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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem      Home login  
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 NewYorker58
Joined: 6/11/2013
Msg: 1
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthemPage 1 of 45    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
So, what do you think? Is disrespecting our anthem and our military the way to go? Social media is lighting up with everyone saying they will not attend the games or watch them or buy any sports memorabilia anymore. Mind you, this isn't about President Trump. This disrespect started under the Obama Administration with Colin Kaepernick taking a knee during our national anthem. It was also followed by him wearing socks to practice that depicted pigs wearing cop uniforms. If anything it would be a reflection of Obama being anti-cop.

People stating they will not watch NFL games anymore also state that they are veterans or they have parents that were veterans and had their parent's caskets draped in the American flag and were presented with the folded American flag upon their parent's death.

Really, how do you sit or kneel on the field during our anthem while the flag is on the field with our military and sometimes military personnel are singing The Anthem? Football is called a Pastime because it is used to pass time when people want to relax, and they don't want to see politics inserted into football that is meant to be entertainment, while these players are free to protest at police stations or to their senators or congressmen or women.
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 2
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 4:54:35 PM
The players have a right to #TakeAKnee in protest...

And POTUS, the fans and every other American have the same freedom to express either support or displeasure.


Personally, I feel they chose the wrong symbol and venue. And they can't win this one.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 3
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 6:02:24 PM
..... it might beg the question ~ does this protest, bring drastic attention to their cause ?
we all know the answer, to that question ....

...... i'm really not that bothered with it, but I do have a problem with ...
attacking the police, destruction of property & harm being done to innocents ...
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 4
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 6:15:54 PM
https://qz.com/1086387/trump-vs-nfl-football-players-did-not-have-to-stand-for-national-anthem-until-2009/
Apparently it's not a long standing tradition, only having been instituted since 2009 and players have never been mandated to stand. As stated, it's a pastime event that should probably have team songs and banners only that apply to the actual game. What I find ironic about Trump getting his snot in a knot about the whole issue is citing patriotism and honouring veterans when he wasn't patriotic enough himself to serve and dodged a number of times. For him, it's just a platform for an agenda like it is for those taking the knee. He's the least patriotic president to date.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 5
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 6:35:41 PM
^^^ " least patriotic president "

I say this with all due respect chameleonf ~ in my op >
OBAMA was the least patriotic !
& an American apologist, to boot ...
I don't need or want, any president apologizing for the United States ...

& as we well know > Asses come, in all descriptions, my friend
 cobster11030
Joined: 7/2/2017
Msg: 6
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 6:36:49 PM
2009?? Really??
This just goes to show you shouldn't believe everything the media puts out there.
Keep talking cameltoe, I mean chameleon, you are doing great!!
 from site to sight
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 7
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 6:39:31 PM
The easiest solution is to remove the anthem from the games. What is the purpose of having an anthem sung in the first place, when it's just a game being played? The anthem has nothing to do with athletes playing a game. Maybe in the Olympics, the anthem might mean something, but when two American teams are playing each other, what's the point?
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 8
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 6:40:11 PM
I think the reason many kneel during our anthem is to call attention to their cause. Which, as I understand is police brutality inflicted upon minorities. I also think this started because the folks kneeling thought no one was paying attention to what they were saying. Therefore, they did the kneel to call attention to police brutality targeting minorities.

It's been happening for a while now and thanks to Trump and his open yap at his Alabama pep rally it's now front and center again. Our country was built on dissent and protest and also the right to free expression regarding matters involving civil rights. It's part of what our national anthem and country is all about. Many feel we aren't living up to it's promise so.... Consequently, The Knee.

I think it's a shame that these knee taking Americans had to go this far just to get some recognition for their issues. I think it's a shame our President thinks they are SOB's and conversely thinks Nazi sympathizers are good people. I also think he could better spend his time helping out hurricane victims in Texas, Fla and Puerto Rico..

And # 7, ^^^ that's a good point.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 9
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 7:23:38 PM
Initially it was a good thought and brought attention to an issue. Taking it beyond once or twice and into another season has taken it too far to be productive.

I also find it sad that grown men and women who watch the game are that upset about men taking a knee. It is not as if they gave them the double middle finger or something like that.

I also see people who didn't like football or watch it anyway using it as a reason to discourage others from watching.

...
I don't agree with her but it was an interesting statement by Justice Ginsburg

"Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the Supreme Court justice who came under fire recently for lacerating comments about Donald J. Trump, has dropped another eyebrow-raising remark about a different figure in the news: the N.F.L. football player Colin Kaepernick and his protest surrounding the national anthem.

In an interview published on Monday by Yahoo News, Justice Ginsburg said that the San Francisco 49ers quarterback’s move to kneel and not stand during the anthem, as a protest against police brutality and racial oppression, was “dumb.” The gesture has been adapted by other professional athletes and has even spread to high school teams.

When asked by the news site’s global anchor, Katie Couric, what she thought of the protest, Justice Ginsburg said: “I think it’s really dumb of them. Would I arrest them for doing it? No. I think it’s dumb and disrespectful.”

“I would have the same answer if you asked me about flag-burning. I think it’s a terrible thing to do,” she added. “But I wouldn’t lock a person up for doing it. I would point out how ridiculous it seems to me to do such an act.”

“It’s dangerous to arrest people for conduct that doesn’t jeopardize the health or well-being of other people. It is a symbol they are engaged in,” she said."
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 10
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 7:31:00 PM
Nobody is required to do these things, they are rituals, only some people think they have a right to demand everyone must. Personally I enjoy that particular ritual, but I don't do other things. I don't fake pray, or put my hand on the Bible to swear in, etc.
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 11
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 8:15:23 PM
It's all very simple...(1)they have the right to protest....they can burn the flag if they choose. (2) Trump makes a big deal about it because he is a racist and a white supremacist. He cares nothing about the flag. (3) far more important is Trump's juvenile handling of the NK situation. He may get many of us killed yet.
 Sweet_Danimal
Joined: 10/31/2015
Msg: 12
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/25/2017 9:56:13 PM
My belief has always been that the singing/performing the national anthem before sporting events is a reminder of our freedom to have such a public gathering. Having a military flag guard or representation or jet plane fly-by is also a reminder of why we still have that freedom. Being respectful to the flag/military is the decent thing to do - but it never has been, nor should it be a requirement, so long as our civil rights still exist. If the players are required to stop and be respectful - where's the rule demanding everyone in attendance should stand and salute as well - or be fined or ticketed for not doing so?

The behavior exhibited by these players is an exercise in free speech, an exercise in using their own freedoms. Most of this crap would be a non-issue except that some of the people in the press won't give it a rest - because they get paid to stir things up - and exacerbated by a President who lives the ultimate hypocrisy of demanding respect for his office yet deals out some of the most disrespectful opinions anyone has ever heard. I deeply appreciate the freedoms we have, and the people who have served to keep those freedoms - but Trump only cares about himself, and I believe everyone has the right to show the man exactly what they think of him, good or bad.
 ThePigOfYourDreams
Joined: 6/30/2017
Msg: 13
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 12:10:44 AM
"A knee must be taken to protest violence!!" (but only when it's a low percentage of white cops killing black people)

"The NFL cares about free speech!!!" (but fines players for speaking out against referees and end zone celebrations)

I can't believe anyone with an inkling of common sense is buying into all of this sanctimonious *selective* outrage horseshit, all of which was initiated by an idiot who once donned a Fidel Castro shirt at a press conference. Are you f*cking kidding me?

Oh, and for the shitheads who voted to have this thread deleted, how ironic it would be if they were "take a knee" defenders.
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 14
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 2:37:14 AM
"Oh, and for the shitheads who voted to have this thread deleted, how ironic it would be if they were "take a knee" defenders."


Willing to bet this is true. We live in a society of....Free speech for ME but not for THEE! Lol!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 15
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 5:14:22 AM
1) one of the many things our veterans fight for, is freedom of speech. They may not agree with what you say, but they'll risk their safety for your right to say it. Otherwise why not just live in a dictatorship, then there's nothing said or done to melt the snowflakes. Its one thing to have deep political thought about an issue--which again, brings one to the principle of freedom of speech--but its another to parrot what's heard on their favorite news feed. The reason there is a dropping to the knee, its a reflection of veterans who drop to a knee at the grave of a fallen brother.

2) if people won't spend money on football, that's their right. Maybe they'll donate all that cash to Wounded Warrior or other charities for veterans as a real message of protest about the protest? Sure hope they are.

3) this really isn't about the President, but he sure made it an issue as a diversion. This isn't a matter of "people like you" and "those people". If people would rather watch NASCAR with few black drivers and a recent ban on all the Confederate Flags, that's fine. If people have no problem with a football player taking a knee to pray in the end zone, that's fine. I go to car shows that play the anthem, and its ridiculous how many people don't know to doff their hats. There's very little consistency going on. They're mad at one thing but don't notice another. Interesting that its usually people who get offended at other people getting offended by their own issues.

4) if people can't protest in the streets, or at public gatherings, where should they go to raise awareness to a problem? We just don't want to hear it, that's the real problem. We ignore the issue raised, then we complain when it boils over, then we ironically use that as "proof".

5) as far as Chump being or not being a patriotic president...the man said he doesn't support John McCain, a POW, going so far as to say HE WAS A LOSER! To listen to any who wants to be Commander In Chief, deny anyone who served (gay, transgender, whatever), or disparage anyone who was captured ESPECIALLY WHEN HE DODGED HIS OWN SERVICE, exemplifies a lack of patriotism. Any boss, of any organization, shouldn't disparage his or her workers.
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 16
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 5:53:54 AM
On my first visit to the USA, (Ray-Gun's era) you tend to notice the "cultural differences" more on a first visit, and I was struck by the almost Orwellian obsession with the flag. It was everywhere.
And five-year-olds were "pledging allegiance", every day.
It struck me as being similar to Soviet Russia, or Maoist China, the compulsory patriotism which people were "groomed" to accept.
-Except it wasn't compulsory, it was just "expected".
In those (other) dictatorial regimes, "citizens" were encouraged/expected/demanded to inform on their neighbours, friends, or family members, if they acted in ways which were perceived as being "disrespectful", and they'd be arrested, and sent to prison "camps", for hard-labour, and/or "re-education".

Now, the USA has a demagogue for president. A man who delights, and benefits from whipping-up hatred for an "other".
-"Muslims", Mexicans, "The Chinese", n korea, and although he can't say it out loud, (anymore) anyone with darker skin.
("Papa was a klu klux klan, wherever he laid his hood was his home.
And when he died.....
all he left us was a loan.......
.and a measly few hundred million" )

Trump feels these people who kneel are "sons of b1tches". Other regimes use "sons of camels" to insult the mothers of their perceived "enemies".
He feels they should be "fired".
-he gets the chance to use his "catch-phrase".
But he'd really like to see them arrested, or executed, maybe that's what he means when he says "fired"?
Burned at the stake?

Rationally, is it even possible to "disrespect" an inanimate object?
The flag is simply a symbol. An object to which has become attached, an "accepted meaning".
Yesterday, I "disrespected" a rock. No one seemed to mind.

Your current president "disrespected" the office of president, by claiming, for years, that the previous legitimate president wasn't an American, and was "secretly" a "Muslim",
He "disrespected" your country by dodging the draft, and by doing so, also refusing to salute your flag.
He "disrespected" your country when he called generals and veterans; "losers".

And you ALL "disrespect" your country, if you voted for that idiotic, orange, thatched sex-pest, who brings your country into even more disrepute, every time he opens his mouth, on "the world stage".
If you elected an idiot to be your "mouthpiece", then what does that "say about you"?

News is emerging today, that seemingly, almost everyone in trump's WH entourage, sons, daughter, daughter-in-law, Bannion..... were using private email servers to conduct govt business".
It's truly laughable to watch people attempting to defend this buffoon.
The levels of "cognitive dissonance" required to overlook his obvious deficiency as a human being, never mind as a president, are truly staggering.
Jmo
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 17
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 6:02:46 AM
Jovan?

We love our flag because....it isn't YOURS! :)
 poppata
Joined: 8/6/2017
Msg: 18
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 6:07:08 AM
^^^^Heod is a twit who rejects human nature, including tribalism...remember?
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 19
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 6:45:08 AM

Jovan?

We love our flag because....it isn't YOURS! :)

Well, then it's clear you that don't know what the meaning of the word "love" really is.
I hope that your flag "loves" you back.

-At least you get the chance to keep it, safely-folded, in a drawer, as a remembrance.
I prefer people.


I'm not going to bother trying to have any sort of a rational, meaningful, deep philosophical discussion with you,
-for exactly the same reason that I wouldn't dive head-first, into a puddle.
It's clear that you'd believe anything, which you were told to believe, absent of any form of critical analysis.

Who was it who said that; "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"?
Had he met mr trump?
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 20
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 7:02:26 AM

Oh, and for the shitheads who voted to have this thread deleted, how ironic it would be if they were "take a knee" defenders.


Willing to bet this is true. We live in a society of....Free speech for ME but not for THEE! Lol!


Talk about the "definition of irony"... and "hypocrisy"... Both of you have finally achieved the "stupid fvck" level of awareness... with those two comments...

So... you "believe" you have "a right to freedom of speech"... on a privately-owned internet forum... but those engaged in a public event... do not have that same right because... "they are disrespectful" of something you hold dear...

"free speech for me but not for thee"... Irony indeed...
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 21
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 7:32:16 AM
"Both of you have finally achieved the "stupid fvck" level of awareness... with those two comments..."

^^^^Not very nice. :(


"do not have that same right because..."


Hmmm. Don't recall saying that, Joe.

Can you quote me, please? :)
 _mungojoe_
Joined: 10/1/2014
Msg: 22
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 7:46:34 AM

"do not have that same right because..."


Hmmm. Don't recall saying that, Joe.

Can you quote me, please? :)


Did I quote you as saying that...? Or... did I quote you as saying something else...? Something "stupid fvck" posted "in agreement" with an equally "stupid fvck" statement... Hint: I repeated a portion of what I DID quote you as saying...

But thank you for confirming my assessment... of the state of your awareness... where "rights" are concerned...


^^^^Not very nice. :(

No... it's not... but it was never intended to be...

Truth is frequently "not very nice"... to the recipient of that truth...
 LGL1975
Joined: 6/7/2015
Msg: 23
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:08:24 AM
Basically they are saying police brutality only happens to black people. And that it is caused by white racism. Which is incorrect. Police brutality happens to people of all races and is caused by corruption. If people really care about police brutality then pretending it only happens to minorities and blaming white people is counterproductive.
 Kj521
Joined: 11/16/2016
Msg: 24
Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:19:39 AM
Hmmm. Interesting, Joe.

"So... you "believe" you have "a right to freedom of speech"... on a privately-owned internet forum... but those engaged in a public event... do not have that same right because... "they are disrespectful" of something you hold dear..."


So...Who is the "You" in this statement? Mr. Pig? Who "believes" this?
 cooldog65
Joined: 6/27/2011
Msg: 25
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Sitting, kneeling or hiding out in the lockeroom during our anthem
Posted: 9/26/2017 8:23:51 AM
Does anybody stand up for the national anthem when it's on your television screen?
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