industry competitively as long as we continue to refuse to do the same;


Universal Healthcare isn't just inevitable. It's desirable.

How do you like our American system of health care where you can go bankrupt getting medical care? I know people who have.
In the Canadian system, you don't pay anything when you go in to your doctor(s) or hospitals(s). No one is refused medical help because they can't pay.

I have no problem paying a single payer system a 'tax', like paying for Soc. Sec. your whole life, in return for having medical care available to all. I've paid for medical insurance all my life, why not just pay into a single payer system?

I want everyone, all my neighbors and friends, to have equal access to health care.

I want to see Insurance companies (the middle men) gone!
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 10
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/21/2017 3:52:38 PM
The main reason for my non-US residence is that, on being over sixty-five and not a US citizen, I wouldn't, till attaining the latter be eligible for getting non-private healthcare. But on the occasions when I am there by virtue of being married to a US citizen, health insurance-premiums, though not over-expensive, are more than I can afford, though I do not blame the insurance companies. Therefore, if universal healthcare were introduced, I might return. Mind you, the U S A, is not as desirable a country to live in as it seemed to me in England years ago
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 11
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/22/2017 5:56:13 AM
#7


But I'm sorry, there is no hope at all that doctors will stop being arrogant. This is because the process that people go through to BECOME doctors has been designed to thoroughly ferret out anyone who isn't an arrogant jerk, and flunk them out of the system.


^that some docs are arrogant and selfish is not untrue....but the system in the US has where a student who pursues the career of MD; has to jump through many loops, spends about 10 years (beyond college), and usually in debt for quite a bit of money. Thus, the typical doc in the US has to stay alive in a cut-throat system whereby he must deal with difficult insurance companies, rising gov't regulations, rising overhead. This is generally why the age of neighborhood primary care doctor is coming to an end; and the populace is being shunted toward large consortium providers who are far more impersonal

His counter part in the EU, gets his/her education at a nominal charge...with little or no debt; and who has far less overhead.
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 12
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/22/2017 6:28:56 AM
^^
The Great Analist, more like
I do wish that you'd stop attempting to present yourself as a great analyst on matters from specious linguistics to the easier types of science. And do bear in-mind that this topic is not a foil for a personal attack but intended to be on a constructive discussion of healthcare.
The second (or – for the innumerate 'scientist' – first-from) most important reason for my UK-residence is that I don't like living with my US wife. And so, on being separated for good, I like to keep things simple by describing myself as single, which is, after all, what I am to most intents or purposes
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 13
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/22/2017 11:51:14 AM
'Actually' (as you keep putting it), I do not live with my wife: we haven't been together since 18 January 2017
She resides in what I call 'Sasquatch County' in the northwestern U S A; and I am in northeastern England
Therefore, as I haven't stated otherwise, you are 'actually' lying or imagining things. And, if the foregoing's to go by, Goodness knows what a mess you may be in in your field of 'science'
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 14
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/22/2017 12:42:46 PM
To save all the effort that you appear to be putting into spoiling the topic, wouldn't it be easier for you just to admit that you're a fraud? And, in returning to the matter of healthcare, may I wish you success in getting treatment for your mental health. Maybe, putting your photo (if it's not too scary) in your icon here would be a sound first step
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 15
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/22/2017 1:33:19 PM
As I was saying, it's feasible and safe to have affordable universal healthcare
The premises should be similar to clean budget hôtels and on the outskirts of town. The plentiful parking bays would be big enough to accommodate vans full of the best diagnostic or medical equipment, which would transfer from site to site. The ground floor would house general medical consulting rooms and a cafeteria-or-two; the first floor, the specialist's suites; and immediately above them, the rooms – one for each customer. The operating theatres would be atop the building and, on its northern side if in the northern hemisphere or the southern, if below the equator.
The physicians would be quickly and plentifully trained so as to make use of the interweb &c, in that they'd concentrate on diagnosis and medication, and in conditions of great competition. In other words, it would be no big deal to become a 'doctor'. The surgeons would be thoroughly-trained, though not unnecessarily-so. And they would operate in conditions of great competition and maximal assistance from robots
Nurses would be trained mainly 'on the job', so as to focus on nursing the sick, rather than to write reports on their condition &c. And technicians wouldn't be trained in medical matters
And eventually, we'd each come to be competent enough, with the aid of the interweb, artificial intelligence etc to diagnose and treat ourselves. Each one of us could be a 'doctor', though maybe not a nurse or orderly
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 16
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/23/2017 3:36:24 AM
Your ungrammatical, erratic style of expression shows that there's little that's erotic in your life. You are seething with frustration. And you don't have the courage to display a photo of yourself in here. You must be ugly too. No wonder at that you are intent on little more than spoiling someone else's work. Oughtn't you have your mental health examined?
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 17
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/23/2017 4:12:36 AM
As I was saying—
Healthcare costs could be cut enormously. The system by which the sufferer has no option but to consult an overpaid member of a monopoly profession, with its longwinded, often unscientific, sometimes meaningless language such as 'fibromyalgia', is unbalanced and unfair. And, as I understand it, 'medical' error is the third- (ie, second-from-) largest cause of death in the U S A
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 18
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:59:22 AM
Well eventually health care costs will have to be cut or the country will be bankrupted. Which is why a one-payer system that determines the reasonable compensation to be paid to the health care providers will sooner or later be a fact in the US... but its going to be awhile. Taking the for profit insurance industry out of the equation will itself save a huge amount of money, and reduce administrative costs of the healthcare system also. The UK system is far superior to the US system with the caveat that the US still offers cutting edge medical treatment, but it does really poorly in providing generally decent medical care to the masses.
 DDSearle
Joined: 5/20/2017
Msg: 19
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/26/2017 4:24:30 PM
Isn't it demeaning to the rest of us that physicians or surgeons can charge so much for a short (largely unscientific) consultation that the patient customer or client would have to work for a week-or-so in order to pay for it? And which of us needs to deal with someone who has spent years in learning the function and name of each and every blood-vessel, bone, muscle, nerve and Goodness knows what in the human body, when all of that and more is available, free-of-charge, on the interweb? With a considerably shortened course of study or training, there could be many more medical attendants, who would compete so much more with one-another that their charges would be reduced and their modus operandi made more efficient, user-friendly &c. After all, instead of portraying themselves as great scientists, they would serve us better if, employed as technicians that were required to do little more than to diagnose accurately, quickly and affordably; and, to treat us effectually, safely etc. Why, there could even be competitions for them in practical diagnosis
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 20
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Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:30:42 PM
Yes, a little bit of politics is involved!
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 21
Healthcare For All
Posted: 9/27/2017 8:20:53 AM

Isn't it demeaning to the rest of us that physicians or surgeons can charge so much for a short (largely unscientific) consultation that the patient customer or client would have to work for a week-or-so in order to pay for it?


A week? How about a year. I know doctors who have charged well into six figures for surgical procedures...sometimes they actually get paid that amount. I know a person, as I have their medical bill, and the medical office had the audacity to charge $18,000.00 for one office visit and a steroid injection. I know a person who went to a doctor for kidney surgery...he would not accept her medicare...said he would only do the surgery for $30,000.

If they can get it, they will charge it, if not, they increase their negotiating position. The sense of entitlement from some of the practicing physicians in the US is abhorent. But most doctors now work for larger practices as salaried employees. They make a decent living, but not like the crooks on Wallstreet are making.

As for computers...they are already in many cases doing a far better job of diagnosing conditions than a human can do...but it is going to be a while until they take over.

And they do have medical techs doing lots of the work in the US... they are called physicians assistants... the care is usually decent and reasonably priced. For serious conditions of course, you will always need a trained physician.
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