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 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 1
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is apparently the hashtag being used for people who've been subject to sexual molestation.

Looks like Mr Spacey has been well and truly outed.

A few MPs are fighting back.

Dustin Hoffman apologises (but gets away with because he's 80 now and it's not going to wreck his career)

Brett Ratner - the film producer not the purveyor of crap jewellery, director of the Rush Hour and X-Men, The Last Stand, Revenant etc
 Hotbeaching
Joined: 5/21/2017
Msg: 2
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Posted: 11/1/2017 11:10:35 AM
Me too:
There was a discussion today on radio 2, I just caught a small part but there was a fair few messages from people calling it a witch hunt, one comment saying putting your hand on a woman’s knee is not a sexual assault. I was discussing with my brother and he agreed with me. If someone put their hand on my knee during a convo I would be very uncomfortable and I fail to see whe a man would do this
 Paulinenbeans
Joined: 9/17/2017
Msg: 3
Me too
Posted: 11/1/2017 11:19:11 AM
What do you mean by fighting back.
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 4
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Posted: 11/1/2017 11:40:08 AM
For once I agree with Ms May - sexual assault is a police matter.
It's far too easy to use the internet in these matters (a bit like
some used to come on here slagging off so & so because they had
a grudge - still happens sometimes) - you either have a case
to bring or you don't ...............

 Paulinenbeans
Joined: 9/17/2017
Msg: 5
Me too
Posted: 11/1/2017 11:46:59 AM
Yes it is. But all signs point to her knowing about this. There was a Tory councillor in Scotland suspended today because someone alleged that he previously assaulted her.

If she and other senior Party figures have known about this, then why were these MPs allowed to stand again?

If I reported sexual harassment to my employer they would investigate. If it's happening in the workplace it's a workplace matter as well as a police one.

I can absolutely understand why some people don't report assaults. Given the tiny number of convictions.


 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 6
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Posted: 11/1/2017 12:29:32 PM
Without wishing to get involved in a shouting match,
there's a terrible amount of finger pointing going on,
and no-one (on either side of the Pond) seems to have
been charged with anything as yet (or sued).
I have no doubt that our Glorious Leader (& others)
were well aware of this stuff going on (allegedly) - just as
it ever has - and no, that doesn't make it acceptable, but
a load of internet screech ain't gonna fix it...........

 Paulinenbeans
Joined: 9/17/2017
Msg: 7
Me too
Posted: 11/1/2017 1:16:08 PM
That's Michael fallon resigned as defence secretary.
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 8
Me too
Posted: 11/1/2017 3:06:04 PM
I think the 'fighting back' refers to Damian Green

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/01/damian-green-investigated-alleged-inappropriate-advance-female/

What Hoffman is accused of is horrible

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/01/dustin-hoffman-becomes-latest-hollywood-player-accused-sexual/

The concept of the me too movement was originated 10 years ago by a woman called Tarana Burke

http://www.elleuk.com/life-and-culture/culture/news/a39429/empowerment-through-empathy-tarana-burke-me-too/

It's up to you to read those links or not or to do some research...all that info makes my head swim.

Hands on knees? I'm always doing that, it's a sign of affection, it's a way to get your attention, to draw you nearer...I won't be doing it anymore. Being tactile comes from growing up in a large family I think...we'd have grown up hugging, kissing, hitting, shoving each other...sitting down together on the sofa meant flinging arms and legs over each...you get used to close physical contact and carry it with you to other relationships with friends and lovers. Also, you know how and when to hold back in company because people react and you behave in a way that makes them feel compfortable.

The me too movement is about "Empowerment through Empathy" according to Tarana Burke.

For me it's about having a voice and being listened to finally....all men and women guilty of sexual harrasment and worse deserve this day of reckoning...fvck them all!!!!
 Squareslice
Joined: 10/17/2016
Msg: 9
Me too
Posted: 11/1/2017 3:33:59 PM
Gies a hug. Sarey!
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 10
Me too
Posted: 11/1/2017 3:43:05 PM
My friend called over last night, we haven't seen each other in a while and he can't get over the size of my breasts, he kept going on about how enormous they are, I feel like a freak today. In fact, I'd be too terrified to hug anyone lest I smother them to death.

You'll have to do without a hug squire Square...
 Paulinenbeans
Joined: 9/17/2017
Msg: 11
Me too
Posted: 11/1/2017 7:26:50 PM
Rose McGowan got a six figure settlement after an incident with weinstein.

In the case of mps. We vote for these people. I certainly don't want my mp to be behaving like Michael fallon.

It is I imagine also tough to be working for powerful people and then go to police over them

The labour activist who was raped in 2011 was told not to involve police.

I hope this is the beginning of the end for the current govt.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 12
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Posted: 11/2/2017 5:27:18 AM
Once I've left work I don't do emails and forums, so on a slightly different timeline to everyone else.

There are a few people in the spotlight saying that the allegations are false - hence the fighting back statement I made.

Yes, people should go to the police but there was one account yesterday of a woman who was attacked by an MP in a hotel in Brussels who tried to complain and got nowhere. I can't find it now but she said the police were the only ones who tried to help but couldn't because the crime happened in another country. Other people couldn't help because MPs are self employed therefore not subject to employment tribunals, didn't come under the remit of the Speaker, nor the standards committee and so on. Another MP tried to help but between them got nowhere. She wasn't raped but she was pulled onto the hotel bed by an MP who then climbed on top of her, she pushed him off so that's as far as it went but that's not a brilliant working atmosphere.

The problem with going to the police is that it's a difficult accusation to prove, just as rape is.

I too am wary of the finger pointing and the outing on social media but once someone complains publicly then other people feel free to come forward.

Dustin Hoffman behaved despicably towards a young woman hoping to start a career in showbiz. She was 17 at the time he was famous, powerful and in his 50's. These people have a hold over your career. Or potentially so like the woman who was told to forget it if she wanted a career with the labour party.

We have a history of covering up for the rich and famous, of the police not wanting to get involved. Perhaps this will turn the tide.

As for Fallon. The first person whose name came up isn't too bothered, done and dusted as far as she is concerned. It's the other more recent allegations waiting to surface which will torpedo him.
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 13
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Posted: 11/2/2017 6:30:46 AM
Only in Hollywood

"Kevin Spacey has said he is seeking treatment after facing allegations of sexual misconduct from a string of men.
A representative for the actor said he "is taking the time necessary to seek evaluation and treatment".
They did not give any information about what kind of treatment he wants."
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 14
Me too
Posted: 11/2/2017 8:26:10 AM
There's a strange little fellow who's inserted himself into the fuss....a tory mp called Michael Fabricant, interesting surname, even more interesting mop head wig.

His name appears on the 'Tory sex pest list' ( https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNnjbXCWAAAAJw-.jpg ) as someone who behaved inappropriately with a male journalist in a taxi.

Apparently, the list/dossier was created not for the purpose of dealing with the unacceptable behaviour but to use as leverage against the guilty MPs to ensure they tow the party line. Given that its the Tory party, that doesn't surprise me, they seem to thrive on being disingenuous and cunning.

http://evolvepolitics.com/tory-mp-says-drunk-mps-not-accused-rape/
 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 15
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Posted: 11/4/2017 3:36:25 AM
Today's news.

Spacey sacked. Film still in production dumped.

"Earlier this week the actor’s publicist said Spacey is “taking the time necessary to seek evaluation and treatment”, but it is understood the publicist has since cut ties with the actor." Interesting that the people who know him well have jumped ship too.

Charlie Elphick just been suspended from the Tories and referred to the police.

Two more ministers being investigated.

The MeToo campaign has given some people the courage to step forward to make a complaint.

At this rate the Torys could become a minority government.
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 16
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Posted: 11/4/2017 12:55:16 PM
Still no charges.
I note the SNP are not immune.
Massive amounts of finger pointing
loads of noise - bit like the Westminster pedo stuff
except that this hasn't been buried - yet.

 Paulinenbeans
Joined: 9/17/2017
Msg: 17
Me too
Posted: 11/5/2017 6:38:28 AM
I wouldnt expect charges to be made at this stage. They'll only be made if the women involved inform police.

Two people from the snp are under investigation.

This will cross all political parties I'm sure.

Monica Lennon who is a Scottish labour msp has alleged she was assaulted four years ago at a social function.

People have every right to speak out and I understand fully why some people might not want to involve police.

Given the tiny percentage of reported assaults that end up in conviction
 Paulinenbeans
Joined: 9/17/2017
Msg: 18
Me too
Posted: 11/5/2017 6:52:35 AM
Tories are already a minority government

Files on one of the complaints have been passed to police. Tory mp.

There are women who have had allegations made about them as well. But it's mostly men.

Time sleaze was rooted out at every level of politics. From council to central government
 duracell_bunny_one
Joined: 1/21/2015
Msg: 19
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Posted: 11/5/2017 11:09:54 AM
And, totally by coincidence, the Beeb are splashing
The Paradise Papers, which should take take Gropegate
right off the front pages - tax avoidance by the Great & the Good
(including Maj) - yup, that'll do it.
Nothing like revving up the underclasses to bury a load of shite.

 Justanotherchap
Joined: 12/4/2013
Msg: 20
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Posted: 11/6/2017 1:49:15 AM
"As with last year's Panama Papers leak, the documents were obtained by the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung, which called in the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) to oversee the investigation. BBC Panorama and the Guardian are among the nearly 100 media groups investigating the papers."
 scareymush
Joined: 8/9/2011
Msg: 21
Me too
Posted: 11/7/2017 3:11:23 PM
Tommorrow's Daily Mirror headline reads "Beeb bosses probe 25 sex pests"

Meanwhile, a Labour MP from Wales committed suicide after being fired from his position because he'd been accused of sexual misconduct by two women....don't know the full story yet but it seems like his local branch of the labour party may not have dealt with the situation well at all.

And there are still men out there who don't seem to realise that victims who are speaking out about their experience thanks to the encouragement of the 'metoo' hashtag are talking about their behaviour too....maybe they're not being named and shamed but they still need to be contrite and amend their bad behaviour towards women...down with chauvinism.

Again Ronan Farrow produces wonderful journalism

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/harvey-weinsteins-army-of-spies

In the fall of 2016, Harvey Weinstein set out to suppress allegations that he had sexually harassed or assaulted numerous women. He began to hire private security agencies to collect information on the women and the journalists trying to expose the allegations. According to dozens of pages of documents, and seven people directly involved in the effort, the firms that Weinstein hired included Kroll, which is one of the world’s largest corporate-intelligence companies, and Black Cube, an enterprise run largely by former officers of Mossad and other Israeli intelligence agencies. Black Cube, which has branches in Tel Aviv, London, and Paris, offers its clients the skills of operatives “highly experienced and trained in Israel’s elite military and governmental intelligence units,” according to its literature.

Two private investigators from Black Cube, using false identities, met with the actress Rose McGowan, who eventually publicly accused Weinstein of rape, to extract information from her. One of the investigators pretended to be a women’s-rights advocate and secretly recorded at least four meetings with McGowan. The same operative, using a different false identity and implying that she had an allegation against Weinstein, met twice with a journalist to find out which women were talking to the press. In other cases, journalists directed by Weinstein or the private investigators interviewed women and reported back the details.

The explicit goal of the investigations, laid out in one contract with Black Cube, signed in July, was to stop the publication of the abuse allegations against Weinstein that eventually emerged in the New York Times and The New Yorker. Over the course of a year, Weinstein had the agencies “target,” or collect information on, dozens of individuals, and compile psychological profiles that sometimes focussed on their personal or sexual histories. Weinstein monitored the progress of the investigations personally. He also enlisted former employees from his film enterprises to join in the effort, collecting names and placing calls that, according to some sources who received them, felt intimidating.

In some cases, the investigative effort was run through Weinstein’s lawyers, including David Boies, a celebrated attorney who represented Al Gore in the 2000 Presidential-election dispute and argued for marriage equality before the U.S. Supreme Court. Boies personally signed the contract directing Black Cube to attempt to uncover information that would stop the publication of a Times story about Weinstein’s abuses, while his firm was also representing the Times, including in a libel case.

Boies confirmed that his firm contracted with and paid two of the agencies and that investigators from one of them sent him reports, which were then passed on to Weinstein. He said that he did not select the firms or direct the investigators’ work. He also denied that the work regarding the Times story represented a conflict of interest. Boies said that his firm’s involvement with the investigators was a mistake. “We should not have been contracting with and paying investigators that we did not select and direct,” he told me. “At the time, it seemed a reasonable accommodation for a client, but it was not thought through, and that was my mistake. It was a mistake at the time.”

Techniques like the ones used by the agencies on Weinstein’s behalf are almost always kept secret, and, because such relationships are often run through law firms, the investigations are theoretically protected by attorney-client privilege, which could prevent them from being disclosed in court. The documents and sources reveal the tools and tactics available to powerful individuals to suppress negative stories and, in some cases, forestall criminal investigations.[......]
 Nottinghamfellow
Joined: 4/5/2012
Msg: 22
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Posted: 12/28/2017 8:25:05 AM
I for one do not approve of trial by media.

i prefer the innocent until proven guilty approach to crime
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